London on Lockdown

[syrenn]

Oh for God's sake, Alexa. Do you think there's any chance you could quarterise that bleeding heart of yours, for just one moment, eh?

My 'bleeding heart' is my education. I recommend a social science degree and a whole life's experience. What makes you believe that your personal opinion has more value than education?






I was not talking about their poverty but responding to someone saying it was a choice. That simply isn't true.

However, £65 dole per week buys sfa in this country. Have you never heard of relative poverty. While you are correct they are less poor than people in many places, relative to the standard of life which most Britain's enjoy, they have very little.

Absolute poverty means not enough to eat

relative poverty means not having enough money to participate in the 'norms' of society. That is the poverty they suffer from and that poverty has social implications for all society.

Because they have so little, gangs have got in, they are the ones doing the socialisation spreading the crime ethos, allowing an opportunity for a person to grow in status, make some money, creating fear and demanding gang loyalty. So they take what their culture offers. They join a gang and gain self esteem and money.

You do not understand how children learn in their childhood what life is like so that if all they see around is crime, instead of wanting to be the best in class, they will want to be the best criminal.

These areas need input. Instead they have had 75% of their community money withdrawn and youth clubs closed.

They need to allow the possibility for those living there to be able to advance to a life other than crime. They need opportunities and support to move on.

These people will have a complete expectation to be treated, for free, in hospitals created and staffed by the society they resent and are currently setting-out to destroy. What they see as 'inequality' is an apparent challenge to their acquisition of a BMW, when their expectation is to be given everything for nothing. They see no challenge with looting shops, because they've probably never worked hard for anything in their life.

These are children. I suspect that is why we are just seeing this madness rather than any properly organised protest.

Being a purported member of the aristocracy you are an arrogant, patronising man. Never occur to you that they might like what the rest of us lesser mortals in the UK want. The opportunity to get a good education, a good job, buy a house and have a decent family life because I have to tell you that is what I have heard they are after.

Now my lawn needs cut.

I work with people like you - social scientists. You guys are responsible for this shit. Your dumbassed 'research' and stupid 'research based conclusions' about handing people something for nothing is what brought this situation to fruition. I hope you're proud of yourselves.

Want to know why these kids have no hope? Because people like you took it away from them. You created the hand out system that has, for generations, destroyed the fabric of Britain's society. You taught the parents and grandparents of these kids that they didn't have to work. You taught them that society owes them everything. You hand them homes, and money, and vacations, and goods, and services.... and you took away the single most valuable thing to human beings - self respect.

 

[alexa]

My 'bleeding heart' is my education. I recommend a social science degree and a whole life's experience. What makes you believe that your personal opinion has more value than education?






I was not talking about their poverty but responding to someone saying it was a choice. That simply isn't true.

However, £65 dole per week buys sfa in this country. Have you never heard of relative poverty. While you are correct they are less poor than people in many places, relative to the standard of life which most Britain's enjoy, they have very little.

Absolute poverty means not enough to eat

relative poverty means not having enough money to participate in the 'norms' of society. That is the poverty they suffer from and that poverty has social implications for all society.

Because they have so little, gangs have got in, they are the ones doing the socialisation spreading the crime ethos, allowing an opportunity for a person to grow in status, make some money, creating fear and demanding gang loyalty. So they take what their culture offers. They join a gang and gain self esteem and money.

You do not understand how children learn in their childhood what life is like so that if all they see around is crime, instead of wanting to be the best in class, they will want to be the best criminal.

These areas need input. Instead they have had 75% of their community money withdrawn and youth clubs closed.

They need to allow the possibility for those living there to be able to advance to a life other than crime. They need opportunities and support to move on.




These are children. I suspect that is why we are just seeing this madness rather than any properly organised protest.

Being a purported member of the aristocracy you are an arrogant, patronising man. Never occur to you that they might like what the rest of us lesser mortals in the UK want. The opportunity to get a good education, a good job, buy a house and have a decent family life because I have to tell you that is what I have heard they are after.

