Lockdown Fans: What Is Your Endgame Plan?

[IM2]

People who want the lockdowns to continue spend a lot of time shouting slogans and congratulating themselves on how they're "the only ones who care about saving lives", but I have yet to hear any of them tell us what their actual plan is for an endgame, or how they envision the future going forward if we were to cave in to their demands.

So I'd really like to know: if you could convince all the governors to continue the lockdowns, what do you think that looks like? How long do you want it to last, and/or what is your metric for ending it? And then what happens? What's your plan going forward from there? Do you have one?

A good place to start is when there are no new cases.

You couldn't figure that out all by yourself? Wow!

That will never happen

Not with our president.

Not with any president

Looks like South Korea, Singapore and other countries are flattening out that curve and reducing their numbers of active cases. Why can't Trump?

Let me know when the combined population numbers of those countries comes close to our actual population number....

There are no excuses for what has happened here. We are supposed to have the best medical facilities and equipment. Our situation was created by poor presidential leadership.

 

[bripat9643]

I’m advocating that we listen to the experts.

what do we consider to be experts?

virologists? epidemiologists ? regular doctors?

we could pick any one of ^^^^, and ring up their C-19 Utubes ,only to find them fighting among themselves

~S~

They are the experts and we need to end this time of thinking we know more than experts just because we stayed at a holiday inn express.

What a servile bootlicker. You meekly follow the orders of your masters and decline to use your own brain.

Pathetic and revolting.

Following the advice of medical and health professionals is prudent. You don't do what your doctor tells you to do so you won't be seen as a "bootlicker"? Yeah, dumb is so much better....

Hey, hun. We have an election in a few months. Elect Biden and you can reinstitute the lockdown permanently. Donald J. Trump is ruling this country now, but that could change.

There will be no permanent lockdown if Biden is president. But what trump is talking about will make things worse.

How long of lockdown do you think Biden wants to have?

Don't care. It's not about what politicians want, it's about what's recommended safe for the American people by health professionals.

It's what's recommended by a bunch of leftwing deep state government bureaucrats.

I love the way you brain dead TDS morons mindlessly obey whatever the government tells you. Stalin and Hitler loved morons like you.

 

[bripat9643]

People who want the lockdowns to continue spend a lot of time shouting slogans and congratulating themselves on how they're "the only ones who care about saving lives", but I have yet to hear any of them tell us what their actual plan is for an endgame, or how they envision the future going forward if we were to cave in to their demands.

So I'd really like to know: if you could convince all the governors to continue the lockdowns, what do you think that looks like? How long do you want it to last, and/or what is your metric for ending it? And then what happens? What's your plan going forward from there? Do you have one?

A good place to start is when there are no new cases.

You couldn't figure that out all by yourself? Wow!

That will never happen

Not with our president.

Not with any president

Looks like South Korea, Singapore and other countries are flattening out that curve and reducing their numbers of active cases. Why can't Trump?

Let me know when the combined population numbers of those countries comes close to our actual population number....

There are no excuses for what has happened here. We are supposed to have the best medical facilities and equipment. Our situation was created by poor presidential leadership.

Obama created it? Yeah, we know.

 

[Polishprince]

I’m advocating that we listen to the experts.

what do we consider to be experts?

virologists? epidemiologists ? regular doctors?

we could pick any one of ^^^^, and ring up their C-19 Utubes ,only to find them fighting among themselves

~S~

They are the experts and we need to end this time of thinking we know more than experts just because we stayed at a holiday inn express.

What a servile bootlicker. You meekly follow the orders of your masters and decline to use your own brain.

Pathetic and revolting.

Following the advice of medical and health professionals is prudent. You don't do what your doctor tells you to do so you won't be seen as a "bootlicker"? Yeah, dumb is so much better....

Hey, hun. We have an election in a few months. Elect Biden and you can reinstitute the lockdown permanently. Donald J. Trump is ruling this country now, but that could change.

There will be no permanent lockdown if Biden is president. But what trump is talking about will make things worse.

How long of lockdown do you think Biden wants to have?

I don't know or care. What I do know is if you get sick, you're locked down in a hospital and if you die you're locked down in a casket.

Actually, if you get sick with Covid, you probably won't know it and if you do, you'll probably just be sick at home at week or two at most. Most people don't end up in the hospital, much less die from this.

 

[bripat9643]

No one is a fan of the lockdowns. Some people just love their mothers, fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers and are not eager to sacrifice them to President Trump's reelection campaign.

250 million people world wide are going to be starving if we don’t get our food supply flowing like it was before the lockdown. How long do you expect to keep grandparents away from their grandkids? This is no where near as simple as you claim it to be.

7.8 billion people world wide are looking at a pandemic right now. We might want to end that first.

And only around 46.8 million of the most unhealthy people are looking at death from covid, vs the 3x that amount, 250 million, infants to elderly, are looking at starving to death. 68 million in this country alone are looking at crippling unemployment.

And that's just our country. Anyone who thinks the US economy can collapse without taking every other country with it is high as balls and hallucinating.

Anybody who thinks the economy can be fully productive when people are scared to go to work because they could get sick or die is high as balls and hallucinating.

That is silly.
When only 70k out of 330 million have died, that only 0.021%.
That means only 2 out of every 10,000 people have died.
No one would be scared about going to work if they were not constantly be lied to and facing hysterical propaganda.

And the culprit is obvious.
When a vaccine is available, think about the profits from selling 330 million anxious customers, a vaccine at $100 a shot?

It's not the number that have died that concerns people, it's number that will die. One does not have to be a scientist or a visionary to see where we're going. The average number of covid 19 deaths per day in the US averaged over the last 2 weeks has been 1650/day. If that death rate continues without increasing due to opening up the country, the death toll will rise to 240,000 by the middle of August and exceed 450,000 by the end of the year. And that's if we're successful in opening the country so the death rate does not increase.

But there are two questions that need to be addressed in that.

One, are the lockdowns actually saving people from dying, or are they just delaying it a little? I mean, we've been locked down to varying degrees for a while now, and cases and deaths keep coming up. And whatever the leftists might like to believe, they aren't concentrated in the areas with less-strict lockdowns. If the lockdowns are delaying people getting it and dying from it, that works IF a vaccine or cure is going to come along soon. Otherwise, the end result is going to be the same.

Two, what about the deaths caused by the lockdowns themselves? Anyone who pretends that reopen vs lockdown is a binary choice between deaths vs no deaths is drunk.

I agree. Lock downs or partial openings of economy only delay new cases and deaths until such time as we have a vaccine to prevent covid19, and/or antivirals to treat it. With over 50 different organization developing vaccines and dozens of drug companies working on antivirals, we are almost certain to have a few next year. Once we do, we will begin saving a lot of lives and building confidence in the safety of both consumers, and workers. Then and only then will we see our lives return to normal and long term economic growth.

IMHO, if we completely open up the country, we certainly would have increases in number cases and deaths and consumers would be very reluctant consumers. People would go to the groceries stores because they feel they need to and yes they would dine out occasionally, go to sporting events, and other activities but they would be reluctance to do so fueled by daily reports of rising number deaths and cases. In the end it will consumers, not goverment or business that decide whether the country opens and stays open.

