Michigan police reform bill to requires ‘jiu jitsu’ blue belt for all officers

[Godboy]

I'm certainly not against this idea; it would be great, but you simply can't attain any skill without time on the mat. And being a cop is a job, you have to pay these people for their time, both in the academy and later, and time on the mat rolling, is not time on the street patrolling.

I just don't think any city is going to spend the money.

Yeah, that is the problem. Unless youre going to a "McDojo", its going to take 2 or 3 years to get a blue belt. Also, not every person will obtain a blue belt. It doesnt matter if you spend 20 years grappling, if you arent good enough to be a blue belt, they wont give you one. There are no participation prizes in BJJ. They take that shit seriously.

 

[Godboy]

I am sure that is in addition to carrying a gun. Today's marines have to take MAPS courses and likely end up with a blue belt. Not sure on what belt level they aquire. My eldest son was a MAPS instructor at 29 pines California for 14 years he would know. A blue belt out of the Gracie school would be pretty bad ass. Look into Gracie fights back in the mid to late 90s he flat whipped much larger opponents..

The Brazilian form of judo...right?

Ya, it is much more difficult to raise in belt level at the Gracie schools. My son got to black belt in Irving school pretty rapidly. Took a long time for him to get there in Gracie school. Both those checks I used to write sure put a whole in my wallet. Add into that a daughter in competition gymnastics and ballet was not much entertainment money left for dad. Lol

Your son has a Gracie black belt? Under which Gracie?

Relson is the guy for our area. GUY With last name Geisler was the guy that taught class from day to day. My son also did Roman Greco-Roman wrestling with Mark Coleman. I did not have to pay for that he was our neighbor for a good many years.

Relson!? Sheesh, theres a name! Relson isnt handing out black belts to anyone who doesnt deserve it. None of the Gracies would. You can still find Relson wrecking young grapplers on youtube. He doesnt have strength and speed anymore, but he has perfect technique. He makes it look effortless.

Coleman would be an outstanding Greco coach!

Coleman is who lit the fire for my son. Having him as a neighbor got him interested. Fighting sports were not my thing I was into hunting, fishing, golf, baseball and basketball. Zane did not take to sports including balls. He did do alot of hunting and fishing with me though.

Coleman was a beast in his Pride days!

There's no better base than freestyle wrestling.

And being big and strong as fuck helps too, lol.

Greco Roman is pretty good too when youre fighting in a cage. The majority of take downs in MMA are from sweeps (with double under hooks) against the cage, as opposed to blast double's or single's in the middle of the octagon.

Regardless, wrestling is definitely the best base for MMA. Most UFC Champions (current AND former) are wrestlers. They have the best cardio and the most heart, and as Rogan has repeated a million times "they dictate where the fight takes place".

I came from a striking base and got into grappling later, but even today, my go to move when someone would get crazy and violent at the hospital was to put them on the floor and restrain them. Safer for everyone, and if I was to hit them, we'd just get sued.
I use a lot of Judo techniques, but does it matter?

Any grappling style will work just fine.

Judo is a GREAT martial art. There are a million bullshit ones, like kung fu, but not judo. There is nothing better looking than a judoka cartwheeling someone in the air with a hip throw.

 

[Canon Shooter]

So the defund the police wants cops to go hand to hand combat now?

sounds reasonable,, it gives them an edge

Uhm we have female cops now they can't use it on a string out person on drugs

maybe,, but we do have cases where two full grown men cant take down a single person,,

and a women would benefit greatly from the training,, it teaches a smaller person how to overpower a larger one,,

I see it as a good thing and another tool in the toolbox of law enforcement,,

Just pull out the gun and shoot to kill

Anyone who "shoots to kill" is improperly trained.

You never "shoot to kill". You shoot in order to stop the behavior which caused you to draw your weapon...