Now my lawn needs cut.

I work with people like you - social scientists. You guys are responsible for this shit. Your dumbassed 'research' and stupid 'research based conclusions' about handing people something for nothing is what brought this situation to fruition. I hope you're proud of yourselves.

Want to know why these kids have no hope? Because people like you took it away from them. You created the hand out system that has, for generations, destroyed the fabric of Britain's society. You taught the parents and grandparents of these kids that they didn't have to work. You taught them that society owes them everything. You hand them homes, and money, and vacations, and goods, and services.... and you took away the single most valuable thing to human beings - self respect.

what exactly do you do? Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.

People need the opportunity to succeed. When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.

We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s. If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.

Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.

 

[Intense]

This is happening in Britain, they don't have our 'Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness' mentality.

They did have it CG. Locke was British. John Locke: A Letter Concerning Toleration

Britain advocates Christianity. Maybe they need to pay more attention to Scripture.

All this time I thought England was the 51st State!

A State, The USA's partner in crime is more like.. what do ya say?

Blues

Nah. Neither of us are destroying the quality of life. That's outside influence more than what is going on within.

 

[California Girl]

I work with people like you - social scientists. You guys are responsible for this shit. Your dumbassed 'research' and stupid 'research based conclusions' about handing people something for nothing is what brought this situation to fruition. I hope you're proud of yourselves.

Want to know why these kids have no hope? Because people like you took it away from them. You created the hand out system that has, for generations, destroyed the fabric of Britain's society. You taught the parents and grandparents of these kids that they didn't have to work. You taught them that society owes them everything. You hand them homes, and money, and vacations, and goods, and services.... and you took away the single most valuable thing to human beings - self respect.

what exactly do you do? Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.

People need the opportunity to succeed. When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.

We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s. If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.

Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.

What do I do? I translate social science research and economic research into clear, concise English for non academics. I work with economists to write books, articles for media, etc.

Even social scientists that I work with are talking about the abject failure of your 'research based' government policies. Nothing to do with Thatcher (although I believe she was wrong about many things).... Both your 'Labour' party or your 'Conservative' party have fucked this up.

You cannot take away people's self respect and expect no consequence. That is what your welfare system does.

I have said - many times - that all governments - yours and ours and others - need to realize that these 'socialist' policies do not work. They are damaging to individuals and to society.

Social sciences.... you've done far more harm than good.

 

[Intense]

I work with people like you - social scientists. You guys are responsible for this shit. Your dumbassed 'research' and stupid 'research based conclusions' about handing people something for nothing is what brought this situation to fruition. I hope you're proud of yourselves.

Want to know why these kids have no hope? Because people like you took it away from them. You created the hand out system that has, for generations, destroyed the fabric of Britain's society. You taught the parents and grandparents of these kids that they didn't have to work. You taught them that society owes them everything. You hand them homes, and money, and vacations, and goods, and services.... and you took away the single most valuable thing to human beings - self respect.

what exactly do you do? Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.

People need the opportunity to succeed. When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.

We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s. If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.

Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.

Without values there is no opportunity to succeed. The Individual V.S. the Collective, again and again. There is one thing you will never see an Individual without, and a Collective with. Conscience. Is it Individual Witness that the Collective fears most? Fear that it may be accused, exposed of misdirection, fear so great, that it must beat the individual into submission, the need to bind, to silence, to bring into conformity, rather than face the truth, the consequences of it's own actions. " The Emperor's New Suit", great read. As opposed to the State treating each Citizen as helpless dependent toddlers, it teaches personal Responsibility. Funny how we so often tend to build our ideologies on the most absurd foundations, huh.

 

[Colin]

I work with people like you - social scientists. You guys are responsible for this shit. Your dumbassed 'research' and stupid 'research based conclusions' about handing people something for nothing is what brought this situation to fruition. I hope you're proud of yourselves.

