Men in women's bathrooms

[ChrisL]

The contrast is pretty simple... Liberals tend to promote tolerance, acceptance, and freedom of expression; especially for those in the "oppressed" minority. Conservatives tend to promote preserving disciplined traditional values and justified discrimination against those who do not hold the same views as those in power.
We've seen this in history with blacks, woman, and gays as each group has fought for their rights. The arguments on both sides has been very similar... Fear of loosing "our" way of life by compromising our values Versus calls of bigotry and discrimination against a human right to freely live and express who we are, even if that may be different than what society considers "normal".

This isn't about a mental illness... The same claims were made about gays decades ago... this is the way of life for a group of people. Nobody is going to abolish it by defining it as a disease or unnatural. These arguments are a road to nowhere.

The only thing that can and will happen at this point is we define what a transgender person is, What gender identity is, and what the transition stages are. Then how they apply to our public facilities and schools.

Conservatives are not going to be able dismiss the rights of transgenders by labeling them sick and transgenders are not going to get absolute freedom to use facilities of the opposite sex.

I disagree. They have the same symptoms of any other body dysmorphic disorder. What do you think makes it any different?

 

[Seawytch]

How would you force a transgendered youth into conforming to your wishes, Puppy? You gonna beat it out of them? That doesn't work.

I also don't think you'd be happy with what actual mental health professionals recommend.

The same exact way you "force" a person who believes they are Jesus Christ into "conforming" (interesting choice of words for the propaganda campaign wytchy - most would just call it reality). A person who believes something other than what is real is mentally disturbed. You prove that yourself every day here on USMB!

Vague and unspecific. How do you force a trans child into "conforming", Puppy?

And, naturally, you're still dodging the facts about what actual medical professionals recommend. What do they recommend, Puppy? (I'll give you a hint, it's the exact opposite of what you would say or do)

They recommend treating the mental illness. Those that aren't afraid of having their careers destroyed by false accusations from the queer lynch mob anyway. It's ok wytchy - you can't handle reality but the rest of us will handle it for you. You just sit back and let the sane, rational adults handle things.

So all mental illness get's treated the same, Puppy? Keep ducking and dodging reality.

How would you force conformity, Puppy? You're still not answering.

And what about people who believe they are really animals? Surgery for them too?

What do doctors recommend?

Children can in fact be pressured into things. They are VERY impressionable, especially impressed by those who are their elders and in a position of authority over them.

And you're an idiot if you think parents are responsible for trans kids.

How do you force a trans kid to not be trans?

 

[ChrisL]

The same exact way you "force" a person who believes they are Jesus Christ into "conforming" (interesting choice of words for the propaganda campaign wytchy - most would just call it reality). A person who believes something other than what is real is mentally disturbed. You prove that yourself every day here on USMB!

Vague and unspecific. How do you force a trans child into "conforming", Puppy?

And, naturally, you're still dodging the facts about what actual medical professionals recommend. What do they recommend, Puppy? (I'll give you a hint, it's the exact opposite of what you would say or do)

They recommend treating the mental illness. Those that aren't afraid of having their careers destroyed by false accusations from the queer lynch mob anyway. It's ok wytchy - you can't handle reality but the rest of us will handle it for you. You just sit back and let the sane, rational adults handle things.

So all mental illness get's treated the same, Puppy? Keep ducking and dodging reality.

How would you force conformity, Puppy? You're still not answering.

And what about people who believe they are really animals? Surgery for them too?

What do doctors recommend?

Children can in fact be pressured into things. They are VERY impressionable, especially impressed by those who are their elders and in a position of authority over them.

And you're an idiot if you think parents are responsible for trans kids.

How do you force a trans kid to not be trans?

I think it is very plausible that parenting could be responsible. Even in some of the links I've read, it says responsible and good parenting can help children get over this. Better than pumping your child full of hormones and encouraging them to have surgery! You must be insane.

 

[ChrisL]

The same exact way you "force" a person who believes they are Jesus Christ into "conforming" (interesting choice of words for the propaganda campaign wytchy - most would just call it reality). A person who believes something other than what is real is mentally disturbed. You prove that yourself every day here on USMB!

Vague and unspecific. How do you force a trans child into "conforming", Puppy?

