McDonalds Introduces Self Serving Kiosks in Response to Min Wage Increase

[martybegan]

I'm calling bullshit.

They would have done the kiosk thing anyway.

How long does it take to design and develop the kiosks and computer programs? How long to install them nationwide?

This has been in the works longer than the call for wage increases.

How do you know? A kid making $8.00 an hour might be cheaper than the infrastructure costs needed to keep kiosks running. What we do know is that companies always look ahead for things (at least the successful ones do) and their concern might be that $15 an hour STILL won't placate the union idiots, and then they want $20 an hour.

Go back and read my posts on this subject.
I told you all this was coming.
FYI the "infrastructure" required to virtually make FF outlets 100 automated is a one-time investment (which is written off in tax deferments).
The bottom line cost savings by installing automated FF equipment is close to double digits per piece of equipment.
No more fucking semi-literates who don't wash their hands, who show up late/drunk/stoned.
No more fucking 'paperwork'!
No more product loss and theft.
A business acquaintance who owns a few FF outlets is switching over to fully automated operations.
Three years ago he had 40 people on the 'on-call' list to cover four outlets.
Today he employs three full time 'mature' employees, all over fifty with other sources of income like pensions, at each outlet.
And about ten 'mature' part time 'on call' employees also with other sources of income to cover evening shifts etc.
His businesses have never run so smoothly.
He is installing fully automated pieces of equipment as soon as they are available.
The fully automated chip fryers he installed eliminated about twenty part time jobs.

Some of this equipment is probably not a "one time cost" as their replacement cycles are less than 10 years, and unless the automation is a "slap on" model, you have to rebuy the new automation when you get the new cooking/sorting/prepping unit in.

Still the sad fact is that yes, the people that the "fight for 15" people think think they are helping are the ones hurt the most by automation, but there is also another mechanism at play, which is you open up the work pool to a better class of employee. If you pay $15 an hour, someone in a $15 an hour job that is harder may decide to take the easier $15 an hour job (the former $8 an hour job). That pushes out the only worth $8 an hour employee as well.

 

[dannyboys]

The average McDonalds nets $156,000 on 2.6 million dollars in yearly sales. If they can't afford a wage increase out of the $156,000 how they hell are they going to purchase expensive automation equipment?

The Ugly Truth About Ed Rensi

Because it replaces some of the salaries they would have to pay, and the hourly operating costs even with maintenance figured in is much much less than a breathing employee?

Do the math. Franchise owners can't possibly swing the investment. Of the more than 2.4 million dollars in operating expenses it is doubtful more than $300,000 is in total labor cost. They send much more of that 2.4 million dollars to McDonalds corporate in the form of rents, royalties, and service fees So again, just how much can automation cut that three hundred grand? At what expense?

Nope, when your bottom line profit is half as much as your total labor cost, and your total labor cost accounts for less than 15% of your total costs, large capital investments to trim those already minimal labor costs are hard to justify.

One study found that raising the price of the Big Mac by just seventeen cents, and only raising the price of the Big Mac, McDonald's could fund a fifteen dollars an hour minimum wage. They couldn't put in a new drive thru window for that.

The Socialist rag where you got your numbers is spewing bullshit lies.
After you have owned and operated half a dozen FF outlets get back to us.
Until then fuck off!

 

[danielpalos]

If SOCIETY had its way we would all be making a livable wage. Political whores paid by corporations refuse to do as the people want.

Society is not willing to pay either in high prices or taxes what it would take to have a guaranteed income, which would be neutered by inflation anyway.

yet, "society" is willing to pay for a drug war?

Yeah, yeah, we know. You want legal pot and to get paid not to work. It doesn't work that way.

Yes, it does. why do you believe it doesn't? the right wing lost their moral clues and their moral Cause, last millennium.

If it already did, why are you arguing that it should? The truth is that it has been tried, several times, and untold millions have died in misery as the result.

the truth is, you don't know what you are talking about. socialism starts with a social Contract, like a Constitution.

equal protection of the law, is socialism, not capitalism.

 

[danielpalos]

I'm calling bullshit.

They would have done the kiosk thing anyway.

How long does it take to design and develop the kiosks and computer programs? How long to install them nationwide?

This has been in the works longer than the call for wage increases.

How do you know? A kid making $8.00 an hour might be cheaper than the infrastructure costs needed to keep kiosks running. What we do know is that companies always look ahead for things (at least the successful ones do) and their concern might be that $15 an hour STILL won't placate the union idiots, and then they want $20 an hour.

