Let's Talk About This Obamacare Thing Nicely

[Votto]

Here it Goes...

This isn’t so Bad (mostly already in effect):
-Makes it easier to get insurance if you have a pre-existing condition
-No pre-existing conditions for kids under 19
-Kids can stay on insurance until age 26
-Encourages the FDA to approve more generic drugs
-Increases rebates on drugs people get through Medicare
-Encourages preventative care

This is not Good (just coming into effect):
-Individual Mandate: you must buy insurance or pay the price
-Expansion of Medicaid to 133% of poverty line
-Businesses over 50 employees MUST give full-timers insurance


Although I list a greater quantity of things in the “Isn’t so Bad” section, the three points in the “Not Good” section I think far outweigh any of the aforementioned merits.

I don’t like the idea of being forced to buy insurance, and the options they provide (based on what I’ve seen) cost at a minimum $250/month for a crappy plan or face a penalty (only $100 in yr 1, but skyrockets to $500 after that). Too, seems like a really f’ing good deal for the insurance companies (lol). How about Audi and our Gov’t draft a bill that forces every American to buy at least 1 car?

Although it can be argued that the idea of expanding Medicaid is a noble one, the fact is that we’re $17 trillion in debt. It’s not the time for this, and I’m also not a huge fan of creating more State-dependents who were at one point on the cusp of becoming self-sufficient.

I don’t like the idea that businesses w/over 50 employees will be forced to provide insurance to full-timers. A 50 person company isn’t all that huge, by comparison, and I think this is going to result in hours getting cut, people getting laid off, and (formerly profitable) companies being forced to close their doors. Is this worth shutting down profitable businesses? I don't think so.

Thoughts?

Let's try to hold off on the name-calling until at least the 3rd page of posts (if it gets there).

.

Over 2000 pages of legislation that controls every aspect of your health care. What could possibly go wrong? It's all good.

 

[JoeB131]

It's all been debated to death in this forum. Here is what we know which Obama supporters will not admit or acknowledge.

1. The majority of Americans do not like or want Obamacare. They never have. It was shoved down the American People's throat.

2. The website sucks and is barely functional. Reports indicate it functions so poorly because Obama did not want people to have access to an immediate price quote for fear of political fallout and sticker shock. Therefore, you have to go through multiple screens and input a great deal of personal information before you can get any indication what it will actually cost.

3. Most reports indicate it will benefit the very old, the very sick, and the very poor. Roughly 10% of the population. The remaining 90% of Americans will have to pick up the cost for those 10%. As a result, the majority of Americans premiums will increase a lot.

4. The points made to sell the plan (you can keep you doctor, it won't raise the deficit "one thin dime," you can keep your existing plan, it will insure all Americans...has all turned out to be lies or mostly lies. When the majority of Americans find out what they new premiums will be over the next few months things should be getting very interesting.

1. Most Americans don't like it, but not all for the same reason. I don't like it because I think we should have gone to Single Payer like every other civilized country has. Others don't like it because they can't stand the thought of a poor person getting good health care.

2. Conspiracy theories are seriously tin-foil hat territory.

3. Helllloooo- MOST health care programs are 90% of healthy people paying for the 10% who are sick at any given time. This applies to Medicare, Medicaid, Cigna, Blue Cross, the VA or anyone else. Either you are fine and paying too much, or sick and getting a great deal.

4. Just got my yearly renewal of my health plan and the change is... NOTHING. Company I work for (A multi-national corporation with 9000 employees).

Look, if ObamaCare was going to be the disaster you all claimed it was going to be, you'd have just let it happen and let Obama and teh Democrats pay the price for it.

(hint, this is EXACTLY what the Democrats let the Republicans do in Iraq. Gave them just enough rope to hang themselves.)

You guys are worried that once all the kinks are worked out, you'll never be able to get rid of it. Just like you can't get rid of Social Security or Medicare.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Here it Goes...



But here's the problem with that. No one is such a fan of self-reliance that they are going to die or let their children die on a principle. They will show up at the emergency room at ten times the clinical costs and those costs will be passed on to the rest of us.




