Mass Killings: The Blame

[Tommy Tainant]

What is the explanation….seems to be more and more mass killings….

1. Guns???

If guns kill people, I guess pencils misspell words, cars drive drunk, and spoons make people fat.
No….it’s not inanimate objects that are the ultimate cause.

….there were lots of guns in earlier times….the .45 cal handgun was available….it’s called the 1911 because it was developed in 1911…and it has been ubiquitous since World War I.

In the 1990s with a handgun ban in effect, Wash DC had the highest murder rate in Western Civilization, ….and now you can own guns legally, and the homicide rate has declined.



2. Well, there was the St Valentine’s Day Massacre….and the Texas Tower…but, today we have incidents like the school shooting, and I heard on the news that Chicago sends police to funerals, where people are shooting others who they claim caused the the death they were memorializing.

And this….
“6 dead in 'calculated' shooting at backyard party in Pa.”
6 dead in 'calculated' shooting at backyard party in Pa.


It’s practically commonplace today.


But, no… not the availability of guns….it’s the degradation of the culture.

It's something else.....something that didn't begin with the start of this nation.

THE TRUTH IS WIDE OPEN FOR ALL TO SEE:

Blame the guns? Blame the FBI? Better think again.

Parkland Shooting Copycat Threats Result In School Lockdowns, Arrests

All across this country, STUDENTS are making threats against their schools on social media, leaving notes under doors, etc., etc.---- many kids have been arrested. Why would all these kids be doing this?

THE GUNS AREN'T MAKING THEM DO IT.

THE NRA CERTAINLY ISN'T!

What do all these kids HAVE IN COMMON? Are they threatening their parents? The Library? The local movie house? The supermarket or shopping mall?

NO! They are stepping forward with threats against THEIR SCHOOLS. How many are serious and how many are just trying to put a little fear into their school we will never know, but CLEARLY, the government-run PUBLIC SCHOOLS are pissing off a lot of kids to the point of feeling they must take drastic action, up to and occasionally including actually shooting people there with a gun.

UNTIL THAT MATTER IS ADDRESSED, that the PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE CAUSING THIS VIOLENCE and not the weather, not the lunch menu, not this fall's TV schedule, not the NRA or guns themselves, we will NEVER end school shootings.

And the Church shootings? Work mass shootings? Concert mass shootings? We have about ever kinda of shooting you can imagine. And these things are very rare in countries with strong gun control. Go figure.

As already shown in another thread, such shootings are very rare, the total killed are very limited compared to other forms of death and it happens all over the world not using guns much more often than with guns. In every case, there is a feeling of injustice and an overwhelming need for retaliation. With the schools, there is something obviously being done to these kids that greatly drives them all. To the very occasional church, workplace, or concert shooting, it is something else. Those are too infrequent and individualistic to plan ahead for but with the schools, maybe we can slow this stuff down if we get at the root cause: NEED FOR PUBLIC SCHOOL REFORM. Might be worth considering gettimng the government totally out of education! Where is it in the Constitution that the Fed should educate us? They F everything else up.

Very rare? We have mass shootings all the time. Our cops are dying all the time. These things don't happen all the time where they have strong gun control.

Then why don't you move there if you think it's so good there? To you, "strong gun control" means only one thing: take away the 2nd Amendment.

Why do you argue against facts and common sense ?

 

[Kat]

What is the explanation….seems to be more and more mass killings….

1. Guns???

If guns kill people, I guess pencils misspell words, cars drive drunk, and spoons make people fat.
No….it’s not inanimate objects that are the ultimate cause.

….there were lots of guns in earlier times….the .45 cal handgun was available….it’s called the 1911 because it was developed in 1911…and it has been ubiquitous since World War I.

In the 1990s with a handgun ban in effect, Wash DC had the highest murder rate in Western Civilization, ….and now you can own guns legally, and the homicide rate has declined.



2. Well, there was the St Valentine’s Day Massacre….and the Texas Tower…but, today we have incidents like the school shooting, and I heard on the news that Chicago sends police to funerals, where people are shooting others who they claim caused the the death they were memorializing.

And this….
“6 dead in 'calculated' shooting at backyard party in Pa.”
6 dead in 'calculated' shooting at backyard party in Pa.


It’s practically commonplace today.


But, no… not the availability of guns….it’s the degradation of the culture.

It's something else.....something that didn't begin with the start of this nation.