Go back and read my posts on this subject.
I told you all this was coming.
FYI the "infrastructure" required to virtually make FF outlets 100 automated is a one-time investment (which is written off in tax deferments).
The bottom line cost savings by installing automated FF equipment is close to double digits per piece of equipment.
No more fucking semi-literates who don't wash their hands, who show up late/drunk/stoned.
No more fucking 'paperwork'!
No more product loss and theft.
A business acquaintance who owns a few FF outlets is switching over to fully automated operations.
Three years ago he had 40 people on the 'on-call' list to cover four outlets.
Today he employs three full time 'mature' employees, all over fifty with other sources of income like pensions, at each outlet.
And about ten 'mature' part time 'on call' employees also with other sources of income to cover evening shifts etc.
His businesses have never run so smoothly.
He is installing fully automated pieces of equipment as soon as they are available.
The fully automated chip fryers he installed eliminated about twenty part time jobs.

Some of this equipment is probably not a "one time cost" as their replacement cycles are less than 10 years, and unless the automation is a "slap on" model, you have to rebuy the new automation when you get the new cooking/sorting/prepping unit in.

Still the sad fact is that yes, the people that the "fight for 15" people think think they are helping are the ones hurt the most by automation, but there is also another mechanism at play, which is you open up the work pool to a better class of employee. If you pay $15 an hour, someone in a $15 an hour job that is harder may decide to take the easier $15 an hour job (the former $8 an hour job). That pushes out the only worth $8 an hour employee as well.

some wages are "tied to the minimum wage" in some manner; a rising tide lifts all boats, eventually.

 

[martybegan]

I'm calling bullshit.

They would have done the kiosk thing anyway.

How long does it take to design and develop the kiosks and computer programs? How long to install them nationwide?

This has been in the works longer than the call for wage increases.

How do you know? A kid making $8.00 an hour might be cheaper than the infrastructure costs needed to keep kiosks running. What we do know is that companies always look ahead for things (at least the successful ones do) and their concern might be that $15 an hour STILL won't placate the union idiots, and then they want $20 an hour.

Go back and read my posts on this subject.
I told you all this was coming.
FYI the "infrastructure" required to virtually make FF outlets 100 automated is a one-time investment (which is written off in tax deferments).
The bottom line cost savings by installing automated FF equipment is close to double digits per piece of equipment.
No more fucking semi-literates who don't wash their hands, who show up late/drunk/stoned.
No more fucking 'paperwork'!
No more product loss and theft.
A business acquaintance who owns a few FF outlets is switching over to fully automated operations.
Three years ago he had 40 people on the 'on-call' list to cover four outlets.
Today he employs three full time 'mature' employees, all over fifty with other sources of income like pensions, at each outlet.
And about ten 'mature' part time 'on call' employees also with other sources of income to cover evening shifts etc.
His businesses have never run so smoothly.
He is installing fully automated pieces of equipment as soon as they are available.
The fully automated chip fryers he installed eliminated about twenty part time jobs.

Some of this equipment is probably not a "one time cost" as their replacement cycles are less than 10 years, and unless the automation is a "slap on" model, you have to rebuy the new automation when you get the new cooking/sorting/prepping unit in.

Still the sad fact is that yes, the people that the "fight for 15" people think think they are helping are the ones hurt the most by automation, but there is also another mechanism at play, which is you open up the work pool to a better class of employee. If you pay $15 an hour, someone in a $15 an hour job that is harder may decide to take the easier $15 an hour job (the former $8 an hour job). That pushes out the only worth $8 an hour employee as well.

some wages are "tied to the minimum wage" in some manner; a rising tide lifts all boats, eventually.

and you do realize that the phenomenon makes raising the minimum wage a futile cyclical fight, right?

 

[Winston]

The average McDonalds nets $156,000 on 2.6 million dollars in yearly sales. If they can't afford a wage increase out of the $156,000 how they hell are they going to purchase expensive automation equipment?

The Ugly Truth About Ed Rensi

Because it replaces some of the salaries they would have to pay, and the hourly operating costs even with maintenance figured in is much much less than a breathing employee?

Do the math. Franchise owners can't possibly swing the investment. Of the more than 2.4 million dollars in operating expenses it is doubtful more than $300,000 is in total labor cost. They send much more of that 2.4 million dollars to McDonalds corporate in the form of rents, royalties, and service fees So again, just how much can automation cut that three hundred grand? At what expense?