I don't know any way of determining how many deaths occur do to lock-downs. My gut feel is they are a lot less than 75,000 every two months.

Y’all still don’t get it, this is 3 times as infectious as the flu. Apparently an even more infectious strain is starting to take over. The whole 6ft of social distance is nothing more than a show. It’s makes us feel safe as long as where six feet away from each other at the grocery store. A. it’s bullshit as far as there’s no magical barrier that this virus can’t travel past 6 ft in the air. It can’t travel far as fuck depending on things like vapor pressure and ventilation. On top of that it hangs in the air, so you might be walking behind someone with 6ft distance, but in a few seconds you’re going to be right in their previous “airspace”. B. What no one is talking about is indirect transmission meaning you pick it up from touching something that a carrier touched, which is the most likely path of transmission for everyone. We’re all touching the same pin pads and card readers at the grocery store. This is where masks help because it’s stops you from touching your face, but they are in no way 100% effective, not even close.

In other words there is no stopping the spread of this virus. Only slightly slowing it. By the time a vaccine is ready it will be too late. We will have reached herd immunity. The only goal of the shutdown was to make sure our healthcare system doesn’t get overwhelmed. IT WAS NOT TO BUY TIME FOR A VACCINE. The place where this is raging probably the most in the world is NYC. Their hospitals are busy yes, but not overwhelmed. They also live crammed on top of each other, take an elevator that’s been touched 100 times per day, go to the subway that’s been touched a thousand time per day, and then ride on a tube that has thousands of people on it per day. Maybe NY should stay shut down a little longer. But for at least 95% of the rest of the country, there is no logical reason for people under 65, in relatively good health to stay locked down. Our hospitals have almost double the amount of ICU beds, and specialized equipment than most countries in Europe. We also have twice as many specialized medical staff like MDs, RN, and RT’s than Europe does, who many of their doctors are just general practitioners. Like our system or not, it’s damn good at taking care of very sick people compared to Europe. This isn’t going to overwhelm the system. We should encourage the young to go out and catch this as quickly as possible.

These idiots believe we didn't notice that they moved the goal posts. The original premise for the shutdown has evaporated, so they found a new one. It's obvious they just want the shutdown, no matter what its actual utility is. The "don't let grandma die" meme is just a talking point.

 

[sakinago]

I’m advocating that we listen to the experts.

what do we consider to be experts?

virologists? epidemiologists ? regular doctors?

we could pick any one of ^^^^, and ring up their C-19 Utubes ,only to find them fighting among themselves

~S~

Being human, experts never agree on everything but in regard to the coronavirus, leaders in fields of virology, epidemiology, and medical research, nearly all agree the novel coronavirus is spread primarily through the air between humans. Plus both scientists and anyone with common sense agrees that separating people prevents the spread of the virus. The major disagreements occur when experts start making recommendations that have consequences outside of their field, such as epidemiologists recommend that we keep lock down orders in place which has grave economic consequences.

No it’s not primarily spread through the air. That’s one vector it can spread. The fact that it can simply means it’s far more contagious than most diseases. Unless you’re talking about someone who doesn’t cover their mouth when they sneeze which we’re all pretty good at. It’s primary transmission is going to be through what’s called indirect transmission. Meaning you touching something that a carrier touched. Someone covers their mouth to yawn, rubs their face, etc, then they hold on to a handrail. Then another person comes along, touches that hand rail, then a half hour later uses that same hand to remove the lid of their bottled water and takes a sip.

I’m guessing in reality 10% of us have probably already had this and just didn’t know about it. That’s how mild the symptoms are for at least 70% of the population, if not more. They tested an entire meat packing plant, can’t remember where, but almost 400 employees came out positive, and none of them showed any symptoms. The people getting tested are only really people with symptoms and the people they live with. And understandably so, since no one wants to go anywhere where the sick people are probably going to be. The covid maps are dumb. It’s always 2 weeks behind of whose actually infected, and it’s only the small amount of people who’ve actually been tested.

 

[IM2]

I’m advocating that we listen to the experts.

what do we consider to be experts?

virologists? epidemiologists ? regular doctors?

we could pick any one of ^^^^, and ring up their C-19 Utubes ,only to find them fighting among themselves

~S~

They are the experts and we need to end this time of thinking we know more than experts just because we stayed at a holiday inn express.

What a servile bootlicker. You meekly follow the orders of your masters and decline to use your own brain.

Pathetic and revolting.

Following the advice of medical and health professionals is prudent. You don't do what your doctor tells you to do so you won't be seen as a "bootlicker"? Yeah, dumb is so much better....

Hey, hun. We have an election in a few months. Elect Biden and you can reinstitute the lockdown permanently. Donald J. Trump is ruling this country now, but that could change.

There will be no permanent lockdown if Biden is president. But what trump is talking about will make things worse.

How long of lockdown do you think Biden wants to have?

I don't know or care. What I do know is if you get sick, you're locked down in a hospital and if you die you're locked down in a casket.

What if you lose your job and have no income for 6 months, you lose your house, you file for bankruptcy, you have no credit, no money and live on the street with the rest of the COVID homeless?

What if you lose your life? Or you go back to work and get the virus? It's time to stop listening to trump. Provisions have been and will continue to be made by congress to help people in these tough times. You don't have an economy just because you tell people to go back to work. You need customers and if people don't feel safe, you don't have anything but people standing around about to get laid off.

 

[bripat9643]

I’m advocating that we listen to the experts.

what do we consider to be experts?

virologists? epidemiologists ? regular doctors?

we could pick any one of ^^^^, and ring up their C-19 Utubes ,only to find them fighting among themselves

~S~

They are the experts and we need to end this time of thinking we know more than experts just because we stayed at a holiday inn express.

What a servile bootlicker. You meekly follow the orders of your masters and decline to use your own brain.

Pathetic and revolting.

Following the advice of medical and health professionals is prudent. You don't do what your doctor tells you to do so you won't be seen as a "bootlicker"? Yeah, dumb is so much better....

Hey, hun. We have an election in a few months. Elect Biden and you can reinstitute the lockdown permanently. Donald J. Trump is ruling this country now, but that could change.

There will be no permanent lockdown if Biden is president. But what trump is talking about will make things worse.

How long of lockdown do you think Biden wants to have?

I don't know or care. What I do know is if you get sick, you're locked down in a hospital and if you die you're locked down in a casket.

What if you lose your job and have no income for 6 months, you lose your house, you file for bankruptcy, you have no credit, no money and live on the street with the rest of the COVID homeless?

What if you lose your life? Or you go back to work and get the virus? It's time to stop listening to trump. Provisions have been and will continue to be made by congress to help people in these tough times. You don't have an economy just because you tell people to go back to work. You need customers and if people don't feel safe, you don't have anything but people standing around about to get laid off.

The chances of me dying are about 0.00001%. You can lose your life crossing the street. Every time you get in your car there's a chance that you can lose your life.

