Looks like Baghdad imploding

[NotfooledbyW]

OS 11023245

So basically it's your position that even if Barack Obama's policy blunders make the problems in Iraq ten times worse than it ever was under Bush...that it's still Bush's fault? Gotcha! March 22, 2014 #187

Can you provide any data that Iraq is ten times worse than it ever was under Bush?

I can back my arguments up with data - Civilian deaths in Iraq war 2003-2015 Statistic

There were approximately 106,000 civilian Iraqi deaths from March 2003 through the end of March 2008. That comes to an average total of 18,435 Iraqi deaths over Bush's handling of 5.75 years of his dumb war.

There were approximately 46,000 civilian Iraqi deaths from 2009 through the end of March 2015. that comes to an average total of 7,387 Iraqi deaths over Obama's handling of 6.25 years of his dumb war.

There is no way for you to get statistically anywhere near Obama making Iraq ten times worse. So that is a serious misstatement of fact. It is a bold outright lie. The numbers on civilians deaths are that Bush's handling of Iraq was 2.5 times worse when Bush was President than since Obama inherited Bush's dumb war. And with the declining numbers for 2015 thus far it looks like civilian casualties will return to roughly the 2009 levels when there were were at least 124,000 US troops on the ground in Iraq. Obama has done better than Bush by far with no troops in Iraq at all in a combat role since the start of 2012.

So could you please try to refrain from making your absolute bogus claims Oldstyle that are purely based only upon your hatred of Obama. You should be embarrassed. TEN TIMES WORSE??? my god what an outlandish claim.

 

[Oldstyle]

OS 11022504 RE: konradv, post: 9603642

Six years of Barry have gotten us to the point we're at now. If you REALLY wanted a stable Iraq then you should have followed the advice of your military leaders and left enough troops in Iraq to keep ISIS from taking over.

If you really wanted a stable Iraq you should not have invaded Iraq in the first place. The inspectors were verifying that Iraq did not have WMD stockpiles or programs to make them. But if you had to be dumb enough to invade Iraq when inspectors were in their you should have listened to your military advisers and gone with several hundred thousand troops and a plan for setting up a government to replace the one you just tore down. I have not hear you complain that Bush ignored Shineski and other military advisers that a plan was needed to be able to keep Iraq stable after removing the regime that kept order and prevented AQ and ISIS types from gaining ground in Iraq.

Your are complaining that six years of Obama got us to the point we were at on March 22 2015 but it looks like now with the liberation of Tikrit this past week that within a year Iraq will be stabilized without Daesh going on a killing rampage as they did for six months in 2014.

So my projections are that 8 years of Obama has one year of increased violence in Iraq but never as high as 2006 and that was achieved with no US combat troops in a combat role and no fatalities after 2010,

On the otherhand with Bush he had five years total with only one being stable but not as stable as prior to the invasion itself. That is a total of increased instability plus 4484 US deaths and 40,000 casualties for four years with only one relatively stable year out of five years. That is 20% stability for Bush and 80% stability for Obama in Iraq by Wingnut statndards.

I hate to interrupt your "Barry Love Fest" with a dose of reality, NotFooled but we've lost more of our military under Obama than we ever did under W. In Afghanistan it's at a 3 to 1 ratio. This notion that Obama policy has created "stability" in the Middle East is laughable. Quite frankly I haven't seen the Middle East or Northern Africa this unstable ever!

 

[Oldstyle]

OS 11023245

So basically it's your position that even if Barack Obama's policy blunders make the problems in Iraq ten times worse than it ever was under Bush...that it's still Bush's fault? Gotcha! March 22, 2014 #187

Can you provide any data that Iraq is ten times worse than it ever was under Bush?

I can back my arguments up with data - Civilian deaths in Iraq war 2003-2015 Statistic

There were approximately 106,000 civilian Iraqi deaths from March 2003 through the end of March 2008. That comes to an average total of 18,435 Iraqi deaths over Bush's handling of 5.75 years of his dumb war.

There were approximately 46,000 civilian Iraqi deaths from 2009 through the end of March 2015. that comes to an average total of 7,387 Iraqi deaths over Obama's handling of 6.25 years of his dumb war.

There is no way for you to get statistically anywhere near Obama making Iraq ten times worse. So that is a serious misstatement of fact. It is a bold outright lie. The numbers on civilians deaths are that Bush's handling of Iraq was 2.5 times worse when Bush was President than since Obama inherited Bush's dumb war. And with the declining numbers for 2015 thus far it looks like civilian casualties will return to roughly the 2009 levels when there were were at least 124,000 US troops on the ground in Iraq. Obama has done better than Bush by far with no troops in Iraq at all in a combat role since the start of 2012.

