Let's Reform The Individual Mandate In ACA

[kaz]

Tell us your ideal healthcare model.

Free enterprise. Get government out of the regulating, dictating, subsidizing role and let free markets work.

What country has that worked in?

I like going to empirical evidence. So far, it's never been tried in an industrialized country, every one has gone socialist. And that has been a disaster. Canada has higher death rates for both cardiovascular and cancer than we do. And now that we're going socialized medicine, prices are skyrocketing for less insurance. For decades our solution to every health care issue has been to add more and more suffocating regulations to the industry, and it keeps getting worse.

Maybe we should try a different approach than the ones that keep failing.

 

[RDD_1210]

My ideal model is irrelevant, because I'm opposed to forcing it on other people via government. That's the faulty premise of the mandate; that we should imagine an ideal system and force it on everyone.

Not irrelevant. I want to hear about the system you think we should be using. Whatever it may be. Don't be shy.

I think each off is should be free to use, or create, whatever system we like. At a fundamental level you really don't "get" that, do you?

I get that you think anything with government is "bad". Trust me, I get it.

 

[kaz]

What country has that worked in?

All the ones that have tried it.

So none.

Every country that has gone social medicine, which is all industrialized countries, as failed. So, which is a worse record?

Tried Capitalism: 0 for 0

Tried Socialism: 0 for everyone.

 

[kaz]

How do you propose to pay for pre-existing conditions?

That is the reason the mandate is necessary

Because of course, Comrade, it's government's job to fine me for not wanting to pay for someone else's pre- existing condition through overpaying for my own insurance. So I can either pay for their pre-existing condition or not get insurance and pay a fine. Wow, that's not out of control government ,is it?

Yes

That is how it works. Sometimes in life you are on the giving end and sometimes you are on the receiving end

In this case, people with pre-existing conditions were being blocked from the insurance market are on the receiving end. Not a pleasant circumstance if you suffer from a serious illness.

But, as a true Libertarian, your view is fuck them, I got mine

We understand.

Fuck them, I got mine is clearly far more your view than mine. You in every way advocate taking for yourself and giving for others.

 

[RDD_1210]

Free enterprise. Get government out of the regulating, dictating, subsidizing role and let free markets work.

What country has that worked in?

I like going to empirical evidence. So far, it's never been tried in an industrialized country, every one has gone socialist. And that has been a disaster. Canada has higher death rates for both cardiovascular and cancer than we do. And now that we're going socialized medicine, prices are skyrocketing for less insurance. For decades our solution to every health care issue has been to add more and more suffocating regulations to the industry, and it keeps getting worse.

Maybe we should try a different approach than the ones that keep failing.

A disaster? Every country in the world has a disaster of a healthcare system? Is that what you're saying?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

How do you propose to pay for pre-existing conditions?

That is the reason the mandate is necessary

Because of course, Comrade, it's government's job to fine me for not wanting to pay for someone else's pre- existing condition through overpaying for my own insurance. So I can either pay for their pre-existing condition or not get insurance and pay a fine. Wow, that's not out of control government ,is it?

Yes

That is how it works. Sometimes in life you are on the giving end and sometimes you are on the receiving end

In this case, people with pre-existing conditions were being blocked from the insurance market are on the receiving end. Not a pleasant circumstance if you suffer from a serious illness.

But, as a true Libertarian, your view is fuck them, I got mine

We understand.

I would have had no problem if pre existings were mandated to be covered but instead O went ahead and destroyed everything.

 

[The Rabbi]

So what happens to someone who gets seriously ill can't afford the costs for their care? And if your solution is based upon relying on charity I know we won't be getting anywhere with this conversation.

What happens to someone who does NOT get seriously ill? They can't afford the cost of premiums.
People who can't afford the cost of care have many avenues available. People who can't afford premiums don't.
That's why we should allow them to opt out.

I've already told you that subsidies are available for those who can't afford it. You ignored that for some reason.

