McDonalds Introduces Self Serving Kiosks in Response to Min Wage Increase

[martybegan]

A $15 minimum would increase inflation, and any gap between the wage increase and the inflation increase would be temporary at best.

It's like you think economics is some magic show instead of an actual process of inputs and outputs.

yes, it is in any mixed market economy.

increasing the cost of labor means capital must seek gains from efficiency.

or they raise prices, which is made easier by people making more money, but doesn't lead to an increase in buying POWER.

that is up to them; but, they may have to compete, with Henry Ford imitators.

The current "Henry Ford" concept IS automation..

your point?

the left already has an answer to the right wing, canard, of unemployment.

and what is that? Pay people to do nothing?

 

[danielpalos]

yes, it is in any mixed market economy.

increasing the cost of labor means capital must seek gains from efficiency.

or they raise prices, which is made easier by people making more money, but doesn't lead to an increase in buying POWER.

that is up to them; but, they may have to compete, with Henry Ford imitators.

The current "Henry Ford" concept IS automation..

your point?

the left already has an answer to the right wing, canard, of unemployment.

and what is that? Pay people to do nothing?

hire them, if it, "offends you"; especially in, Right to Work, States.

 

[hadit]

To be serious those have been around in fast food for over 10 years, I highly doubt they will become the norm.

Most people like me don't like them or use them, even in the supermarket self check out.


Let's look at history and human nature this has been around for a 100 years I think and didn't take over

There are so many differences in what was happening in the photo compared to what's happening in FF outlets today it's not even relevant to mix the two.
Literally every one of the food products being sold in the photo were 'pre prepared' items. That's just for starters.
Apples and oranges.

Your not getting my premise, it's the entire thing of people want to interact with a human, fast food kiosk been around for over 10 years plus in this country and have not taken off.

.

Self checkout at the grocery store, self serve gas pumps. Customers adapt to changing situations, and when given a choice, choose the option they want at that time.

Ever order food at a Wawa gas station? Completely automated. In a few decades the fastest and cheapest option will be the kiosk. If you want to interact with a human, you'll pay a premium to do it.

Self checkout at the grocery store,

You just made my point, they didn't take off, go to the store you will see more people waiting in line for the cashier then using self check outs.


.

Nearly every store has them and they ARE being used. Right now, they are best suited for when you want to get a few things and get back to your car, but note this. Those self checkouts replace human workers. Without them, there would be more checkout lanes with paid cashiers swiping items and baggers at the end.

Automation will be used where it makes sense to use it, but to say that it will never replace a human worker is ridiculous. How many people said the same thing when self serve gas pumps came out? "Those stupid machines can't check your oil, tires and water like that teenager can, they'll never take off in a big way. People always want to interact with people when they buy gas."

Within a few decades you'll likely do most routine purchasing at a kiosk and you'll pay a premium to interact with a human.

 

[danielpalos]

i don't mind if we can order our items on our phone and pick up the bagged groceries at the checkout.

 

[hadit]

There are so many differences in what was happening in the photo compared to what's happening in FF outlets today it's not even relevant to mix the two.
Literally every one of the food products being sold in the photo were 'pre prepared' items. That's just for starters.
Apples and oranges.

Your not getting my premise, it's the entire thing of people want to interact with a human, fast food kiosk been around for over 10 years plus in this country and have not taken off.

.

Self checkout at the grocery store, self serve gas pumps. Customers adapt to changing situations, and when given a choice, choose the option they want at that time.

Ever order food at a Wawa gas station? Completely automated. In a few decades the fastest and cheapest option will be the kiosk. If you want to interact with a human, you'll pay a premium to do it.

Self checkout at the grocery store,

You just made my point, they didn't take off, go to the store you will see more people waiting in line for the cashier then using self check outs.


.

They didn't "take off" because back then your average person was used to eating half decent meals prepared at home. That's only one of a hundred reasons.
The number one reason people will go to a regular checkout is if they have a shopping cart full of items. They aren't going to stand at a self checkout and scan a hundred items! AND have to bag them. And have to deal with the machine that won't accept paper money which has a crease in it.
Studies have proven that customers with less than five items use self checkouts.
The proof is obvious.
Anyone who has ever lined up at a regular check-out with five items in a basket and is stuck behind three customers with full shopping carts is going to be looking for the self checkout aisle.
Simple logic.