Nope, when your bottom line profit is half as much as your total labor cost, and your total labor cost accounts for less than 15% of your total costs, large capital investments to trim those already minimal labor costs are hard to justify.

One study found that raising the price of the Big Mac by just seventeen cents, and only raising the price of the Big Mac, McDonald's could fund a fifteen dollars an hour minimum wage. They couldn't put in a new drive thru window for that.

The Socialist rag where you got your numbers is spewing bullshit lies.
After you have owned and operated half a dozen FF outlets get back to us.
Until then fuck off!

LMAO

When I was younger I was a change agent for restaurant operators. Maybe you heard of a little company I helped expand in the Southeast. Outback Steakhouse. But anyways, McDonald's corporate recruited me back in the 1990's to help them design and incorporate a JIT process. I am intimately area of how they operate. The numbers are spot on..

 

[dannyboys]

I'm calling bullshit.

They would have done the kiosk thing anyway.

How long does it take to design and develop the kiosks and computer programs? How long to install them nationwide?

This has been in the works longer than the call for wage increases.

How do you know? A kid making $8.00 an hour might be cheaper than the infrastructure costs needed to keep kiosks running. What we do know is that companies always look ahead for things (at least the successful ones do) and their concern might be that $15 an hour STILL won't placate the union idiots, and then they want $20 an hour.

Go back and read my posts on this subject.
I told you all this was coming.
FYI the "infrastructure" required to virtually make FF outlets 100 automated is a one-time investment (which is written off in tax deferments).
The bottom line cost savings by installing automated FF equipment is close to double digits per piece of equipment.
No more fucking semi-literates who don't wash their hands, who show up late/drunk/stoned.
No more fucking 'paperwork'!
No more product loss and theft.
A business acquaintance who owns a few FF outlets is switching over to fully automated operations.
Three years ago he had 40 people on the 'on-call' list to cover four outlets.
Today he employs three full time 'mature' employees, all over fifty with other sources of income like pensions, at each outlet.
And about ten 'mature' part time 'on call' employees also with other sources of income to cover evening shifts etc.
His businesses have never run so smoothly.
He is installing fully automated pieces of equipment as soon as they are available.
The fully automated chip fryers he installed eliminated about twenty part time jobs.

Some of this equipment is probably not a "one time cost" as their replacement cycles are less than 10 years, and unless the automation is a "slap on" model, you have to rebuy the new automation when you get the new cooking/sorting/prepping unit in.

Still the sad fact is that yes, the people that the "fight for 15" people think think they are helping are the ones hurt the most by automation, but there is also another mechanism at play, which is you open up the work pool to a better class of employee. If you pay $15 an hour, someone in a $15 an hour job that is harder may decide to take the easier $15 an hour job (the former $8 an hour job). That pushes out the only worth $8 an hour employee as well.

YUP. This is exactly what's happening across the entire FF industry.
Go into any FF outlet for lunch and check out the employees.
You'll see more and more 'mature' employees who all have addition sources of income such as pensions.
In the back there are increasing numbers of semi/fully automated machines doing the work of last year's semi-literate/dirty/sulking/young people who were turning up late/drunk/stoned.
FYI virtually every modern automated FF production piece of equipment is 'plug and play'.
The extreme durability built into the back-bone of these machines means multi-millions of production cycles.
Polyamide nylon parts last virtually forever.
Same with the titanium backbone. The only components that wear out are bearings and electronics.
There are 'wear sensors' built in.
A local technician is automatically sent a replacement schedule. Well before the sensor detects a worn out part the technician shows up at four in the morning and unplugs the wearing out component and simply plugs in a new one.

 

[dannyboys]

The average McDonalds nets $156,000 on 2.6 million dollars in yearly sales. If they can't afford a wage increase out of the $156,000 how they hell are they going to purchase expensive automation equipment?

The Ugly Truth About Ed Rensi

Because it replaces some of the salaries they would have to pay, and the hourly operating costs even with maintenance figured in is much much less than a breathing employee?

Do the math. Franchise owners can't possibly swing the investment. Of the more than 2.4 million dollars in operating expenses it is doubtful more than $300,000 is in total labor cost. They send much more of that 2.4 million dollars to McDonalds corporate in the form of rents, royalties, and service fees So again, just how much can automation cut that three hundred grand? At what expense?