So could you please try to refrain from making your absolute bogus claims Oldstyle that are purely based only upon your hatred of Obama. You should be embarrassed. TEN TIMES WORSE??? my god what an outlandish claim.

And all you have to do is look at your statistical chart on civilian deaths to know that something has gone terribly wrong in Iraq since we pulled our troops out. Civilian deaths are spiking dramatically and it's obviously because Barry took out the US troops that would have kept things under control and badly misjudged the capabilities of ISIS.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

OS 11072849

He was told by his military advisers that a rushed withdrawal could endanger stability in Iraq but he chose to ignore their advice and do it anyways. The result is ISIS controlling vast areas of Iraq. That's on nobody but Barry!

So according to your mindset then the fact that Daesh terrorist scum will most likely be driven out of Iraq within the 21 months that Obama has in office - This victory will be on nobody but "Barry" as you say it, right? Tikrit is free and 25% of other territory that Daesh took is now liberated. Thank God Barry did it all right? And your knuckle-headed fears that the Iranian backed militias were going to massacre Sunnis in areas like Tikrit once liberated have not transpired. So there goes another fool-headed prediction down the RW sewer of falsehoods and pro-ISIS propaganda. You never thought ISIS would be defeated did you Oldstyle? Your flip to fear of Iranians in Iraq is another loser argument for the whacky right.

"The situation now is calm," said a police major in Tikrit, speaking on condition of anonymity.

Some eyewitnesses and government officials also blamed local Sunnis for the looting.

Abadi, a moderate Shi'ite Islamist, has insisted that he will not tolerate rights abuses by any group in the war against IS, which has massacred thousands of Iraqi Shi'ites and members of other groups.

Iraqi troops, working in tandem with Shi'ite militias, secured Tikrit on Wednesday, but as the government declared victories, paramilitary fighters started ransacking buildings, according to local officials and witnesses.

On Friday, Abadi had ordered security forces to arrest anyone breaking the law and then convened his meeting on Saturday with Salahuddin's governor and key officials.

"It sent a clear message to everyone. Although it is very challenging, the prime minister is on the top of situation," said Rafid Jaboori, Abadi's spokesman. (Reporting by Ned Parker; Editing by Robin Pomeroy and Stephen Powell)

Shi ite fighters leave Tikrit after looting - Iraqi officials Reuters


Nice dose of reality for you Oldstyle.. Are you going to congratulate "Barry" on this major victory in Tikrit and for calming the situation down so rapidly - now its also time to support the new Iraqi PM in helping to restore Sunni Tikrit to its pre-.Daesh conditions. That is if you truly care about Iraqis. And you should thank "Barry" for getting rid of Maliki. He was the cancer that tore Iraq apart in the first place.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Page 18 Ten Times Worse???.

OS 11023245

So basically it's your position that even if Barack Obama's policy blunders make the problems in Iraq ten times worse than it ever was under Bush...that it's still Bush's fault? Gotcha! Mar 22, 2015#187

NF 11118895

Can you provide any data that Iraq is ten times worse than it ever was under Bush? I can back my arguments up with data - Civilian deaths in Iraq war 2003-2015 Statistic

There were approximately 106,000 civilian Iraqi deaths from March 2003 through the end of March 2008. That comes to an average total of 18,435 Iraqi deaths over Bush's handling of 5.75 years of his dumb war.

There were approximately 46,000 civilian Iraqi deaths from 2009 through the end of March 2015. that comes to an average total of 7,387 Iraqi deaths over Obama's handling of 6.25 years of his dumb war.

OS 11120821

And all you have to do is look at your statistical chart on civilian deaths to know that something has gone terribly wrong in Iraq since we pulled our troops out. Civilian deaths are spiking dramatically and it's obviously because Barry took out the US troops that would have kept things under control and badly misjudged the capabilities of ISIS. #383

I asked if you could provide any data that Iraq is ten times worse than it ever was under Bush? So it is obvious by your latest response that you are unable to back up your false claim. We all can see that you do not rely on facts to form your opinions expressed on this forum. Is it impossible for you to tell the truth? You were the one that said Iraq was ten times worse under Obama than it was under Bush. That is in no way true or even close to it.

