Let's Reform The Individual Mandate In ACA

[RDD_1210]

Yeah, I know. You don't get it. But I'll try one more time. My solutions are none of your business. And yours are none of mine. I'll deal with my health issues, you deal with yours.


To put it another way, I don't accept your premise that this is a problem that "we" have to solve together. Just as my decisions regarding how to provide for all of my other personal needs aren't a matter of public policy debate.

I get it, you don't like living in a civilized society. That's the problem. I'm sure there are plenty of 3rd world nations that would love your "fuck you, I got mine" mentality. Unfortunately for you, we live in a country that cares for one another (at least some of us do) and when someone needs a helping hand, we're there to lend it. Your selfishness is not what this country is about luckily.

Good thing is, there are plenty of 3rd world countries where you can do whatever the fuck you want without pesky government getting involved that you can move to.

So we have many help programs,fact that cons out give by wide margins doesn't matter.

Charity and help is best when voluntary,taking from one to give to another,is not.

This is a turd going around and around the bowl,just waiting.

Who are you kidding? The sweat stained undershirts you donate to the red cross aren't doing shit for the people who truly need help in this country.

 

[The Rabbi]

I get it, you don't like living in a civilized society. That's the problem. I'm sure there are plenty of 3rd world nations that would love your "fuck you, I got mine" mentality. Unfortunately for you, we live in a country that cares for one another (at least some of us do) and when someone needs a helping hand, we're there to lend it. Your selfishness is not what this country is about luckily.

Good thing is, there are plenty of 3rd world countries where you can do whatever the fuck you want without pesky government getting involved that you can move to.

So we have many help programs,fact that cons out give by wide margins doesn't matter.

Charity and help is best when voluntary,taking from one to give to another,is not.

This is a turd going around and around the bowl,just waiting.

Who are you kidding? The sweat stained undershirts you donate to the red cross aren't doing shit for the people who truly need help in this country.

You're aware that there are doctors and organization donating thousands of hours to help indigent people, right? How dare you disgrace that effort by calling it "sweat stained shirts". You're a piece of shit. Like anyone had any doubt.

 

[kaz]

And the subsidies dont pay for the entire premium, leaving people who cannot afford it with a big bill for their premiums.
So do you support being able to opt out, or do you think that is just a GOP plan to undercut Obamacare?

The subsidies can pay for the whole premium for those who need it. And people can "opt out" if they truly can't afford it. That's how the law currently is. What's the problem?

Where can people opt out? The mandate is universal.

Government isn't good with giving us choices, are they Rabbi? I opted out of obamacare, and the price of my policy went up by 40%. Though that was better than opting in which tripled the price of my policy.

I contributed to my employees health care tax free through an HRA at my business. Obamacare changed the rules so that my contributions to help them with their policies are no longer tax deductible.

Obamacare, taking the "affordable" out of "healthcare"...

 

[The Rabbi]

The subsidies can pay for the whole premium for those who need it. And people can "opt out" if they truly can't afford it. That's how the law currently is. What's the problem?

Where can people opt out? The mandate is universal.

Government isn't good with giving us choices, are they Rabbi? I opted out of obamacare, and the price of my policy went up by 40%.

You can opt out of Obamacare, but not the mandate. Where can you opt out of the mandate?

 

[RDD_1210]

Before Obamacare or after? After Obamacare I can't imagine anyone's does.

Before. Go for it. Tell us which system was more expensive in the last 20 years.

I'll go for it, but can you clarify what point you're making so I can address it most effectively? I said healthcare was a disaster in socialized countries. The rich leave and get better care outside, the death rates for cancer and cardiovascular diseases are actually higher in socialized countries and people can't get access to specialists sometimes until long after they are dead. I'm not clear what point you're making exactly by focusing now on "costs" only. Can you clarify.

The point is there are other countries that have good healthcare systems, with good patient satisfaction and lower costs than our own. Yet, you refuse to acknowledge them? Why? Because every system, EVERY system in the world is more "socialist" than our system. EVERY SINGLE ONE and the fact that you wont name a country tells me that you know this on some level.