Nope, when your bottom line profit is half as much as your total labor cost, and your total labor cost accounts for less than 15% of your total costs, large capital investments to trim those already minimal labor costs are hard to justify.

One study found that raising the price of the Big Mac by just seventeen cents, and only raising the price of the Big Mac, McDonald's could fund a fifteen dollars an hour minimum wage. They couldn't put in a new drive thru window for that.

The Socialist rag where you got your numbers is spewing bullshit lies.
After you have owned and operated half a dozen FF outlets get back to us.
Until then fuck off!

LMAO

When I was younger I was a change agent for restaurant operators. Maybe you heard of a little company I helped expand in the Southeast. Outback Steakhouse. But anyways, McDonald's corporate recruited me back in the 1990's to help them design and incorporate a JIT process. I am intimately area of how they operate. The numbers are spot on..

Bullshit!
If the "numbers were spot on" the entire FF industry world wide would not be moving to as much automation as possible.
Or is the FF industry full on fucking dummies who can't get it through their heads that it's cheaper to pay someone fifteen bucks an hour to build a 'AW 'Buddy Burger' than to buy a machine that will turn out three 'customer-customized' burgers an hour? Each one perfectly built. No more: "I told you I didn't want fucking onions!!!!!!"
Wise up pal!

 

[danielpalos]

I'm calling bullshit.

They would have done the kiosk thing anyway.

How long does it take to design and develop the kiosks and computer programs? How long to install them nationwide?

This has been in the works longer than the call for wage increases.

How do you know? A kid making $8.00 an hour might be cheaper than the infrastructure costs needed to keep kiosks running. What we do know is that companies always look ahead for things (at least the successful ones do) and their concern might be that $15 an hour STILL won't placate the union idiots, and then they want $20 an hour.

Go back and read my posts on this subject.
I told you all this was coming.
FYI the "infrastructure" required to virtually make FF outlets 100 automated is a one-time investment (which is written off in tax deferments).
The bottom line cost savings by installing automated FF equipment is close to double digits per piece of equipment.
No more fucking semi-literates who don't wash their hands, who show up late/drunk/stoned.
No more fucking 'paperwork'!
No more product loss and theft.
A business acquaintance who owns a few FF outlets is switching over to fully automated operations.
Three years ago he had 40 people on the 'on-call' list to cover four outlets.
Today he employs three full time 'mature' employees, all over fifty with other sources of income like pensions, at each outlet.
And about ten 'mature' part time 'on call' employees also with other sources of income to cover evening shifts etc.
His businesses have never run so smoothly.
He is installing fully automated pieces of equipment as soon as they are available.
The fully automated chip fryers he installed eliminated about twenty part time jobs.

Some of this equipment is probably not a "one time cost" as their replacement cycles are less than 10 years, and unless the automation is a "slap on" model, you have to rebuy the new automation when you get the new cooking/sorting/prepping unit in.

Still the sad fact is that yes, the people that the "fight for 15" people think think they are helping are the ones hurt the most by automation, but there is also another mechanism at play, which is you open up the work pool to a better class of employee. If you pay $15 an hour, someone in a $15 an hour job that is harder may decide to take the easier $15 an hour job (the former $8 an hour job). That pushes out the only worth $8 an hour employee as well.

some wages are "tied to the minimum wage" in some manner; a rising tide lifts all boats, eventually.

and you do realize that the phenomenon makes raising the minimum wage a futile cyclical fight, right?

resistance is Not futile, if wages outpace inflation. a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage can make that happen.

 

[danielpalos]

The average McDonalds nets $156,000 on 2.6 million dollars in yearly sales. If they can't afford a wage increase out of the $156,000 how they hell are they going to purchase expensive automation equipment?

The Ugly Truth About Ed Rensi

Because it replaces some of the salaries they would have to pay, and the hourly operating costs even with maintenance figured in is much much less than a breathing employee?

Do the math. Franchise owners can't possibly swing the investment. Of the more than 2.4 million dollars in operating expenses it is doubtful more than $300,000 is in total labor cost. They send much more of that 2.4 million dollars to McDonalds corporate in the form of rents, royalties, and service fees So again, just how much can automation cut that three hundred grand? At what expense?

Nope, when your bottom line profit is half as much as your total labor cost, and your total labor cost accounts for less than 15% of your total costs, large capital investments to trim those already minimal labor costs are hard to justify.

One study found that raising the price of the Big Mac by just seventeen cents, and only raising the price of the Big Mac, McDonald's could fund a fifteen dollars an hour minimum wage. They couldn't put in a new drive thru window for that.

