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Not to rain too much on this 500 post idle fantasy,
but does anyone here need to be reminded that the 17th will never be repealed, that senate election will never get put back the way they were?
Two simple dealbreaking reasons:
1. You have slim and none chance of getting 2/3rds of Congress to propose it.
2. Even if 1. occurred, then 38 state legislatures have to ratify it, which means that 38 state legislatures have to vote to take the People's right to vote for their senators
AND GIVE IT TO THEMSELVES!!
Show us the state politicians who want to sell that idea to the voters!!
lol
It won't be too long before the federal government becomes so tyrannical and unresponsive to the people, that the states will use their Article V powers to bypass them and call for a Constitution themselves, and ratify it without Congress's approval.
What will you Progressives do when the Citizens bypass your Big Gov and dissolve it?
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
See that part in bold text? It was an emergency measure intended for this very nightmare scenario, when the Federal Government became too large and tyrannical. The States could simply dissolve it, regardless of Big Gov's input.
Yeah right, I can see state senators and assemblyman all over the country going to their constituencies and saying,
hey, sorry, but we don't think you people are smart enough to choose your senators so we're going to take that power away from you and!
we politicians in your state capital are going to give that power to US!!!
because afterall, you should know by now how much smarter than you we politicians are.
lolol.
Talk about handing their opponents in the next election a golden issue on a silver platter.
- a new Republican party that talks like adults..... An armed man is a Citizen, a disarmed man is a slave.
There will come a time when the Citizens will restore the Republic, and the Slaves and their Masters will become irrelevant. That will happen when the Citizens call a Convention and dissolve the Federal Government.
..... An armed man is a Citizen, a disarmed man is a slave.
There will come a time when the Citizens will restore the Republic, and the Slaves and their Masters will become irrelevant. That will happen when the Citizens call a Convention and dissolve the Federal Government.
time for a new Republican party that talks like adults
- a new Republican party that talks like adults"We must stop being the stupid party. Its time for a new Republican party that talks like adults. Its time for us to articulate our plans and visions for America in real terms. We had a number of Republicans damage the brand this year with offensive and bizarre comments. Weve had enough of that.
We must stop insulting the intelligence of voters. We need to trust the smarts of the American people. We have to stop dumbing down our ideas and stop reducing everything to mindless slogans and tag lines for 30-second ads. "
- Governor Bobby Jindal
Full text: Bobby Jindal?s dynamite speech to the Republican National Committee in Charlotte | WashingtonExaminer.com
- damage the brand this year with offensive and bizarre comments
- stop insulting the intelligence of voters
- stop dumbing down our ideas
- stop reducing everything to mindless slogans and tag lines
- Weve had enough of that
Bobby Jindal didn't refer to "offensive and bizarre comments" as damaging the brand of "the "stupid party" for nothing!
An armed man is a Citizen, a disarmed man is a slave.
There will come a time when the Citizens will restore the Republic, and the Slaves and their Masters will become irrelevant. That will happen when the Citizens call a Convention and dissolve the Federal Government.
We had a natural conservative majority for many years.
The breakdown began with the inroads crafted by liberals.
The process of possible correction now would naturally run counter to the "instincts" of lolberal statists chumps like Carby.
An armed man is a Citizen, a disarmed man is a slave.
There will come a time when the Citizens will restore the Republic, and the Slaves and their Masters will become irrelevant. That will happen when the Citizens call a Convention and dissolve the Federal Government.
What I wouldn't give to see that happen in my life time. I know the liberal parasites can't comprehend not having their Uncle Sam gravy train to mooch off of, but our federal government has become such an epic disaster.
$17 trillion in debt, oppressive as hell, nose in every single sector of human existence. When you think of the millions of Americans who literally gave their life, you realize just how tragic it is that we let it get away from us like we did.
Carby has no capacity to engage in this discussion.
He quotes TJ to "inform" us that we CAN alter our Constitution.
We kind of already know that, though. In fact, we have already done it a couple of dozen plus times.
The whole point of this thread and Levin's book is to discuss doing it some more.
The reason we need to do so is that we have gone very far adrift from the original intent of crafting a government that is BOUND by certain constraints.
No wonder a far left wing fubar like Carby objects.
That's some comical irony coming from you, considering that it is fair to rank you as one of the biggest cheerleaders around here for the election of REPUBLICAN Scott Brown to the SENATE.
It's not true. Most of the stuff you spew tends to be untruthful.
Nonetheless, I was indeed happy that Scott Brown got elected. Too bad he turned out to be so unfaithful to principles.
