Mass Shooting At A Fort Myers Nightclub

[2aguy]

The only thing that will reduce gun crime without curbing the rights of everyone are draconian sentences for gun crimes

All gun crimes should be made a federal offense with a minimum 25 year sentence with no parole

You are assuming that everyone who commits gun crime is already an x-con then, I take it.

Because anyone can still commit their first gun crime and with an endgame including suicide of some kind not mattering what the sentence for the gun crime is. This is what the wacko Islamic couple in San Bernardino did. No laws could have stopped them.

I do agree that certain felons need to stay in prison and spend the rest of their lives there.

But then we are going to need to vote more taxes for more prisons and more prison guards too.

California has already experienced prison overcrowding resulting from its own 3 strike policy.

90% of gun murderers have prior police records...it isn't normal law abiding people doing the shooting.

 

[2aguy]

Mass Shooting In Florida Nightclub - Report

Oh wait, it's in Florida which already has loads of guns.....

After spending days telling the Germans they are wrong for having strict gun control...... the right will probably give their reasons why there should be MORE guns.... right?

The United States provides the right for citizens to have guns. This is not going away. The debate should be about access, liscensing, and getting rid of selling guns in a parking lot; with the aim to keep guns out of criminals hands and allow them to remain in lawful citizens hands.

The debate can be about many things. About the impact of guns on society, which the right generally try and ignore. Why shouldn't people look for the root cause of problems and change the Constitution if they think it's wrong?

The root cause of gun crime is not the second amendment

so changing it will not stop gun crimes

Firstly, I didn't say the 2A was the root cause of gun crime.

Changing it might have an impact however, depending on other stuff.

I've always said the US needs to change the way it goes about things, and the main change is how people vote. However, like I said, people might look at the root causes and see that guns in society don't necessarily make society safer.

If the US has 4 times more murders than European countries, then there are lots of issues around this. But the US doesn't want to change, so people will die.

At the same time the right will spend their whole time making sure nothing changes.

And you are wrong...gun ownership has gone up...not down and our gun murder rate went down.....so guns did not increase violent crime or gun murder...you are wrong....

 

[2aguy]

The only thing that will reduce gun crime without curbing the rights of everyone are draconian sentences for gun crimes

All gun crimes should be made a federal offense with a minimum 25 year sentence with no parole

Really? Locking people up works does it? That's why Louisiana is a crime free paradise? Why the US has the 2nd largest per capita prison population but a murder rate 4 times that of other first world countries and it doesn't have a lower violent crime rate either....

I know you're wrong.

Felons caught with guns spend less than 3 years in prison.....they are the ones who get out and commit gun murder........prosecutors and judges do not take gun criminals seriously.....why that is...racism.....any attempt to increase the sentences for gun crime is stopp d by democrats who say it will disproportionately affect black men...so we have low sent ncis for felons caught with illegal guns...

 

[frigidweirdo]

Mass Shooting In Florida Nightclub - Report

Oh wait, it's in Florida which already has loads of guns.....

After spending days telling the Germans they are wrong for having strict gun control...... the right will probably give their reasons why there should be MORE guns.... right?

Blacks shoot up a nightclub every Friday.....and have been doing this for 50 years. This is not news.

Maybe not. I'm not making news, I'm making discussion based on what's been happening in Germany and the response to this on this board compared to the response when something happens in the US.

Black person kills a dozen people - whatever
Muslim kills a dozen people -ban muslims, bomb them, destroy them.

I just don't see any consistency.

Muslims seem to get more press, so of course. Blacks do this all the time, but out of sight, out of mind. However, they're shooting game cops now, not just each other, so maybe they'll get the press they deserve.

But then people don't see all of this from one perspective. They pick and choose to suit their needs and desires. It happens so much on a forum like this, trying to get people to actually use the same logic for two different things is almost impossible.

 

[OKTexas]

It was in the parking lot, not the club. It was teen night so most likely gang related. Isn't it already illegal for teens to have guns? Go figure, a criminal ignoring laws, who'd have thunk?

Teens can't have guns and individuals with criminal records can't have guns either.........all of the gun control in Germany didn't stop the under age kid with a history of psychiatric treatment from getting his illegal gun....he got it on the dark web........he killed 9... These gnat bangers killed 2.......

The guy no Nice...killed 84.... With a truck.

Seems like I said that already, trucks can be very effective in the right circumstances.

 

[2aguy]

...

I've always said the US needs to change the way it goes about things, and the main change is how people vote. However, like I said, people might look at the root causes and see that guns in society don't necessarily make society safer.

If the US has 4 times more murders than European countries, then there are lots of issues around this. But the US doesn't want to change, so people will die.