Want to know why these kids have no hope? Because people like you took it away from them. You created the hand out system that has, for generations, destroyed the fabric of Britain's society. You taught the parents and grandparents of these kids that they didn't have to work. You taught them that society owes them everything. You hand them homes, and money, and vacations, and goods, and services.... and you took away the single most valuable thing to human beings - self respect.

what exactly do you do? Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.

People need the opportunity to succeed. When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.

We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s. If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.

Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.

Bullshit! Perhaps it has escaped your notice that the rioting and looting is no longer confined to the inner city ghettoes. It has now expanded to the more affluent leafy suburbs and yes, we sure do need to address the issues...starting with the likes of the bleeding hearts who are so quick to find excuses for these scum and who are a root cause of the breakdown of discipline in this country. First lesson...wanna riot and loot on our streets? Expect to get your head cracked. And when caught. Give them five years inside with no remission.

 

[California Girl]

Every police cell in London is full. Oops. They're gonna have to ship any new arrests out to the Home Counties. LOL

 

[California Girl]

what exactly do you do? Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.

People need the opportunity to succeed. When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.

We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s. If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.

Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.

Bullshit! Perhaps it has escaped your notice that the rioting and looting is no longer confined to the inner city ghettoes. It has now expanded to the more affluent leafy suburbs and yes, we sure do need to address the issues...starting with the likes of the bleeding hearts who are so quick to find excuses for these scum and who are a root cause of the breakdown of discipline in this country. First lesson...wanna riot and loot on our streets? Expect to get your head cracked. And when caught. Give them five years inside with no remission.

She's a social scientist. I've yet to meet a social scientist that wasn't a bleeding heart liberal. They're all obsessed with finding excuses for brats. It's society's fault...

What's that phrase you Brits use..... bring back the birch? Give the little thugs a thrashing so they can't sit down for a week.

 

[Colin]

I watched our glorious leader, newly returned from his holiday villa this morning on TV.
Tonight will decide who is in charge of this country, the thugs or the law. I watched with
amazement on TV last night, these thieves and rioters running amoke in London and a few
other cities. The police just seemed to be standing there, and doing nothing. Hopefully
tonight the kid gloves will be taken off, I shall wait and see.......

Don't expect too much. The politicians have drawn the teeth of our police force to the extent that they are damned if they exert force and they're damned if they don't. How many times have we seen police officers in previous violent demonstrations charged for splitting heads with their batons? It's got so bad that most of the time all they're prepared to do is watch out for each other...and who can blame them. Until our politicians recognise that violence and looting can only be policed with FORCE, we are on a loser! These kids need to know that if they're on the streets to riot and loot they can expect ultimate force and if they get injured...fucking tough! Unfortunately Cameron et al don't have the balls to do the right thing. If only we had someone like Thatcher...the Iron Maiden!

 

[Ravi]

I just watched a few interviews on BBC and it seems mainly about how the police are targeting people in the poorer neighborhoods.

So easy to blame this on what you dislike. Better to know the real cause.

The police are targeting poor people? Really?

According to the interviews I watched on BBC, yes.

It is also reported as if it is a class war.

And the Tories are blaming the police response as too slow and others are blaming the Tories for cutting the police.

 

[Colin]

Every police cell in London is full. Oops. They're gonna have to ship any new arrests out to the Home Counties. LOL

And there's another thing! What are our lily livered politicians going to say next? They're going to say, oh dear, we can't put these criminals in prison. The jails are full. Let's give them community orders. WTF! They keep crying about lack of space in our prisons...SO BUILD MORE FUCKING PRISONS, MORONS!

Successive governments sex up their manifestos with promises of tough on crime but come the hour we can see that manifestos are built on a foundation of lies! Still, as long as members of parliament are able to fiddle their expenses why should they worry about things not affecting their own back yard.

 

[alexa]

London on Lockdown 08-09-2011 04:19 PM GHook93 "Hopefully some of those rioters get you!"

well a change from the sexual filth but as usual incapable of debating, just neg repping and hoping I am harmed.