Also no one has argued that Daesh terrorist scum was not terrible and is still terrible but they are on the run. It is now much more obvious that Obama was correct to pull troops out and not provide military support for Maliki. You are simply wrong about that too. And since you can't be honest with hard facts such as comparing Bush to Obama, what you say should be discarded as the delusions of a know-nothing that makes things up as he goes.

.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

OS 11120799

I hate to interrupt your "Barry Love Fest" with a dose of reality, NotFooled but we've lost more of our military under Obama than we ever did under W. In Afghanistan it's at a 3 to 1 ratio. This notion that Obama policy has created "stability" in the Middle East is laughable. Quite frankly I haven't seen the Middle East or Northern Africa this unstable ever! #382

Are you nuts?

This thread is about Iraq.


From 2003 through 2008 there were 4316 American Troops who lost their lives in Iraq. From 2001 through 2008 there were 532 American troops who lost their lives in Afghanistan. That is 4,848 Americans who lost their lives in both wars under Bush.

From 2009 through present there were 269 American Troops who lost their lives in Iraq. From 2009 through present there were 1,993 American troops who lost their lives in Afghanistan. That is 2,262 Americans who lost their lives in both wars under Bush.

I have no respect for Republicans who compare Bush to Obama and who don't count 4,316 Americans who Bush sent to die in a war that did not need to happen and Bush was not prepared to deal with in a war they said would last months not years and Iraq's oil would pay for it and it would cost $50 Billion tops and our troops would be greeted as liberators. .

 

[Oldstyle]

Page 18 Ten Times Worse???.

OS 11023245

So basically it's your position that even if Barack Obama's policy blunders make the problems in Iraq ten times worse than it ever was under Bush...that it's still Bush's fault? Gotcha! Mar 22, 2015#187

NF 11118895

Can you provide any data that Iraq is ten times worse than it ever was under Bush? I can back my arguments up with data - Civilian deaths in Iraq war 2003-2015 Statistic

There were approximately 106,000 civilian Iraqi deaths from March 2003 through the end of March 2008. That comes to an average total of 18,435 Iraqi deaths over Bush's handling of 5.75 years of his dumb war.

There were approximately 46,000 civilian Iraqi deaths from 2009 through the end of March 2015. that comes to an average total of 7,387 Iraqi deaths over Obama's handling of 6.25 years of his dumb war.

OS 11120821

And all you have to do is look at your statistical chart on civilian deaths to know that something has gone terribly wrong in Iraq since we pulled our troops out. Civilian deaths are spiking dramatically and it's obviously because Barry took out the US troops that would have kept things under control and badly misjudged the capabilities of ISIS. #383

I asked if you could provide any data that Iraq is ten times worse than it ever was under Bush? So it is obvious by your latest response that you are unable to back up your false claim. We all can see that you do not rely on facts to form your opinions expressed on this forum. Is it impossible for you to tell the truth? You were the one that said Iraq was ten times worse under Obama than it was under Bush. That is in no way true or even close to it.

Also no one has argued that Daesh terrorist scum was not terrible and is still terrible but they are on the run. It is now much more obvious that Obama was correct to pull troops out and not provide military support for Maliki. You are simply wrong about that too. And since you can't be honest with hard facts such as comparing Bush to Obama, what you say should be discarded as the delusions of a know-nothing that makes things up as he goes.

.

I wonder if the tens of thousands of Iraqis who were slaughtered by ISIS as they rolled through Iraq were thinking to themselves "Boy, Barack Obama sure was correct about pulling US troops out!" right before they were lined up to be shot?

 

[Oldstyle]

That right there is the message that's clearly been sent about what you risk by aligning yourself with a US President who's unwilling to back up his promises. If you don't think the average man on the street in Afghanistan is paying close attention to what happened in Iraq as soon as the US troops pulled out you're either incredibly naive or incredibly stupid.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Page 18 Ten Times Worse???.

I asked if you could provide any data that Iraq is ten times worse than it ever was under Bush? You made that claim. Why are you running from it now>

OS 11126594 OS 11126538

I wonder if the tens of thousands of Iraqis who were slaughtered by ISIS as they rolled through Iraq were thinking to themselves "Boy, Barack Obama sure was correct about pulling US troops out!" right before they were lined up to be shot? #387

I wonder if the 119,236 Iraqis who were slaughtered and became fatal collateral damage as a result of the US invasion of Iraq in March 2003 through 2011 while US troops continued their presence there were thinking to themselves “boy George W Bush was correct to kick the UN inspectors out and send 160,000 Americans into Iraq to shoot them on their way to democracy that suited George Bush Dick Cheney and Oldstyle? Think about. How is it ten times worse now with no US troops shooting anybody in Iraq since the beginning of 2012?