At the same time the right will spend their whole time making sure nothing changes.

The UK has already shown that if you don't have guns in your society then crime will not change, the crime will simply become knife crime, like it is there.

As for trying to be safe in a knife crime environment, you still need to do all the things you need to do in a gun crime environment -- be aware, don't go out at nite alone, stay in a group, etc.

You then must also carry your own knife, preferably a bigger knife than usual, and you must know how to fight with it.

By the way the best way to learn how to fight with knives is to take sword fencing classes. That way you learn all the parries, thrusts, and cuts.

Actually...their gun crime rate stayed the same too..it didn't go down...in fact..it went up 4% last year...their violent crime rate went up 27%.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Mass Shooting In Florida Nightclub - Report

Oh wait, it's in Florida which already has loads of guns.....

After spending days telling the Germans they are wrong for having strict gun control...... the right will probably give their reasons why there should be MORE guns.... right?

Oh look, most likely gang related. Yes, by all means lets take guns form the hands of the 90 million who don't commit crimes, so that the 1000 or so who do use them can have an easier time of it. The German shooter had no problem getting a gun so it will certainly work here

The German shooter spent a year preparing this, and yes, he got a gun. But still, he'd have had to kill 2,000 people to get murder rates on par with the USA.

It's amazing how people ignore this sort of fact, the US has a murder rate FOUR TIMES HIGHER than almost every other first world country. You're 4 times more likely to die with a gun in your hand than without.

 

[2aguy]

Mass Shooting In Florida Nightclub - Report

Oh wait, it's in Florida which already has loads of guns.....

After spending days telling the Germans they are wrong for having strict gun control...... the right will probably give their reasons why there should be MORE guns.... right?

The United States provides the right for citizens to have guns. This is not going away. The debate should be about access, liscensing, and getting rid of selling guns in a parking lot; with the aim to keep guns out of criminals hands and allow them to remain in lawful citizens hands.

How do you propose to keep guns out of the hands of criminals? You understand that was the rationale for the 1968 Gun Control Act, right? And that it is obviously a tremendous failure. So what measure do you think will keep criminals from breaking the law?

I am on your side first of all and do not want to ban guns that are legal now. What I would like to see is private sales in parking lots banned throughout the US. I would like all sales to be through a state licensed gun shop with a background check. Any fees should be minimal and waived if a transfer between family members.

Please explain how that stops straw buyers....or people who don't care about the law?

 

[2aguy]

Mass Shooting In Florida Nightclub - Report

Oh wait, it's in Florida which already has loads of guns.....

After spending days telling the Germans they are wrong for having strict gun control...... the right will probably give their reasons why there should be MORE guns.... right?

Oh look, most likely gang related. Yes, by all means lets take guns form the hands of the 90 million who don't commit crimes, so that the 1000 or so who do use them can have an easier time of it. The German shooter had no problem getting a gun so it will certainly work here

The German shooter spent a year preparing this, and yes, he got a gun. But still, he'd have had to kill 2,000 people to get murder rates on par with the USA.

It's amazing how people ignore this sort of fact, the US has a murder rate FOUR TIMES HIGHER than almost every other first world country. You're 4 times more likely to die with a gun in your hand than without.

And it has nothing to do with gun access.....Germany has about the same number of guns in private hands as France...and about 5 times the gun murder rate...how do explain that with your theory.....?

Guns are not the issue...the criminals using the guns and their willingness to commit murder is.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Mass Shooting In Florida Nightclub - Report

Oh wait, it's in Florida which already has loads of guns.....

After spending days telling the Germans they are wrong for having strict gun control...... the right will probably give their reasons why there should be MORE guns.... right?

Concealed Carrier Defends Five of His Friends From Armed Robber

 

[blastoff]

Gang thing? A relative of mine from Fort Myers said the town next to them has shootings every day. Keep us posted, will you?

I think, it is safe to assume that it was not a gang related shooting. At this point the cops are tight lipped about the "person of interest" in custody.

"While police are still investigating the incident, authorities told Fox News that the shooting was "definitely not terrorism" and likely gang-related. A resident of the neighborhood where Club Blu is located told the New York Times that drug dealing and shootings mar the area."

Oh, this is really going to disappoint the Trumpettes on this board...

Well for sure the Black Lives Matter folks won't give a shit.

 

[OKTexas]

...

I've always said the US needs to change the way it goes about things, and the main change is how people vote. However, like I said, people might look at the root causes and see that guns in society don't necessarily make society safer.

If the US has 4 times more murders than European countries, then there are lots of issues around this. But the US doesn't want to change, so people will die.

At the same time the right will spend their whole time making sure nothing changes.

The UK has already shown that if you don't have guns in your society then crime will not change, the crime will simply become knife crime, like it is there.