Anyone who has ever lined up at a regular check-out with five items in a basket and is stuck behind three customers with full shopping carts is going to be looking for the self checkout aisle

I don't know what world you live in, but mine people are polite down here in South Carolina and let me go ahead.

It's only a matter of time.

 

[Winston]

resistance is Not futile, if wages outpace inflation. a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage can make that happen.

A $15 minimum would increase inflation, and any gap between the wage increase and the inflation increase would be temporary at best.

It's like you think economics is some magic show instead of an actual process of inputs and outputs.

yes, it is in any mixed market economy.

increasing the cost of labor means capital must seek gains from efficiency.

or they raise prices, which is made easier by people making more money, but doesn't lead t"o an increase in buying POWER.

that is up to them; but, they may have to compete, with Henry Ford imitators.

The current "Henry Ford" concept IS automation..

No, Henry Ford utilized the specialization of labor, a concept that was first addressed by Plato. But Ford was a Georgist, he understood Adam Smith and economic rent, which is why he utilized his knowledge of Marx and his arguments against the specialization of labor, and offered high compensation to offset employee disappoint and unrest due to consistently repeated actions. The very "spiritual and physical depression" that Marx had addressed.

No question here. Henry Ford would be an advocate of a fifteen dollar minimum wage. He would be absolutely horrified at the structure of the McDonald's organization and it's efficient extraction of economic rent from multiple sectors of the US economy.

 

[martybegan]

or they raise prices, which is made easier by people making more money, but doesn't lead to an increase in buying POWER.

that is up to them; but, they may have to compete, with Henry Ford imitators.

The current "Henry Ford" concept IS automation..

your point?

the left already has an answer to the right wing, canard, of unemployment.

and what is that? Pay people to do nothing?

hire them, if it, "offends you"; especially in, Right to Work, States.

why hire them if the labor they produce is not economically justified by the minimum pay mandated by the government?

 

[hadit]

yes, it is in any mixed market economy.

increasing the cost of labor means capital must seek gains from efficiency.

or they raise prices, which is made easier by people making more money, but doesn't lead to an increase in buying POWER.

that is up to them; but, they may have to compete, with Henry Ford imitators.

The current "Henry Ford" concept IS automation..

your point?

the left already has an answer to the right wing, canard, of unemployment.

and what is that? Pay people to do nothing?

That is precisely what he wants. That and legal pot. See where this is going?

 

[hadit]

that is up to them; but, they may have to compete, with Henry Ford imitators.

The current "Henry Ford" concept IS automation..

your point?

the left already has an answer to the right wing, canard, of unemployment.

and what is that? Pay people to do nothing?

hire them, if it, "offends you"; especially in, Right to Work, States.

why hire them if the labor they produce is not economically justified by the minimum pay mandated by the government?

That's his point. He doesn't want them to be hired and actually work, he just wants them to be paid, basically turning businesses into welfare distribution centers.

 

[martybegan]

A $15 minimum would increase inflation, and any gap between the wage increase and the inflation increase would be temporary at best.

It's like you think economics is some magic show instead of an actual process of inputs and outputs.

yes, it is in any mixed market economy.

increasing the cost of labor means capital must seek gains from efficiency.

or they raise prices, which is made easier by people making more money, but doesn't lead t"o an increase in buying POWER.

that is up to them; but, they may have to compete, with Henry Ford imitators.

The current "Henry Ford" concept IS automation..

No, Henry Ford utilized the specialization of labor, a concept that was first addressed by Plato. But Ford was a Georgist, he understood Adam Smith and economic rent, which is why he utilized his knowledge of Marx and his arguments against the specialization of labor, and offered high compensation to offset employee disappoint and unrest due to consistently repeated actions. The very "spiritual and physical depression" that Marx had addressed.

No question here. Henry Ford would be an advocate of a fifteen dollar minimum wage. He would be absolutely horrified at the structure of the McDonald's organization and it's efficient extraction of economic rent from multiple sectors of the US economy.

He would also still be railing against the Jews.

Ford made a product people could afford, using low skilled labor that he paid well, but that he was not forced to pay more than they were worth.