Only morons believe the government can reduce the chances of dying to zero.

Congress is going to bankrupt this country if this shutdown doesn't end in a few weeks.

Let's try ending the shutdown and see what happens. If people don't go back to work, then you've got the result you want, so what are you worried about?

 

[IM2]

No one is a fan of the lockdowns. Some people just love their mothers, fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers and are not eager to sacrifice them to President Trump's reelection campaign.

250 million people world wide are going to be starving if we don’t get our food supply flowing like it was before the lockdown. How long do you expect to keep grandparents away from their grandkids? This is no where near as simple as you claim it to be.

7.8 billion people world wide are looking at a pandemic right now. We might want to end that first.

And only around 46.8 million of the most unhealthy people are looking at death from covid, vs the 3x that amount, 250 million, infants to elderly, are looking at starving to death. 68 million in this country alone are looking at crippling unemployment.

And that's just our country. Anyone who thinks the US economy can collapse without taking every other country with it is high as balls and hallucinating.

Anybody who thinks the economy can be fully productive when people are scared to go to work because they could get sick or die is high as balls and hallucinating.

That is silly.
When only 70k out of 330 million have died, that only 0.021%.
That means only 2 out of every 10,000 people have died.
No one would be scared about going to work if they were not constantly be lied to and facing hysterical propaganda.

And the culprit is obvious.
When a vaccine is available, think about the profits from selling 330 million anxious customers, a vaccine at $100 a shot?

It's not the number that have died that concerns people, it's number that will die. One does not have to be a scientist or a visionary to see where we're going. The average number of covid 19 deaths per day in the US averaged over the last 2 weeks has been 1650/day. If that death rate continues without increasing due to opening up the country, the death toll will rise to 240,000 by the middle of August and exceed 450,000 by the end of the year. And that's if we're successful in opening the country so the death rate does not increase.

But there are two questions that need to be addressed in that.

One, are the lockdowns actually saving people from dying, or are they just delaying it a little? I mean, we've been locked down to varying degrees for a while now, and cases and deaths keep coming up. And whatever the leftists might like to believe, they aren't concentrated in the areas with less-strict lockdowns. If the lockdowns are delaying people getting it and dying from it, that works IF a vaccine or cure is going to come along soon. Otherwise, the end result is going to be the same.

Two, what about the deaths caused by the lockdowns themselves? Anyone who pretends that reopen vs lockdown is a binary choice between deaths vs no deaths is drunk.

I agree. Lock downs or partial openings of economy only delay new cases and deaths until such time as we have a vaccine to prevent covid19, and/or antivirals to treat it. With over 50 different organization developing vaccines and dozens of drug companies working on antivirals, we are almost certain to have a few next year. Once we do, we will begin saving a lot of lives and building confidence in the safety of both consumers, and workers. Then and only then will we see our lives return to normal and long term economic growth.

IMHO, if we completely open up the country, we certainly would have increases in number cases and deaths and consumers would be very reluctant consumers. People would go to the groceries stores because they feel they need to and yes they would dine out occasionally, go to sporting events, and other activities but they would be reluctance to do so fueled by daily reports of rising number deaths and cases. In the end it will consumers, not goverment or business that decide whether the country opens and stays open.

I don't know any way of determining how many deaths occur do to lock-downs. My gut feel is they are a lot less than 75,000 every two months.

Y’all still don’t get it, this is 3 times as infectious as the flu. Apparently an even more infectious strain is starting to take over. The whole 6ft of social distance is nothing more than a show. It’s makes us feel safe as long as where six feet away from each other at the grocery store. A. it’s bullshit as far as there’s no magical barrier that this virus can’t travel past 6 ft in the air. It can’t travel far as fuck depending on things like vapor pressure and ventilation. On top of that it hangs in the air, so you might be walking behind someone with 6ft distance, but in a few seconds you’re going to be right in their previous “airspace”. B. What no one is talking about is indirect transmission meaning you pick it up from touching something that a carrier touched, which is the most likely path of transmission for everyone. We’re all touching the same pin pads and card readers at the grocery store. This is where masks help because it’s stops you from touching your face, but they are in no way 100% effective, not even close.

In other words there is no stopping the spread of this virus. Only slightly slowing it. By the time a vaccine is ready it will be too late. We will have reached herd immunity. The only goal of the shutdown was to make sure our healthcare system doesn’t get overwhelmed. IT WAS NOT TO BUY TIME FOR A VACCINE. The place where this is raging probably the most in the world is NYC. Their hospitals are busy yes, but not overwhelmed. They also live crammed on top of each other, take an elevator that’s been touched 100 times per day, go to the subway that’s been touched a thousand time per day, and then ride on a tube that has thousands of people on it per day. Maybe NY should stay shut down a little longer. But for at least 95% of the rest of the country, there is no logical reason for people under 65, in relatively good health to stay locked down. Our hospitals have almost double the amount of ICU beds, and specialized equipment than most countries in Europe. We also have twice as many specialized medical staff like MDs, RN, and RT’s than Europe does, who many of their doctors are just general practitioners. Like our system or not, it’s damn good at taking care of very sick people compared to Europe. This isn’t going to overwhelm the system. We should encourage the young to go out and catch this as quickly as possible.

These idiots believe we didn't notice that they moved the goal posts. The original premise for the shutdown has evaporated, so they found a new one. It's obvious they just want the shutdown, no matter what its actual utility is. The "don't let grandma die" meme is just a talking point.

The goalposts never moved. Idiots like you think that because cases are leveling off but not reducing in some places that we have stopped the virus when we haven't.

 

[bripat9643]

No one is a fan of the lockdowns. Some people just love their mothers, fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers and are not eager to sacrifice them to President Trump's reelection campaign.

250 million people world wide are going to be starving if we don’t get our food supply flowing like it was before the lockdown. How long do you expect to keep grandparents away from their grandkids? This is no where near as simple as you claim it to be.

7.8 billion people world wide are looking at a pandemic right now. We might want to end that first.

And only around 46.8 million of the most unhealthy people are looking at death from covid, vs the 3x that amount, 250 million, infants to elderly, are looking at starving to death. 68 million in this country alone are looking at crippling unemployment.

And that's just our country. Anyone who thinks the US economy can collapse without taking every other country with it is high as balls and hallucinating.

Anybody who thinks the economy can be fully productive when people are scared to go to work because they could get sick or die is high as balls and hallucinating.

That is silly.
When only 70k out of 330 million have died, that only 0.021%.
That means only 2 out of every 10,000 people have died.
No one would be scared about going to work if they were not constantly be lied to and facing hysterical propaganda.

And the culprit is obvious.
When a vaccine is available, think about the profits from selling 330 million anxious customers, a vaccine at $100 a shot?

It's not the number that have died that concerns people, it's number that will die. One does not have to be a scientist or a visionary to see where we're going. The average number of covid 19 deaths per day in the US averaged over the last 2 weeks has been 1650/day. If that death rate continues without increasing due to opening up the country, the death toll will rise to 240,000 by the middle of August and exceed 450,000 by the end of the year. And that's if we're successful in opening the country so the death rate does not increase.