THE TRUTH IS WIDE OPEN FOR ALL TO SEE:

Blame the guns? Blame the FBI? Better think again.

Parkland Shooting Copycat Threats Result In School Lockdowns, Arrests

All across this country, STUDENTS are making threats against their schools on social media, leaving notes under doors, etc., etc.---- many kids have been arrested. Why would all these kids be doing this?

THE GUNS AREN'T MAKING THEM DO IT.

THE NRA CERTAINLY ISN'T!

What do all these kids HAVE IN COMMON? Are they threatening their parents? The Library? The local movie house? The supermarket or shopping mall?

NO! They are stepping forward with threats against THEIR SCHOOLS. How many are serious and how many are just trying to put a little fear into their school we will never know, but CLEARLY, the government-run PUBLIC SCHOOLS are pissing off a lot of kids to the point of feeling they must take drastic action, up to and occasionally including actually shooting people there with a gun.

UNTIL THAT MATTER IS ADDRESSED, that the PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE CAUSING THIS VIOLENCE and not the weather, not the lunch menu, not this fall's TV schedule, not the NRA or guns themselves, we will NEVER end school shootings.

And the Church shootings? Work mass shootings? Concert mass shootings? We have about ever kinda of shooting you can imagine. And these things are very rare in countries with strong gun control. Go figure.

Nothing can be done says the only country in which this happens.

Not your country, so stop worrying about it, and deal with your own. Or are there no issues in your country? (yeah right)

You are a moderator on a board that has forums for pretty much every subject and country. Are you really trying to silence me ?

Absolutely not. And I did not post as a Moderator. I do have the right to do so, you know. Or are you trying to silence me?

 

[toobfreak]

What is the explanation….seems to be more and more mass killings….

1. Guns???

If guns kill people, I guess pencils misspell words, cars drive drunk, and spoons make people fat.
No….it’s not inanimate objects that are the ultimate cause.

….there were lots of guns in earlier times….the .45 cal handgun was available….it’s called the 1911 because it was developed in 1911…and it has been ubiquitous since World War I.

In the 1990s with a handgun ban in effect, Wash DC had the highest murder rate in Western Civilization, ….and now you can own guns legally, and the homicide rate has declined.



2. Well, there was the St Valentine’s Day Massacre….and the Texas Tower…but, today we have incidents like the school shooting, and I heard on the news that Chicago sends police to funerals, where people are shooting others who they claim caused the the death they were memorializing.

And this….
“6 dead in 'calculated' shooting at backyard party in Pa.”
6 dead in 'calculated' shooting at backyard party in Pa.


It’s practically commonplace today.


But, no… not the availability of guns….it’s the degradation of the culture.

It's something else.....something that didn't begin with the start of this nation.

THE TRUTH IS WIDE OPEN FOR ALL TO SEE:

Blame the guns? Blame the FBI? Better think again.

Parkland Shooting Copycat Threats Result In School Lockdowns, Arrests

All across this country, STUDENTS are making threats against their schools on social media, leaving notes under doors, etc., etc.---- many kids have been arrested. Why would all these kids be doing this?

THE GUNS AREN'T MAKING THEM DO IT.

THE NRA CERTAINLY ISN'T!

What do all these kids HAVE IN COMMON? Are they threatening their parents? The Library? The local movie house? The supermarket or shopping mall?

NO! They are stepping forward with threats against THEIR SCHOOLS. How many are serious and how many are just trying to put a little fear into their school we will never know, but CLEARLY, the government-run PUBLIC SCHOOLS are pissing off a lot of kids to the point of feeling they must take drastic action, up to and occasionally including actually shooting people there with a gun.

UNTIL THAT MATTER IS ADDRESSED, that the PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE CAUSING THIS VIOLENCE and not the weather, not the lunch menu, not this fall's TV schedule, not the NRA or guns themselves, we will NEVER end school shootings.

And the Church shootings? Work mass shootings? Concert mass shootings? We have about ever kinda of shooting you can imagine. And these things are very rare in countries with strong gun control. Go figure.

Nothing can be done says the only country in which this happens.

Not your country, so stop worrying about it, and deal with your own. Or are there no issues in your country? (yeah right)

You are a moderator on a board that has forums for pretty much every subject and country. Are you really trying to silence me ?

