Mass. 2nd grader sent home for crucifix drawing

[Lonestar_logic]

Fact is the cross is the best-known religious symbol of Christianity.

Thou shall make no graven images, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth

oops

In the words of Saint John of Damascus, "given our understanding of the Godhead, if God is invisible, as Saint John writes, how can we possibly depict God?", "It is obvious that when you contemplate God becoming man, then you may depict Him clothed in human form. When the invisible One becomes visible to flesh, you may then draw His likeness. When He who is bodiless and without form, immeasurable in the boundlessness of His own nature, existing in the form of God, empties Himself and takes the form of a servant in substance and in stature and is found in a body of flesh, then you may draw His image and show it to anyone willing to gaze upon it",

 

[☭proletarian☭]

So Saint John of Damascus has more authority than God and can overrule God's commands?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Maybe some people forget that the cross is an instrument of torture and execution. How about some kid draws a picture of a guillotine?

Is? I would agree that it once was, but I haven't heard of anyone being crucified in my lifetime. Fact is the cross is the best-known religious symbol of Christianity. The cross reminds Christians of God's act of love in Christ's sacrifice at Calvary—"the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world." The cross also reminds Christians of Jesus' victory over sin and death, since it is believed that through His death and resurrection He conquered death itself. They venerate it not as a material object seen in isolation but as the symbol of the sacrifice by which Christ saved us, as the instrument of Christ's triumph, according to Colossians 2:15 ("Having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross"), and "as the instrument of our God's saving Love".

And no one has been guillotined in my lifetime...how does that change things about something being an instrument of torture?

(And here you go again, foisting YOUR symbols on the rest of us like we too have to take on their bizarre mystical meanings)

The guillotine is an instrument of death moreso than torture, nice deflection though. Explaining how the cross is seen by Christians is not "foisting" anything on you but merely informing your ignorant ass on things you obviously have no knowledge of. Your willful ignorance is astounding.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

So Saint John of Damascus has more authority than God and can overrule God's commands?

No and you obviously have no authority on intelligence or the word of God. Didn't you say you read the Bible? If God simply forbids the making of graven images, then there are problems elsewhere in the Bible. First, in Exodus 25:18-21, God commands Moses to make two statues of angels (cherubim) for the top of the Ark of the Covenant. Later in Numbers 21:8-9, God commands Moses to make a bronze serpent, so that the people who were bitten by snakes could look upon it and be healed. Now it is true that centuries later King Hezekiah destroyed it; however, this action was done because the people worshipped it as a god (2 Kings 18:4). In the Gospel, Jesus compared Himself to the bronze serpent (John 3:14). Continuing in the Old Testament, the inner sanctuary of the Temple contained two large statues of angels according to 1 Kings 6:23-28. In the following verses, Solomon also had the walls of the Temple decorated with carved images of angels, palm trees and flowers (1 Kings 6:29ff). During the Babylonian Captivity, Ezekiel had a vision from God about the design of the new Temple. According to Ezekiel 41:17-25, this new Temple contained graven images of angels and palm trees. These passages in the Bible indicate that God does not forbid the making of statues. If God truly condemned the making of graven images in the "Second Commandment", then He must have changed His mind later in the Old Testament.

What you're really missing is the fact that when Christ was born so was born a new covenant when He reduced God's Commandments to the Two Great Commandments in Matt. 22:36-40.

"If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me." [Mark 8:34]

 

[Newby]

I have...on the average of one or two a month.

I call bull shit on that. I wonder if we did a poll on here of how many people have had a christian come knock on their door and try to convert them, how many would say that they have? 1% maybe? What denomination are the ones that knock on your door? What local church are they from?

I have...in the thousands before last November...entire congregations would go out there with their children and chant.

Go out where? Chant what? From what church? What is H8? I'm a christian and I have no idea what the hell you're even talking about.

So....you are saying that Christians that come to our doors are extremists? Ok, then...I'll buy that.

Yeah, I guess you're in that 1% of Americans that may have had someone come to your door to try to convert you. I know of no church in my area that does anything like that, ever. I've heard of Jehovah's Witnesses doing it, but that's it.

You are saying that the thousands who held up H8 signs this last fall are extremists? Ok, I will agree with you on that.

What are H8 signs? Gee, I'm a christian and I don't even know what you're talking about. Guess I better get with the program.

Thank you...I try to base what I talk about on real experiences. Glad to see you recognise as much.