Since US troops left Iraq in December 2011, there have been 32,651 Iraq civilians killed. perhaps half that many were the result of Daesh Terrorist Scum.

Perhaps you do not understand numbers Oldstyle? 120,000 Iraqis killed when US troops present is about four times worse than when US troops were gone.

OS 11126594

That right there is the message that's clearly been sent about what you risk by aligning yourself with a US President who's unwilling to back up his promises. If you don't think the average man on the street in Afghanistan is paying close attention to what happened in Iraq as soon as the US troops pulled out you're either incredibly naive or incredibly stupid.#388

Obama committed to Afghanistan's long term Security a year before Daesh made their big Republican pleasing assault last June. That deal is good through 2024 and Obama negotiated a ten year SOFA agreement that includes immunity for our troops for ten years at least. So you make no sense as you continue to pretend that you do not have any statistical backup for your huge false claim against Obama that Iraq is ten times worse under Obama than it was under Bush. How long do you want to pretend that you didn't make that crap up? Just admit it. Iraq is better off since the US troops were pulled out int terms of civilian casualties and your Daesh is being defeated and slaughtered now without the need for US troops to die in THEIR fight. It is THEIR fight. We should never force US troops into Iraq ever again. Thank god Obama did not. Thank god another idiot President like Romney is not sending Americans to start dying in Iraq all over again.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

120,000 Iraqis killed from March 2003 through December 2011 while US troops were still present in Iraq until GW Bush's agreed deadline for all of them to leave and not a peep from Oldstyle about that. Or the 4484 US troops that were killed there too. That was good US presidential policy to Oldstyle.

 

[Oldstyle]

You can't seem to comprehend what Obama lack of a coherent foreign "policy" has done to the reputation of the United States throughout the world...can you, Notfooled? What do you think moderates are doing in Afghanistan right now after watching how Barry walked away from Iraq and left them to the non existent mercies of ISIS? He drew a "red line" in the sand with Syria and then walked away from it. He declared Yemen a "success story" for his anti-terror agenda and now he's pulled our troops out of there and walked away from it because THAT has turned to shit. He's gone from a strategy of "Leading From Behind" to "Running Away and Hiding"!

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Page 18 Ten Times Worse???.

I asked if you could provide any data that Iraq is ten times worse than it ever was under Bush? You made that claim. Why are you continuing to running from it? I don't want to change the subject to Afghanistan or Syria although you are equally wrong about those to areas of conflict, until you provide the back up data that Iraq is ten times worse under Obama than it ever was under Bush. Remember Bush started the whole mess and Obama said it would be dumb before he did it.


OS 11130457

You can't seem to comprehend what Obama lack of a coherent foreign "policy" has done to the reputation of the United States throughout the world...can you, Notfooled? #391

There is no lack of a coherent foreign policy by Obama which is why, if you want to say there is, you need to provide something that shows that Iraq is ten times worse now than it was under Bush. That is simply not true. If anything it is four times better and it is four times better in terms of Iraqi deaths and there are no US troops in Iraq on the ground in a combat role. So your argument is that it is ten times worse with no US troops on the ground "fighting" as it was when Bush had 150,000 US troops killing and getting killed for five years. Civilian deaths in the several years prior to the invasion was quite minimal There is no rational or reasonable or sane data that supports your argument. So why not put your right wing talking point cliché's away a moment and reflect on this reality:

Since US troops left Iraq in December 2011, there have been 32,651 Iraq civilians killed. perhaps half that many were the result of Daesh Terrorist Scum. Perhaps you do not understand numbers Oldstyle? 120,000 Iraqis that were getting killed when US combat troops were present is about four times worse than when US troops were gone. Your argument that Iraq would be better off with US ground troops is belied by this reality. But being a conservative "reality" is none of your concern when it comes to Obama bashing.

Why not respond to my replies about Iraq before you go jumping to all your other myths about Obama's foreign policy?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Page 18 Ten Times Worse???.

OS 11023245

So basically it's your position that even if Barack Obama's policy blunders make the problems in Iraq ten times worse than it ever was under Bush...that it's still Bush's fault? Gotcha! #187

Over 1,000,000 Iraqis would have to die over a five or six year period diring Obama.'s presidency in order for your statement to be true. Daesh may kill 15,000 to 20,000 before being completely driven out of Iraq. So that's 980,000 dead Iraqis to go before your statement of fact could become a fact. Do you think Daesh will kill that many over the next 20 months?