I think what she's trying to get through your head Moron is that just because something might work on the other side of the world in a tiny country with a totally different history and culture DOES NOT MEAN IT WOULD WORK THE SAME WAY HERE. So quit telling us about other countries for what is to us a NATIONAL ISSUE. America is a nation of freedoms, and the right to keep and bear arms is the cornerstone of our rights and that isn't going to change. Get over it. RESPONSIBLE people don't go shooting others so the obvious problem here are the number of IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE and taking guns out of their hands won't MAKE them responsible, it'll just make them look for a new way to kill others.

 

[Coyote]

Guns make it easier to kill a whole lot of people very fast.

 

[Coyote]

THE TRUTH IS WIDE OPEN FOR ALL TO SEE:

Blame the guns? Blame the FBI? Better think again.

Parkland Shooting Copycat Threats Result In School Lockdowns, Arrests

All across this country, STUDENTS are making threats against their schools on social media, leaving notes under doors, etc., etc.---- many kids have been arrested. Why would all these kids be doing this?

THE GUNS AREN'T MAKING THEM DO IT.

THE NRA CERTAINLY ISN'T!

What do all these kids HAVE IN COMMON? Are they threatening their parents? The Library? The local movie house? The supermarket or shopping mall?

NO! They are stepping forward with threats against THEIR SCHOOLS. How many are serious and how many are just trying to put a little fear into their school we will never know, but CLEARLY, the government-run PUBLIC SCHOOLS are pissing off a lot of kids to the point of feeling they must take drastic action, up to and occasionally including actually shooting people there with a gun.

UNTIL THAT MATTER IS ADDRESSED, that the PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE CAUSING THIS VIOLENCE and not the weather, not the lunch menu, not this fall's TV schedule, not the NRA or guns themselves, we will NEVER end school shootings.

And the Church shootings? Work mass shootings? Concert mass shootings? We have about ever kinda of shooting you can imagine. And these things are very rare in countries with strong gun control. Go figure.

Nothing can be done says the only country in which this happens.

Not your country, so stop worrying about it, and deal with your own. Or are there no issues in your country? (yeah right)

You are a moderator on a board that has forums for pretty much every subject and country. Are you really trying to silence me ?

Absolutely not. And I did not post as a Moderator. I do have the right to do so, you know. Or are you trying to silence me?

Mods have every right to post as members...and give their opinions the same as other members

 

[Lastamender]

Guns make it easier to kill a whole lot of people very fast.

Also save a bunch of people very fast.

 

[Coyote]

Guns make it easier to kill a whole lot of people very fast.

Also save a bunch of people very fast.

Doesn't seem to work that way very often...

NRA/Gun Proponent's answer to every mass shooting: more guns, less restriction. We've seen decades of deregulation to what result? Increased mass shootings.

 

[Lastamender]

Guns make it easier to kill a whole lot of people very fast.

Also save a bunch of people very fast.

Doesn't seem to work that way very often...

NRA/Gun Proponent's answer to every mass shooting: more guns, less restriction. We've seen decades of deregulation to what result? Increased mass shootings.

So fuck it when it does? You are letting violence intimidate you. I bet that sounds familiar to you.

 

[Kat]

Guns make it easier to kill a whole lot of people very fast.

Also save a bunch of people very fast.

Doesn't seem to work that way very often...

NRA/Gun Proponent's answer to every mass shooting: more guns, less restriction. We've seen decades of deregulation to what result? Increased mass shootings.

The latest shooting could have been avoided if the ball wasn't dropped. He SAID he was going to do it. Law enforcement were at his residence 39 times! HE killed the people, and yes, some others dropped the ball on him too. What some do not seem to get it that if he didn't have guns, he would have done this with something else if he was going to do it.

 

[Coyote]

Guns make it easier to kill a whole lot of people very fast.

Also save a bunch of people very fast.

Doesn't seem to work that way very often...

NRA/Gun Proponent's answer to every mass shooting: more guns, less restriction. We've seen decades of deregulation to what result? Increased mass shootings.

The latest shooting could have been avoided if the ball wasn't dropped. He SAID he was going to do it. Law enforcement were at his residence 39 times! HE killed the people, and yes, some other dropped the ball on him too. What some do not seem to get it that if he didn't have guns, he would have done this with something else if he was going to do it.

True...but what about the others? If he hadn't had those kind of guns could he have killed as many people as quickly before someone took him down?

The thing is everyone argues as if it's "ban all guns" or "unrestricted guns". Isn't there some common sense gun control measures that might help prevent some of these things? But no one will even consider it because they are stuck on the extremes...