I've worked in an Emergency Room for years. This is a myth and a lie. My ER is in the hood. The reason poor people show up at ER so often is not because they don't have insurance. Any provider must see a patient regardless of insurance status that is Federal Law. Poor people get care regardless of insurance status and they don't care if they get billed because they have nothing.


The real reason they show up in ER's is free transportation. They call 911 for a paper cut. EMS has to transport them. So they come to the ER. With or without Obamacare they will still come to the ER because they don't have transportation and they don't want to take the bus and have to pay for it.

The whole ER story told by Obamacare supporters is complete bullshit. Medicaid has exploded ER utilization...not decreased it. Wake up people. Don't believe the bullshit.

 

[g5000]

NO MORE FREELOADERS. Anyway, O-Care is newly guaranteed and affordable- despite what you've ''heard'' lol...

no more freeloaders, what do you call the people who will getting "subsidized" with TAXPAYER money?

When a Democrat is coercing someone into paying more than their fair share, they have to twist their brains into believing the coerced person deserves to be robbed. Thus franco's desperate use of the term "freeloaders" for the latest victims of Democratic robbery. To assuage his conscience for robbing others, he has to believe they deserve to have more than their fair share of their money coerced out of them.

I did volunteer work in prisons for over a decade. At one point, I made friends with a bank robber. He told me he used to get himself wired on meth before robbing a bank. In that whacked out state of mind he would be able to convince himself the money in the bank was his, and God help anyone who got between him and HIS money. By the time he entered the bank, he fully believed the money he was stealing belonged to him.

It is the same with Franco believing the "freeloaders'" money belongs to him.

 

[g5000]

If they are paying somethingfair for insurance they're not freeloaders, and they will cost the country less because they're getting preventive care. HATERS LOL...

They are NOT paying "something fair". ObamaCare depends on them paying MORE than what is fair to them. The insurance rates for the young and healthy are being increased to help pay for ObamaCare.

You are a thief desperately trying to prove the victim deserved to be robbed.

 

[g5000]

Study: Premiums for Young People to Rise in all 50 States

Health insurance premiums for young people will rise in all 50 states under Obamacare, with an average increase of 260 percent, according to a study released Thursday.

The young and healthy segment of the uninsured is considered crucial for the Affordable Care Act to succeed. Former President Bill Clinton suggested last week that Obamacare only works “if young people show up.”

The people receiving subsidies and increased Medicaid coverage are freeloading on the backs of the young and healthy.

If you actually do the math, this becomes blazingly obvious.

 

[KevinWestern]

This sort of incorrect information is what has made understanding the law so difficult.

If one refuses to buy insurance he pays a fee, with the opportunity to opt into insurance should he need it in the future. For those who refuse to pay the fee their income tax refund will be garnished. For those with no income tax refund, or no income otherwise, nothing happens.

Not following you. If I'm a person that makes income, and refuses to buy insurance on the Obamacare website (given that I have no insurance already), I will be forced to pay a fee either directly or via my income tax return.

Buy insurance or pay the price. How is that not accurate?

 

[KevinWestern]

I disagree. The individual mandate is necessary if you eliminate the ban on pre-existing conditions because otherwise, people won't buy insurance until they get sick. It's like allowing you to buy car insurance AFTER you've had the accident.

Your other two points are that it's unfair that we've expanded other program, but it was the right that INSISTED that we not have a public option or expand Medicare for all, either of which would have solved the problem nicely.

It’s a good point about pre-existing/mandatory insurance (and I’ve read that too), I suppose it would have made sense to leave that pre-existing point off the “good things” list because it's too closely tied up with the gripes that follow it.

But here's the problem with that. No one is such a fan of self-reliance that they are going to die or let their children die on a principle. They will show up at the emergency room at ten times the clinical costs and those costs will be passed on to the rest of us.

The real argument is, is health care a consumer good, the quality of which is contingent on your personal wealth, or is it a public service like police or fire fighting? I'm going with the latter on that one.