But there are two questions that need to be addressed in that.

One, are the lockdowns actually saving people from dying, or are they just delaying it a little? I mean, we've been locked down to varying degrees for a while now, and cases and deaths keep coming up. And whatever the leftists might like to believe, they aren't concentrated in the areas with less-strict lockdowns. If the lockdowns are delaying people getting it and dying from it, that works IF a vaccine or cure is going to come along soon. Otherwise, the end result is going to be the same.

Two, what about the deaths caused by the lockdowns themselves? Anyone who pretends that reopen vs lockdown is a binary choice between deaths vs no deaths is drunk.

I agree. Lock downs or partial openings of economy only delay new cases and deaths until such time as we have a vaccine to prevent covid19, and/or antivirals to treat it. With over 50 different organization developing vaccines and dozens of drug companies working on antivirals, we are almost certain to have a few next year. Once we do, we will begin saving a lot of lives and building confidence in the safety of both consumers, and workers. Then and only then will we see our lives return to normal and long term economic growth.

IMHO, if we completely open up the country, we certainly would have increases in number cases and deaths and consumers would be very reluctant consumers. People would go to the groceries stores because they feel they need to and yes they would dine out occasionally, go to sporting events, and other activities but they would be reluctance to do so fueled by daily reports of rising number deaths and cases. In the end it will consumers, not goverment or business that decide whether the country opens and stays open.

I don't know any way of determining how many deaths occur do to lock-downs. My gut feel is they are a lot less than 75,000 every two months.

Y’all still don’t get it, this is 3 times as infectious as the flu. Apparently an even more infectious strain is starting to take over. The whole 6ft of social distance is nothing more than a show. It’s makes us feel safe as long as where six feet away from each other at the grocery store. A. it’s bullshit as far as there’s no magical barrier that this virus can’t travel past 6 ft in the air. It can’t travel far as fuck depending on things like vapor pressure and ventilation. On top of that it hangs in the air, so you might be walking behind someone with 6ft distance, but in a few seconds you’re going to be right in their previous “airspace”. B. What no one is talking about is indirect transmission meaning you pick it up from touching something that a carrier touched, which is the most likely path of transmission for everyone. We’re all touching the same pin pads and card readers at the grocery store. This is where masks help because it’s stops you from touching your face, but they are in no way 100% effective, not even close.

In other words there is no stopping the spread of this virus. Only slightly slowing it. By the time a vaccine is ready it will be too late. We will have reached herd immunity. The only goal of the shutdown was to make sure our healthcare system doesn’t get overwhelmed. IT WAS NOT TO BUY TIME FOR A VACCINE. The place where this is raging probably the most in the world is NYC. Their hospitals are busy yes, but not overwhelmed. They also live crammed on top of each other, take an elevator that’s been touched 100 times per day, go to the subway that’s been touched a thousand time per day, and then ride on a tube that has thousands of people on it per day. Maybe NY should stay shut down a little longer. But for at least 95% of the rest of the country, there is no logical reason for people under 65, in relatively good health to stay locked down. Our hospitals have almost double the amount of ICU beds, and specialized equipment than most countries in Europe. We also have twice as many specialized medical staff like MDs, RN, and RT’s than Europe does, who many of their doctors are just general practitioners. Like our system or not, it’s damn good at taking care of very sick people compared to Europe. This isn’t going to overwhelm the system. We should encourage the young to go out and catch this as quickly as possible.

These idiots believe we didn't notice that they moved the goal posts. The original premise for the shutdown has evaporated, so they found a new one. It's obvious they just want the shutdown, no matter what its actual utility is. The "don't let grandma die" meme is just a talking point.

The goalposts never moved. Idiots like you think that because cases are leveling off but not reducing in some places that we have stopped the virus when we haven't.

Yes, the goal posts certainly have moved. Who do you believe your fooling with these lies?

The goal was to "flatten the curve." It's already far more than flattened. Its on the down slope.

 

[IM2]

I’m advocating that we listen to the experts.

what do we consider to be experts?

virologists? epidemiologists ? regular doctors?

we could pick any one of ^^^^, and ring up their C-19 Utubes ,only to find them fighting among themselves

~S~

They are the experts and we need to end this time of thinking we know more than experts just because we stayed at a holiday inn express.

What a servile bootlicker. You meekly follow the orders of your masters and decline to use your own brain.

Pathetic and revolting.

Following the advice of medical and health professionals is prudent. You don't do what your doctor tells you to do so you won't be seen as a "bootlicker"? Yeah, dumb is so much better....

Hey, hun. We have an election in a few months. Elect Biden and you can reinstitute the lockdown permanently. Donald J. Trump is ruling this country now, but that could change.

There will be no permanent lockdown if Biden is president. But what trump is talking about will make things worse.

How long of lockdown do you think Biden wants to have?

I don't know or care. What I do know is if you get sick, you're locked down in a hospital and if you die you're locked down in a casket.

What if you lose your job and have no income for 6 months, you lose your house, you file for bankruptcy, you have no credit, no money and live on the street with the rest of the COVID homeless?

What if you lose your life? Or you go back to work and get the virus? It's time to stop listening to trump. Provisions have been and will continue to be made by congress to help people in these tough times. You don't have an economy just because you tell people to go back to work. You need customers and if people don't feel safe, you don't have anything but people standing around about to get laid off.

The chances of me dying are about 0.00001%. You can lose your life crossing the street. Every time you get in your car there's a chance that you can lose your life.

Only morons believe the government can reduce the chances of dying to zero.

Congress is going to bankrupt this country if this shutdown doesn't end in a few weeks.

Let's try ending the shutdown and see what happens. If people don't go back to work, then you've got the result you want, so what are you worried about?

The only person talking about reducing the death rate to zero is you. In all the examples you argue death can be prevented by following established protocols. But if you get COVID19 all you can do is hope it doesn't get worse. I won't be gambling with my life like that and every poll shows that the majority of Americans feel the same way.

trump bankrupted the country when he gave the rich permanent tax cuts. But this country will bankrupt itself if we open before we really have this under control.

 

[IM2]

No one is a fan of the lockdowns. Some people just love their mothers, fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers and are not eager to sacrifice them to President Trump's reelection campaign.

250 million people world wide are going to be starving if we don’t get our food supply flowing like it was before the lockdown. How long do you expect to keep grandparents away from their grandkids? This is no where near as simple as you claim it to be.

7.8 billion people world wide are looking at a pandemic right now. We might want to end that first.

And only around 46.8 million of the most unhealthy people are looking at death from covid, vs the 3x that amount, 250 million, infants to elderly, are looking at starving to death. 68 million in this country alone are looking at crippling unemployment.

And that's just our country. Anyone who thinks the US economy can collapse without taking every other country with it is high as balls and hallucinating.

Anybody who thinks the economy can be fully productive when people are scared to go to work because they could get sick or die is high as balls and hallucinating.