And if someone doesn't get seriously ill, then I'd consider that a good thing. Apparently you don't.

And the subsidies dont pay for the entire premium, leaving people who cannot afford it with a big bill for their premiums.
So do you support being able to opt out, or do you think that is just a GOP plan to undercut Obamacare?

 

[dblack]

What country has that worked in?

All of them that didn't prohibit it.

Again....none.

Let me know when you're ready to talk about solutions based in reality.

Yeah, I know. You don't get it. But I'll try one more time. My solutions are none of your business. And yours are none of mine. I'll deal with my health issues, you deal with yours.


To put it another way, I don't accept your premise that this is a problem that "we" have to solve together. Just as my decisions regarding how to provide for all of my other personal needs aren't a matter of public policy debate.

 

[kaz]

What country has that worked in?

I like going to empirical evidence. So far, it's never been tried in an industrialized country, every one has gone socialist. And that has been a disaster. Canada has higher death rates for both cardiovascular and cancer than we do. And now that we're going socialized medicine, prices are skyrocketing for less insurance. For decades our solution to every health care issue has been to add more and more suffocating regulations to the industry, and it keeps getting worse.

Maybe we should try a different approach than the ones that keep failing.

A disaster? Every country in the world has a disaster of a healthcare system? Is that what you're saying?

Reading is fundamental. What's the difference between what I said and what you did? Cue the Jeopardy music...

 

[The Rabbi]

What country has that worked in?

All of them that didn't prohibit it.

Again....none.

Let me know when you're ready to talk about solutions based in reality.

So because no one has tried it, it is not a solution based in reality?
What is not based in reality is the idea that we are going to implement a socialist scheme like Obamacare, which has been tried in the states many times and failed, and for some reason this time it will be different.

 

[RDD_1210]

All the ones that have tried it.

So none.

Every country that has gone social medicine, which is all industrialized countries, as failed. So, which is a worse record?

Tried Capitalism: 0 for 0

Tried Socialism: 0 for everyone.

LOL, I can point to plenty of countries with higher rated healthcare systems than what we have in this country. Those are all failures too?

 

[The Rabbi]

So none.

Every country that has gone social medicine, which is all industrialized countries, as failed. So, which is a worse record?

Tried Capitalism: 0 for 0

Tried Socialism: 0 for everyone.

LOL, I can point to plenty of countries with higher rated healthcare systems than what we have in this country. Those are all failures too?

Yes. The proof is they are all marked by soaring costs and vain attempts to rein those costs in. Go ahead an post a few examples.

 

[RDD_1210]

I like going to empirical evidence. So far, it's never been tried in an industrialized country, every one has gone socialist. And that has been a disaster. Canada has higher death rates for both cardiovascular and cancer than we do. And now that we're going socialized medicine, prices are skyrocketing for less insurance. For decades our solution to every health care issue has been to add more and more suffocating regulations to the industry, and it keeps getting worse.

Maybe we should try a different approach than the ones that keep failing.

A disaster? Every country in the world has a disaster of a healthcare system? Is that what you're saying?

Reading is fundamental. What's the difference between what I said and what you did? Cue the Jeopardy music...

Ok, let's make this real simple. Name one country you think has a good healthcare system. ANY country.

 

[chikenwing]

Great idea.

Obamacare doesn't suck nearly bad enough.

Let's bring in Single Payer (i.e. 100% govt-provided health insurance), and we'll soon wish we had Obamacare back!

Sounds like a plan!

For people that can't, sure. Accept republican ideas of health care saving accounts for the people that can...

give us an example of where this idea has worked in reality?

you cant because it has NEVER worked anywhere

WRONG again,thats how I paid for my surgery a year ago,and that's how we cover the deductibles on our dental A health maint account .

You should just keep your big yap shut

 

[kaz]

Because of course, Comrade, it's government's job to fine me for not wanting to pay for someone else's pre- existing condition through overpaying for my own insurance. So I can either pay for their pre-existing condition or not get insurance and pay a fine. Wow, that's not out of control government ,is it?