The issue isn't businesspeople deciding to spend more on labor to get loyalty/productivity, the issue is government mandating that they do without any guarantees of a better return on their labor investment.

 

[danielpalos]

that is up to them; but, they may have to compete, with Henry Ford imitators.

The current "Henry Ford" concept IS automation..

your point?

the left already has an answer to the right wing, canard, of unemployment.

and what is that? Pay people to do nothing?

hire them, if it, "offends you"; especially in, Right to Work, States.

why hire them if the labor they produce is not economically justified by the minimum pay mandated by the government?

the left already has an answer to the right wing, canard, of unemployment.

 

[martybegan]

The current "Henry Ford" concept IS automation..

your point?

the left already has an answer to the right wing, canard, of unemployment.

and what is that? Pay people to do nothing?

hire them, if it, "offends you"; especially in, Right to Work, States.

why hire them if the labor they produce is not economically justified by the minimum pay mandated by the government?

the left already has an answer to the right wing, canard, of unemployment.

"something i made up and think may work" is not an answer.

 

[Wyatt earp]

To be serious those have been around in fast food for over 10 years, I highly doubt they will become the norm.

Most people like me don't like them or use them, even in the supermarket self check out.


Let's look at history and human nature this has been around for a 100 years I think and didn't take over

There are so many differences in what was happening in the photo compared to what's happening in FF outlets today it's not even relevant to mix the two.
Literally every one of the food products being sold in the photo were 'pre prepared' items. That's just for starters.
Apples and oranges.

Your not getting my premise, it's the entire thing of people want to interact with a human, fast food kiosk been around for over 10 years plus in this country and have not taken off.

.

Self checkout at the grocery store, self serve gas pumps. Customers adapt to changing situations, and when given a choice, choose the option they want at that time.

Ever order food at a Wawa gas station? Completely automated. In a few decades the fastest and cheapest option will be the kiosk. If you want to interact with a human, you'll pay a premium to do it.

Self checkout at the grocery store,

You just made my point, they didn't take off, go to the store you will see more people waiting in line for the cashier then using self check outs.


.

Nearly every store has them and they ARE being used. Right now, they are best suited for when you want to get a few things and get back to your car, but note this. Those self checkouts replace human workers. Without them, there would be more checkout lanes with paid cashiers swiping items and baggers at the end.

Automation will be used where it makes sense to use it, but to say that it will never replace a human worker is ridiculous. How many people said the same thing when self serve gas pumps came out? "Those stupid machines can't check your oil, tires and water like that teenager can, they'll never take off in a big way. People always want to interact with people when they buy gas."

Within a few decades you'll likely do most routine purchasing at a kiosk and you'll pay a premium to interact with a human.

You are hard headed are you not?

Again the self service has been around for over 100 years
.

 

[danielpalos]

your point?

the left already has an answer to the right wing, canard, of unemployment.

and what is that? Pay people to do nothing?

hire them, if it, "offends you"; especially in, Right to Work, States.

why hire them if the labor they produce is not economically justified by the minimum pay mandated by the government?

the left already has an answer to the right wing, canard, of unemployment.

"something i made up and think may work" is not an answer.

i did not just make it up; unlike the right wing, with nothing but diversion.

we can solve simple poverty on an at-will basis our at-will employment States.

 

[martybegan]

and what is that? Pay people to do nothing?

hire them, if it, "offends you"; especially in, Right to Work, States.

why hire them if the labor they produce is not economically justified by the minimum pay mandated by the government?

the left already has an answer to the right wing, canard, of unemployment.

"something i made up and think may work" is not an answer.

i did not just make it up; unlike the right wing, with nothing but diversion.

we can solve simple poverty on an at-will basis our at-will employment States.

So people work when they feel like it, and if they don't want to, we pay them something?

 

[Winston]

yes, it is in any mixed market economy.

increasing the cost of labor means capital must seek gains from efficiency.

or they raise prices, which is made easier by people making more money, but doesn't lead t"o an increase in buying POWER.

that is up to them; but, they may have to compete, with Henry Ford imitators.

The current "Henry Ford" concept IS automation..