That is silly.
When only 70k out of 330 million have died, that only 0.021%.
That means only 2 out of every 10,000 people have died.
No one would be scared about going to work if they were not constantly be lied to and facing hysterical propaganda.

And the culprit is obvious.
When a vaccine is available, think about the profits from selling 330 million anxious customers, a vaccine at $100 a shot?

It's not the number that have died that concerns people, it's number that will die. One does not have to be a scientist or a visionary to see where we're going. The average number of covid 19 deaths per day in the US averaged over the last 2 weeks has been 1650/day. If that death rate continues without increasing due to opening up the country, the death toll will rise to 240,000 by the middle of August and exceed 450,000 by the end of the year. And that's if we're successful in opening the country so the death rate does not increase.

But there are two questions that need to be addressed in that.

One, are the lockdowns actually saving people from dying, or are they just delaying it a little? I mean, we've been locked down to varying degrees for a while now, and cases and deaths keep coming up. And whatever the leftists might like to believe, they aren't concentrated in the areas with less-strict lockdowns. If the lockdowns are delaying people getting it and dying from it, that works IF a vaccine or cure is going to come along soon. Otherwise, the end result is going to be the same.

Two, what about the deaths caused by the lockdowns themselves? Anyone who pretends that reopen vs lockdown is a binary choice between deaths vs no deaths is drunk.

I agree. Lock downs or partial openings of economy only delay new cases and deaths until such time as we have a vaccine to prevent covid19, and/or antivirals to treat it. With over 50 different organization developing vaccines and dozens of drug companies working on antivirals, we are almost certain to have a few next year. Once we do, we will begin saving a lot of lives and building confidence in the safety of both consumers, and workers. Then and only then will we see our lives return to normal and long term economic growth.

IMHO, if we completely open up the country, we certainly would have increases in number cases and deaths and consumers would be very reluctant consumers. People would go to the groceries stores because they feel they need to and yes they would dine out occasionally, go to sporting events, and other activities but they would be reluctance to do so fueled by daily reports of rising number deaths and cases. In the end it will consumers, not goverment or business that decide whether the country opens and stays open.

I don't know any way of determining how many deaths occur do to lock-downs. My gut feel is they are a lot less than 75,000 every two months.

Y’all still don’t get it, this is 3 times as infectious as the flu. Apparently an even more infectious strain is starting to take over. The whole 6ft of social distance is nothing more than a show. It’s makes us feel safe as long as where six feet away from each other at the grocery store. A. it’s bullshit as far as there’s no magical barrier that this virus can’t travel past 6 ft in the air. It can’t travel far as fuck depending on things like vapor pressure and ventilation. On top of that it hangs in the air, so you might be walking behind someone with 6ft distance, but in a few seconds you’re going to be right in their previous “airspace”. B. What no one is talking about is indirect transmission meaning you pick it up from touching something that a carrier touched, which is the most likely path of transmission for everyone. We’re all touching the same pin pads and card readers at the grocery store. This is where masks help because it’s stops you from touching your face, but they are in no way 100% effective, not even close.

In other words there is no stopping the spread of this virus. Only slightly slowing it. By the time a vaccine is ready it will be too late. We will have reached herd immunity. The only goal of the shutdown was to make sure our healthcare system doesn’t get overwhelmed. IT WAS NOT TO BUY TIME FOR A VACCINE. The place where this is raging probably the most in the world is NYC. Their hospitals are busy yes, but not overwhelmed. They also live crammed on top of each other, take an elevator that’s been touched 100 times per day, go to the subway that’s been touched a thousand time per day, and then ride on a tube that has thousands of people on it per day. Maybe NY should stay shut down a little longer. But for at least 95% of the rest of the country, there is no logical reason for people under 65, in relatively good health to stay locked down. Our hospitals have almost double the amount of ICU beds, and specialized equipment than most countries in Europe. We also have twice as many specialized medical staff like MDs, RN, and RT’s than Europe does, who many of their doctors are just general practitioners. Like our system or not, it’s damn good at taking care of very sick people compared to Europe. This isn’t going to overwhelm the system. We should encourage the young to go out and catch this as quickly as possible.

These idiots believe we didn't notice that they moved the goal posts. The original premise for the shutdown has evaporated, so they found a new one. It's obvious they just want the shutdown, no matter what its actual utility is. The "don't let grandma die" meme is just a talking point.

The goalposts never moved. Idiots like you think that because cases are leveling off but not reducing in some places that we have stopped the virus when we haven't.

Yes, the goal posts certainly have moved. Who do you believe your fooling with these lies?

The goal was to "flatten the curve." It's already far more than flattened. Its on the down slope.

The goal was not to flatten the curve. That was just the first phase and the curve has not been flattened nor is it on the down slope.

 

[bripat9643]

I’m advocating that we listen to the experts.

what do we consider to be experts?

virologists? epidemiologists ? regular doctors?

we could pick any one of ^^^^, and ring up their C-19 Utubes ,only to find them fighting among themselves

~S~

They are the experts and we need to end this time of thinking we know more than experts just because we stayed at a holiday inn express.

What a servile bootlicker. You meekly follow the orders of your masters and decline to use your own brain.

Pathetic and revolting.

Following the advice of medical and health professionals is prudent. You don't do what your doctor tells you to do so you won't be seen as a "bootlicker"? Yeah, dumb is so much better....

Hey, hun. We have an election in a few months. Elect Biden and you can reinstitute the lockdown permanently. Donald J. Trump is ruling this country now, but that could change.

There will be no permanent lockdown if Biden is president. But what trump is talking about will make things worse.

How long of lockdown do you think Biden wants to have?

I don't know or care. What I do know is if you get sick, you're locked down in a hospital and if you die you're locked down in a casket.

What if you lose your job and have no income for 6 months, you lose your house, you file for bankruptcy, you have no credit, no money and live on the street with the rest of the COVID homeless?

What if you lose your life? Or you go back to work and get the virus? It's time to stop listening to trump. Provisions have been and will continue to be made by congress to help people in these tough times. You don't have an economy just because you tell people to go back to work. You need customers and if people don't feel safe, you don't have anything but people standing around about to get laid off.

The chances of me dying are about 0.00001%. You can lose your life crossing the street. Every time you get in your car there's a chance that you can lose your life.

Only morons believe the government can reduce the chances of dying to zero.

Congress is going to bankrupt this country if this shutdown doesn't end in a few weeks.

Let's try ending the shutdown and see what happens. If people don't go back to work, then you've got the result you want, so what are you worried about?

The only person talking about reducing the death rate to zero is you. In all the examples you argue death can be prevented by following established protocols. But if you get COVID19 all you can do is hope it doesn't get worse. I won't be gambling with my life like that and every poll shows that the majority of Americans feel the same way.

trump bankrupted the country when he gave the rich permanent tax cuts. But this country will bankrupt itself if we open before we really have this under control.

Wrong, turd. All you TDS morons have been babbling about reducing the COVID death rate like a bunch of .

I haven't said a thing about reducing the death rate except that it's a fools errand.

 

[bripat9643]

No one is a fan of the lockdowns. Some people just love their mothers, fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers and are not eager to sacrifice them to President Trump's reelection campaign.