Well, some people will die on that principle, but that’s sort of getting off topic. I don’t believe hospitals will turn down seriously ill people just because they’re poor. We find a way to take care of those individuals (especially children). My main point here is that I just don’t think we have the money to do this. What happens when we run up so much debt that we default and the dollar begins to tank? I assure you the situation (with regards to health, life/death) in the United States will become much worse than it is today. We need to work with the trade-offs.

And it is arguable that health care could be classified as “public service”, however I don’t think Americans are ready (or would want) to pay the taxes to make this a reality, nor is Obamacare anything that resembles Healthcare as a “public good” in my opinion. It's more like we're being forced to buy something from a private company (almost directly) against our will.

But I must add that in a perfect world I think I would entertain the idea of Universal Healthcare. However, knowing just how corrupt our politicians are in their current state (both Democrats and Republicans), I just don’t think it’s reasonable to trust them with this daunting task at this time. It’s unfortunate, but it’s true.


.

 

[Stephanie]

NO MORE FREELOADERS. Anyway, O-Care is newly guaranteed and affordable- despite what you've ''heard'' lol...

no more freeloaders, what do you call the people who will getting "subsidized" with TAXPAYER money?

When a Democrat is coercing someone into paying more than their fair share, they have to twist their brains into believing the coerced person deserves to be robbed. Thus franco's desperate use of the term "freeloaders" for the latest victims of Democratic robbery. To assuage his conscience for robbing others, he has to believe they deserve to have more than their fair share of their money coerced out of them.

I did volunteer work in prisons for over a decade. At one point, I made friends with a bank robber. He told me he used to get himself wired on meth before robbing a bank. In that whacked out state of mind he would be able to convince himself the money in the bank was his, and God help anyone who got between him and HIS money. By the time he entered the bank, he fully believed the money he was stealing belonged to him.

It is the same with Franco believing the "freeloaders'" money belongs to him.

good post and so true
I just wonder if they lie or mislead intentionally.. that is what bothers me

 

[RDD_1210]

Complaining about the insurance mandate is more than a bit ridiculous. There is nobody outside of the wealthiest 1% in this country who can afford the cost of healthcare in todays market under any circumstance. Anyone with half a brain would and should purchase health insurance to protect themselves...just in case tragedy happens. No one is invincible, no one is immune to accidents and disease that can VERY quickly wipe the average person out.

Those who choose to not buy insurance are gambling, gambling with my money because my rates increase when they get sick/injured and don't have insurance to cover themselves. So yes, those who choose to go without insurance are freeloading.

Complaining that your freedom is taken away by having to buy insurance is like complaining that you shouldn't be required to have to breath oxygen. You're not losing anything if you were just going to do it anyway to begin with. Complain about something that is worth complaining about.

 

[Edgetho]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=W-ajt5dk__M]Hitler Learns About the Obamacare Exchanges - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Stephanie]

I was just wondering about this

do you think Frankeo gets paid by the post or the thread?

 

[Sallow]

NO MORE FREELOADERS. Anyway, O-Care is newly guaranteed and affordable- despite what you've ''heard'' lol...

no more freeloaders, what do you call the people who will getting "subsidized" with TAXPAYER money?

Senator? Congressmen?

Your pick.

 

[g5000]

The individual mandate is necessary if you eliminate the ban on pre-existing conditions because otherwise, people won't buy insurance until they get sick.

This is a bogus premise.

Many people go without insurance and buy it later when they can afford it or when they get a job that offers it. Claiming they wait until they get sick is a false assumption. Others are wealthy people who would rather pay their healthcare costs out of their pocket rather than buy insurance.

The individual mandate is necessary so that young and healthy people can be overcharged to help support the subsidies and Medicaid expansion. Democrats openly admit this.

Thus we have Democrats talking out of both sides of their mouth, pretending on the one hand the voluntarily uninsured are an aggregate financial drain ("freeloaders") based on the bogus premise of yours I quoted, but then out of the other side of their mouth they admit the voluntarily uninsured are a financial pool that is needed to be robbed to pay for other people.