Doesn't change anything. The FACT remains, you as a flaming far left wing lolberal are opposed to the Constitutional constraints on the power of the Federal Gubmint.
You are what emblematic of what is wrong with the thinking of modern American liberalism.
Indeed. a Pure Democracy IS MOB Rule and ultimately denies true Liberty to many. The Founders denied Democracy for a reason...and that was to give ALL a voice...even those in the minority, and the unpopular view as not to be run roughshod over.You "believe" ? I think its quite obvious that is fact! Everything the Republicans do is motivated by winning at any cost to democracy. Heck - a lot of them don't even think we should have a democracy. Republicans believe - and are correct - that if they limit the power of the American voter, they will be better positioned.
Poop, we DON'T have a democracy, nor are we supposed to - in the sense of 100% mob rule. I realize that, because you're an ignorant vagina on legs, you have been duped into believing that democracy, aka mob rule, is a GOOD thing, but it's not.
The one thing you're right about - which is a major improvement over your usual scores, I'll grant you - is that Republicans DO wish to limit and hinder your ideal of democracy, aka mob rule. On the other hand, any thinking person would want to limit ANYTHING the likes of you thought was good, just as a rule of thumb.
It's called Rule of LAW, which the left could care less about except when it gives them more power...and thus steps closer to that which IS...mob rule. (MOB being the Political class...the citizen ultimately loses...tyranny...here we are).
Oh the irony.
Do you realize that the same crowd here that is decrying direct elections of Senators as Mob Rule!!!!!!!!!
and evoking of course all the negative images that phrase carries,
these are the same people that believe that if the government isn't pleasing the People, aka the Mob,
then those People have the God given right to take up arms storm the barricades drag their leaders out into the street and hang them from the nearest tree,
preferably the Tree of Liberty,
and form a new government!!! That's their sacred right, but being able to vote for a Senator,
omg that's Mob Rule!!!!!!!!!!
lol.
So imagine this scenario...your state legislators vote to take your right to vote for senators away from you, and give it to themselves,
and in response, the People declare it Tyranny!!!!!! and rise up in revolt!!!!!!!!
Whose side will you nuts be on??? Whose side will God be on???
lolol
Conservatives love to complain about direct democracy as being 'mob rule',
but you never hear them complaining about state referendum, which are in fact exercises in direct democracy,
such as California's Proposition 13, in 1978, the anti-tax prop, that was in fact a CONSERVATIVE initiative,
not to mention Proposition 8, the anti-gay prop, another CONSERVATIVE initiative...
Both were mob rule in action, if you believe the conservatives, and yet where is the conservative objection to them??
Who on the right condemns these actions in the name of preventing 'mob rule'??????
Conservatives love to complain about direct democracy as being 'mob rule',
but you never hear them complaining about state referendum, which are in fact exercises in direct democracy,
such as California's Proposition 13, in 1978, the anti-tax prop, that was in fact a CONSERVATIVE initiative,
not to mention Proposition 8, the anti-gay prop, another CONSERVATIVE initiative...
Both were mob rule in action, if you believe the conservatives, and yet where is the conservative objection to them??
Who on the right condemns these actions in the name of preventing 'mob rule'??????
You confuse yourself. States Rights versus Federal Rights? They are not the same and do not bind the entire nation for their actions.
Secondly, PURE DEMOCRACY............................
For the Nth time, we are a Republic, NOT A PURE DEMOCRACY.
It won't be too long before the federal government becomes so tyrannical and unresponsive to the people, that the states will use their Article V powers to bypass them and call for a Constitution themselves, and ratify it without Congress's approval.
What will you Progressives do when the Citizens bypass your Big Gov and dissolve it?
See that part in bold text? It was an emergency measure intended for this very nightmare scenario, when the Federal Government became too large and tyrannical. The States could simply dissolve it, regardless of Big Gov's input.
Yeah right, I can see state senators and assemblyman all over the country going to their constituencies and saying,
hey, sorry, but we don't think you people are smart enough to choose your senators so we're going to take that power away from you and!
we politicians in your state capital are going to give that power to US!!!
because afterall, you should know by now how much smarter than you we politicians are.
lolol.
Talk about handing their opponents in the next election a golden issue on a silver platter.
An armed man is a Citizen, a disarmed man is a slave.
There will come a time when the Citizens will restore the Republic, and the Slaves and their Masters will become irrelevant. That will happen when the Citizens call a Convention and dissolve the Federal Government.
Oh the irony.