As for trying to be safe in a knife crime environment, you still need to do all the things you need to do in a gun crime environment -- be aware, don't go out at nite alone, stay in a group, etc.

You then must also carry your own knife, preferably a bigger knife than usual, and you must know how to fight with it.

By the way the best way to learn how to fight with knives is to take sword fencing classes. That way you learn all the parries, thrusts, and cuts.

Actually...their gun crime rate stayed the same too..it didn't go down...in fact..it went up 4% last year...their violent crime rate went up 27%.

And with all the dregs they're importing it will continue to go up.

 

[2aguy]

...

I've always said the US needs to change the way it goes about things, and the main change is how people vote. However, like I said, people might look at the root causes and see that guns in society don't necessarily make society safer.

If the US has 4 times more murders than European countries, then there are lots of issues around this. But the US doesn't want to change, so people will die.

At the same time the right will spend their whole time making sure nothing changes.

The UK has already shown that if you don't have guns in your society then crime will not change, the crime will simply become knife crime, like it is there.

As for trying to be safe in a knife crime environment, you still need to do all the things you need to do in a gun crime environment -- be aware, don't go out at nite alone, stay in a group, etc.

You then must also carry your own knife, preferably a bigger knife than usual, and you must know how to fight with it.

By the way the best way to learn how to fight with knives is to take sword fencing classes. That way you learn all the parries, thrusts, and cuts.

But then again the UK has shown that it has a murder rate 1/4 that of the US!

Their gun murder rate..and their over all murder rate has always been lower than our rates...our non gun murder rate is higher than their total murder rate...


Guns have nothing to do with it.....criminal willingness to murder does....


Yes...and their gun crime rate never changed...please explain how that is possible under your theory........in fact....their gun crime rate went up 4% last year...explain that...

 

[2aguy]

Mass Shooting In Florida Nightclub - Report

Oh wait, it's in Florida which already has loads of guns.....

After spending days telling the Germans they are wrong for having strict gun control...... the right will probably give their reasons why there should be MORE guns.... right?

1 - there are not enough police to protect you everywhere and at all times (a priori).

2 - if you want to be protected you need to protect yourself (a posteriori).

3 - to protect yourself against a gun you need a better gun and you need to be a better shot (a priori).

4 - to be a better shot you need to practice (a priori).

5 - to practice you need a gun (a prior).

6 - ergo everybody needs a gun (a posteriori).

A priori means self evident.

A posteriori means logically deduced.

No, there aren't enough police. However you're more likely to die in the US where you can get a gun, than Germany where you can't.

So, it's a choice isn't it? A choice between a safer society or a more dangerous society. You may get the chance to protect yourself more in the more dangerous society, but you're more likely to be confronted by people with guns.

The solution is dealing with the people that refuse to conform to social norms, I've owned guns of various types for 62 years, they have harmed no one.

You, me and 99.99% of all gun owners

Draconian punishment is the best way to deal with criminals the hell with this rehabilitation shit

And you're still wrong and the FACTS prove you wrong.

No..th facts show you are wrong on everything you are saying...actual facts.

 

[2aguy]

Mass Shooting In Florida Nightclub - Report

Oh wait, it's in Florida which already has loads of guns.....

After spending days telling the Germans they are wrong for having strict gun control...... the right will probably give their reasons why there should be MORE guns.... right?

The United States provides the right for citizens to have guns. This is not going away. The debate should be about access, liscensing, and getting rid of selling guns in a parking lot; with the aim to keep guns out of criminals hands and allow them to remain in lawful citizens hands.

How do you propose to keep guns out of the hands of criminals? You understand that was the rationale for the 1968 Gun Control Act, right? And that it is obviously a tremendous failure. So what measure do you think will keep criminals from breaking the law?

I am on your side first of all and do not want to ban guns that are legal now. What I would like to see is private sales in parking lots banned throughout the US. I would like all sales to be through a state licensed gun shop with a background check. Any fees should be minimal and waived if a transfer between family members.

How will that stop criminals getting guns? Please be specific.

It will not. There is no govt restriction that will completely, and that is a good reason why we all should be able to bear arms. That said I don't think having to sell your gun through a licensed shop is too much of a burden to gun owners, and would likely stop some of them getting into the wrong hands. It makes it easy to trace guns to illegal transfers.

It does nothing to stop straw buying....so there is no reason to do it....

 

[OKTexas]

Mass Shooting In Florida Nightclub - Report

Oh wait, it's in Florida which already has loads of guns.....

After spending days telling the Germans they are wrong for having strict gun control...... the right will probably give their reasons why there should be MORE guns.... right?