 

[Intense]

London riots: international reaction
The riots in London have sparked shock around the world, with some countries issuing travel advisories for Britain and China blaming the UK's "human rights violations". Here is a round up of international reaction:
London riots: international reaction - Telegraph

 

[Colin]

London riots: international reaction
The riots in London have sparked shock around the world, with some countries issuing travel advisories for Britain and China blaming the UK's "human rights violations". Here is a round up of international reaction:
London riots: international reaction - Telegraph

Hey, Intense! This should be in the Humor section. Biggest laugh I've had all week!

 

[alexa]

Every police cell in London is full. Oops. They're gonna have to ship any new arrests out to the Home Counties. LOL

And there's another thing! What are our lily livered politicians going to say next? They're going to say, oh dear, we can't put these criminals in prison. The jails are full. Let's give them community orders. WTF! They keep crying about lack of space in our prisons...SO BUILD MORE FUCKING PRISONS, MORONS!

Successive governments sex up their manifestos with promises of tough on crime but come the hour we can see that manifestos are built on a foundation of lies! Still, as long as members of parliament are able to fiddle their expenses why should they worry about things not affecting their own back yard.

England and Wales have the highest per capita prison population in Western Europe - 143 people per 100,000.

Scotland, where 135 people out of every 100,000 are in jail, is also above average. Northern Ireland, however, is among those countries with the lowest rates of imprisonment.

BBC NEWS | In Depth

tough on time and low on rehabilitation does not solve crime.

Labour made a mistake by "playing tough" on crime and allowing the prison population to soar to record levels during its time in government, instead of tackling sky-high reoffending rates, the shadow justice secretary, Sadiq Khan, is to acknowledge for the first time on Monday.

-snip-

"A focus on rehabilitation and reducing reoffending was seen as being soft on crime, when in fact it is effective in reducing crime."

Khan also warns that Ken Clarke's "rehabilitation revolution", which includes greater use of the voluntary sector and payment-by-results schemes, is seriously jeopardised by 25% cuts in the justice ministry's budget. He argues that if Clarke's plans fail then much of the progress in criminal justice over the past 13 years will be undone and the door left opened for the Tory right.

Labour admits 'tough' penal policy failed to stem reoffending | Society | The Guardian

 

[alexa]

what exactly do you do? Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.

People need the opportunity to succeed. When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.

We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s. If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.

Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.

Bullshit! Perhaps it has escaped your notice that the rioting and looting is no longer confined to the inner city ghettoes. It has now expanded to the more affluent leafy suburbs and yes, we sure do need to address the issues...starting with the likes of the bleeding hearts who are so quick to find excuses for these scum and who are a root cause of the breakdown of discipline in this country. First lesson...wanna riot and loot on our streets? Expect to get your head cracked. And when caught. Give them five years inside with no remission.

I wish you guys would stop distorting what I am saying. I am not now and never have supported the rioting though it is just as bad wherever it happens.

I am not going to repeat what I said because anyone with any intelligence and openness will be able to see. I hope you are not like GHook wanting my head cracked..

 

[Colin]

Every police cell in London is full. Oops. They're gonna have to ship any new arrests out to the Home Counties. LOL

And there's another thing! What are our lily livered politicians going to say next? They're going to say, oh dear, we can't put these criminals in prison. The jails are full. Let's give them community orders. WTF! They keep crying about lack of space in our prisons...SO BUILD MORE FUCKING PRISONS, MORONS!

Successive governments sex up their manifestos with promises of tough on crime but come the hour we can see that manifestos are built on a foundation of lies! Still, as long as members of parliament are able to fiddle their expenses why should they worry about things not affecting their own back yard.

England and Wales have the highest per capita prison population in Western Europe - 143 people per 100,000.

Scotland, where 135 people out of every 100,000 are in jail, is also above average. Northern Ireland, however, is among those countries with the lowest rates of imprisonment.