The Socialist rag where you got your numbers is spewing bullshit lies.
After you have owned and operated half a dozen FF outlets get back to us.
Until then fuck off!

LMAO

When I was younger I was a change agent for restaurant operators. Maybe you heard of a little company I helped expand in the Southeast. Outback Steakhouse. But anyways, McDonald's corporate recruited me back in the 1990's to help them design and incorporate a JIT process. I am intimately area of how they operate. The numbers are spot on..

Bullshit!
If the "numbers were spot on" the entire FF industry world wide would not be moving to as much automation as possible.
Or is the FF industry full on fucking dummies who can't get it through their heads that it's cheaper to pay someone fifteen bucks an hour to build a 'AW 'Buddy Burger' than to buy a machine that will turn out three 'customer-customized' burgers an hour? Each one perfectly built. No more: "I told you I didn't want fucking onions!!!!!!"
Wise up pal!

technology keeps improving and prices keep coming down.

 

[martybegan]

How do you know? A kid making $8.00 an hour might be cheaper than the infrastructure costs needed to keep kiosks running. What we do know is that companies always look ahead for things (at least the successful ones do) and their concern might be that $15 an hour STILL won't placate the union idiots, and then they want $20 an hour.

Go back and read my posts on this subject.
I told you all this was coming.
FYI the "infrastructure" required to virtually make FF outlets 100 automated is a one-time investment (which is written off in tax deferments).
The bottom line cost savings by installing automated FF equipment is close to double digits per piece of equipment.
No more fucking semi-literates who don't wash their hands, who show up late/drunk/stoned.
No more fucking 'paperwork'!
No more product loss and theft.
A business acquaintance who owns a few FF outlets is switching over to fully automated operations.
Three years ago he had 40 people on the 'on-call' list to cover four outlets.
Today he employs three full time 'mature' employees, all over fifty with other sources of income like pensions, at each outlet.
And about ten 'mature' part time 'on call' employees also with other sources of income to cover evening shifts etc.
His businesses have never run so smoothly.
He is installing fully automated pieces of equipment as soon as they are available.
The fully automated chip fryers he installed eliminated about twenty part time jobs.

Some of this equipment is probably not a "one time cost" as their replacement cycles are less than 10 years, and unless the automation is a "slap on" model, you have to rebuy the new automation when you get the new cooking/sorting/prepping unit in.

Still the sad fact is that yes, the people that the "fight for 15" people think think they are helping are the ones hurt the most by automation, but there is also another mechanism at play, which is you open up the work pool to a better class of employee. If you pay $15 an hour, someone in a $15 an hour job that is harder may decide to take the easier $15 an hour job (the former $8 an hour job). That pushes out the only worth $8 an hour employee as well.

some wages are "tied to the minimum wage" in some manner; a rising tide lifts all boats, eventually.

and you do realize that the phenomenon makes raising the minimum wage a futile cyclical fight, right?

resistance is Not futile, if wages outpace inflation. a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage can make that happen.

A $15 minimum would increase inflation, and any gap between the wage increase and the inflation increase would be temporary at best.

It's like you think economics is some magic show instead of an actual process of inputs and outputs.

 

[dannyboys]

Thanks to the left, now even high school kids can't get jobs.

Thanks To 'Fight For $15' Minimum Wage, McDonald's Unveils Job-Replacing Self-Service Kiosks Nationwide

I also call bullshit. The same person that takes your order brings you your food. How would an automated order system reduce staff?

If you go into the FF outlet you simply press the buttons to make your order. You 'tap' your card to make payment. No cash. If you don't have a bank card of some sort you put whatever amount of paper currency into a 'robot' and it spits out a card which you use to tap when you make your order.
Many people will load up this sort of card and then be able to use it a number of times.
In the back a tray is positioned by a robot. The fries have been perfectly cooked and your portion is put into the cardboard container by a robot. Your 'customized' burger is built as it moves on the conveyor until it is wrapped by a robot.
Same with your drink.
Each item is positioned on the tray.
The tray is moved to a slot in the wall. On the other side you are informed that your order is ready. You walk up to the wall and your order is waiting. You lift the door and take your order.
The only humans involved are the few who are trained to feed the robots the products the robots use to make your order.
Currently there are THOUSANDS of these virtually fully automated FF outlets throughout Asia.
Within a few years every FF outlet in the US will be as automated as the owner can make them.