250 million people world wide are going to be starving if we don’t get our food supply flowing like it was before the lockdown. How long do you expect to keep grandparents away from their grandkids? This is no where near as simple as you claim it to be.

7.8 billion people world wide are looking at a pandemic right now. We might want to end that first.

And only around 46.8 million of the most unhealthy people are looking at death from covid, vs the 3x that amount, 250 million, infants to elderly, are looking at starving to death. 68 million in this country alone are looking at crippling unemployment.

And that's just our country. Anyone who thinks the US economy can collapse without taking every other country with it is high as balls and hallucinating.

Anybody who thinks the economy can be fully productive when people are scared to go to work because they could get sick or die is high as balls and hallucinating.

That is silly.
When only 70k out of 330 million have died, that only 0.021%.
That means only 2 out of every 10,000 people have died.
No one would be scared about going to work if they were not constantly be lied to and facing hysterical propaganda.

And the culprit is obvious.
When a vaccine is available, think about the profits from selling 330 million anxious customers, a vaccine at $100 a shot?

It's not the number that have died that concerns people, it's number that will die. One does not have to be a scientist or a visionary to see where we're going. The average number of covid 19 deaths per day in the US averaged over the last 2 weeks has been 1650/day. If that death rate continues without increasing due to opening up the country, the death toll will rise to 240,000 by the middle of August and exceed 450,000 by the end of the year. And that's if we're successful in opening the country so the death rate does not increase.

But there are two questions that need to be addressed in that.

One, are the lockdowns actually saving people from dying, or are they just delaying it a little? I mean, we've been locked down to varying degrees for a while now, and cases and deaths keep coming up. And whatever the leftists might like to believe, they aren't concentrated in the areas with less-strict lockdowns. If the lockdowns are delaying people getting it and dying from it, that works IF a vaccine or cure is going to come along soon. Otherwise, the end result is going to be the same.

Two, what about the deaths caused by the lockdowns themselves? Anyone who pretends that reopen vs lockdown is a binary choice between deaths vs no deaths is drunk.

I agree. Lock downs or partial openings of economy only delay new cases and deaths until such time as we have a vaccine to prevent covid19, and/or antivirals to treat it. With over 50 different organization developing vaccines and dozens of drug companies working on antivirals, we are almost certain to have a few next year. Once we do, we will begin saving a lot of lives and building confidence in the safety of both consumers, and workers. Then and only then will we see our lives return to normal and long term economic growth.

IMHO, if we completely open up the country, we certainly would have increases in number cases and deaths and consumers would be very reluctant consumers. People would go to the groceries stores because they feel they need to and yes they would dine out occasionally, go to sporting events, and other activities but they would be reluctance to do so fueled by daily reports of rising number deaths and cases. In the end it will consumers, not goverment or business that decide whether the country opens and stays open.

I don't know any way of determining how many deaths occur do to lock-downs. My gut feel is they are a lot less than 75,000 every two months.

Y’all still don’t get it, this is 3 times as infectious as the flu. Apparently an even more infectious strain is starting to take over. The whole 6ft of social distance is nothing more than a show. It’s makes us feel safe as long as where six feet away from each other at the grocery store. A. it’s bullshit as far as there’s no magical barrier that this virus can’t travel past 6 ft in the air. It can’t travel far as fuck depending on things like vapor pressure and ventilation. On top of that it hangs in the air, so you might be walking behind someone with 6ft distance, but in a few seconds you’re going to be right in their previous “airspace”. B. What no one is talking about is indirect transmission meaning you pick it up from touching something that a carrier touched, which is the most likely path of transmission for everyone. We’re all touching the same pin pads and card readers at the grocery store. This is where masks help because it’s stops you from touching your face, but they are in no way 100% effective, not even close.

In other words there is no stopping the spread of this virus. Only slightly slowing it. By the time a vaccine is ready it will be too late. We will have reached herd immunity. The only goal of the shutdown was to make sure our healthcare system doesn’t get overwhelmed. IT WAS NOT TO BUY TIME FOR A VACCINE. The place where this is raging probably the most in the world is NYC. Their hospitals are busy yes, but not overwhelmed. They also live crammed on top of each other, take an elevator that’s been touched 100 times per day, go to the subway that’s been touched a thousand time per day, and then ride on a tube that has thousands of people on it per day. Maybe NY should stay shut down a little longer. But for at least 95% of the rest of the country, there is no logical reason for people under 65, in relatively good health to stay locked down. Our hospitals have almost double the amount of ICU beds, and specialized equipment than most countries in Europe. We also have twice as many specialized medical staff like MDs, RN, and RT’s than Europe does, who many of their doctors are just general practitioners. Like our system or not, it’s damn good at taking care of very sick people compared to Europe. This isn’t going to overwhelm the system. We should encourage the young to go out and catch this as quickly as possible.

These idiots believe we didn't notice that they moved the goal posts. The original premise for the shutdown has evaporated, so they found a new one. It's obvious they just want the shutdown, no matter what its actual utility is. The "don't let grandma die" meme is just a talking point.

The goalposts never moved. Idiots like you think that because cases are leveling off but not reducing in some places that we have stopped the virus when we haven't.

Yes, the goal posts certainly have moved. Who do you believe your fooling with these lies?

The goal was to "flatten the curve." It's already far more than flattened. Its on the down slope.

The goal was not to flatten the curve. That was just the first phase and the curve has not been flattened nor is it on the down slope.

Yeah, the first phase, before they moved the goal posts. No one said anything about "phases" when they implemented the shutdown, dumbass.

Who do you think you're fooling?

 

[BlueGin]

No one is a fan of the lockdowns. Some people just love their mothers, fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers and are not eager to sacrifice them to President Trump's reelection campaign.

250 million people world wide are going to be starving if we don’t get our food supply flowing like it was before the lockdown. How long do you expect to keep grandparents away from their grandkids? This is no where near as simple as you claim it to be.

7.8 billion people world wide are looking at a pandemic right now. We might want to end that first.

And only around 46.8 million of the most unhealthy people are looking at death from covid, vs the 3x that amount, 250 million, infants to elderly, are looking at starving to death. 68 million in this country alone are looking at crippling unemployment.

And that's just our country. Anyone who thinks the US economy can collapse without taking every other country with it is high as balls and hallucinating.

Anybody who thinks the economy can be fully productive when people are scared to go to work because they could get sick or die is high as balls and hallucinating.

That is silly.
When only 70k out of 330 million have died, that only 0.021%.
That means only 2 out of every 10,000 people have died.
No one would be scared about going to work if they were not constantly be lied to and facing hysterical propaganda.

And the culprit is obvious.
When a vaccine is available, think about the profits from selling 330 million anxious customers, a vaccine at $100 a shot?

It's not the number that have died that concerns people, it's number that will die. One does not have to be a scientist or a visionary to see where we're going. The average number of covid 19 deaths per day in the US averaged over the last 2 weeks has been 1650/day. If that death rate continues without increasing due to opening up the country, the death toll will rise to 240,000 by the middle of August and exceed 450,000 by the end of the year. And that's if we're successful in opening the country so the death rate does not increase.