BBC NEWS | In Depth

tough on time and low on rehabilitation does not solve crime.

Labour made a mistake by "playing tough" on crime and allowing the prison population to soar to record levels during its time in government, instead of tackling sky-high reoffending rates, the shadow justice secretary, Sadiq Khan, is to acknowledge for the first time on Monday.

-snip-

"A focus on rehabilitation and reducing reoffending was seen as being soft on crime, when in fact it is effective in reducing crime."

Khan also warns that Ken Clarke's "rehabilitation revolution", which includes greater use of the voluntary sector and payment-by-results schemes, is seriously jeopardised by 25% cuts in the justice ministry's budget. He argues that if Clarke's plans fail then much of the progress in criminal justice over the past 13 years will be undone and the door left opened for the Tory right.

Labour admits 'tough' penal policy failed to stem reoffending | Society | The Guardian

That's another thing bleeding hearts have done! Made the prisons too comfortable. We should take a leaf out of how the military prison in Colchester is run. I guarantee reoffending would reduce!

 

[Intense]

London riots: international reaction
The riots in London have sparked shock around the world, with some countries issuing travel advisories for Britain and China blaming the UK's "human rights violations". Here is a round up of international reaction:
London riots: international reaction - Telegraph

Hey, Intense! This should be in the Humor section. Biggest laugh I've had all week!

Yes. I especially got a kick out of China's response.

 

[editec]

what exactly do you do? Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.

People need the opportunity to succeed. When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.

We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s. If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.

Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.

Bullshit! Perhaps it has escaped your notice that the rioting and looting is no longer confined to the inner city ghettoes. It has now expanded to the more affluent leafy suburbs and yes, we sure do need to address the issues...starting with the likes of the bleeding hearts who are so quick to find excuses for these scum and who are a root cause of the breakdown of discipline in this country. First lesson...wanna riot and loot on our streets? Expect to get your head cracked. And when caught. Give them five years inside with no remission.

She's a social scientist. I've yet to meet a social scientist that wasn't a bleeding heart liberal. They're all obsessed with finding excuses for brats. It's society's fault...

What's that phrase you Brits use..... bring back the birch? Give the little thugs a thrashing so they can't sit down for a week.

Penologists are social scientists, too.

Cali, I have my doubts about your veracity.

Post like the above are why.

 

[Colin]

what exactly do you do? Have you not noticed that what I am saying is exactly the opposite of what you are claiming.

People need the opportunity to succeed. When you have situations as have grown in gang areas in London and elsewhere where these have basically taken over the socialisation process, you clearly need different input to give the kids a chance to reach something new.

We did not have those kind of gangs when I lived in London -left '88 and at that time we were far more into having socialist values. These gangs should have been nipped in the bud when they arose, not just left for the community to live on welfare and criminal activity s. If anything the problems come from Thatcherite ideas like there is no society or Friedman beliefs that we are all little isolated Robinson Crusoe's who care only for ourselves which is basically a psychopathic view as it believes people are totally without empathy.

Well tough luck because it is generally accepted here that after this is sorted out there is a need to address the issues.

Bullshit! Perhaps it has escaped your notice that the rioting and looting is no longer confined to the inner city ghettoes. It has now expanded to the more affluent leafy suburbs and yes, we sure do need to address the issues...starting with the likes of the bleeding hearts who are so quick to find excuses for these scum and who are a root cause of the breakdown of discipline in this country. First lesson...wanna riot and loot on our streets? Expect to get your head cracked. And when caught. Give them five years inside with no remission.

I wish you guys would stop distorting what I am saying. I am not now and never have supported the rioting though it is just as bad wherever it happens.

I am not going to repeat what I said because anyone with any intelligence and openness will be able to see. I hope you are not like GHook wanting my head cracked..

Have I said anything remotely similar? NO! So, why say it? Is that part of your ploy...to put the words into someone else's mouth. I can't say I'm surprised.