And, naturally, you're still dodging the facts about what actual medical professionals recommend. What do they recommend, Puppy? (I'll give you a hint, it's the exact opposite of what you would say or do)

They recommend treating the mental illness. Those that aren't afraid of having their careers destroyed by false accusations from the queer lynch mob anyway. It's ok wytchy - you can't handle reality but the rest of us will handle it for you. You just sit back and let the sane, rational adults handle things.

So all mental illness get's treated the same, Puppy? Keep ducking and dodging reality.

How would you force conformity, Puppy? You're still not answering.

And what about people who believe they are really animals? Surgery for them too?

What do doctors recommend?

Children can in fact be pressured into things. They are VERY impressionable, especially impressed by those who are their elders and in a position of authority over them.

And you're an idiot if you think parents are responsible for trans kids.

How do you force a trans kid to not be trans?

So, if your child has a body dysmorphic disorder in which he feels he should be crippled, would you recommend that he have his legs broken?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

And you're an idiot if you think parents are responsible for trans kids.

How do you force a trans kid to not be trans?

How do you force someone who is insane, to be sane? I don't know that you can. As far as I know, nobody is claiming that this can or should be done.

The real question is how do you force someone who is sane to be insane, or even to accept and treat insanity as if it represents sanity?

 

[Seawytch]

Vague and unspecific. How do you force a trans child into "conforming", Puppy?

And, naturally, you're still dodging the facts about what actual medical professionals recommend. What do they recommend, Puppy? (I'll give you a hint, it's the exact opposite of what you would say or do)

They recommend treating the mental illness. Those that aren't afraid of having their careers destroyed by false accusations from the queer lynch mob anyway. It's ok wytchy - you can't handle reality but the rest of us will handle it for you. You just sit back and let the sane, rational adults handle things.

So all mental illness get's treated the same, Puppy? Keep ducking and dodging reality.

How would you force conformity, Puppy? You're still not answering.

And what about people who believe they are really animals? Surgery for them too?

What do doctors recommend?

Children can in fact be pressured into things. They are VERY impressionable, especially impressed by those who are their elders and in a position of authority over them.

And you're an idiot if you think parents are responsible for trans kids.

How do you force a trans kid to not be trans?

I think it is very plausible that parenting could be responsible. Even in some of the links I've read, it says responsible and good parenting can help children get over this. Better than pumping your child full of hormones and encouraging them to have surgery! You must be insane.

Funny that you didn't link to said articles.

Actual medical professionals with years of experience, say like the APA recommend what treatment?

I know why none of you want to answer that...doesn't fit your narrative.


I get that the only way you would ever understand is by having a trans family member or loved one...and I wouldn't wish that on any trans person.

 

[Seawytch]

Vague and unspecific. How do you force a trans child into "conforming", Puppy?

And, naturally, you're still dodging the facts about what actual medical professionals recommend. What do they recommend, Puppy? (I'll give you a hint, it's the exact opposite of what you would say or do)

They recommend treating the mental illness. Those that aren't afraid of having their careers destroyed by false accusations from the queer lynch mob anyway. It's ok wytchy - you can't handle reality but the rest of us will handle it for you. You just sit back and let the sane, rational adults handle things.

So all mental illness get's treated the same, Puppy? Keep ducking and dodging reality.

How would you force conformity, Puppy? You're still not answering.

And what about people who believe they are really animals? Surgery for them too?

What do doctors recommend?

Children can in fact be pressured into things. They are VERY impressionable, especially impressed by those who are their elders and in a position of authority over them.

And you're an idiot if you think parents are responsible for trans kids.

How do you force a trans kid to not be trans?

So, if your child has a body dysmorphic disorder in which he feels he should be crippled, would you recommend that he have his legs broken?

All mental health issues and therefore treatment is not the same is it?

 

[Silhouette]

Just give the anorexics liposuction Seawytch...it's what they WANT. They still FEEL like a fat person in that 90lb body.. So, from their delusional self-diagnosis, the public is forced under threat of a fine to assure them that they ARE a fat person in a 90lb body. That will be the next law enforced in New York..

 

[ChrisL]

They recommend treating the mental illness. Those that aren't afraid of having their careers destroyed by false accusations from the queer lynch mob anyway. It's ok wytchy - you can't handle reality but the rest of us will handle it for you. You just sit back and let the sane, rational adults handle things.