 

[dannyboys]

The employer doesn't have to pay the $19. Most all american companies don't want to retain their workers because it costs them more and they are to cheap to pay it. Its easier to keep training newbies and then fire them when they know their jobs well.

You really are a simpleton!
That's right. In the real world businesses invest the time and money to train their employees. Then when these employees are good at their jobs the businesses "fire" these experienced employees and hire a bunch of people whom they must again spend time and money training.
How fucking old are you? Like ten??????
One more of your ten year old posts and you're going on PI!

 

[Winston]

The average McDonalds nets $156,000 on 2.6 million dollars in yearly sales. If they can't afford a wage increase out of the $156,000 how they hell are they going to purchase expensive automation equipment?

The Ugly Truth About Ed Rensi

Because it replaces some of the salaries they would have to pay, and the hourly operating costs even with maintenance figured in is much much less than a breathing employee?

Do the math. Franchise owners can't possibly swing the investment. Of the more than 2.4 million dollars in operating expenses it is doubtful more than $300,000 is in total labor cost. They send much more of that 2.4 million dollars to McDonalds corporate in the form of rents, royalties, and service fees So again, just how much can automation cut that three hundred grand? At what expense?

Nope, when your bottom line profit is half as much as your total labor cost, and your total labor cost accounts for less than 15% of your total costs, large capital investments to trim those already minimal labor costs are hard to justify.

One study found that raising the price of the Big Mac by just seventeen cents, and only raising the price of the Big Mac, McDonald's could fund a fifteen dollars an hour minimum wage. They couldn't put in a new drive thru window for that.

The Socialist rag where you got your numbers is spewing bullshit lies.
After you have owned and operated half a dozen FF outlets get back to us.
Until then fuck off!

LMAO

When I was younger I was a change agent for restaurant operators. Maybe you heard of a little company I helped expand in the Southeast. Outback Steakhouse. But anyways, McDonald's corporate recruited me back in the 1990's to help them design and incorporate a JIT process. I am intimately area of how they operate. The numbers are spot on..

Bullshit!
If the "numbers were spot on" the entire FF industry world wide would not be moving to as much automation as possible.
Or is the FF industry full on fucking dummies who can't get it through their heads that it's cheaper to pay someone fifteen bucks an hour to build a 'AW 'Buddy Burger' than to buy a machine that will turn out three 'customer-customized' burgers an hour? Each one perfectly built. No more: "I told you I didn't want fucking onions!!!!!!"
Wise up pal!

Well, McDonald's is backing away from automation. They were going to implement a create your own program with a self service kiosk in every location. The cost for the kiosk was forty grand. They pulled the national roll-out. Probably because the forty grand investment was not justified.

And honestly, you kind of hit on the problem with automation. Call it the John Henry problem. Sure, you will find some automation on the front end taking orders. But on the back end, in production. Three burgers an hour? Obviously no one is buying that machine. Turnaround times in the fast food industry are measured in minutes, seconds in the drive-thru. Even fresh ground cooked to order Five Guys--it is eight minutes.

And finally, something everyone seems to be missing. When a kiosk is not taking an order it is an expensive decoration. You can't tell it to check the restrooms, sweep the lobby, or make another batch of coffee. The same holds true in the back. When it is not making burgers it is taking up precious space that costs hundreds of dollars per square feet. Before you can justify a piece of automated equipment you have to examine the impact of that dedicated allocation of time and space to your operation.

 

[dannyboys]

To be serious those have been around in fast food for over 10 years, I highly doubt they will become the norm.

Most people like me don't like them or use them, even in the supermarket self check out.


Let's look at history and human nature this has been around for a 100 years I think and didn't take over

There are so many differences in what was happening in the photo compared to what's happening in FF outlets today it's not even relevant to mix the two.
Literally every one of the food products being sold in the photo were 'pre prepared' items. That's just for starters.
Apples and oranges.

 

[hadit]

Society is not willing to pay either in high prices or taxes what it would take to have a guaranteed income, which would be neutered by inflation anyway.

yet, "society" is willing to pay for a drug war?

Yeah, yeah, we know. You want legal pot and to get paid not to work. It doesn't work that way.

Yes, it does. why do you believe it doesn't? the right wing lost their moral clues and their moral Cause, last millennium.

If it already did, why are you arguing that it should? The truth is that it has been tried, several times, and untold millions have died in misery as the result.

the truth is, you don't know what you are talking about. socialism starts with a social Contract, like a Constitution.

equal protection of the law, is socialism, not capitalism.

