Liberals On Abortion

[JoeB131]

As is the case with so very many of your hate-filled posts, there is no proof of this anti-American meme.

Actually, there's plenty of proof.

Some of descendants have the same Y Chromosone as Jefferson's White descendants.
There were newspaper articles at the time that talked about the scandal.
Not to mention the fact that poor Sally was the half-sister to Jefferson's dead wife. Poor thing never stood a chance.

s there anyone....including yourself.....that you don't hate?

I five year old screams "Why do you hate me?" when corrected. An adult reviews the criticism and evaluates it.

Once again, your child-like view of the world is quaint... It makes me laugh.

 

[JoeB131]

“Third, abortion is a civil-rights issue. Dick Gregory and many other blacks view abortion as a type of genocide.

[Let's remember that that was the aim of Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, and the Progressive agenda called eugenics.]

A couple of problems with this lie.

The first is Sanger opposed legalized abortion, which in the 1920's was still a pretty dangerous proposition. They still didn't have antibiotics and the tools for dislodging a fetus were still crude.

Second- Eugenics at the time was an accepted science based on a lot of incorrect assumptions. Of course, no one wanted the mentally ill, prostitutes or alcoholics to have kids, because those kids often turned out deformed. What was wrong, of course, was that this had more to do with environmental factors than genetics.

Fourth, abortion exploits women. Many women are pressured by spouses, lovers, or parents into having abortions they do not want. Sometimes the coercion is subtle, as when a husband complains of financial problems. Sometimes it is open and crude, as when a boyfriend threatens to end the affair unless the woman has an abortion, or when parents order a minor child to have an abortion.

I've never met a woman who had an abortion who didn't instigate it.... If anything, I've met women who've had abortions over the sperm donor's objection. I think this view also kind of infantilizes women. At the end of the day, we are all responsible for our own choices.

Interestingly enough, the actual report on the Jefferson DNA test had exactly the opposite results as what was trumpeted in the media.

It was nothing of the sort. Even the Monticello Association has recognized Sally Hemming's descendents as Jefferson's.

The excuse of the Jefferson cultists were that there were a bunch of other Jefferson Males, and any one of them could have fucked Hemmings. Maybe. But she was his property, she looked like his dead wife and she was the one who went to Paris with him to take care of his kid.

This is the original sin of America.. that the great life that we white folks (and some Asian folks) enjoy was built on the backs of Native Americans and African Americans who are still waiting for their payoff.

 

[gipper]

Interesting column on this subject. The pro baby killer crowd has gotten lazy. Could it be they are about to be sent to the ash heap of history?



The Cockroaches of Abortion
by David Cole

June 04, 2019

The pro-choice mavens have gone soft. Don’t be fooled by the fact that all pro-choice propaganda for the past forty years has been hysterical (“Women will die in back alleys! We’ll be chattel slaves!”). Abortion was never in jeopardy, and the higher-ups in Pro-Choice Inc. knew it. The hysteria was for fund-raising purposes, and anti-Republican electioneering. They wanted you to think the end was nigh, but it was never even nearly nigh. Properly primed donors would write checks, scared voters would vote Dem, feminist movie stars would tweet, and they’d think it was a real battle. But it was merely a war game.

Along with Roe, pro-choicers have had another “rich daddy” looking out for them and fighting their battles: the mainstream media. For four decades, the media has served as a mouthpiece for the pro-choice position. To this day, there are still few better pieces of media criticism than the late David Shaw’s 1990 L.A. Times exposé of pro-choice bias in the media. Yes, I said the L.A. friggin’ Times, and Shaw’s lefty coworkers never forgave him for his heresy, even to the extent of boycotting the celebration when Shaw won a Pulitzer the following year for a different story.