No, Henry Ford utilized the specialization of labor, a concept that was first addressed by Plato. But Ford was a Georgist, he understood Adam Smith and economic rent, which is why he utilized his knowledge of Marx and his arguments against the specialization of labor, and offered high compensation to offset employee disappoint and unrest due to consistently repeated actions. The very "spiritual and physical depression" that Marx had addressed.

No question here. Henry Ford would be an advocate of a fifteen dollar minimum wage. He would be absolutely horrified at the structure of the McDonald's organization and it's efficient extraction of economic rent from multiple sectors of the US economy.

He would also still be railing against the Jews.

Ford made a product people could afford, using low skilled labor that he paid well, but that he was not forced to pay more than they were worth.

The issue isn't businesspeople deciding to spend more on labor to get loyalty/productivity, the issue is government mandating that they do without any guarantees of a better return on their labor investment.

My position is that the minimum wage, in no way, reflects the value of the labor produced by the minimum wage worker. Lots of reasons for that. Doesn't matter. The minimum wage has become a minimum floor in which labor prices are negotiated. When this happens, distortions enter the marketplace, market inefficiencies begin popping up, and we turn a welfare program that was suppose to help the down and out into a program to subsidize the low wages of employers extracting huge amounts of rent from the economy.

I say the minimum wage worker is already producing fifteen dollars worth of value. If he is not, then hell, I want them replaced by a robot. Hell, I don't care if you don't replace them at all. The way I see it, if someone can't produce at least fifteen dollars of value to the economy they should stay the hell at the house and out of the way. It costs more than fifteen dollars an hour worth of infrastructure and resources to get them back and forth to work, let alone what resources they consume when they are there. And that is what a minimum wage is suppose to be. A minimal level of production value society is willing to accept, not the minimum amount an employer wants to pay.

 

[Conservative65]

If you pay someone 7 bucks an hour do you expect good productivity and people to stay? McDonalds doesn't want nor expect good workers to stay. Otherwise they would pay more. Their business model is low wage and expecting little or no productivity. Some companies have to attract the least productive. Pretend to pay me I pretend to work.

When you're forced to pay someone a minimum of $7.25/hour because the federal government mandates it instead of paying based on skills required to do the job, absolutely I expect efficiency. You're already getting paid more than what you offer is worth.

They pay that amount because the job being done requires skills at that amount.

Pretend to work because you don't like what you agreed to work for and that won't be a problem. Someone else will be in your spot either doing the job correctly or they'll be replaced if they have the same attitude. When you offer low skills, don't expect anyone to come knocking on your door.

Only the right wing is that, fantastical.

Your current metrics are based on our current minimum wage.

My current metrics are based on the concept of if you take a job knowing the wage before you take it, do the job to the level it should be done not to the one you decide because you now don't like the pay.

I said nothing of the amount but the concept of doing what you were hired to do to the level you were hired to do it.

 

[Wyatt earp]

or they raise prices, which is made easier by people making more money, but doesn't lead t"o an increase in buying POWER.

that is up to them; but, they may have to compete, with Henry Ford imitators.

The current "Henry Ford" concept IS automation..

No, Henry Ford utilized the specialization of labor, a concept that was first addressed by Plato. But Ford was a Georgist, he understood Adam Smith and economic rent, which is why he utilized his knowledge of Marx and his arguments against the specialization of labor, and offered high compensation to offset employee disappoint and unrest due to consistently repeated actions. The very "spiritual and physical depression" that Marx had addressed.

No question here. Henry Ford would be an advocate of a fifteen dollar minimum wage. He would be absolutely horrified at the structure of the McDonald's organization and it's efficient extraction of economic rent from multiple sectors of the US economy.

He would also still be railing against the Jews.

Ford made a product people could afford, using low skilled labor that he paid well, but that he was not forced to pay more than they were worth.

The issue isn't businesspeople deciding to spend more on labor to get loyalty/productivity, the issue is government mandating that they do without any guarantees of a better return on their labor investment.

My position is that the minimum wage, in no way, reflects the value of the labor produced by the minimum wage worker. Lots of reasons for that. Doesn't matter. The minimum wage has become a minimum floor in which labor prices are negotiated. When this happens, distortions enter the marketplace, market inefficiencies begin popping up, and we turn a welfare program that was suppose to help the down and out into a program to subsidize the low wages of employers extracting huge amounts of rent from the economy.