 

[Godboy]

So the defund the police wants cops to go hand to hand combat now?

sounds reasonable,, it gives them an edge

Uhm we have female cops now they can't use it on a string out person on drugs

maybe,, but we do have cases where two full grown men cant take down a single person,,

and a women would benefit greatly from the training,, it teaches a smaller person how to overpower a larger one,,

I see it as a good thing and another tool in the toolbox of law enforcement,,

Just pull out the gun and shoot to kill

Anyone who "shoots to kill" is improperly trained.

You never "shoot to kill". You shoot in order to stop the behavior which caused you to draw your weapon...

That is absolutely NOT true. Not only are cops trained to kill when they fire their weapon, civilians should only shoot to kill as well. Dont worry about how many bullets you put in your attacker, just as long as he dies. You never try to "wing" someone, like in the movies. Guns are not designed to be non lethal.

 

[progressive hunter]

So the defund the police wants cops to go hand to hand combat now?

sounds reasonable,, it gives them an edge

Uhm we have female cops now they can't use it on a string out person on drugs

maybe,, but we do have cases where two full grown men cant take down a single person,,

and a women would benefit greatly from the training,, it teaches a smaller person how to overpower a larger one,,

I see it as a good thing and another tool in the toolbox of law enforcement,,

Just pull out the gun and shoot to kill

Anyone who "shoots to kill" is improperly trained.

You never "shoot to kill". You shoot in order to stop the behavior which caused you to draw your weapon...

That is absolutely NOT true. Not only are cops trained to kill when they fire their weapon, civilians should only shoot to kill as well. Dont worry about how many bullets you put in your attacker, just as long as he dies. You never try to "wing" someone, like in the movies. Guns are not designed to be non lethal.

then why after they shoot them do they give life saving aid to them??
if what you say is true they would just walk away and wait for clean up,,

they shoot to stop the threat and the best way is to shoot center mass,,

 

[freyasman]

I'm certainly not against this idea; it would be great, but you simply can't attain any skill without time on the mat. And being a cop is a job, you have to pay these people for their time, both in the academy and later, and time on the mat rolling, is not time on the street patrolling.

I just don't think any city is going to spend the money.

Yeah, that is the problem. Unless youre going to a "McDojo", its going to take 2 or 3 years to get a blue belt. Also, not every person will obtain a blue belt. It doesnt matter if you spend 20 years grappling, if you arent good enough to be a blue belt, they wont give you one. There are no participation prizes in BJJ. They take that shit seriously.

When I got into grappling, it was because I was bouncing drunks and wanted to be able to end a fight without beating the living shit out of someone...... I needed to learn how to choke people. (I also learned that a quick foot sweep will put a drunk on the ground and they usually have a hard time getting back up.)
A couple years later, the first UFC came out, and all of a sudden everyone wants to learn BJJ, but there weren't hardly any schools for it around then.
I had just joined the Army, and Ft Bragg had a wrestling team and they let me train with them. (translation: I was a 180lb grappling dummy) I learned a lot, really fast, though. Then I found a judo club off post and started learning some submissions and throws, (and in a real confrontation, a well-executed throw will usually end the incident, or at least give you an opportunity to get away.)
Anyway, as more and more BJJ clubs started showing up, and as it was spreading through the Army, the little bit of wrestling and judo I had done was a big help when I rolled with them. And I still regularly surprise BJJ guys with throws....... a lot of them really should spend more time working their throws.

 

[Canon Shooter]

So the defund the police wants cops to go hand to hand combat now?

sounds reasonable,, it gives them an edge

Uhm we have female cops now they can't use it on a string out person on drugs

maybe,, but we do have cases where two full grown men cant take down a single person,,

and a women would benefit greatly from the training,, it teaches a smaller person how to overpower a larger one,,

I see it as a good thing and another tool in the toolbox of law enforcement,,

Just pull out the gun and shoot to kill

Anyone who "shoots to kill" is improperly trained.

You never "shoot to kill". You shoot in order to stop the behavior which caused you to draw your weapon...

That is absolutely NOT true. Not only are cops trained to kill when they fire their weapon, civilians should only shoot to kill as well. Dont worry about how many bullets you put in your attacker, just as long as he dies. You never try to "wing" someone, like in the movies. Guns are not designed to be non lethal.