And expect an unprecedented attempt to silence pro-lifers on social media. To be fair, there has been some banning of pro-life content on Facebook and Twitter. But nothing—nothing—like the level of censorship aimed at rightists who speak about immigration and race. Comparing social media censorship of pro-life to social media censorship of immigration and race is like comparing Steve Buscemi to the Elephant Man. “Not good-looking” vs. vomit-inducing.
The Cockroaches of Abortion - Taki's Magazine

 

[JoeB131]

Okay, again, you're making a lot of ASSumptions based on your worldview, such as "There will be as many 'unwanted' children as there are abortions now", "All of those children will be abandoned or otherwise uncared for", and "Big government is the only possible means of providing for these floods of unwanted, abandoned children I have ASSumed will exist." So no, I feel no compulsion to accept your worldview as fact, or defend and justify my positions against your ultimatum of "Either give us socialism RIGHT NOW, or we have to kill babies!"

Well, you have a point. There won't be as many unwanted kids as there are abortion. The abortions will just move underground, just like they were before 1973. Affluent women in red states will just travel to Blue states to end their pregnancies.

But we will have a LOT of unwanted kids.

Again, I point the Philippines, where they have exactly the kind of laws you guys want. They have 500,000 - 800,000 illegal abortions, along with 4000 women a year who are killed or injured having them. They also have 1.8 million abandoned children living feral lives in the slums and often being exploited in various ways.

The problem, of course, is your lack of compassion. You want to force these children in the world on people who've already admitted they can't care for them, but you don't want to pay the costs to take care of them. Nope. Let's buy weapons that we'll never use or tax cuts for rich people, but man, some little bastard wanting food stamps? That's Socialism!

 

[JoeB131]

Fifth, abortion is an escape from an obligation that is owed to another.
Doris Gordon, Coordinator of Libertarians for Life, puts it this way: "Unborn children don't cause women to become pregnant but parents cause their children to be in the womb, and as a result, they need parental care.

Fetuses aren't babies. Next.

 

[JoeB131]

You must enjoy serving in the role of chew toy for the conservative women here. I bet you dont even really realize how badly you lose to them.

Honestly, I sometimes think the Mail Order Bride from Hell is a robot... she never really answers points.

She number points someone else's work she's plagarized, then calls people names when they point out the silliness.

I'm still waiting for ANY of your anti-choice nuts to answer the simple question.

How are you going to enforce your abortion ban?

 

[JoeB131]

They think "embryo", "fetus" and in 2019 "infant" are names of unique CREATURES and not human beings.

Not at all. We think medical decisions should be made by medical professionals.

The problem is, you guys are trying to equate palliative care of dying infants into infanticide.

 

[JoeB131]

Sixth, abortion brutalizes those who perform it, undergo it, pay for it, profit from it, and allow it to happen. Too many of us look the other way because we do not want to think about abortion. A part of reality is blocked out because one does not want to see broken bodies coming home, or going to an incinerator, in those awful plastic bags. People deny their own humanity when they refuse to identify with, or even knowledge, the pain of others.

I also wouldn't enjoy a trip to the slaughterhouse, but I'm still going to enjoy that hamburger!

With some it is worse: They are making money from the misery others, from exploited women and dead children. Doctors, business and clinic directors are making a great deal of money from abortion. Jobs and high incomes depend on abortion; it?s part of the gross national product. The parallels of this with the military industrial complex should be obvious to anyone who was involved in the war movement.

Again, this is where you are a little confused, because there were just as many abortions happening before Roe as after. (The birth rate did NOT drop in 1973). The reality is, if a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, she will find a way not to be pregnant.

Even if one accepts your crazy view that a kidney bean sized fetus is the same as a grown person, the thing is, the grown person is still the one driving. Unless you are going to put pregnant women under house arrest from conception to birth, I really don't see how you all stop this.

Or you could do the sensible thing, and do what the European Social Democracies have already done. Abortion is a right, government pays for it. But they also provide comprehensive sex education, easy access to contraception, paid family and medical leave, and universal health coverage. As a result, they have half the number of abortions per capita that the US has.

But this has never been about saving "the babies", it's about putting those uppity women in their place.

 

[dblack]

To those Leftists who say (as did WJC) that abortion should be "safe, legal, and rare," a challenge:

Why should you care if it is RARE? Seriously.

If it is merely removal of unwanted tissue, then what is the benefit - why is it "better" if abortions are rare...if not that there is something morally odious about abortion.