Redefining what words mean does not eliminate the truth. Paying people for not working is welfare and when the ratio of takers to producers gets high enough, the system falls apart. 10 takers in a society of 100 million producers, not such a big deal. 10 million in that same society taking is a bigger deal. 50 million taking in that society is a really big deal. You want to push us in the direction of unsustainability.

 

[Wyatt earp]

To be serious those have been around in fast food for over 10 years, I highly doubt they will become the norm.

Most people like me don't like them or use them, even in the supermarket self check out.


Let's look at history and human nature this has been around for a 100 years I think and didn't take over

There are so many differences in what was happening in the photo compared to what's happening in FF outlets today it's not even relevant to mix the two.
Literally every one of the food products being sold in the photo were 'pre prepared' items. That's just for starters.
Apples and oranges.

Your not getting my premise, it's the entire thing of people want to interact with a human, fast food kiosk been around for over 10 years plus in this country and have not taken off.

.

 

[hadit]

Because it replaces some of the salaries they would have to pay, and the hourly operating costs even with maintenance figured in is much much less than a breathing employee?

Do the math. Franchise owners can't possibly swing the investment. Of the more than 2.4 million dollars in operating expenses it is doubtful more than $300,000 is in total labor cost. They send much more of that 2.4 million dollars to McDonalds corporate in the form of rents, royalties, and service fees So again, just how much can automation cut that three hundred grand? At what expense?

Nope, when your bottom line profit is half as much as your total labor cost, and your total labor cost accounts for less than 15% of your total costs, large capital investments to trim those already minimal labor costs are hard to justify.

One study found that raising the price of the Big Mac by just seventeen cents, and only raising the price of the Big Mac, McDonald's could fund a fifteen dollars an hour minimum wage. They couldn't put in a new drive thru window for that.

The Socialist rag where you got your numbers is spewing bullshit lies.
After you have owned and operated half a dozen FF outlets get back to us.
Until then fuck off!

LMAO

When I was younger I was a change agent for restaurant operators. Maybe you heard of a little company I helped expand in the Southeast. Outback Steakhouse. But anyways, McDonald's corporate recruited me back in the 1990's to help them design and incorporate a JIT process. I am intimately area of how they operate. The numbers are spot on..

Bullshit!
If the "numbers were spot on" the entire FF industry world wide would not be moving to as much automation as possible.
Or is the FF industry full on fucking dummies who can't get it through their heads that it's cheaper to pay someone fifteen bucks an hour to build a 'AW 'Buddy Burger' than to buy a machine that will turn out three 'customer-customized' burgers an hour? Each one perfectly built. No more: "I told you I didn't want fucking onions!!!!!!"
Wise up pal!

Well, McDonald's is backing away from automation. They were going to implement a create your own program with a self service kiosk in every location. The cost for the kiosk was forty grand. They pulled the national roll-out. Probably because the forty grand investment was not justified.

And honestly, you kind of hit on the problem with automation. Call it the John Henry problem. Sure, you will find some automation on the front end taking orders. But on the back end, in production. Three burgers an hour? Obviously no one is buying that machine. Turnaround times in the fast food industry are measured in minutes, seconds in the drive-thru. Even fresh ground cooked to order Five Guys--it is eight minutes.

And finally, something everyone seems to be missing. When a kiosk is not taking an order it is an expensive decoration. You can't tell it to check the restrooms, sweep the lobby, or make another batch of coffee. The same holds true in the back. When it is not making burgers it is taking up precious space that costs hundreds of dollars per square feet. Before you can justify a piece of automated equipment you have to examine the impact of that dedicated allocation of time and space to your operation.

And when the cost of paying people to do those jobs gets high enough, machines that can crank out burgers faster than humans will be cost justified and will do the work. The FF industry is just now starting to move in that direction, but keep jacking the MW and the move will accelerate.

There are always problems in the beginning when technology advances and there are always scoffers who say the new machines will never be as good as humans (or horses) at doing whatever job, but they soon fall silent as they zip along at 70 mph instead of 7, smelling pine scented air fresheners instead horse farts.

 

[dannyboys]

Because it replaces some of the salaries they would have to pay, and the hourly operating costs even with maintenance figured in is much much less than a breathing employee?