Well, to be blunt, I think you're lying.

Only for the last 54 years.

From the 70's generation then, that doesn't surprise me.

When and where? What organization did they belong to as they came to your door? What organization did they represent when they protested in the thousands on street corners?

Look in this thread sweetie, and open your eyes.

I understand your definition of tolerance alright....do it our way because this is a christian nation....blah blah blah...based on judeo-christian ethics...blah, blah, blah. You're persecuting us because someone had the NERVE to say Happy Holidays to me instead of Merry Christmas...blah blah blah.

Poor persecuted you.

Do it my way? Am I the one bashing anyone on here for their beliefs? And you have the nerve to make those comments to me? I've never put down anyone's beliefs, ever. I've never tried to make anyone live by my morals, ever. I don't give a damn what you believe or how you live your life, just stay the hell out of mine by telling me what I have to accept or not accept. Nor do I want or expect any felicitations of anything from anyone like you.

I'm not persecuted at all, but I'm not going to sit quietly by while you feel free to bash my beliefs either. You've been told the Word, and you've rejected it, that's your choice and in the end only you have to live with it. I'm comfortable where I'm at and with what I believe, it's only those that are threatened by that and feel insecure that feel the need to bash and belittle.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

If God simply forbids the making of graven images, then there are problems elsewhere in the Bible. First, in Exodus 25:18-21, God commands Moses to make two statues of angels (cherubim) for the top of the Ark of the Covenant. Later in Numbers 21:8-9, God commands Moses to make a bronze serpent, so that the people who were bitten by snakes could look upon it and be healed. Now it is true that centuries later King Hezekiah destroyed it; however, this action was done because the people worshipped it as a god (2 Kings 18:4). In the Gospel, Jesus compared Himself to the bronze serpent (John 3:14). Continuing in the Old Testament, the inner sanctuary of the Temple contained two large statues of angels according to 1 Kings 6:23-28. In the following verses, Solomon also had the walls of the Temple decorated with carved images of angels, palm trees and flowers (1 Kings 6:29ff). During the Babylonian Captivity, Ezekiel had a vision from God about the design of the new Temple. According to Ezekiel 41:17-25, this new Temple contained graven images of angels and palm trees. These passages in the Bible indicate that God does not forbid the making of statues. If God truly condemned the making of graven images in the "Second Commandment", then He must have changed His mind later in the Old Testament.

Citing more contradictions in the Jewish fantasy of racial superiority and a magical skydaddy does nothing to strengthen your those claims

What you're really missing is the fact that when Christ was born so was born a new covenant when He reduced God's Commandments to the Two Great Commandments in Matt. 22:36-40.

No, he didn't dumbass. Everything he taught was already in the OT. The 10C weren't a separate thing, but merely the first ten of many laws in the OT.

 

[Charles Stucker]

Gosh lonestar, that one line of yours: "The kid drew a picture of himself PAYING for the sins of mankind." Just made my heart sink....maybe the child does have problems at home, and maybe the father, by calling racism is trying to deflect from this?

Another thread has links to a comment by the father and more raw data which indicates the entire complaint may be the father trying to bilk the school system out of money.

Must become more cynical when I hear compensation and racist mentioned in the same sentence.

 

[blu]

I can tell you've never read the Bible. Until you do, you should keep your ignorant opinions to yourself.

I read it.

A polytheist (Abram) chooses his favorite god, renames himself Abraham and starts a cult

fast forward

This cult declares itself racially superior and chosen by god,. They fight some wars, lose a few times, end up as slaves for a bit before taking part in an uprising and wandering around lost in the desert. Either in the beginning or the end (depending on whioch version of the story tyou're reading, in which book) they worship a gold statue of a cow and an old bastard named Moses gets pissed. They go on a campaign to rid the world of the lesser races, commits numerous genocides against the Canaanites, Moabites, Hittites, and others. They then found a nation that splits in two, a few tribes 'disappear' and eventually a few jews and some evil satanist gentiles claim a zombie is God and Christianity is formed.