Why do you believe that abortion should be rare?

I see the abortion issue the same way I see suicide. It's tragic. I want it to be rare. But making it illegal does more harm than good.

 

[JoeB131]

When I took American History, both Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson (not to mention many others) were greatly against slavery.

Again, did you miss the part where Jefferson had a huge plantation with lost of slaves, was raping the shit out of poor Sally Hemmings?

However, in order to build a union they had to deal with plantation owners in the
South who depended on slaves to keep their businesses competitive. The anti-slavery defenders had to concede in order to achieve including southern growers who provided cotton for northern state factories.

This is where you are a little confused. Cotton wasn't a big crop in 1776, and there were very few factories in the North. That all came later with the industrial revolution. The big crop in the South at the time was Tobacco, with sugar cane being a close second..

They caved for unity with the hope that one day, slavery would be abolished. The alternative was to let go of southern states who could furnish goods with which to repel the world's most successful army, Great Britain. They knew what they had to have to get rid of the disintrested monarchy King Chas. of Britain tended to be.

Actually, the slave states were the instigators of the revolution, because they knew at some point, Britain would outlaw slavery in the colonies just like they already had in Britain itself. There was really nothing noble about the American Revolution. It was a pure power grab by some awful people.

I have this dream where Washington and Jefferson ended up at the end of ropes, and the Dominion of North America abolished slavery in 1830. None of this manifest destiny bullshit. We'd all have universal health care by now.

Even their best guy, Benjamin Franklin couldn't persuade him to take an interest in the colonies who'd fed Britain astonishing profits since the very early years of the seventeenth century.

Actually, Charles III (or more to the point, his Parliament) was more than willing to negotiate with the Colonials in good faith.

So you are calling Attorney General Barr corrupt? OK. List his crime,

Covering up for Bush and Reagan in Iran Contra, and Iraq gate in the 1990's, what he's trying to do for Trump now.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Liberals On Abortion

Conservatives On Crack

This is the level of 'clever' the Liberals aspire to.....

....I really need more educated opposition.

Have your handlers assign you to a different site.

From which ones have you been expelled?

None, but I'm not your big worry. I usually just ignore your idiocy.

If I had a bon bon for every post by a Liberal posting in a thread he claimed to ignore.....I'd have to enroll in some sort of weight loss program....

 

[PoliticalChic]

Sixth, abortion brutalizes those who perform it, undergo it, pay for it, profit from it, and allow it to happen. Too many of us look the other way because we do not want to think about abortion. A part of reality is blocked out because one does not want to see broken bodies coming home, or going to an incinerator, in those awful plastic bags. People deny their own humanity when they refuse to identify with, or even knowledge, the pain of others.

With some it is worse: They are making money from the misery others, from exploited women and dead children. Doctors, business and clinic directors are making a great deal of money from abortion. Jobs and high incomes depend on abortion; it?s part of the gross national product. The parallels of this with the military industrial complex should be obvious to anyone who was involved in the war movement.

And the "slippery slope" argument is right: People really do go from accepting abortion to accepting euthanasia and accepting "triage" for the hunger problem and accepting "lifeboat ethics" as a general guide to human behavior. We slip down the slope back to the jungle.

To save the smallest children, save its own conscience, the Left should speak out against abortion.” From The Progressive magazine. Abortion: The Left has betrayed the sanctity of life




That’s my kind of Liberal.

Woo. Much remains unchanged about the abortion issue since Meehan penned that article 4 decades ago but one thing is glaringly different ... what was once a core liberal value - the need for society to protect the defenseless - has all but disappeared in the left's headlong plunge into ideological cognitive dissonance.

"The basic instinct of the Left is to aid those who cannot aid themselves -- and that instinct is absolutely sound. It is what keeps the human proposition going." - Mary Meehan, 1980

Unless and until we liberate (see what I did there?) the school system we will continue to spiral into the abyss.

 

[PoliticalChic]

As is the case with so very many of your hate-filled posts, there is no proof of this anti-American meme.

Actually, there's plenty of proof.