Yes

That is how it works. Sometimes in life you are on the giving end and sometimes you are on the receiving end

In this case, people with pre-existing conditions were being blocked from the insurance market are on the receiving end. Not a pleasant circumstance if you suffer from a serious illness.

But, as a true Libertarian, your view is fuck them, I got mine

We understand.

I would have had no problem if pre existings were mandated to be covered but instead O went ahead and destroyed everything.

It's not just pre-existing, it's the young are subsidizing the old, men are subsidizing women. Whether or not one buys into the idea of that, young are going to be less likely to buy insurance, the healthy are less likely to buy insurance, then rates skyrocket even more.

The idea that government "solves" problems has never been empirically chosen. Government has never meet a problem large, small, complex or simple that it couldn't make worse.

 

[RDD_1210]

What happens to someone who does NOT get seriously ill? They can't afford the cost of premiums.
People who can't afford the cost of care have many avenues available. People who can't afford premiums don't.
That's why we should allow them to opt out.

I've already told you that subsidies are available for those who can't afford it. You ignored that for some reason.

And if someone doesn't get seriously ill, then I'd consider that a good thing. Apparently you don't.

And the subsidies dont pay for the entire premium, leaving people who cannot afford it with a big bill for their premiums.
So do you support being able to opt out, or do you think that is just a GOP plan to undercut Obamacare?

The subsidies can pay for the whole premium for those who need it. And people can "opt out" if they truly can't afford it. That's how the law currently is. What's the problem?

 

[kaz]

So none.

Every country that has gone social medicine, which is all industrialized countries, as failed. So, which is a worse record?

Tried Capitalism: 0 for 0

Tried Socialism: 0 for everyone.

LOL, I can point to plenty of countries with higher rated healthcare systems than what we have in this country. Those are all failures too?

And the rich from those countries come here when they need serious treatment. They also don't allow pharmaceutical companies to charge for their full share for the the full cost of research so those costs hit Americans more. They have as I pointed out higher death rates from cancer and heart disease. And it's going to get worse when they can't sponge off us because we become like them.

 

[kaz]

Every country that has gone social medicine, which is all industrialized countries, as failed. So, which is a worse record?

Tried Capitalism: 0 for 0

Tried Socialism: 0 for everyone.

LOL, I can point to plenty of countries with higher rated healthcare systems than what we have in this country. Those are all failures too?

Yes. The proof is they are all marked by soaring costs and vain attempts to rein those costs in. Go ahead an post a few examples.

Exactly. They frequently can't get treatment until they are long since dead. Which is why Canadian and European rich come here for treatment. The poor just die like the good little socialists that they are.

 

[RDD_1210]

All of them that didn't prohibit it.

Again....none.

Let me know when you're ready to talk about solutions based in reality.

Yeah, I know. You don't get it. But I'll try one more time. My solutions are none of your business. And yours are none of mine. I'll deal with my health issues, you deal with yours.


To put it another way, I don't accept your premise that this is a problem that "we" have to solve together. Just as my decisions regarding how to provide for all of my other personal needs aren't a matter of public policy debate.

I get it, you don't like living in a civilized society. That's the problem. I'm sure there are plenty of 3rd world nations that would love your "fuck you, I got mine" mentality. Unfortunately for you, we live in a country that cares for one another (at least some of us do) and when someone needs a helping hand, we're there to lend it. Your selfishness is not what this country is about luckily.

Good thing is, there are plenty of 3rd world countries where you can do whatever the fuck you want without pesky government getting involved that you can move to.

 

[kaz]

A disaster? Every country in the world has a disaster of a healthcare system? Is that what you're saying?

Reading is fundamental. What's the difference between what I said and what you did? Cue the Jeopardy music...

Ok, let's make this real simple. Name one country you think has a good healthcare system. ANY country.

We do, though it's sinking with every mandate and regulation and Obamacare is warp speeding that process.