Oh yeah, at one point, a bunch of them (the Levites) kill a bunch of their own people in order to declare themselves the police/ruling class (they call themselves priests)


It's a pretty fucked up story

Maybe you're the one 'fucked up'?

prove him wrong

 

[Newby]

If God simply forbids the making of graven images, then there are problems elsewhere in the Bible. First, in Exodus 25:18-21, God commands Moses to make two statues of angels (cherubim) for the top of the Ark of the Covenant. Later in Numbers 21:8-9, God commands Moses to make a bronze serpent, so that the people who were bitten by snakes could look upon it and be healed. Now it is true that centuries later King Hezekiah destroyed it; however, this action was done because the people worshipped it as a god (2 Kings 18:4). In the Gospel, Jesus compared Himself to the bronze serpent (John 3:14). Continuing in the Old Testament, the inner sanctuary of the Temple contained two large statues of angels according to 1 Kings 6:23-28. In the following verses, Solomon also had the walls of the Temple decorated with carved images of angels, palm trees and flowers (1 Kings 6:29ff). During the Babylonian Captivity, Ezekiel had a vision from God about the design of the new Temple. According to Ezekiel 41:17-25, this new Temple contained graven images of angels and palm trees. These passages in the Bible indicate that God does not forbid the making of statues. If God truly condemned the making of graven images in the "Second Commandment", then He must have changed His mind later in the Old Testament.

Citing more contradictions in the Jewish fantasy of racial superiority and a magical skydaddy does nothing to strengthen your those claims

What you're really missing is the fact that when Christ was born so was born a new covenant when He reduced God's Commandments to the Two Great Commandments in Matt. 22:36-40.

No, he didn't dumbass. Everything he taught was already in the OT. The 10C weren't a separate thing, but merely the first ten of many laws in the OT.

I sure hope you're not in any position in life where your blatant bias affects anyone else. You have serious issues.

 

[Newby]

I read it.

A polytheist (Abram) chooses his favorite god, renames himself Abraham and starts a cult

fast forward

This cult declares itself racially superior and chosen by god,. They fight some wars, lose a few times, end up as slaves for a bit before taking part in an uprising and wandering around lost in the desert. Either in the beginning or the end (depending on whioch version of the story tyou're reading, in which book) they worship a gold statue of a cow and an old bastard named Moses gets pissed. They go on a campaign to rid the world of the lesser races, commits numerous genocides against the Canaanites, Moabites, Hittites, and others. They then found a nation that splits in two, a few tribes 'disappear' and eventually a few jews and some evil satanist gentiles claim a zombie is God and Christianity is formed.

Oh yeah, at one point, a bunch of them (the Levites) kill a bunch of their own people in order to declare themselves the police/ruling class (they call themselves priests)


It's a pretty fucked up story

Maybe you're the one 'fucked up'?

prove him wrong

I don't have to prove anything, his blatant bias and hatred is obvious in every post he makes. If you don't want to believe in God/Bible/Jesus that's fine, but to go around belittling and bashing people because they do is an obvious flaw in character.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Citing the teachings of your religion is bashing?

It's your religion and your beliefs

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Citing the teachings of your religion is bashing?

It's your religion and your beliefs

 

[Lonestar_logic]

If God simply forbids the making of graven images, then there are problems elsewhere in the Bible. First, in Exodus 25:18-21, God commands Moses to make two statues of angels (cherubim) for the top of the Ark of the Covenant. Later in Numbers 21:8-9, God commands Moses to make a bronze serpent, so that the people who were bitten by snakes could look upon it and be healed. Now it is true that centuries later King Hezekiah destroyed it; however, this action was done because the people worshipped it as a god (2 Kings 18:4). In the Gospel, Jesus compared Himself to the bronze serpent (John 3:14). Continuing in the Old Testament, the inner sanctuary of the Temple contained two large statues of angels according to 1 Kings 6:23-28. In the following verses, Solomon also had the walls of the Temple decorated with carved images of angels, palm trees and flowers (1 Kings 6:29ff). During the Babylonian Captivity, Ezekiel had a vision from God about the design of the new Temple. According to Ezekiel 41:17-25, this new Temple contained graven images of angels and palm trees. These passages in the Bible indicate that God does not forbid the making of statues. If God truly condemned the making of graven images in the "Second Commandment", then He must have changed His mind later in the Old Testament.

Citing more contradictions in the Jewish fantasy of racial superiority and a magical skydaddy does nothing to strengthen your those claims

What you're really missing is the fact that when Christ was born so was born a new covenant when He reduced God's Commandments to the Two Great Commandments in Matt. 22:36-40.

No, he didn't dumbass. Everything he taught was already in the OT. The 10C weren't a separate thing, but merely the first ten of many laws in the OT.

Obviously you don't hold a degree in theology.