This is some bizarre doublethink with respect to the mandate. I don't know why they don't fall to the floor in seieures from cognitive dissonance.

This is what happens when you twist your brain trying to justify robbing people.

 

[Stephanie]

NO MORE FREELOADERS. Anyway, O-Care is newly guaranteed and affordable- despite what you've ''heard'' lol...

no more freeloaders, what do you call the people who will getting "subsidized" with TAXPAYER money?

Senator? Congressmen?

Your pick.

yes, them too
Pelosi, Biden and quite a few others from both parties have made a career and a living sucking off taxpayers

 

[rightwinger]

I feel the 26 year old provision should be named the "failure to launch" provision. That is too old.

The individual mandate is genious IMO. Because we have had a socialist system for the last fifty years and neither Reagan or Nixon or Kennedy or Bush or Clinton were going to have hospitals quit passing on the cost to me after caring for those who could not prove they could pay for their services en masse.

Its not as much a failure to launch issue as a failure of employers to offer young employees positions with benefits

 

[Edgetho]

The individual mandate is necessary if you eliminate the ban on pre-existing conditions because otherwise, people won't buy insurance until they get sick.

This is a bogus premise.

Many people go without insurance and buy it later when they can afford it or when they get a job that offers it. Claiming they wait until they get sick is a false assumption.

The individual mandate is necessary so that young and healthy people can be overcharged to help support the subsidies and Medicaid expansion. Democrats openly admit this.

Thus we have Democrats talking out of both sides of their mouth, pretending on the one hand the voluntarily uninsured are an aggregate financial drain, but then admitting they are a financial plus that is needed to pay for other people. This is some bizarre doublethink with respect to the mandate. I don't know why they don't fall to the floor in seieures from cognitive dissonance.

This is what happens when you twist your brain trying to justify robbing people.

Wassamatta, g-man?

You get your obamacare premium statement? Not the 'gift from God' you thought it would be? Not what obama promised you?

We tried to warn you but, well..... As usual, you just wouldn't listen

 

[Edgetho]

I feel the 26 year old provision should be named the "failure to launch" provision. That is too old.

The individual mandate is genious IMO. Because we have had a socialist system for the last fifty years and neither Reagan or Nixon or Kennedy or Bush or Clinton were going to have hospitals quit passing on the cost to me after caring for those who could not prove they could pay for their services en masse.

Its not as much a failure to launch issue as a failure of employers to offer young employees positions with benefits

Who needs them? You have your Lord God obama to take of you.

How's that working out?

 

[Stephanie]

To be fair here, I think the g5000 has always been against ObamafailnoCare

 

[g5000]

The individual mandate is necessary if you eliminate the ban on pre-existing conditions because otherwise, people won't buy insurance until they get sick.

This is a bogus premise.

Many people go without insurance and buy it later when they can afford it or when they get a job that offers it. Claiming they wait until they get sick is a false assumption.

The individual mandate is necessary so that young and healthy people can be overcharged to help support the subsidies and Medicaid expansion. Democrats openly admit this.

Thus we have Democrats talking out of both sides of their mouth, pretending on the one hand the voluntarily uninsured are an aggregate financial drain, but then admitting they are a financial plus that is needed to pay for other people. This is some bizarre doublethink with respect to the mandate. I don't know why they don't fall to the floor in seieures from cognitive dissonance.

This is what happens when you twist your brain trying to justify robbing people.

Wassamatta, g-man?

You get your obamacare premium statement? Not the 'gift from God' you thought it would be? Not what obama promised you?

We tried to warn you but, well..... As usual, you just wouldn't listen

You are one stupid dipshit.

I have opposed ObamaCare since the start, idiot. Your retarded brain has been assuming all this time I am a left winger just because I don't buy the manufactured bullshit of people like yourself.

And now you are trying to construct an entirely manufactured strawman about me and ObamaCare. What a dumb fuck. How are you able to feed yourself with just two brain cells? And how have you missed the fact I am retired military, and therefore earned my Tricare coverage?