So all mental illness get's treated the same, Puppy? Keep ducking and dodging reality.

How would you force conformity, Puppy? You're still not answering.

And what about people who believe they are really animals? Surgery for them too?

What do doctors recommend?

Children can in fact be pressured into things. They are VERY impressionable, especially impressed by those who are their elders and in a position of authority over them.

And you're an idiot if you think parents are responsible for trans kids.

How do you force a trans kid to not be trans?

So, if your child has a body dysmorphic disorder in which he feels he should be crippled, would you recommend that he have his legs broken?

All mental health issues and therefore treatment is not the same is it?

Transgenderism is obviously a type of body dysmorphic syndrome. It fits the description to a T. There are many different types of body dysmorphic syndrome and none of them are treated with unnecessary surgeries because surgeries are risky and these changes are permanent.

 

[Silhouette]

you're an idiot if you think parents are responsible for trans kids.

How do you force a trans kid to not be trans?

OK smarty pants. Put your money where your mouth is. If you think that parents aren't responsible for coercion to drug and amputate children, then they should feel exquisitely comfortable on the shrink's couch before Jr. comes in for his turn. Right? No worries. After all, when thoroughly screening a child for mental issues around rejecting his gender, no stone can be left unturned. That's how the law reads, right? Before they can get clearance to have an MD write an illegal prescription for adolescence-blocking hormones, against the approved use of those drugs...

Mom, Dad, Uncle Jim and Aunt Sally should all be more than happy to help give psychiatrists the most complete picture possible on treating the patient....yes? After all, you know how reticent children are to speak up. The adults could really steer the shrink in the right direction.

If they'd done this with "Jazz", they'd have found out that after having two other boys, the mother really REALLY wanted a girl for her third and last child. They'd have noticed the little boy being dressed as a girl long before a child or a toddler's or infant's age could process that type of stuff...all the pink frilly stuff in his room from way before an age where a child even cares about that crap...unless he's picked up on a thousand subtle and not so subtle cues that "if I want attention as the third of three boys...I'd better start acting like and saying I'm a girl"..

 

[Slade3200]

The contrast is pretty simple... Liberals tend to promote tolerance, acceptance, and freedom of expression; especially for those in the "oppressed" minority. Conservatives tend to promote preserving disciplined traditional values and justified discrimination against those who do not hold the same views as those in power.
We've seen this in history with blacks, woman, and gays as each group has fought for their rights. The arguments on both sides has been very similar... Fear of loosing "our" way of life by compromising our values Versus calls of bigotry and discrimination against a human right to freely live and express who we are, even if that may be different than what society considers "normal".

This isn't about a mental illness... The same claims were made about gays decades ago... this is the way of life for a group of people. Nobody is going to abolish it by defining it as a disease or unnatural. These arguments are a road to nowhere.

The only thing that can and will happen at this point is we define what a transgender person is, What gender identity is, and what the transition stages are. Then how they apply to our public facilities and schools.

Conservatives are not going to be able dismiss the rights of transgenders by labeling them sick and transgenders are not going to get absolute freedom to use facilities of the opposite sex.

I disagree. They have the same symptoms of any other body dysmorphic disorder. What do you think makes it any different?

It's different because it has a cultural and sociological impact and doesn't produce self harm like eating disorders. You can argue that transition surgery is self harm but they can argue that it is no more than legal cosmetic surgery which is a valid point

 

[Slade3200]

Vague and unspecific. How do you force a trans child into "conforming", Puppy?

And, naturally, you're still dodging the facts about what actual medical professionals recommend. What do they recommend, Puppy? (I'll give you a hint, it's the exact opposite of what you would say or do)

They recommend treating the mental illness. Those that aren't afraid of having their careers destroyed by false accusations from the queer lynch mob anyway. It's ok wytchy - you can't handle reality but the rest of us will handle it for you. You just sit back and let the sane, rational adults handle things.

So all mental illness get's treated the same, Puppy? Keep ducking and dodging reality.

How would you force conformity, Puppy? You're still not answering.

And what about people who believe they are really animals? Surgery for them too?

What do doctors recommend?

Children can in fact be pressured into things. They are VERY impressionable, especially impressed by those who are their elders and in a position of authority over them.