 

[Kat]

Guns make it easier to kill a whole lot of people very fast.

Also save a bunch of people very fast.

Doesn't seem to work that way very often...

NRA/Gun Proponent's answer to every mass shooting: more guns, less restriction. We've seen decades of deregulation to what result? Increased mass shootings.

The latest shooting could have been avoided if the ball wasn't dropped. He SAID he was going to do it. Law enforcement were at his residence 39 times! HE killed the people, and yes, some other dropped the ball on him too. What some do not seem to get it that if he didn't have guns, he would have done this with something else if he was going to do it.

True...but what about the others? If he hadn't had those kind of guns could he have killed as many people as quickly before someone took him down?

The thing is everyone argues as if it's "ban all guns" or "unrestricted guns". Isn't there some common sense gun control measures that might help prevent some of these things? But no one will even consider it because they are stuck on the extremes...

I can agree with that. We do need common ground and some viable solutions. Not just the 2 extremes.
I am not sure how to solve things to be honest.

As for banning all guns, the ones that really want them will still get them. This is a catch 22 at best IMO.
I do not think this country will ever ban guns, and I believe in the "right to bear", but somewhere along the line there has to be some sort of responsibility. That guy did the killing. HE is responsible for it...not the NRA IMO. Matters not if it was 2 or 22. He murdered. That is where you start.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Guns make it easier to kill a whole lot of people very fast.

Also save a bunch of people very fast.

Doesn't seem to work that way very often...

NRA/Gun Proponent's answer to every mass shooting: more guns, less restriction. We've seen decades of deregulation to what result? Increased mass shootings.

The latest shooting could have been avoided if the ball wasn't dropped. He SAID he was going to do it. Law enforcement were at his residence 39 times! HE killed the people, and yes, some others dropped the ball on him too. What some do not seem to get it that if he didn't have guns, he would have done this with something else if he was going to do it.

Nonsense. for that to be true we would see school slaughters in every country in the civilised world. Access to machine guns is the difference.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Guns make it easier to kill a whole lot of people very fast.

Also save a bunch of people very fast.

Doesn't seem to work that way very often...

NRA/Gun Proponent's answer to every mass shooting: more guns, less restriction. We've seen decades of deregulation to what result? Increased mass shootings.

The latest shooting could have been avoided if the ball wasn't dropped. He SAID he was going to do it. Law enforcement were at his residence 39 times! HE killed the people, and yes, some other dropped the ball on him too. What some do not seem to get it that if he didn't have guns, he would have done this with something else if he was going to do it.

True...but what about the others? If he hadn't had those kind of guns could he have killed as many people as quickly before someone took him down?

The thing is everyone argues as if it's "ban all guns" or "unrestricted guns". Isn't there some common sense gun control measures that might help prevent some of these things? But no one will even consider it because they are stuck on the extremes...

Where would illegal guns fit in that? If peoples want a gun they will get a gun, it is not difficult to get a gun on the Black Market.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Guns make it easier to kill a whole lot of people very fast.

Also save a bunch of people very fast.

Doesn't seem to work that way very often...

NRA/Gun Proponent's answer to every mass shooting: more guns, less restriction. We've seen decades of deregulation to what result? Increased mass shootings.

The only way to prevent maniacs going into a school and doing a gun massacre is to have hardcore security in ALL American schools, to have at least two of the existing school security armed and to allow the teachers also to be armed that in all classes the teachers have fast access to a gun in the event of some situation where the school security is taken down by immediate rapid fire BEFORE they can react and so security is breeched and the maniac is IN the school and on the hunt for students to kill and then a teacher can just take him down and this avoids a massacre.

In that school in Florida that security guard or whatever he was who first attempted to stop the maniac he was NOT armed, he was the first to die, IF he had of been armed he would have prevented the school massacre because instead of attempting to just fight down the maniac he could have shot the POS in the head and then there would not have been 17 dead students and he himself would also still be alive.

Because you know EVEN IF you ban assault weapons, if they WANT to kill they will get what they NEED to kill and they will buy an assault weapon on the Black Market. The solution to a problem is never to ban, look how well Prohibition did NOT work in America, alcohol was illegal to buy so they had the Speak Easy things and Bootlegging illegal booze and the result was Prohibition created MORE ALCOHOLICS than you had pre-Prohibition and you had MORE illegal booze in circulation than you had legal booze in circulation pre-Prohibition.