Some of descendants have the same Y Chromosone as Jefferson's White descendants.
There were newspaper articles at the time that talked about the scandal.
Not to mention the fact that poor Sally was the half-sister to Jefferson's dead wife. Poor thing never stood a chance.

s there anyone....including yourself.....that you don't hate?

I five year old screams "Why do you hate me?" when corrected. An adult reviews the criticism and evaluates it.

Once again, your child-like view of the world is quaint... It makes me laugh.

You came to the right place for education.....now, take notes, dunce.


In the late 1990s, a retire pathologist working at the University of Virgina Hospital, Dr. Eugene Foster, had a conversation with


"Winifred Bennett, an amateur historian whose casual suggestion at the dinner table 10 years ago that DNA testing might establish whether Thomas Jefferson fathered children by his slave Sally Hemings helped rewrite history, unsettle families and raise enduring questions about sex, race and the American past, died on Oct. 7 at her home in Arlington, Va. She was 71." Winifred Bennett, 71, Is Dead; Proposed Jefferson DNA Tests


The result was the DNA Project, testing the descendants of the Carr family (Jefferson's nephews, both of whom were alleged to be Sally's lovers),

...and the Woodson family (descendants of the baby supposedly fathered by Jefferson in Paris.

And five male-line descendants of Jefferson's uncle, Field Jefferson.



According to Dr. Foster the results can be summarized as follows:

1. There was no match between the DNA of Jefferson and the Woodson descendants. This means that Sally's Paris baby was not fathered by any Jefferson.


2. No match was found between the DNA of the Carrs (Jefferson's nephews) and any of Hemings descendants. So, Peter and Samuel Carr were exonerated as father of Sally's last child, Eston Hemings.


3. But! Y-chromosome haplotypes* of the descendants of Field Jefferson (the uncle), and Eston Hemings, (Sally's last child) did match. Therefore, Field....not Thomas Jefferson....was the father of Eston.

Wm. Hyland, Jr., "In Defense of Thomas Jefferson," p. 18

*A haplotype is a group of genes within an organism that was inherited together from a single parent.



Now, consider this when you ascribe super human accuracy and/or objectivity to science-

Nature mag headline:

"Jefferson Fathered Slave's Last Child" http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v396/n6706/abs/396027a0.html

The headline was incorrect....for whatever reason.


It should have read:

"A Male of the Jefferson Family Fathered Slave's Last Child."


There is a lesson to be learned here, and it is one that involves politics, rather than science: haters of America attack the Founders as a proxy, and continue to lie no matter how many times they are corrected.

Raise your paw.

 

[PoliticalChic]

“Third, abortion is a civil-rights issue. Dick Gregory and many other blacks view abortion as a type of genocide.

[Let's remember that that was the aim of Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, and the Progressive agenda called eugenics.]

A couple of problems with this lie.

The first is Sanger opposed legalized abortion, which in the 1920's was still a pretty dangerous proposition. They still didn't have antibiotics and the tools for dislodging a fetus were still crude.

Second- Eugenics at the time was an accepted science based on a lot of incorrect assumptions. Of course, no one wanted the mentally ill, prostitutes or alcoholics to have kids, because those kids often turned out deformed. What was wrong, of course, was that this had more to do with environmental factors than genetics.

Fourth, abortion exploits women. Many women are pressured by spouses, lovers, or parents into having abortions they do not want. Sometimes the coercion is subtle, as when a husband complains of financial problems. Sometimes it is open and crude, as when a boyfriend threatens to end the affair unless the woman has an abortion, or when parents order a minor child to have an abortion.

I've never met a woman who had an abortion who didn't instigate it.... If anything, I've met women who've had abortions over the sperm donor's objection. I think this view also kind of infantilizes women. At the end of the day, we are all responsible for our own choices.

Interestingly enough, the actual report on the Jefferson DNA test had exactly the opposite results as what was trumpeted in the media.

It was nothing of the sort. Even the Monticello Association has recognized Sally Hemming's descendents as Jefferson's.

The excuse of the Jefferson cultists were that there were a bunch of other Jefferson Males, and any one of them could have fucked Hemmings. Maybe. But she was his property, she looked like his dead wife and she was the one who went to Paris with him to take care of his kid.