If not why make false claims and arguments against the current US president and sugarcoat the dumb war started by the previous US president ?

 

[Oldstyle]

Page 18 Ten Times Worse???.

I asked if you could provide any data that Iraq is ten times worse than it ever was under Bush? You made that claim. Why are you continuing to running from it? I don't want to change the subject to Afghanistan or Syria although you are equally wrong about those to areas of conflict, until you provide the back up data that Iraq is ten times worse under Obama than it ever was under Bush. Remember Bush started the whole mess and Obama said it would be dumb before he did it.


OS 11130457

You can't seem to comprehend what Obama lack of a coherent foreign "policy" has done to the reputation of the United States throughout the world...can you, Notfooled? #391

There is no lack of a coherent foreign policy by Obama which is why, if you want to say there is, you need to provide something that shows that Iraq is ten times worse now than it was under Bush. That is simply not true. If anything it is four times better and it is four times better in terms of Iraqi deaths and there are no US troops in Iraq on the ground in a combat role. So your argument is that it is ten times worse with no US troops on the ground "fighting" as it was when Bush had 150,000 US troops killing and getting killed for five years. Civilian deaths in the several years prior to the invasion was quite minimal There is no rational or reasonable or sane data that supports your argument. So why not put your right wing talking point cliché's away a moment and reflect on this reality:

Since US troops left Iraq in December 2011, there have been 32,651 Iraq civilians killed. perhaps half that many were the result of Daesh Terrorist Scum. Perhaps you do not understand numbers Oldstyle? 120,000 Iraqis that were getting killed when US combat troops were present is about four times worse than when US troops were gone. Your argument that Iraq would be better off with US ground troops is belied by this reality. But being a conservative "reality" is none of your concern when it comes to Obama bashing.

Why not respond to my replies about Iraq before you go jumping to all your other myths about Obama's foreign policy?

Why don't YOU respond to my reply that pointed out that your own graph shows an incredible spike in Iraqi civilian deaths since Barry pulled all of our troops out? That is "reality". That is what Barack Obama allowed to happen because he wanted to be able to stand on a stage and tell his adoring fans that he'd "ended" the war in Iraq! REALITY is that he ignored the advice of his Secretary of Defense, his Joint Chiefs and his State Department and followed the advice of a small group of Administration insiders led by Valerie Jarrett who wanted a total troop withdrawal no matter what.

 

[Oldstyle]

From your own graph on civilian deaths in Iraq...

2009 5,349
2010 4,116
2011 4,153
US troops withdrawn from Iraq in Dec. of 2011
2012 4,622
2013 9,742
2014 17,073

That's just civilian deaths that have taken place since Obama's misguided decision was made. It doesn't address the rapes and beatings or the millions of Iraqis that have been forced to flee their homes and now live in refugee camps since ISIS moved in force into Iraq.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

OS 11130457

What do you think moderates are doing in Afghanistan right now after watching how Barry walked away from Iraq and left them to the non existent mercies of ISIS?

Did you really want an honest and satisfactory answer to your question? If not , I'll give it to you anyway. The moderates in Afghanistan first of all did not watch President a Obama walk away from Afghanistan. They watched Bush agree with Maliki and Iraq's Parliament legally put an end to the US troop presence in Iraq by 2012.

They did however watch the Iraqi Army fold and run from Daesh terrorist scum and watched the devastation that those Sunni scum have sown upon the region. Afghan moderates have no reason to blame Obama for a ISIS expansion and terrorist activity because they know Obama had nothing to do with causing their own violent ordeals with the Taliban.

They now see the US and many nations in a coalition that is successfully driving Daesh terrorist scum out of Iraq. They see their neighbor on the west also helping Iraq defeat the terrorist scum alongside the US other nations.

You could learn a lot from the courageous and defiant moderate people of Afghanistan. They defy the Taliban and send their daughters to school. They have manned three hundred thousand army and police who have been tested and are fighting the Taliban on offense and are not running away as the crony infested and corrupted army that Maliki established in Iraq that was never truly tested as the Afghan Army has been now for several years under Obama.

The moderates see an Obama deal brewing involving the US and Iran that will potentially bring an Iranian and Indian alliance to fruition that has been long sought by Afghanistan that will help to improve Afghanistan's economy and therefore improve the overall security in the area without the need for any US or foreign ground fighting troops just like Obama and the Iraqis have insisted be the case in Iraq.