So instead of me naming which systems are rated better than ours, I'll let you tell me which system you like. Then we can discuss why. But you won't because you're a partisan hack whose only joy in life comes from complaining about commies and socialists.

 

[kaz]

Where can people opt out? The mandate is universal.

Government isn't good with giving us choices, are they Rabbi? I opted out of obamacare, and the price of my policy went up by 40%.

You can opt out of Obamacare, but not the mandate. Where can you opt out of the mandate?

I was agreeing with you, government sucks at giving us "choices."

 

[kaz]

So we have many help programs,fact that cons out give by wide margins doesn't matter.

Charity and help is best when voluntary,taking from one to give to another,is not.

This is a turd going around and around the bowl,just waiting.

Who are you kidding? The sweat stained undershirts you donate to the red cross aren't doing shit for the people who truly need help in this country.

You're aware that there are doctors and organization donating thousands of hours to help indigent people, right? How dare you disgrace that effort by calling it "sweat stained shirts". You're a piece of shit. Like anyone had any doubt.

It's so hard to get liberals to focus on what you are arguing and get them to stop debating the voices in their heads placed there by lying, self serving, liberal lawyers.

 

[The Rabbi]

Before. Go for it. Tell us which system was more expensive in the last 20 years.

I'll go for it, but can you clarify what point you're making so I can address it most effectively? I said healthcare was a disaster in socialized countries. The rich leave and get better care outside, the death rates for cancer and cardiovascular diseases are actually higher in socialized countries and people can't get access to specialists sometimes until long after they are dead. I'm not clear what point you're making exactly by focusing now on "costs" only. Can you clarify.

The point is there are other countries that have good healthcare systems, with good patient satisfaction and lower costs than our own. Yet, you refuse to acknowledge them? Why? Because every system, EVERY system in the world is more "socialist" than our system. EVERY SINGLE ONE and the fact that you wont name a country tells me that you know this on some level.

So instead of me naming which systems are rated better than ours, I'll let you tell me which system you like. Then we can discuss why. But you won't because you're a partisan hack whose only joy in life comes from complaining about commies and socialists.

You use the word "good" here like it means something. What do you mean by "good"?
Every one of those systems is beset with soaring costs and vain efforts to contain them. Go Google "health care costs Britain" Or France. Or Germany. Every one of them is in trouble.
Even then their populations are generally healthier than ours and their costs would be lower anyway.

 

[The Rabbi]

Government isn't good with giving us choices, are they Rabbi? I opted out of obamacare, and the price of my policy went up by 40%.

You can opt out of Obamacare, but not the mandate. Where can you opt out of the mandate?

I was agreeing with you, government sucks at giving us "choices."

I didnt dispute that. Government is giving the choice of enroll in health care plans you can't afford or pay a tax you can't afford.
I'm saying why wouldn't they allow people to opt out of the mandate/tax?

 

[kaz]

Before. Go for it. Tell us which system was more expensive in the last 20 years.

I'll go for it, but can you clarify what point you're making so I can address it most effectively? I said healthcare was a disaster in socialized countries. The rich leave and get better care outside, the death rates for cancer and cardiovascular diseases are actually higher in socialized countries and people can't get access to specialists sometimes until long after they are dead. I'm not clear what point you're making exactly by focusing now on "costs" only. Can you clarify.

The point is there are other countries that have good healthcare systems, with good patient satisfaction and lower costs than our own. Yet, you refuse to acknowledge them? Why? Because every system, EVERY system in the world is more "socialist" than our system. EVERY SINGLE ONE and the fact that you wont name a country tells me that you know this on some level.

So instead of me naming which systems are rated better than ours, I'll let you tell me which system you like. Then we can discuss why. But you won't because you're a partisan hack whose only joy in life comes from complaining about commies and socialists.