You're wrong.

Police are trained to shoot to terminate the threat. In this case, "terminate" does not mean "kill" it means to put an end to the threat. If a suspect is shot and, upon falling to the ground he drops his weapon, the threat is over. The threat has been terminated. There's no reason for the cop to continue shooting the suspect, even if the suspect is still alive

Do you know what the definition for "deadly force" is?

And I never said anything about trying to "wing" anyone. Double tap, center mass. That means you fire two rounds into the largest portion of the body, which is the torso. If the suspect is still standing, you double tap him again. You do that until he's no longer a threat. That may well result in the person's death, but the policeman's goal isn't to kill the suspect, it's to stop the suspect...

 

[Godboy]

So the defund the police wants cops to go hand to hand combat now?

sounds reasonable,, it gives them an edge

Uhm we have female cops now they can't use it on a string out person on drugs

maybe,, but we do have cases where two full grown men cant take down a single person,,

and a women would benefit greatly from the training,, it teaches a smaller person how to overpower a larger one,,

I see it as a good thing and another tool in the toolbox of law enforcement,,

Just pull out the gun and shoot to kill

Anyone who "shoots to kill" is improperly trained.

You never "shoot to kill". You shoot in order to stop the behavior which caused you to draw your weapon...

That is absolutely NOT true. Not only are cops trained to kill when they fire their weapon, civilians should only shoot to kill as well. Dont worry about how many bullets you put in your attacker, just as long as he dies. You never try to "wing" someone, like in the movies. Guns are not designed to be non lethal.

then why after they shoot them do they give life saving aid to them??
if what you say is true they would just walk away and wait for clean up,,

they shoot to stop the threat and the best way is to shoot center mass,,

God youre dumb. How about instead of arguing with me, go look it up yourself. You let me know if you find anything that doesnt say "cops are only supposed to shoot to kill". You wont find a single department in the nation who doesnt shoot to kill. The stun gun is for getting compliance, their handgun is for killing.

 

[freyasman]

I am sure that is in addition to carrying a gun. Today's marines have to take MAPS courses and likely end up with a blue belt. Not sure on what belt level they aquire. My eldest son was a MAPS instructor at 29 pines California for 14 years he would know. A blue belt out of the Gracie school would be pretty bad ass. Look into Gracie fights back in the mid to late 90s he flat whipped much larger opponents..

The Brazilian form of judo...right?

Ya, it is much more difficult to raise in belt level at the Gracie schools. My son got to black belt in Irving school pretty rapidly. Took a long time for him to get there in Gracie school. Both those checks I used to write sure put a whole in my wallet. Add into that a daughter in competition gymnastics and ballet was not much entertainment money left for dad. Lol

Your son has a Gracie black belt? Under which Gracie?

Relson is the guy for our area. GUY With last name Geisler was the guy that taught class from day to day. My son also did Roman Greco-Roman wrestling with Mark Coleman. I did not have to pay for that he was our neighbor for a good many years.

Relson!? Sheesh, theres a name! Relson isnt handing out black belts to anyone who doesnt deserve it. None of the Gracies would. You can still find Relson wrecking young grapplers on youtube. He doesnt have strength and speed anymore, but he has perfect technique. He makes it look effortless.

Coleman would be an outstanding Greco coach!

Coleman is who lit the fire for my son. Having him as a neighbor got him interested. Fighting sports were not my thing I was into hunting, fishing, golf, baseball and basketball. Zane did not take to sports including balls. He did do alot of hunting and fishing with me though.

Coleman was a beast in his Pride days!

There's no better base than freestyle wrestling.

And being big and strong as fuck helps too, lol.

Greco Roman is pretty good too when youre fighting in a cage. The majority of take downs in MMA are from sweeps (with double under hooks) against the cage, as opposed to blast double's or single's in the middle of the octagon.

Regardless, wrestling is definitely the best base for MMA. Most UFC Champions (current AND former) are wrestlers. They have the best cardio and the most heart, and as Rogan has repeated a million times "they dictate where the fight takes place".