I say the minimum wage worker is already producing fifteen dollars worth of value. If he is not, then hell, I want them replaced by a robot. Hell, I don't care if you don't replace them at all. The way I see it, if someone can't produce at least fifteen dollars of value to the economy they should stay the hell at the house and out of the way. It costs more than fifteen dollars an hour worth of infrastructure and resources to get them back and forth to work, let alone what resources they consume when they are there. And that is what a minimum wage is suppose to be. A minimal level of production value society is willing to accept, not the minimum amount an employer wants to pay.

level of production value society is willing to accept, not the minimum amount an employerwants to pay.

You thought you could sneak that in you did you?

If they are only producing $5 bucks of goods how can the employer pay them $15 an hour?


.

 

[Winston]

hire them, if it, "offends you"; especially in, Right to Work, States.

why hire them if the labor they produce is not economically justified by the minimum pay mandated by the government?

the left already has an answer to the right wing, canard, of unemployment.

"something i made up and think may work" is not an answer.

i did not just make it up; unlike the right wing, with nothing but diversion.

we can solve simple poverty on an at-will basis our at-will employment States.

So people work when they feel like it, and if they don't want to, we pay them something?

Yep, kind of like that. No food stamps, no welfare, no housing subsidies, no social security, everyone has Medicare. Everyone gets a check. The wealthy get a check, the poor get a check, the elderly get a check, the kids get a check. You can make it on the check, you happy, we all happy. Hell, I hope you can make it on the check.

 

[martybegan]

or they raise prices, which is made easier by people making more money, but doesn't lead t"o an increase in buying POWER.

that is up to them; but, they may have to compete, with Henry Ford imitators.

The current "Henry Ford" concept IS automation..

No, Henry Ford utilized the specialization of labor, a concept that was first addressed by Plato. But Ford was a Georgist, he understood Adam Smith and economic rent, which is why he utilized his knowledge of Marx and his arguments against the specialization of labor, and offered high compensation to offset employee disappoint and unrest due to consistently repeated actions. The very "spiritual and physical depression" that Marx had addressed.

No question here. Henry Ford would be an advocate of a fifteen dollar minimum wage. He would be absolutely horrified at the structure of the McDonald's organization and it's efficient extraction of economic rent from multiple sectors of the US economy.

He would also still be railing against the Jews.

Ford made a product people could afford, using low skilled labor that he paid well, but that he was not forced to pay more than they were worth.

The issue isn't businesspeople deciding to spend more on labor to get loyalty/productivity, the issue is government mandating that they do without any guarantees of a better return on their labor investment.

My position is that the minimum wage, in no way, reflects the value of the labor produced by the minimum wage worker. Lots of reasons for that. Doesn't matter. The minimum wage has become a minimum floor in which labor prices are negotiated. When this happens, distortions enter the marketplace, market inefficiencies begin popping up, and we turn a welfare program that was suppose to help the down and out into a program to subsidize the low wages of employers extracting huge amounts of rent from the economy.

I say the minimum wage worker is already producing fifteen dollars worth of value. If he is not, then hell, I want them replaced by a robot. Hell, I don't care if you don't replace them at all. The way I see it, if someone can't produce at least fifteen dollars of value to the economy they should stay the hell at the house and out of the way. It costs more than fifteen dollars an hour worth of infrastructure and resources to get them back and forth to work, let alone what resources they consume when they are there. And that is what a minimum wage is suppose to be. A minimal level of production value society is willing to accept, not the minimum amount an employer wants to pay.

I say if the minimum wage worker was able to produce $15 an hour of value, they would be working in a job that naturally allowed for a $15 an hour wage. What you are trying to foist on people is a half handed attempt at a living wage, not a minimum wage. The idea that entry level jobs like minimum or near minimum wage ones at fast food places are somehow livable is a fantasy.

The idea is to actually not like making shit wages, and somehow improve your lot in life somehow, anyhow. If we pay people $15 an hour for doing $8 an hour of work, we consign them to be stuck in the same crap job for life, or at least until bleeding hearts start gunning for a $20, then a $30, then a $50 minimum wage.

At that point enjoy your $125 Big Mac with the $75 coke on the side.