This is the original sin of America.. that the great life that we white folks (and some Asian folks) enjoy was built on the backs of Native Americans and African Americans who are still waiting for their payoff.

"Eugenics at the time was an accepted science based on a lot of incorrect assumptions. Of course, no one wanted the mentally ill, prostitutes or alcoholics to have kids, because those kids often turned out deformed. What was wrong, of course, was that this had more to do with environmental factors than genetics."



And now, for truth and perspective:

1. Eugenics was the agenda of the Progressives, the Democrats.


“Hitler also appealed to the racially exclusionary provisions of U.S. immigration laws, specifically the 1924 Immigration Act that had been pushed by American progressives as a model of enlightened eugenic legislation. “There is today one state,” Hitler noted, “in which at least weak beginning toward a better conception are noticeable. Of course it is not our German Republic but the American union. By refusing immigration on principle to elements in poor health, by simply excluding certain races from naturalization, it professes in slow beginnings a view which is peculiar to the Volkish state concept.” Dinesh D’Souza: What Hitler Learned from the Democrats

How about Franklin Roosevelt's attitude toward other races....?
"This attitude dovetails with what is known about FDR's views regarding immigrants in general and Asian immigrants in particular.... He recommended that future immigration should be limited to those who had "blood of the right sort." FDR's troubling view of Jews

Sieg Heil, Franklin????



2. Know what else the Nazis learned from the Progressives/Democrats?

“…history of laws against miscegenation—interracial marriage or procreation—in the United States.

Under the influence of Darwinism, racial science and an associated eugenics movement emerged in the late nineteenth century, grew with the Progressive movement, peaked in the 1920s, and disappeared during World War II. (Its enthusiastic embrace by Hitler did not help it…” The Race Against Race

“The Germanic inhabitant of the American continent, who has remained racially pure and unmixed, rose to be master of the continent; he will remain the master as long as he does not fall a victim to defilement of the blood.”
Adolph Hitler
Untitled Document


“At Nuremberg, the Nazis sought to preserve Nordic racial purity by outlawing racial intermarriage with Jews in much the same manner that Democratic anti-miscegenation laws outlawed racial intermarriage with blacks.”
Dinesh D’Souza: What Hitler Learned from the Democrats



3. Guess were Adolph got the idea for sterilization of ‘undesirables’???


“…Hitler learned from progressive sterilization laws that had been enacted in America through the influence of activists like Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood. “I have studied with great interest the laws of several American states concerning prevention of reproduction by people whose progeny would in all probability be of no value or be injurious to the racial stock.”

Hitler’s views—which closely parallel Sanger’s—provided the basis for the Nazi sterilization laws of 1933 which began by targeting “imbeciles” and the mentally retarded, and later expanded to cover Jews, gypsies, and other social undesirables.” Dinesh D’Souza: What Hitler Learned from the Democrats




Hitler wrote to the president of the American Eugenics Society to ask for a copy of his “The Case for Sterilization.”
(Margaret Sanger and Sterilization)

German race science stood on American progressive’s shoulders.


4. The Nazi Nuremberg Laws were taken nearly wholly from the Jim Crow Laws of the Democrat controlled South.

In “Hitler's American Model: The United States and the Making of Nazi Race Law ,” by James Whitman, he shows how the Nazis took the Democrats’ Jim Crow Laws, simply changed the word ‘black’ and inserted the word ‘Jew.’


“Let’s remember that every segregation law in the South was passed by a Democratic legislature, signed by a Democratic governor, and enforced by Democratic officials. The Nuremberg team carefully studied these laws that were mainly aimed at blacks and used them to formulate their own racist legislation mainly aimed at Jews.” Dinesh D’Souza: What Hitler Learned from the Democrats


From the LATimes:

“At a crucial 1934 planning meeting for the Nuremberg system, the Minister of Justice presented a memorandum on American law. According to a transcript, he led a detailed discussion of miscegenation statutes from all over the United States. Moreover it is clear that the most radical Nazis were the most eager advocates of American practices. Roland Freisler, who would become president of the Nazi People's Court, declared that American jurisprudence "would suit us perfectly."
When the Nazis wrote the Nuremberg laws, they looked to racist American statutes




And today we have the Democrat Party instituting Nazi policies for the unborn.