But there are two questions that need to be addressed in that.

One, are the lockdowns actually saving people from dying, or are they just delaying it a little? I mean, we've been locked down to varying degrees for a while now, and cases and deaths keep coming up. And whatever the leftists might like to believe, they aren't concentrated in the areas with less-strict lockdowns. If the lockdowns are delaying people getting it and dying from it, that works IF a vaccine or cure is going to come along soon. Otherwise, the end result is going to be the same.

Two, what about the deaths caused by the lockdowns themselves? Anyone who pretends that reopen vs lockdown is a binary choice between deaths vs no deaths is drunk.

I agree. Lock downs or partial openings of economy only delay new cases and deaths until such time as we have a vaccine to prevent covid19, and/or antivirals to treat it. With over 50 different organization developing vaccines and dozens of drug companies working on antivirals, we are almost certain to have a few next year. Once we do, we will begin saving a lot of lives and building confidence in the safety of both consumers, and workers. Then and only then will we see our lives return to normal and long term economic growth.

IMHO, if we completely open up the country, we certainly would have increases in number cases and deaths and consumers would be very reluctant consumers. People would go to the groceries stores because they feel they need to and yes they would dine out occasionally, go to sporting events, and other activities but they would be reluctance to do so fueled by daily reports of rising number deaths and cases. In the end it will consumers, not goverment or business that decide whether the country opens and stays open.

I don't know any way of determining how many deaths occur do to lock-downs. My gut feel is they are a lot less than 75,000 every two months.

Y’all still don’t get it, this is 3 times as infectious as the flu. Apparently an even more infectious strain is starting to take over. The whole 6ft of social distance is nothing more than a show. It’s makes us feel safe as long as where six feet away from each other at the grocery store. A. it’s bullshit as far as there’s no magical barrier that this virus can’t travel past 6 ft in the air. It can’t travel far as fuck depending on things like vapor pressure and ventilation. On top of that it hangs in the air, so you might be walking behind someone with 6ft distance, but in a few seconds you’re going to be right in their previous “airspace”. B. What no one is talking about is indirect transmission meaning you pick it up from touching something that a carrier touched, which is the most likely path of transmission for everyone. We’re all touching the same pin pads and card readers at the grocery store. This is where masks help because it’s stops you from touching your face, but they are in no way 100% effective, not even close.

In other words there is no stopping the spread of this virus. Only slightly slowing it. By the time a vaccine is ready it will be too late. We will have reached herd immunity. The only goal of the shutdown was to make sure our healthcare system doesn’t get overwhelmed. IT WAS NOT TO BUY TIME FOR A VACCINE. The place where this is raging probably the most in the world is NYC. Their hospitals are busy yes, but not overwhelmed. They also live crammed on top of each other, take an elevator that’s been touched 100 times per day, go to the subway that’s been touched a thousand time per day, and then ride on a tube that has thousands of people on it per day. Maybe NY should stay shut down a little longer. But for at least 95% of the rest of the country, there is no logical reason for people under 65, in relatively good health to stay locked down. Our hospitals have almost double the amount of ICU beds, and specialized equipment than most countries in Europe. We also have twice as many specialized medical staff like MDs, RN, and RT’s than Europe does, who many of their doctors are just general practitioners. Like our system or not, it’s damn good at taking care of very sick people compared to Europe. This isn’t going to overwhelm the system. We should encourage the young to go out and catch this as quickly as possible.

These idiots believe we didn't notice that they moved the goal posts. The original premise for the shutdown has evaporated, so they found a new one. It's obvious they just want the shutdown, no matter what its actual utility is. The "don't let grandma die" meme is just a talking point.

The goalposts never moved. Idiots like you think that because cases are leveling off but not reducing in some places that we have stopped the virus when we haven't.

Yes, the goal posts certainly have moved. Who do you believe your fooling with these lies?

The goal was to "flatten the curve." It's already far more than flattened. Its on the down slope.

The goal was not to flatten the curve. That was just the first phase and the curve has not been flattened nor is it on the down slope.

Yeah, the first phase, before they moved the goal posts. No one said anything about "phases" when they implemented the shutdown, dumbass.

Who do you think you're fooling?

Yeah and their shut down was only supposed to be 2 weeks...3 for kids to be out of school.

 

[HappyJoy]

People who want the lockdowns to continue spend a lot of time shouting slogans and congratulating themselves on how they're "the only ones who care about saving lives", but I have yet to hear any of them tell us what their actual plan is for an endgame, or how they envision the future going forward if we were to cave in to their demands.

So I'd really like to know: if you could convince all the governors to continue the lockdowns, what do you think that looks like? How long do you want it to last, and/or what is your metric for ending it? And then what happens? What's your plan going forward from there? Do you have one?

A good place to start is when there are no new cases.

You couldn't figure that out all by yourself? Wow!

That will never happen

Not with our president.

Not with any president

Looks like South Korea, Singapore and other countries are flattening out that curve and reducing their numbers of active cases. Why can't Trump?

Let me know when the combined population numbers of those countries comes close to our actual population number....

Why?

 

[Hum Dinger]

People who want the lockdowns to continue spend a lot of time shouting slogans and congratulating themselves on how they're "the only ones who care about saving lives", but I have yet to hear any of them tell us what their actual plan is for an endgame, or how they envision the future going forward if we were to cave in to their demands.

So I'd really like to know: if you could convince all the governors to continue the lockdowns, what do you think that looks like? How long do you want it to last, and/or what is your metric for ending it? And then what happens? What's your plan going forward from there? Do you have one?

Our Lockdown Plan:

Follow the advice of people who are experts on infectious diseases.

Any other stupid questions?

 

[Cecilie1200]

No one is a fan of the lockdowns. Some people just love their mothers, fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers and are not eager to sacrifice them to President Trump's reelection campaign.

250 million people world wide are going to be starving if we don’t get our food supply flowing like it was before the lockdown. How long do you expect to keep grandparents away from their grandkids? This is no where near as simple as you claim it to be.

7.8 billion people world wide are looking at a pandemic right now. We might want to end that first.

And only around 46.8 million of the most unhealthy people are looking at death from covid, vs the 3x that amount, 250 million, infants to elderly, are looking at starving to death. 68 million in this country alone are looking at crippling unemployment.

And that's just our country. Anyone who thinks the US economy can collapse without taking every other country with it is high as balls and hallucinating.

Anybody who thinks the economy can be fully productive when people are scared to go to work because they could get sick or die is high as balls and hallucinating.

That is silly.
When only 70k out of 330 million have died, that only 0.021%.
That means only 2 out of every 10,000 people have died.
No one would be scared about going to work if they were not constantly be lied to and facing hysterical propaganda.

And the culprit is obvious.
When a vaccine is available, think about the profits from selling 330 million anxious customers, a vaccine at $100 a shot?