I came from a striking base and got into grappling later, but even today, my go to move when someone would get crazy and violent at the hospital was to put them on the floor and restrain them. Safer for everyone, and if I was to hit them, we'd just get sued.
I use a lot of Judo techniques, but does it matter?

Any grappling style will work just fine.

Judo is a GREAT martial art. There are a million bullshit ones, like kung fu, but not judo. There is nothing better looking than a judoka cartwheeling someone in the air with a hip throw.

I hit a hikikome gaeshi throw in the wild one night last year; guy was in LE custody and made a run for it when they uncuffed him to use the bathroom. I clinched him up and held him but the cop couldn't get the cuffs on him so I told him to let go for a second and then threw the guy. He was a lot easier to cuff when he was on the ground.

I use the belt grab over the back.

 

[progressive hunter]

So the defund the police wants cops to go hand to hand combat now?

sounds reasonable,, it gives them an edge

Uhm we have female cops now they can't use it on a string out person on drugs

maybe,, but we do have cases where two full grown men cant take down a single person,,

and a women would benefit greatly from the training,, it teaches a smaller person how to overpower a larger one,,

I see it as a good thing and another tool in the toolbox of law enforcement,,

Just pull out the gun and shoot to kill

Anyone who "shoots to kill" is improperly trained.

You never "shoot to kill". You shoot in order to stop the behavior which caused you to draw your weapon...

That is absolutely NOT true. Not only are cops trained to kill when they fire their weapon, civilians should only shoot to kill as well. Dont worry about how many bullets you put in your attacker, just as long as he dies. You never try to "wing" someone, like in the movies. Guns are not designed to be non lethal.

then why after they shoot them do they give life saving aid to them??
if what you say is true they would just walk away and wait for clean up,,

they shoot to stop the threat and the best way is to shoot center mass,,

God youre dumb. How about instead of arguing with me, go look it up yourself. You let me know if you find anything that doesnt say "cops are only supposed to shoot to kill". You wont find a single department in the nation who doesnt shoot to kill. The stun gun is for getting compliance, their handgun is for killing.

you would do better to back up what you said than have me go looking for something that doesnt exist,,,

I noticed you ignored my points,,

 

[Canon Shooter]

You let me know if you find anything that doesnt say "cops are only supposed to shoot to kill".

That's ignorant. You're asking for proof of something that doesn't exist.

I spent time in military law enforcement. Our deadly force training was exactly the same as what the San Diego Police Department and California Highway Patrol received.

Show me where either is trained to shoot to kill. What doctrine dictates it?

 

[Godboy]

I'm certainly not against this idea; it would be great, but you simply can't attain any skill without time on the mat. And being a cop is a job, you have to pay these people for their time, both in the academy and later, and time on the mat rolling, is not time on the street patrolling.

I just don't think any city is going to spend the money.

Yeah, that is the problem. Unless youre going to a "McDojo", its going to take 2 or 3 years to get a blue belt. Also, not every person will obtain a blue belt. It doesnt matter if you spend 20 years grappling, if you arent good enough to be a blue belt, they wont give you one. There are no participation prizes in BJJ. They take that shit seriously.

When I got into grappling, it was because I was bouncing drunks and wanted to be able to end a fight without beating the living shit out of someone...... I needed to learn how to choke people. (I also learned that a quick foot sweep will put a drunk on the ground and they usually have a hard time getting back up.)
A couple years later, the first UFC came out, and all of a sudden everyone wants to learn BJJ, but there weren't hardly any schools for it around then.
I had just joined the Army, and Ft Bragg had a wrestling team and they let me train with them. (translation: I was a 180lb grappling dummy) I learned a lot, really fast, though. Then I found a judo club off post and started learning some submissions and throws, (and in a real confrontation, a well-executed throw will usually end the incident, or at least give you an opportunity to get away.)
Anyway, as more and more BJJ clubs started showing up, and as it was spreading through the Army, the little bit of wrestling and judo I had done was a big help when I rolled with them. And I still regularly surprise BJJ guys with throws....... a lot of them really should spend more time working their throws.