I keep saying I like our system the best, even though government has for decades over regulated and mandated it. And I keep saying all our peers are socialist now, so there is no comparable system. Any free medical country is third world. I am not getting the logic in your repeating when that's my view to name other countries I like regarding their system. We are the standard, and as socialists, you're on a lifelong quest to strangle the goose that laid the golden egg so we can all be poor and equal. Except our political leaders.

 

[RDD_1210]

Where can people opt out? The mandate is universal.

Government isn't good with giving us choices, are they Rabbi? I opted out of obamacare, and the price of my policy went up by 40%.

You can opt out of Obamacare, but not the mandate. Where can you opt out of the mandate?

When you show the hardship on your tax return.

 

[RDD_1210]

So we have many help programs,fact that cons out give by wide margins doesn't matter.

Charity and help is best when voluntary,taking from one to give to another,is not.

This is a turd going around and around the bowl,just waiting.

Who are you kidding? The sweat stained undershirts you donate to the red cross aren't doing shit for the people who truly need help in this country.

You're aware that there are doctors and organization donating thousands of hours to help indigent people, right? How dare you disgrace that effort by calling it "sweat stained shirts". You're a piece of shit. Like anyone had any doubt.

I didn't know chikenwing was a doctor.

 

[RDD_1210]

Who are you kidding? The sweat stained undershirts you donate to the red cross aren't doing shit for the people who truly need help in this country.

You're aware that there are doctors and organization donating thousands of hours to help indigent people, right? How dare you disgrace that effort by calling it "sweat stained shirts". You're a piece of shit. Like anyone had any doubt.

It's so hard to get liberals to focus on what you are arguing and get them to stop debating the voices in their heads placed there by lying, self serving, liberal lawyers.

It's so hard to get conservatives to answer a simple question. This thread is a prime example of it.

 

[RDD_1210]

I'll go for it, but can you clarify what point you're making so I can address it most effectively? I said healthcare was a disaster in socialized countries. The rich leave and get better care outside, the death rates for cancer and cardiovascular diseases are actually higher in socialized countries and people can't get access to specialists sometimes until long after they are dead. I'm not clear what point you're making exactly by focusing now on "costs" only. Can you clarify.

The point is there are other countries that have good healthcare systems, with good patient satisfaction and lower costs than our own. Yet, you refuse to acknowledge them? Why? Because every system, EVERY system in the world is more "socialist" than our system. EVERY SINGLE ONE and the fact that you wont name a country tells me that you know this on some level.

So instead of me naming which systems are rated better than ours, I'll let you tell me which system you like. Then we can discuss why. But you won't because you're a partisan hack whose only joy in life comes from complaining about commies and socialists.

You use the word "good" here like it means something. What do you mean by "good"?
Every one of those systems is beset with soaring costs and vain efforts to contain them. Go Google "health care costs Britain" Or France. Or Germany. Every one of them is in trouble.
Even then their populations are generally healthier than ours and their costs would be lower anyway.

And none of them hold a candle to our healthcare costs. And that's before Obamacare was ever imagined. So your whole "soaring costs" argument is moot.

 

[kaz]

You're aware that there are doctors and organization donating thousands of hours to help indigent people, right? How dare you disgrace that effort by calling it "sweat stained shirts". You're a piece of shit. Like anyone had any doubt.

It's so hard to get liberals to focus on what you are arguing and get them to stop debating the voices in their heads placed there by lying, self serving, liberal lawyers.

It's so hard to get conservatives to answer a simple question. This thread is a prime example of it.

I don't know, you need to ask one. As for libertarians, I've already answered the question multiple times and you don't like the answer. I like our system, or I did, which is why Obama wants to destroy it. I don't like socialist industrialized ones and I don't like third world ones. So when you ask me to name one I like that's not ours, you're asking me to name a chicken with teeth.

 

[RDD_1210]

I'll go for it, but can you clarify what point you're making so I can address it most effectively? I said healthcare was a disaster in socialized countries. The rich leave and get better care outside, the death rates for cancer and cardiovascular diseases are actually higher in socialized countries and people can't get access to specialists sometimes until long after they are dead. I'm not clear what point you're making exactly by focusing now on "costs" only. Can you clarify.