It's not the number that have died that concerns people, it's number that will die. One does not have to be a scientist or a visionary to see where we're going. The average number of covid 19 deaths per day in the US averaged over the last 2 weeks has been 1650/day. If that death rate continues without increasing due to opening up the country, the death toll will rise to 240,000 by the middle of August and exceed 450,000 by the end of the year. And that's if we're successful in opening the country so the death rate does not increase.

But there are two questions that need to be addressed in that.

One, are the lockdowns actually saving people from dying, or are they just delaying it a little? I mean, we've been locked down to varying degrees for a while now, and cases and deaths keep coming up. And whatever the leftists might like to believe, they aren't concentrated in the areas with less-strict lockdowns. If the lockdowns are delaying people getting it and dying from it, that works IF a vaccine or cure is going to come along soon. Otherwise, the end result is going to be the same.

Two, what about the deaths caused by the lockdowns themselves? Anyone who pretends that reopen vs lockdown is a binary choice between deaths vs no deaths is drunk.

I agree. Lock downs or partial openings of economy only delay new cases and deaths until such time as we have a vaccine to prevent covid19, and/or antivirals to treat it. With over 50 different organization developing vaccines and dozens of drug companies working on antivirals, we are almost certain to have a few next year. Once we do, we will begin saving a lot of lives and building confidence in the safety of both consumers, and workers. Then and only then will we see our lives return to normal and long term economic growth.

IMHO, if we completely open up the country, we certainly would have increases in number cases and deaths and consumers would be very reluctant consumers. People would go to the groceries stores because they feel they need to and yes they would dine out occasionally, go to sporting events, and other activities but they would be reluctance to do so fueled by daily reports of rising number deaths and cases. In the end it will consumers, not goverment or business that decide whether the country opens and stays open.

I don't know any way of determining how many deaths occur do to lock-downs. My gut feel is they are a lot less than 75,000 every two months.

I would love to think there's going to be a vaccine or antiviral coming down the pike, particularly within the next year. However, I'm very concerned by reports that the coronavirus is mutating. That is what both cold and flu viruses do, and that's the reason why there are no hard-and-fast, effective treatments for either. Yes, we have flu vaccines that come out every year, but they're only for one strain based on what the scientists guess will be the dominant strain (sometimes they're wrong), and doesn't do crap against any other strains that might also be active. What happens if that's the case with Covid-19?

I don't think your gut is necessarily operating on complete information. First of all, no one outside of a few hyperbolic protesters is suggesting re-opening willy-nilly and immediately trying to go back to things exactly as they were before. I really doubt most people would be inclined to do that right out of the gate, even if they were told they could, because they're scared and because most people aren't that stupid and careless. The states that are moving to re-open are maintaining social distancing, wearing masks, sanitizing, etc.

Second of all, I don't think you've really contemplated the far-reaching effects of economic collapse if you assume that Covid-19 deaths are worse. Suicide hotlines are already reporting that their call volume has gone up 1000%. No, that's not a typo; that's "1000" with three zeros. We're already getting increased reports of domestic violence, and even deaths from domestic violence. Sociologists are advising us that we will be seeing increased incidences of alcohol and drug abuse, which didn't exactly take a genius to figure out. Hospitals are closing down, because people aren't coming in for treatment for anything but Covid-19. How many people are going to die because the medical care they needed was no longer available? Our food supply chains are breaking down, and I don't just means it takes longer to get it to the stores to stock. I mean food is rotting or being destroyed in the fields; animals are being slaughtered and composted instead of sent to the processing plant. If that trend continues, pretty soon there will be virtually no food to stock, and what there is will be really expensive. That means the poorer you are, the more likely you're going to become to starve or to be seriously malnourished, especially the children. Sure, normally in the United States, you would be able to turn to food banks and other charities, or to the government, to get assistance. But charities are dependent on donations to function; where are they going to get those donations with the economy at a virtual standstill and record tens of millions of people out of work and without income? Likewise, the government gets its money from taxes and borrowing. But what are they going to tax if no one's working? Who is going to buy our debt, knowing that we have no tax base right now? And that's leaving aside the massive amounts of new debt the government has already taken on in this crisis.

And while we're on the subject of no one wanting to buy our debt if we have no tax base, who is even going to be ABLE to buy our debt if our economy goes down? Economics is a delicately balanced, interwoven web. If we go down, everyone else is going down with us. Third-world nations already have rampant death from starvation and disease, with US charitable aid - both government and private - as the only thing keeping them going. Would you like to bet that just ONE African country dependent on our help can top your coronavirus death numbers without us? How about the countries whose economies are dependent on US-owned manufacturing, or those whose economies depend on trading with the US? They aren't third-world right now, but how long would it take for them to slide down to that level if we go broke?

I know to a lot of people, this sounds like an extreme doomsday prepper fantasy that could never really happen. I wish it sounded that way to me. But unfortunately, it is all too possible, wouldn't take too much more than what we already have, and we're already seeing the signs of the beginning.

By the way, on a side note, I'd like to thank you for actually posting seriously and thoughtfully on the questions I posed, and making it possible to have a rational discussion on this subject. Sadly, you seem to be the only one so far.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Seriously I wrote down a plan on Lockdown Fans: What Is Your Endgame Plan?

Not one of you cared... Endless bickering and not even looked at a pretty sensible draft plan...

There's a simple way to end the lockdown: end it.

So that is the ignore any scientific advise and fuck grandma...

So that's it: shout a slogan and let the world burn.

 

[Cecilie1200]

People who want the lockdowns to continue spend a lot of time shouting slogans and congratulating themselves on how they're "the only ones who care about saving lives", but I have yet to hear any of them tell us what their actual plan is for an endgame, or how they envision the future going forward if we were to cave in to their demands.

So I'd really like to know: if you could convince all the governors to continue the lockdowns, what do you think that looks like? How long do you want it to last, and/or what is your metric for ending it? And then what happens? What's your plan going forward from there? Do you have one?

This is the Irish one...

Key dates: Here's the plan for unwinding restrictions and getting life in Ireland back to normal

The plan was announced by Taoiseach Leo Varadkar this evening.

www.thejournal.ie

Based on the numbers at the time... But this is the initial plan... Still a bit loosey goosey but it is a plan...

• Phase one – 18 May
• Phase two – 8 June
• Phase three – 29 June
• Phase four – 20 July
• Phase five – 10 August

So you're not actually a fan of the lockdowns. That begs the question of whether or not you have been among those attacking anyone who suggests ending them.

I am just looking at the countries who being led by the science...

A measured release with high testing to make sure the lockdown effort wasn't in vain.

Some of the states (eg Georgia) have still 3% daily growth and one of the lowest testing in the country(cira 5000 a day)...

Just to show what science is saying in Irealnd. They have there daily growth down to 0.6% and by the 18th of May (there first phase of opening) they need to have 100,000 tests a week (14k a day)

Testing is the biggest key... It will tell if things are working or not. US is testing at about half the rate of Europe...

Didn't ask you any of that, not in the OP and not the post you're ostensibly responding to.

I'll rephrase: if you're not advocating for the lockdowns to continue, doesn't that make you a hypocrite for attacking people who support re-opening?