In the early 90's you could only train BJJ in NY and California. There were only a couple schools at that time. Now they are EVERYWHERE!

BJJ guys have the best submission techniques by far, but their take downs have always been pretty terrible. In Brazil, they didnt have judokas or wrestlers showing them how to get the fight to the ground, so they mostly just hung on and then dragged people down to the mat. It works against regular Joe's, but not so much against athletes.

 

[freyasman]

I'm certainly not against this idea; it would be great, but you simply can't attain any skill without time on the mat. And being a cop is a job, you have to pay these people for their time, both in the academy and later, and time on the mat rolling, is not time on the street patrolling.

I just don't think any city is going to spend the money.

Yeah, that is the problem. Unless youre going to a "McDojo", its going to take 2 or 3 years to get a blue belt. Also, not every person will obtain a blue belt. It doesnt matter if you spend 20 years grappling, if you arent good enough to be a blue belt, they wont give you one. There are no participation prizes in BJJ. They take that shit seriously.

When I got into grappling, it was because I was bouncing drunks and wanted to be able to end a fight without beating the living shit out of someone...... I needed to learn how to choke people. (I also learned that a quick foot sweep will put a drunk on the ground and they usually have a hard time getting back up.)
A couple years later, the first UFC came out, and all of a sudden everyone wants to learn BJJ, but there weren't hardly any schools for it around then.
I had just joined the Army, and Ft Bragg had a wrestling team and they let me train with them. (translation: I was a 180lb grappling dummy) I learned a lot, really fast, though. Then I found a judo club off post and started learning some submissions and throws, (and in a real confrontation, a well-executed throw will usually end the incident, or at least give you an opportunity to get away.)
Anyway, as more and more BJJ clubs started showing up, and as it was spreading through the Army, the little bit of wrestling and judo I had done was a big help when I rolled with them. And I still regularly surprise BJJ guys with throws....... a lot of them really should spend more time working their throws.

In the early 90's you could only train BJJ in NY and California. There were only a couple schools at that time. Now they are EVERYWHERE!

BJJ guys have the best submission techniques by far, but their take downs have always been pretty terrible. In Brazil, they didnt have judokas or wrestlers showing them how to get the fight to the ground, so they mostly just hung on and then dragged people down to the mat. It works against regular Joe's, but not so much against athletes.

Well, it also depends on the environment; in a hot area, people wear less clothing and it tends to be very light, thin clothing. A lot of Judo is dependent on grabbing sleeves and lapels, and them being made of strong enough material that it doesn't just tear right off.
All of this stuff makes a difference.

 

[Godboy]

So the defund the police wants cops to go hand to hand combat now?

sounds reasonable,, it gives them an edge

Uhm we have female cops now they can't use it on a string out person on drugs

maybe,, but we do have cases where two full grown men cant take down a single person,,

and a women would benefit greatly from the training,, it teaches a smaller person how to overpower a larger one,,

I see it as a good thing and another tool in the toolbox of law enforcement,,

Just pull out the gun and shoot to kill

Anyone who "shoots to kill" is improperly trained.

You never "shoot to kill". You shoot in order to stop the behavior which caused you to draw your weapon...

That is absolutely NOT true. Not only are cops trained to kill when they fire their weapon, civilians should only shoot to kill as well. Dont worry about how many bullets you put in your attacker, just as long as he dies. You never try to "wing" someone, like in the movies. Guns are not designed to be non lethal.

You're wrong.

Police are trained to shoot to terminate the threat. In this case, "terminate" does not mean "kill" it means to put an end to the threat. If a suspect is shot and, upon falling to the ground he drops his weapon, the threat is over. The threat has been terminated. There's no reason for the cop to continue shooting the suspect, even if the suspect is still alive

Do you know what the definition for "deadly force" is?

And I never said anything about trying to "wing" anyone. Double tap, center mass. That means you fire two rounds into the largest portion of the body, which is the torso. If the suspect is still standing, you double tap him again. You do that until he's no longer a threat. That may well result in the person's death, but the policeman's goal isn't to kill the suspect, it's to stop the suspect...