And you're an idiot if you think parents are responsible for trans kids.

How do you force a trans kid to not be trans?

So, if your child has a body dysmorphic disorder in which he feels he should be crippled, would you recommend that he have his legs broken?

Crippling or starving a child is quite different than letting a child wear a dress and grow their hair out. You aren't making fair comparisons

 

[Bob Blaylock]

You don't realize that it is calling people in the LGBT community "perverts" that makes you a bigot?

It's an objective fact. The word “pervert” has an objective meaning, and homosexuals, “transgenders”, and other similar degenerates fit that meaning perfectly.

Only to a brainwashed wrong-wing scumbag does objective truth constitute “bigotry”.

 

[P@triot]

you're an idiot if you think parents are responsible for trans kids.

How do you force a trans kid to not be trans?

OK smarty pants. Put your money where your mouth is. If you think that parents aren't responsible for coercion to drug and amputate children, then they should feel exquisitely comfortable on the shrink's couch before Jr. comes in for his turn. Right? No worries. After all, when thoroughly screening a child for mental issues around rejecting his gender, no stone can be left unturned. That's how the law reads, right? Before they can get clearance to have an MD write an illegal prescription for adolescence-blocking hormones, against the approved use of those drugs...

Mom, Dad, Uncle Jim and Aunt Sally should all be more than happy to help give psychiatrists the most complete picture possible on treating the patient....yes? After all, you know how reticent children are to speak up. The adults could really steer the shrink in the right direction.

If they'd done this with "Jazz", they'd have found out that after having two other boys, the mother really REALLY wanted a girl for her third and last child. They'd have noticed the little boy being dressed as a girl long before a child or a toddler's or infant's age could process that type of stuff...all the pink frilly stuff in his room from way before an age where a child even cares about that crap...unless he's picked up on a thousand subtle and not so subtle cues that "if I want attention as the third of three boys...I'd better start acting like and saying I'm a girl"..

1.) Exceptional post Silhoutte

2.) Don't you know better than to use logic and reason with wytchy? She doesn't like facts. They don't fit her bizarre ideology.

 

[P@triot]

You don't realize that it is calling people in the LGBT community "perverts" that makes you a bigot?

You don't realize that it is falsely accusing people of being a "bigot" all the time that has rendered that word meaningless and useless?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Great, go exercise your freedom to break the law and see how it works out for you

Now you know how it will be when trans women exercise their freedom to go into the women's bathroom. You're inviting trouble.

 

[Slade3200]

You don't realize that it is calling people in the LGBT community "perverts" that makes you a bigot?

It's an objective fact. The word “pervert” has an objective meaning, and homosexuals, “transgenders”, and other similar degenerates fit that meaning perfectly.

Only to a brainwashed wrong-wing scumbag does objective truth constitute “bigotry”.

Haha, in the process of trying to justify his use of pervert as a non bigotry remark he blows it by calling them degenerates. The dipshit just can't help himself

 

[MaryL]

Here is a new idea: no more gender specific restrooms, we have individual toilets with locks on the doors. That is what this silly issue is coming down to. The number of handicapped people in our society merits special facilities, but the number of transsexuals is so small as to not merit serious attention, Why is this a serious issue?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Men in women's bathrooms"

Is just as much a ridiculous rightwing lie today as it was in April.

 

[TemplarKormac]

If we were a tribe made up of male hunters and female gathers but there were a few crossovers, that society can either embrace or reject the out layers.

outliers*

"If" and "were" are not good foundations for a position. We have a far more advanced social system. In that case it wouldn't matter, perhaps, because everyone has to eat. Social politics are the last thing on their minds. Back here in the real world, people have a reasonable expectation to privacy, which you want to circumvent by forcing our society to embrace such outliers.

You reject them because of anatomy, we accept them based on their identity.

I reject them for both. If they have the wrong anatomy in the women's bathroom, they need to get the hell out. I don't care what their "identity" is. Spare me the "angel of mercy" routine.

What's the harm in letting people just be who they want to be?

Because it could be potentially dangerous? I wonder what would happen if we let a murdering psychopath be who he wants to be?

So what? That has nothing to do with the argument.

It has plenty to do with it. You just don't want to acknowledge the facts.