You could learn something from Afghani moderates Oldstyle. It's that hating Obama the way you do will not solve the problems that many good people face around the world. In fact US right wing hatred of Obama helps encourage all the enemies of good people everywhere.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

OS 11139976.

Why don't YOU respond to my reply that pointed out that your own graph shows an incredible spike in Iraqi civilian deaths since Barry pulled all of our troops out?

Because I have challenged your obscene and maliciously dishonest claim that Obama made Iraq ten times worse.

Page 18 Ten Times Worse???. OS 11023245 ↑"So basically it's your position that even if Barack Obama's policy blunders make the problems in Iraq ten times worse than it ever was under Bush...that it's still Bush's fault? Gotcha! #187 "

And you do not have the decency to admit that you made your claim up out of absolutely nothing. And no America soldiers are dying on Iraq's soil in the current battle. Your lack of appreciation for the latter is downright disgusting.

 

[Oldstyle]

OS 11139976.

Why don't YOU respond to my reply that pointed out that your own graph shows an incredible spike in Iraqi civilian deaths since Barry pulled all of our troops out?

Because I have challenged your obscene and maliciously dishonest claim that Obama made Iraq ten times worse.

Page 18 Ten Times Worse???. OS 11023245 ↑"So basically it's your position that even if Barack Obama's policy blunders make the problems in Iraq ten times worse than it ever was under Bush...that it's still Bush's fault? Gotcha! #187 "

And you do not have the decency to admit that you made your claim up out of absolutely nothing. And no America soldiers are dying on Iraq's soil in the current battle. Your lack of appreciation for the latter is downright disgusting.

Too bad that thousands of American soldiers made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq only to have Barry simply walk away from that country and surrender it to ISIS because he was too stupid to listen to his own military advisers.

Too bad that tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis have paid with their lives for Barry's decision to tuck tail and run in Iraq. Too bad that millions more have been displaced from their homes trying to escape the horror that is ISIS.

I find all of that to be downright disgusting, Notfooled...but that's just me...

 

[Moonglow]

Iraq has to learn to stand on it own some day....

 

[Oldstyle]

OS 11130457

What do you think moderates are doing in Afghanistan right now after watching how Barry walked away from Iraq and left them to the non existent mercies of ISIS?

Did you really want an honest and satisfactory answer to your question? If not , I'll give it to you anyway. The moderates in Afghanistan first of all did not watch President a Obama walk away from Afghanistan. They watched Bush agree with Maliki and Iraq's Parliament legally put an end to the US troop presence in Iraq by 2012.

They did however watch the Iraqi Army fold and run from Daesh terrorist scum and watched the devastation that those Sunni scum have sown upon the region. Afghan moderates have no reason to blame Obama for a ISIS expansion and terrorist activity because they know Obama had nothing to do with causing their own violent ordeals with the Taliban.

They now see the US and many nations in a coalition that is successfully driving Daesh terrorist scum out of Iraq. They see their neighbor on the west also helping Iraq defeat the terrorist scum alongside the US other nations.

You could learn a lot from the courageous and defiant moderate people of Afghanistan. They defy the Taliban and send their daughters to school. They have manned three hundred thousand army and police who have been tested and are fighting the Taliban on offense and are not running away as the crony infested and corrupted army that Maliki established in Iraq that was never truly tested as the Afghan Army has been now for several years under Obama.

The moderates see an Obama deal brewing involving the US and Iran that will potentially bring an Iranian and Indian alliance to fruition that has been long sought by Afghanistan that will help to improve Afghanistan's economy and therefore improve the overall security in the area without the need for any US or foreign ground fighting troops just like Obama and the Iraqis have insisted be the case in Iraq.

You could learn something from Afghani moderates Oldstyle. It's that hating Obama the way you do will not solve the problems that many good people face around the world. In fact US right wing hatred of Obama helps encourage all the enemies of good people everywhere.

The moderates in Afghanistan have my admiration, Notfooled because they HAVE defied the Taliban. So how was Barack Obama about to repay them for that courage? He was about to do the same thing to them that he did to the people of Iraq. The only thing that has stopped him from pulling out of Afghanistan and leaving the moderates there to the "mercy" of the Taliban is that Iraq has become SO bad that he can't pretend that his withdrawal worked. Not even the liberal media was buying that anymore. Barry was forced to stay in Afghanistan because his policy of withdrawal in Iraq was shown to be such a total disaster.