This ^ list of nonsense is not taught at any police station in the nation. Where the fuck did you come up with that? Ive seen many videos of cops shooting people who are on the ground, after already being shot.

At 16:20, this cop is about to make a miraculous shot, which drops the guy instantly. Now do a count of how many shots came AFTER he was down from the first devastating shot. They light this motherfucker up for a couple minutes.

 

[progressive hunter]

So the defund the police wants cops to go hand to hand combat now?

sounds reasonable,, it gives them an edge

Uhm we have female cops now they can't use it on a string out person on drugs

maybe,, but we do have cases where two full grown men cant take down a single person,,

and a women would benefit greatly from the training,, it teaches a smaller person how to overpower a larger one,,

I see it as a good thing and another tool in the toolbox of law enforcement,,

Just pull out the gun and shoot to kill

Anyone who "shoots to kill" is improperly trained.

You never "shoot to kill". You shoot in order to stop the behavior which caused you to draw your weapon...

That is absolutely NOT true. Not only are cops trained to kill when they fire their weapon, civilians should only shoot to kill as well. Dont worry about how many bullets you put in your attacker, just as long as he dies. You never try to "wing" someone, like in the movies. Guns are not designed to be non lethal.

You're wrong.

Police are trained to shoot to terminate the threat. In this case, "terminate" does not mean "kill" it means to put an end to the threat. If a suspect is shot and, upon falling to the ground he drops his weapon, the threat is over. The threat has been terminated. There's no reason for the cop to continue shooting the suspect, even if the suspect is still alive

Do you know what the definition for "deadly force" is?

And I never said anything about trying to "wing" anyone. Double tap, center mass. That means you fire two rounds into the largest portion of the body, which is the torso. If the suspect is still standing, you double tap him again. You do that until he's no longer a threat. That may well result in the person's death, but the policeman's goal isn't to kill the suspect, it's to stop the suspect...

This ^ list of nonsense is not taught at any police station in the nation. Where the fuck did you come up with that? Ive seen many videos of cops shooting people who are on the ground, after already being shot.

At 16:20, this cop is about to make a miraculous shot, which drops the guy instantly. Now do a count of how many shots came AFTER he was down from the first devastating shot. They light this motherfucker up for a couple minutes.

you said their job is to shoot to kill,, so back it up, show me where in the law or their job description thats what they are supposed to do,,

 

[Godboy]

I'm certainly not against this idea; it would be great, but you simply can't attain any skill without time on the mat. And being a cop is a job, you have to pay these people for their time, both in the academy and later, and time on the mat rolling, is not time on the street patrolling.

I just don't think any city is going to spend the money.

Yeah, that is the problem. Unless youre going to a "McDojo", its going to take 2 or 3 years to get a blue belt. Also, not every person will obtain a blue belt. It doesnt matter if you spend 20 years grappling, if you arent good enough to be a blue belt, they wont give you one. There are no participation prizes in BJJ. They take that shit seriously.

When I got into grappling, it was because I was bouncing drunks and wanted to be able to end a fight without beating the living shit out of someone...... I needed to learn how to choke people. (I also learned that a quick foot sweep will put a drunk on the ground and they usually have a hard time getting back up.)
A couple years later, the first UFC came out, and all of a sudden everyone wants to learn BJJ, but there weren't hardly any schools for it around then.
I had just joined the Army, and Ft Bragg had a wrestling team and they let me train with them. (translation: I was a 180lb grappling dummy) I learned a lot, really fast, though. Then I found a judo club off post and started learning some submissions and throws, (and in a real confrontation, a well-executed throw will usually end the incident, or at least give you an opportunity to get away.)
Anyway, as more and more BJJ clubs started showing up, and as it was spreading through the Army, the little bit of wrestling and judo I had done was a big help when I rolled with them. And I still regularly surprise BJJ guys with throws....... a lot of them really should spend more time working their throws.

In the early 90's you could only train BJJ in NY and California. There were only a couple schools at that time. Now they are EVERYWHERE!