And you're right there with 'em.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Fifth, abortion is an escape from an obligation that is owed to another.
Doris Gordon, Coordinator of Libertarians for Life, puts it this way: "Unborn children don't cause women to become pregnant but parents cause their children to be in the womb, and as a result, they need parental care.

Fetuses aren't babies. Next.

A distinction without a difference.

Simply a semantic argument for those with blood on their hands.

 

[PoliticalChic]

You must enjoy serving in the role of chew toy for the conservative women here. I bet you dont even really realize how badly you lose to them.

Honestly, I sometimes think the Mail Order Bride from Hell is a robot... she never really answers points.

She number points someone else's work she's plagarized, then calls people names when they point out the silliness.

I'm still waiting for ANY of your anti-choice nuts to answer the simple question.

How are you going to enforce your abortion ban?

It doesn’t require a great deal of insight to recognize that, when one’s life hasn’t turned out as well as one might have wished, you produce the sorts of posts that you do.
So sad.

 

[JoeB131]

There is a lesson to be learned here, and it is one that involves politics, rather than science: haters of America attack the Founders as a proxy, and continue to lie no matter how many times they are corrected.

Look,I realize you need your child-like myth.

SO we have DNA evidence that someone at the time in Jefferson's family was fucking Sally Hemmings.

Do you think Tommy let his nephews fuck his favorite slave for fun. That would actually be WORSE than him fucking her himself.

That said, we don't need to play "Pick the Jefferson". There were reports AT THE TIME that Jefferson kept Hemmings as a mistress.

I give you, a political cartoon from 1804 published in a Federalist newspaper.

Less cut and pasting, more critical thinking would do you some good. Not much, mind you, but some.

 

[PoliticalChic]

There is a lesson to be learned here, and it is one that involves politics, rather than science: haters of America attack the Founders as a proxy, and continue to lie no matter how many times they are corrected.

Look,I realize you need your child-like myth.

SO we have DNA evidence that someone at the time in Jefferson's family was fucking Sally Hemmings.

Do you think Tommy let his nephews fuck his favorite slave for fun. That would actually be WORSE than him fucking her himself.

That said, we don't need to play "Pick the Jefferson". There were reports AT THE TIME that Jefferson kept Hemmings as a mistress.

I give you, a political cartoon from 1804 published in a Federalist newspaper.

View attachment 265268

Less cut and pasting, more critical thinking would do you some good. Not much, mind you, but some.

Exactly what I said here:

...haters of America attack the Founders as a proxy, and continue to lie no matter how many times they are corrected.

 

[JoeB131]

It doesn’t require a great deal of insight to recognize that, when one’s life hasn’t turned out as well as one might have wished, you produce the sorts of posts that you do.
So sad.

No one's life turns out the way they wished. That's why they call it life. I suspect my life would have been different if I hadn't joined the Army or if I didn't accept this job, or if I had made the relationship with the crazy girl work (who is now stalking me on facebook, 30 years later.)

Here's the thing. I used to be VERY right wing. I used to make far better anti-choice arguments than you do.

Then I realized that at the end of the day, the Conservative Movement is about keeping working people down by playing them off against each other. Abortion is a great example. Republicans have appointed 10 of the 14 vacancies that have popped up since Roe. Yet half of these guys have consistently voted to maintain Roe. Why do you think this is, if Roe was a flawed decision?

Because Roe is more useful as a rallying point to get dumb Christians angry.

I simply refuse to be played anymore.

If you want less abortions, there's a way to get there. But this is never been about the abortions.

 

[JoeB131]

Exactly what I said here:

...haters of America attack the Founders as a proxy, and continue to lie no matter how many times they are corrected.

Well, when you give me ACTUAL EVIDENCE, then you can correct. What you've given me is an alternative theory. Not really any proof of anything.