The point is there are other countries that have good healthcare systems, with good patient satisfaction and lower costs than our own. Yet, you refuse to acknowledge them? Why? Because every system, EVERY system in the world is more "socialist" than our system. EVERY SINGLE ONE and the fact that you wont name a country tells me that you know this on some level.

So instead of me naming which systems are rated better than ours, I'll let you tell me which system you like. Then we can discuss why. But you won't because you're a partisan hack whose only joy in life comes from complaining about commies and socialists.

I keep saying I like our system the best, even though government has for decades over regulated and mandated it. And I keep saying all our peers are socialist now, so there is no comparable system. Any free medical country is third world. I am not getting the logic in your repeating when that's my view to name other countries I like regarding their system. We are the standard, and as socialists, you're on a lifelong quest to strangle the goose that laid the golden egg so we can all be poor and equal. Except our political leaders.

And like I said, you refuse to acknowledge other systems that are rated well.....even, *gasp* better than ours. Why is that you refuse to admit that perhaps we aren't the best?

 

[The Rabbi]

The point is there are other countries that have good healthcare systems, with good patient satisfaction and lower costs than our own. Yet, you refuse to acknowledge them? Why? Because every system, EVERY system in the world is more "socialist" than our system. EVERY SINGLE ONE and the fact that you wont name a country tells me that you know this on some level.

So instead of me naming which systems are rated better than ours, I'll let you tell me which system you like. Then we can discuss why. But you won't because you're a partisan hack whose only joy in life comes from complaining about commies and socialists.

You use the word "good" here like it means something. What do you mean by "good"?
Every one of those systems is beset with soaring costs and vain efforts to contain them. Go Google "health care costs Britain" Or France. Or Germany. Every one of them is in trouble.
Even then their populations are generally healthier than ours and their costs would be lower anyway.

And none of them hold a candle to our healthcare costs. And that's before Obamacare was ever imagined. So your whole "soaring costs" argument is moot.

You understand that's a non sequitur, right?

 

[Bombur]

The German system does a better job giving the people a choice when choosing their healthcare than our system IMO.

Other countries have far more efficient systems. The US system is able to do ok because we throw so much more money at it than other countries.

 

[The Rabbi]

The point is there are other countries that have good healthcare systems, with good patient satisfaction and lower costs than our own. Yet, you refuse to acknowledge them? Why? Because every system, EVERY system in the world is more "socialist" than our system. EVERY SINGLE ONE and the fact that you wont name a country tells me that you know this on some level.

So instead of me naming which systems are rated better than ours, I'll let you tell me which system you like. Then we can discuss why. But you won't because you're a partisan hack whose only joy in life comes from complaining about commies and socialists.

I keep saying I like our system the best, even though government has for decades over regulated and mandated it. And I keep saying all our peers are socialist now, so there is no comparable system. Any free medical country is third world. I am not getting the logic in your repeating when that's my view to name other countries I like regarding their system. We are the standard, and as socialists, you're on a lifelong quest to strangle the goose that laid the golden egg so we can all be poor and equal. Except our political leaders.

And like I said, you refuse to acknowledge other systems that are rated well.....even, *gasp* better than ours. Why is that you refuse to admit that perhaps we aren't the best?

Again, what do you mean "rated better"? That is very subjective, depending on what you're measuring. But I'll bet that's too abstract for you.

 

[RDD_1210]

You use the word "good" here like it means something. What do you mean by "good"?
Every one of those systems is beset with soaring costs and vain efforts to contain them. Go Google "health care costs Britain" Or France. Or Germany. Every one of them is in trouble.
Even then their populations are generally healthier than ours and their costs would be lower anyway.

And none of them hold a candle to our healthcare costs. And that's before Obamacare was ever imagined. So your whole "soaring costs" argument is moot.

You understand that's a non sequitur, right?

LOL. You just use terms that don't apply whatsoever when you have no place else to turn. Good for you.