BJJ guys have the best submission techniques by far, but their take downs have always been pretty terrible. In Brazil, they didnt have judokas or wrestlers showing them how to get the fight to the ground, so they mostly just hung on and then dragged people down to the mat. It works against regular Joe's, but not so much against athletes.

Well, it also depends on the environment; in a hot area, people wear less clothing and it tends to be very light, thin clothing. A lot of Judo is dependent on grabbing sleeves and lapels, and them being made of strong enough material that it doesn't just tear right off.
All of this stuff makes a difference.

Thats where Greco Roman shines. Its all upper body take downs, no clothes required. Judo has head and arm throws too, which dont require you to grab the lapel. Hell, Rhonda Rousey made her career with that throw.

 

[Godboy]

So the defund the police wants cops to go hand to hand combat now?

sounds reasonable,, it gives them an edge

Uhm we have female cops now they can't use it on a string out person on drugs

maybe,, but we do have cases where two full grown men cant take down a single person,,

and a women would benefit greatly from the training,, it teaches a smaller person how to overpower a larger one,,

I see it as a good thing and another tool in the toolbox of law enforcement,,

Just pull out the gun and shoot to kill

Anyone who "shoots to kill" is improperly trained.

You never "shoot to kill". You shoot in order to stop the behavior which caused you to draw your weapon...

That is absolutely NOT true. Not only are cops trained to kill when they fire their weapon, civilians should only shoot to kill as well. Dont worry about how many bullets you put in your attacker, just as long as he dies. You never try to "wing" someone, like in the movies. Guns are not designed to be non lethal.

You're wrong.

Police are trained to shoot to terminate the threat. In this case, "terminate" does not mean "kill" it means to put an end to the threat. If a suspect is shot and, upon falling to the ground he drops his weapon, the threat is over. The threat has been terminated. There's no reason for the cop to continue shooting the suspect, even if the suspect is still alive

Do you know what the definition for "deadly force" is?

And I never said anything about trying to "wing" anyone. Double tap, center mass. That means you fire two rounds into the largest portion of the body, which is the torso. If the suspect is still standing, you double tap him again. You do that until he's no longer a threat. That may well result in the person's death, but the policeman's goal isn't to kill the suspect, it's to stop the suspect...

This ^ list of nonsense is not taught at any police station in the nation. Where the fuck did you come up with that? Ive seen many videos of cops shooting people who are on the ground, after already being shot.

At 16:20, this cop is about to make a miraculous shot, which drops the guy instantly. Now do a count of how many shots came AFTER he was down from the first devastating shot. They light this motherfucker up for a couple minutes.

you said their job is to shoot to kill,, so back it up, show me where in the law or their job description thats what they are supposed to do,,

When police believe a suspect could harm or kill them, they're usually trained to fire as many gunshots as it takes to bring that suspect down.

Why police shoot so many times to bring down a suspect | CNN

Police shootings are usually high-stress situations where adrenaline takes over an officer's response -- but some factors explain why officers shoot as many times as they do.

www.cnn.com

 

[Canon Shooter]

So the defund the police wants cops to go hand to hand combat now?

sounds reasonable,, it gives them an edge

Uhm we have female cops now they can't use it on a string out person on drugs

maybe,, but we do have cases where two full grown men cant take down a single person,,

and a women would benefit greatly from the training,, it teaches a smaller person how to overpower a larger one,,

I see it as a good thing and another tool in the toolbox of law enforcement,,

Just pull out the gun and shoot to kill

Anyone who "shoots to kill" is improperly trained.

You never "shoot to kill". You shoot in order to stop the behavior which caused you to draw your weapon...

That is absolutely NOT true. Not only are cops trained to kill when they fire their weapon, civilians should only shoot to kill as well. Dont worry about how many bullets you put in your attacker, just as long as he dies. You never try to "wing" someone, like in the movies. Guns are not designed to be non lethal.

You're wrong.