Concealed Carrier Defends Five of His Friends From Armed Robber

Damn shame he didn't kill the SOB.

 

[2aguy]

...

I've always said the US needs to change the way it goes about things, and the main change is how people vote. However, like I said, people might look at the root causes and see that guns in society don't necessarily make society safer.

If the US has 4 times more murders than European countries, then there are lots of issues around this. But the US doesn't want to change, so people will die.

At the same time the right will spend their whole time making sure nothing changes.

The UK has already shown that if you don't have guns in your society then crime will not change, the crime will simply become knife crime, like it is there.

As for trying to be safe in a knife crime environment, you still need to do all the things you need to do in a gun crime environment -- be aware, don't go out at nite alone, stay in a group, etc.

You then must also carry your own knife, preferably a bigger knife than usual, and you must know how to fight with it.

By the way the best way to learn how to fight with knives is to take sword fencing classes. That way you learn all the parries, thrusts, and cuts.

But then again the UK has shown that it has a murder rate 1/4 that of the US!

The UK has always has a lower murder rate

In fact the murder rte in the UK has increased from what it was in 1950
And the murder rate in the US is virtually the same as it was in 1950

Homicide Rate (per 100,000), 1950–2014
List of countries by intentional homicide rate by decade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SO over 6 decades the murder rate in our country has risen and declined to the same rate
In UK the country gun control nuts like to use as an example in the same 60 year period the murder rte has risen and declined but now remains higher than it was 60 years ago

And that is after the UK passed the 1968 gun control laws

SO there seems to be other forces at work and not just gun ownership

But if I say there are cultural and demographic differences between the US and the UK I will undoubtedly be called a racist

And after they actually confiscated guns in 1996..........

 

[2aguy]

How do you propose to keep guns out of the hands of criminals? You understand that was the rationale for the 1968 Gun Control Act, right? And that it is obviously a tremendous failure. So what measure do you think will keep criminals from breaking the law?

I am on your side first of all and do not want to ban guns that are legal now. What I would like to see is private sales in parking lots banned throughout the US. I would like all sales to be through a state licensed gun shop with a background check. Any fees should be minimal and waived if a transfer between family members.

How will that stop criminals getting guns? Please be specific.

It will not. There is no govt restriction that will completely, and that is a good reason why we all should be able to bear arms. That said I don't think having to sell your gun through a licensed shop is too much of a burden to gun owners, and would likely stop some of them getting into the wrong hands. It makes it easy to trace guns to illegal transfers.

Wrong on every count.
Criminals typically steal guns and resell them to other criminals. Nothing you have outlined would stop that and instead burden lawful gun owners.

Dallas shooter Micah Johnson arranged purchase of AK-47 through Facebook
This seller thought the guy was AOK. I'm not saying having to sell at a licensed facility would have stopped this, but it would be a deterrent. You want to sell your gun small $5.00- $10.00 fee (that goes to the gun shop not the state) and you have to sell it at a licensed shop. Fee is waived for transfers between family

You do realize he could have gone to a gun store too..right, he had a clean record..if he bought that on Facebook he just wanted that particular gun......he could have bought a rifle in a gun store too......you have no point...

There is no reason for background checks on private sales......the only reason anti gun activists want them is to get gun registration...that is the only reason to have them.

 

[Jeddahite]

Whatever gun was used in the attack, gun nuts will rush out to buy it before it's banned. And then they'll scream about their 2nd amendment rights (to a well-regulated militia) being abused. If any of these freedom-loving wackos had to be IN a militia and do some weekend warrior training, they'd holler that it took up their beer and baseball time on the couch.

 

[2aguy]

But then again the UK has shown that it has a murder rate 1/4 that of the US!

I don't see that comment as being relevant to the issue.

In the UK you can still be murdered.

And so in the UK you must still defend yourself.

Since guns are essentially prohibited in the UK then you must defend yourself with another weapon.

And even then there is still a possibility that the criminal who assaults has a gun and brought it into the UK from France or Belgium.

Yes, you can still be murdered in the UK. You can be murdered anywhere with any weapon, hands, feet, TV, guns.
Murder will always happen.

You can be murdered with a gun in your hand, with a gun in your holster, if you are an armed police officer, etc etc.

However in the UK you are 4 times less likely to be murdered. You are safer.

You may not be able to defend yourself as effectively without a gun in a comparable situation, however the fact is many situations aren't comparable. In the US you're going to come up against people wielding guns.

Alaska has the highest rape rate in the US, 5 times higher than in NY. But they have laxer guns laws, more guns, etc etc.

How is this the case if guns make you safer?

BRitain has a different criminal culture..that is why they have a different murder rate.........they have a lower gun ownership rate than Framce?.but more gun murder...how do you explain that?