"'The day will come,' says the Lord, 'when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. . . . But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day,' says the Lord. 'I will put my law in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people'" (Jeremiah 31:31, 33). Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law of Moses (Matthew 5:17) and create a new covenant between God and His people. The old covenant was written in stone, but the new covenant is written on our hearts, made possible only by faith in Christ, who shed His own blood to atone for the sins of the world. Luke 22:20 says, "After supper, [Jesus] took another cup of wine and said, 'This wine is the token of God's new covenant to save you – an agreement sealed with the blood I will pour out for you.'"

 

[Lonestar_logic]

If God simply forbids the making of graven images, then there are problems elsewhere in the Bible. First, in Exodus 25:18-21, God commands Moses to make two statues of angels (cherubim) for the top of the Ark of the Covenant. Later in Numbers 21:8-9, God commands Moses to make a bronze serpent, so that the people who were bitten by snakes could look upon it and be healed. Now it is true that centuries later King Hezekiah destroyed it; however, this action was done because the people worshipped it as a god (2 Kings 18:4). In the Gospel, Jesus compared Himself to the bronze serpent (John 3:14). Continuing in the Old Testament, the inner sanctuary of the Temple contained two large statues of angels according to 1 Kings 6:23-28. In the following verses, Solomon also had the walls of the Temple decorated with carved images of angels, palm trees and flowers (1 Kings 6:29ff). During the Babylonian Captivity, Ezekiel had a vision from God about the design of the new Temple. According to Ezekiel 41:17-25, this new Temple contained graven images of angels and palm trees. These passages in the Bible indicate that God does not forbid the making of statues. If God truly condemned the making of graven images in the "Second Commandment", then He must have changed His mind later in the Old Testament.

Citing more contradictions in the Jewish fantasy of racial superiority and a magical skydaddy does nothing to strengthen your those claims

What you're really missing is the fact that when Christ was born so was born a new covenant when He reduced God's Commandments to the Two Great Commandments in Matt. 22:36-40.

No, he didn't dumbass. Everything he taught was already in the OT. The 10C weren't a separate thing, but merely the first ten of many laws in the OT.

Obviously you don't hold a degree in theology.

"'The day will come,' says the Lord, 'when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. . . . But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day,' says the Lord. 'I will put my law in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people'" (Jeremiah 31:31, 33). Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law of Moses (Matthew 5:17) and create a new covenant between God and His people. The old covenant was written in stone, but the new covenant is written on our hearts, made possible only by faith in Christ, who shed His own blood to atone for the sins of the world. Luke 22:20 says, "After supper, [Jesus] took another cup of wine and said, 'This wine is the token of God's new covenant to save you – an agreement sealed with the blood I will pour out for you.'"

 

[☭proletarian☭]

uke 22:20 says, "After supper, [Jesus] took another cup of wine and said, 'This wine is the token of God's new covenant to save you – an agreement sealed with the blood I will pour out for you.'"

Matthew 26:28 says

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

It is symbolic of eating his very flesh and drinking his very blood- cannibalism and vampirism. It's among the many things proving that Jesus was Satan, a false disciple

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Revelation 22:16,
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you [1] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

2 Peter 1:19,
And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

Recall from Isaiah 14 that the Morning Star is Lucifer

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Revelation 22:16,
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you [1] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

2 Peter 1:19,
And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

Recall from Isaiah 14 that the Morning Star is Lucifer

The term "morning star" comes from the idea that it is a star that is SO bright that it can still be seen in the morning (even with the sun's light coming out).

So that term could refer to anyone.

"when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

In this verse it uses stars (plural) which shows it doesn't have to be just one that is capable of being the "morning star".

Besides the passage you cite in the King James translation, verse 12 reads:

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

 

[keee keee]

good thing the kid didn't draw mohamad with a bomb for his turbin. the school would of chopped off his head instead of an expulsion.

 

[keee keee]

at least the picture of Christ was a white guy or he would of been charged with a hate crime. A perfect reason any sane parent would home school their children!!! NEA teaches the children to be morons and vote for morons!!!!

 

[Emma]

I think the media and the father saw a win-win situation for themselves.
The father gets some attention for the upcoming lawsuit he plans to file and the media saw a way to boost ratings. Neither gave a fuck as to how this media blitz is going to affect the kid.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/curre...ols-rebut-report-on-childs-jesus-drawing.html

Don't bother. It's being ignored. Can't have facts get in the way of a good OUTRAGE!!! session.