Police are trained to shoot to terminate the threat. In this case, "terminate" does not mean "kill" it means to put an end to the threat. If a suspect is shot and, upon falling to the ground he drops his weapon, the threat is over. The threat has been terminated. There's no reason for the cop to continue shooting the suspect, even if the suspect is still alive

Do you know what the definition for "deadly force" is?

And I never said anything about trying to "wing" anyone. Double tap, center mass. That means you fire two rounds into the largest portion of the body, which is the torso. If the suspect is still standing, you double tap him again. You do that until he's no longer a threat. That may well result in the person's death, but the policeman's goal isn't to kill the suspect, it's to stop the suspect...

This ^ list of nonsense is not taught at any police station in the nation. Where the fuck did you come up with that? Ive seen many videos of cops shooting people who are on the ground, after already being shot.

At 16:20, this cop is about to make a miraculous shot, which drops the guy instantly. Now do a count of how many shots came AFTER he was down from the first devastating shot. They light this motherfucker up for a couple minutes.

I'm not going to argue about this. You're 100% wrong.

That you believe that your experience watching "many videos" trumps training offered by the California Highway Patrol is outright laughable.

Seriously, just stop. You're gonna' make yourself look foolish in a hurry...

 

[freyasman]

I'm certainly not against this idea; it would be great, but you simply can't attain any skill without time on the mat. And being a cop is a job, you have to pay these people for their time, both in the academy and later, and time on the mat rolling, is not time on the street patrolling.

I just don't think any city is going to spend the money.

Yeah, that is the problem. Unless youre going to a "McDojo", its going to take 2 or 3 years to get a blue belt. Also, not every person will obtain a blue belt. It doesnt matter if you spend 20 years grappling, if you arent good enough to be a blue belt, they wont give you one. There are no participation prizes in BJJ. They take that shit seriously.

When I got into grappling, it was because I was bouncing drunks and wanted to be able to end a fight without beating the living shit out of someone...... I needed to learn how to choke people. (I also learned that a quick foot sweep will put a drunk on the ground and they usually have a hard time getting back up.)
A couple years later, the first UFC came out, and all of a sudden everyone wants to learn BJJ, but there weren't hardly any schools for it around then.
I had just joined the Army, and Ft Bragg had a wrestling team and they let me train with them. (translation: I was a 180lb grappling dummy) I learned a lot, really fast, though. Then I found a judo club off post and started learning some submissions and throws, (and in a real confrontation, a well-executed throw will usually end the incident, or at least give you an opportunity to get away.)
Anyway, as more and more BJJ clubs started showing up, and as it was spreading through the Army, the little bit of wrestling and judo I had done was a big help when I rolled with them. And I still regularly surprise BJJ guys with throws....... a lot of them really should spend more time working their throws.

In the early 90's you could only train BJJ in NY and California. There were only a couple schools at that time. Now they are EVERYWHERE!

BJJ guys have the best submission techniques by far, but their take downs have always been pretty terrible. In Brazil, they didnt have judokas or wrestlers showing them how to get the fight to the ground, so they mostly just hung on and then dragged people down to the mat. It works against regular Joe's, but not so much against athletes.

Well, it also depends on the environment; in a hot area, people wear less clothing and it tends to be very light, thin clothing. A lot of Judo is dependent on grabbing sleeves and lapels, and them being made of strong enough material that it doesn't just tear right off.
All of this stuff makes a difference.

Thats where Greco Roman shines. Its all upper body take downs, no clothes required. Judo has head and arm throws too, which dont require you to grab the lapel. Hell, Rhonda Rousey made her career with that throw.

Agreed.
But you can see why some styles are more prolific in certain areas.

 

[Godboy]

You let me know if you find anything that doesnt say "cops are only supposed to shoot to kill".

That's ignorant. You're asking for proof of something that doesn't exist.

I spent time in military law enforcement. Our deadly force training was exactly the same as what the San Diego Police Department and California Highway Patrol received.

Show me where either is trained to shoot to kill. What doctrine dictates it?

The supreme court ruled that cops can shoot to kill when they fear death or injury from a violent suspect. This isnt a secret.