 

[Staidhup]

This has nothing to do with guns and all to do with society. So where was the catch net? The school, counselors, fellow students, FBI, all knew this person was in deep trouble, yet no one did anything, finally the twig snapped. He was crying out for attention and those that could have helped swept him under the rug. So who is to blame, a tool, in this case a gun, or society and all its programs and failed policies enacted to prevent this from happening.

 

[Rustic]

I only state facts.

You post selective facts which, on reflection, look ridiculous.

Disprove them because frankly you don't have any credibility. Your word (like everyone else's) is shit.

And during this so called Golden Age you shot two Kennedys,MLK,Reagan and John Lennon

10. Before Liberals/Democrats controlled what we call ‘the culture,’ we lived “in a time in America when right and wrong was more starkly defined, where expectations about behavior were clear, and wickedness hadn’t been normalized.


Those who have been so busy destroying the moral backstops in our culture won’t want to have this conversation. They’ll do what they do -- mock the truth.

Even thirty years ago, the culture still had invisible restraints developed over centuries. Those restraints, those leveling commonalities, were the target of a half-century of attack by the freewheeling counterculture that has now become the dominant replacement culture.

The high school kids who shot rifles in school in 1985 were taught right and wrong. They were taught what to do with their rifle in school, and what not to do. If they got out of line, all the other students and the coach would have come down on them hard. There were no safe spaces, and that was a good thing.

Culture is a powerful force for good. When good behavior is normalized and deviant destructive behavior is ostracized, shamed, and marginalized, you get more good behavior.” Flashback 30 Years: When Guns Were in Schools ... and Nothing Happened




"...the culture still had invisible restraints developed over centuries."

David Mamet put it this way:
" This is the great contribution of our Judeo-Christian foundation to Western civilization. The principles of justice are laid down in the Torah and the Gospels, and implemented through human actions memorialized in judicial codes.

The written laws and rules are codifications of the unwritten ones worked out over millennia as the result of human interactions and experience."


Bolsheviks, Liberals, Socialists....destroyed this.

And during this so called Golden Age you shot two Kennedys,MLK,Reagan and John Lennon. America was born out of gun violence, the legacy continues to this day.

All along bailing everybody else out of their own shit... lol

You mean like Vietnam and Chile ? Oh dear.

Two world wars come to mind

 

[Rustic]

Guns make it easier to kill a whole lot of people very fast.

So does a bomb, van, truck, etc. so Shut the fuck up...

 

[Rustic]

Guns make it easier to kill a whole lot of people very fast.

Also save a bunch of people very fast.

Doesn't seem to work that way very often...

NRA/Gun Proponent's answer to every mass shooting: more guns, less restriction. We've seen decades of deregulation to what result? Increased mass shootings.

Only in your opinion, People kill people not firearms dumbass

 

[Rustic]

Guns make it easier to kill a whole lot of people very fast.

Also save a bunch of people very fast.

Doesn't seem to work that way very often...

NRA/Gun Proponent's answer to every mass shooting: more guns, less restriction. We've seen decades of deregulation to what result? Increased mass shootings.

The latest shooting could have been avoided if the ball wasn't dropped. He SAID he was going to do it. Law enforcement were at his residence 39 times! HE killed the people, and yes, some other dropped the ball on him too. What some do not seem to get it that if he didn't have guns, he would have done this with something else if he was going to do it.

True...but what about the others? If he hadn't had those kind of guns could he have killed as many people as quickly before someone took him down?

The thing is everyone argues as if it's "ban all guns" or "unrestricted guns". Isn't there some common sense gun control measures that might help prevent some of these things? But no one will even consider it because they are stuck on the extremes...

First of all you are full of shit and have no credibility, You have no knowledge of anything about firearms. So you should shut the fuck up about it. Gun control is all about control and nothing to do with guns

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

This has nothing to do with guns and all to do with society. So where was the catch net? The school, counselors, fellow students, FBI, all knew this person was in deep trouble, yet no one did anything, finally the twig snapped. He was crying out for attention and those that could have helped swept him under the rug. So who is to blame, a tool, in this case a gun, or society and all its programs and failed policies enacted to prevent this from happening.

You are correct they focus completely on the gun and ignore the root cause of most of these happenings, many of these shooters have mental health problems, many also are on the wrong type of medication, the mental health system not just in America but in a lot of Western nations needs to be better structured and also society in general needs to become more aware of mental health in general there is massive ignorance about this issue.