Do you realize that the same crowd here that is decrying direct elections of Senators as Mob Rule!!!!!!!!!
and evoking of course all the negative images that phrase carries,
these are the same people that believe that if the government isn't pleasing the People, aka the Mob,
then those People have the God given right to take up arms storm the barricades drag their leaders out into the street and hang them from the nearest tree,
preferably the Tree of Liberty,
and form a new government!!! That's their sacred right, but being able to vote for a Senator,
omg that's Mob Rule!!!!!!!!!!
lol.
So imagine this scenario...your state legislators vote to take your right to vote for senators away from you, and give it to themselves,
and in response, the People declare it Tyranny!!!!!! and rise up in revolt!!!!!!!!
Whose side will you nuts be on??? Whose side will God be on???
lolol
Well, you are just full of laughter. Your quite the happy fellow..................
And you still can't see the forest for the trees. Many are pushing for a return to the Founders Principles of Checks and Balances. Scott doesn't matter in that issue. The Founders were some very smart people, which is exactly why they allowed the State Legislatures to select the Senators. It was exactly why they let these legislatures put a Senator on a leash.
It is a Check on Senators themselves. Again, the people ELECT THE STATE REPS. So they still have a voice in it. Senators would be hard pressed to abuse their powers when their State Legislature is watching them. aka They could be recalled. Which was what the Founders Intended.
Conservatives love to complain about direct democracy as being 'mob rule',
but you never hear them complaining about state referendum, which are in fact exercises in direct democracy,
such as California's Proposition 13, in 1978, the anti-tax prop, that was in fact a CONSERVATIVE initiative,
not to mention Proposition 8, the anti-gay prop, another CONSERVATIVE initiative...
Both were mob rule in action, if you believe the conservatives, and yet where is the conservative objection to them??
Who on the right condemns these actions in the name of preventing 'mob rule'??????
You confuse yourself. States Rights versus Federal Rights? They are not the same and do not bind the entire nation for their actions.
Secondly, PURE DEMOCRACY............................
For the Nth time, we are a Republic, NOT A PURE DEMOCRACY.
According to conservatives, states are sovereign entities, which makes them effective nation-states. Why would your principles of governance apply to the country, but not the state? Is the state mob somehow nicer than the national mob?? lol
A referendum is direct democracy. It is letting the mob directly vote on laws. Conservatives love referendums, but they hate direct democracy.
Reconcile that contradiction.
Oh the irony.
Do you realize that the same crowd here that is decrying direct elections of Senators as Mob Rule!!!!!!!!!
and evoking of course all the negative images that phrase carries,
these are the same people that believe that if the government isn't pleasing the People, aka the Mob,
then those People have the God given right to take up arms storm the barricades drag their leaders out into the street and hang them from the nearest tree,
preferably the Tree of Liberty,
and form a new government!!! That's their sacred right, but being able to vote for a Senator,
omg that's Mob Rule!!!!!!!!!!
lol.
So imagine this scenario...your state legislators vote to take your right to vote for senators away from you, and give it to themselves,
and in response, the People declare it Tyranny!!!!!! and rise up in revolt!!!!!!!!
Whose side will you nuts be on??? Whose side will God be on???
lolol
Well, you are just full of laughter. Your quite the happy fellow..................
And you still can't see the forest for the trees. Many are pushing for a return to the Founders Principles of Checks and Balances. Scott doesn't matter in that issue. The Founders were some very smart people, which is exactly why they allowed the State Legislatures to select the Senators. It was exactly why they let these legislatures put a Senator on a leash.
It is a Check on Senators themselves. Again, the people ELECT THE STATE REPS. So they still have a voice in it. Senators would be hard pressed to abuse their powers when their State Legislature is watching them. aka They could be recalled. Which was what the Founders Intended.
What? There are no worthwhile 'checks and balances' in the appointment of Senators.
The 'check and balance' in Massachusetts that occurred with the election of REPUBLICAN Scott Brown was that the People were able to make their voice heard over what would have been a slam dunk Democratic appointment by the 70 or 80% Democratic legislature in MA.
You have it all backwards.
The key element to an Amendment is choosing the battles to fight were most Americans agree.
I believe most of the Country is sick and tired of Career Politicians. Hell whats the approval rating of Congress now..................10%
Putting up Term Limits on them when 90% of the nation thinks they are all a bunch of F.... Ups anyway....................................
This is an area that could be Amended.
prop 8 passes in Cali................A very Liberal State................Then it could be passed nation wide.....
17th Amendment would be a very tough sell. As most would listen to the Liberal Trash Media on this matter anyway. As it was started by a Liberal Trash man named Wilson. A man that also gets credit for the Federal Reserve which is a different topic.