Do the math. Franchise owners can't possibly swing the investment. Of the more than 2.4 million dollars in operating expenses it is doubtful more than $300,000 is in total labor cost. They send much more of that 2.4 million dollars to McDonalds corporate in the form of rents, royalties, and service fees So again, just how much can automation cut that three hundred grand? At what expense?

Nope, when your bottom line profit is half as much as your total labor cost, and your total labor cost accounts for less than 15% of your total costs, large capital investments to trim those already minimal labor costs are hard to justify.

One study found that raising the price of the Big Mac by just seventeen cents, and only raising the price of the Big Mac, McDonald's could fund a fifteen dollars an hour minimum wage. They couldn't put in a new drive thru window for that.

The Socialist rag where you got your numbers is spewing bullshit lies.
After you have owned and operated half a dozen FF outlets get back to us.
Until then fuck off!

LMAO

When I was younger I was a change agent for restaurant operators. Maybe you heard of a little company I helped expand in the Southeast. Outback Steakhouse. But anyways, McDonald's corporate recruited me back in the 1990's to help them design and incorporate a JIT process. I am intimately area of how they operate. The numbers are spot on..

Bullshit!
If the "numbers were spot on" the entire FF industry world wide would not be moving to as much automation as possible.
Or is the FF industry full on fucking dummies who can't get it through their heads that it's cheaper to pay someone fifteen bucks an hour to build a 'AW 'Buddy Burger' than to buy a machine that will turn out three 'customer-customized' burgers an hour? Each one perfectly built. No more: "I told you I didn't want fucking onions!!!!!!"
Wise up pal!

Well, McDonald's is backing away from automation. They were going to implement a create your own program with a self service kiosk in every location. The cost for the kiosk was forty grand. They pulled the national roll-out. Probably because the forty grand investment was not justified.

And honestly, you kind of hit on the problem with automation. Call it the John Henry problem. Sure, you will find some automation on the front end taking orders. But on the back end, in production. Three burgers an hour? Obviously no one is buying that machine. Turnaround times in the fast food industry are measured in minutes, seconds in the drive-thru. Even fresh ground cooked to order Five Guys--it is eight minutes.

And finally, something everyone seems to be missing. When a kiosk is not taking an order it is an expensive decoration. You can't tell it to check the restrooms, sweep the lobby, or make another batch of coffee. The same holds true in the back. When it is not making burgers it is taking up precious space that costs hundreds of dollars per square feet. Before you can justify a piece of automated equipment you have to examine the impact of that dedicated allocation of time and space to your operation.

I mistyped. I meant to type three hundred burgers an hour obviously.
If FF automation is so cost ineffective why is the FF industry world wide moving towards as much automation as possible?
You're full of shit!
Last November McDonald's announced the Kiosk roll-out.
Try to keep up.
McDonald's To Roll Out Self-Order Kiosks and Table Service in the U.S. | Fortune.com

 

[Winston]

Thanks to the left, now even high school kids can't get jobs.

Thanks To 'Fight For $15' Minimum Wage, McDonald's Unveils Job-Replacing Self-Service Kiosks Nationwide

I also call bullshit. The same person that takes your order brings you your food. How would an automated order system reduce staff?

If you go into the FF outlet you simply press the buttons to make your order. You 'tap' your card to make payment. No cash. If you don't have a bank card of some sort you put whatever amount of paper currency into a 'robot' and it spits out a card which you use to tap when you make your order.
Many people will load up this sort of card and then be able to use it a number of times.
In the back a tray is positioned by a robot. The fries have been perfectly cooked and your portion is put into the cardboard container by a robot. Your 'customized' burger is built as it moves on the conveyor until it is wrapped by a robot.
Same with your drink.
Each item is positioned on the tray.
The tray is moved to a slot in the wall. On the other side you are informed that your order is ready. You walk up to the wall and your order is waiting. You lift the door and take your order.
The only humans involved are the few who are trained to feed the robots the products the robots use to make your order.
Currently there are THOUSANDS of these virtually fully automated FF outlets throughout Asia.
Within a few years every FF outlet in the US will be as automated as the owner can make them.

There is a huge cultural difference between Asians and Americans. Japan has the highest ratio of vending machines to people in the world. They will buy anything from a vending machine, which is really what you are describing. But imagine, an American dutifully keying in his order and handing over the money without speaking to a single soul. Then patiently waiting without any awareness as to the progress of his order, no communication with anyone, for a "bing". And the best part, trustingly picking up his order from a window with no person to hold accountable if it is screwed up. Oh yeah, I can see that place absolutely booming.