Miracles are proof of SOMETHING!

[alang1216]

To walk with God. To become the best version of yourself. To choose to be virtuous. To find peace through the storm. To have faith that good comes from bad.

So no different than Judaism or Islam then?

 

[ding]

So no different than Judaism or Islam then?

Not for those who walk with God.

 

[Hollie]

Three children in Fatima, Portugal were given a day where a sign would be given. It is called the Miracle of the Sun. However, I expect that you will say it is pure coincidence this happened on the day the children said it would.

What was the “miracle”? Are you surprised that an overwhelmingly Roman Catholic society would associate a "miracle" with particular gods? Are you surprised that "miracles" recounted by cultures with gods in competition with your gods are performed by culturally appropriate gods?

The only way to explain "miracles" is to invoke the power of one or more gods. Which gods were a party to the "Fatima "miraacle? Miracles are not allowed for science to remain science. Miracles are not testable, verifiable, or falsifiable. They do not conform to any laws of nature, they are not repeatable, or even understandable. Science can never confirm them and neither can the miracle'ists. They are not a matter for science. Science looks for regular patterns in nature for its explanations. Once you have used a miracle as an explanation, you have left the realm of science, and waved the magic wand of religion.

So, by way of example, let's pick another claim to a "miracle"…. Say, Muhammad’s splitting of the moon for one example.

At the time the moon was supposedly split, it would have been visible to roughly one half of the people living on the planet. Many of those people (China, India, Persia for examples) were the most advanced astronomers of their day. Yet none of them noticed what would have been the most astounding astronomical event in recorded human history.

Therefore, the “historical record” is that such a thing never happened. It is only (and exclusively) a Muslim myth.

The same process can be performed with any alleged miracle. Some will be less conclusive than this, but none will meet the standards of acceptance as a “historical fact.”

 

[alang1216]

Not for those who walk with God.

"To walk with God. To become the best version of yourself. To choose to be virtuous. To find peace through the storm. To have faith that good comes from bad."

That sounds like something Jews and Muslims (and probably any religious person) might say. Doesn't seem that Christianity is unique.

 

[Hollie]

Don't overlook the tiny whispers.

Medical science has reliably cured those who hear whispers or even voices loudly barking out commands.

Do psychoactive drugs have the ability to shoo away the gods, or, are there other reasons why the voices disappear when patients are treated with medicines that target specific areas of the brain?

 

[norwegen]

The earliest manuscript of a New Testament text is a business-card-sized fragment from the Gospel of John, Rylands Library Papyrus P52, which may be as early as the first half of the 2nd century.

Thats like 250 years after it supposedly happened.

The first half of the second century is only about 100 years after the fact.

And P52 is a fragment of a copy of the original. As far as we know, the original could have been written three decades or so after the fact.

 

[norwegen]

Miracles were first-century phenomena. Has anyone not noticed in the Bible that converted Jews witnessed miracles?

The prophets were Israel. The gifts were for Israel. It was all for Israel. Nary a word in scripture attests to any of these kinds of things being bestowed on foreigners.

God speaks through Christ now. By Christ alone and by the power of the Holy Spirit has Christianity prevailed on the earth.

 

[Meriweather]

Medical science has reliably cured those who hear whispers or even voices loudly barking out commands.

Good for medical science. However, those are not the whispers I am referencing. Ever read poetry, Shelley Baxter for example?

Lets go sailing, on a sea of dreams,
captivate all the senses...completely.
Complete the dream, the waves whisper.

What say you--shall we rush her in for medical attention?

 

[Meriweather]

That sounds like something Jews and Muslims (and probably any religious person) might say. Doesn't seem that Christianity is unique.

Each of these three religions use a different emphasis on the approach to the One God. For example, Jews learn to know and love God through living His Law. Christians enter this circle by teaching love of God which leads to love of His Law. Notice that Islam's Straight Path to God is through avoidance of certain behaviors: The Straight Path is to avoid crimes against equality, family, humanity, fairness and integrity.

All three faiths have the same goals, that is good behavior and love of God.

 

[Hollie]

Good for medical science. However, those are not the whispers I am referencing. Ever read poetry, Shelley Baxter for example?

Lets go sailing, on a sea of dreams,
captivate all the senses...completely.
Complete the dream, the waves whisper.

What say you--shall we rush her in for medical attention?

That’s nice, but poetry doesn’t whisper into anyone’s ear. One might think of poetry or music as the freest expression of human, contemplative intellect. Aside from “poetic license”, let’s understand that waves don’t literally “whisper” and the fire consuming a building doesn’t literally “lick” the side of that building.

I would, however, suggest competent medical care for anyone who claims to literally hear one or more of the gods speaking to them.

 

[Meriweather]

I would, however, suggest competent medical care for anyone who claims to literally hear one or more of the gods speaking to them.

I take it that in future posts, when I say, Listen to the whispers I need to add "Hollie, I am not referencing literal whispers"?

 

[Hollie]

Each of these three religions use a different emphasis on the approach to the One God. For example, Jews learn to know and love God through living His Law. Christians enter this circle by teaching love of God which leads to love of His Law. Notice that Islam's Straight Path to God is through avoidance of certain behaviors: The Straight Path is to avoid crimes against equality, family, humanity, fairness and integrity.

All three faiths have the same goals, that is good behavior and love of God.

You and a Shia Islamic Mullah have a difference of opinion.



Allah did not create man so that he could have fun. The aim of creation was for mankind to be put to the test through hardship and prayer. An Islamic regime must be serious in every field. There are no jokes in Islam. There is no humor in Islam. There is no fun in Islam. There can be no fun and joy in whatever is serious. Islam does not allow swimming in the sea and is opposed to radio and television serials. Islam, however, allows marksmanship, horseback riding and competition.”
― Ruhollah Khomeini



Not a lot of focus on either good behavior or love of the gods.

 

[Meriweather]

There is no fun in Islam.

I take it you know very few Muslims.

 

[Hollie]

I take it that in future posts, when I say, Listen to the whispers I need to add "Hollie, I am not referencing literal whispers"?

Nope. No need.

Just give me a heads-up if the voices start telling you of the imminent Endtimes and those you need to punish on behalf of the gods.

 

[Hollie]

I take it you know very few Muslims.

I take it you don’t know that Islam corrected the errors and inconsistencies in Christianity.

 

[Meriweather]

Nope. No need.

Then you are missing out. Yes, if your definition of fun is giddiness, capriciousness, or being bubble-headed, you may not find that among Muslims. Otherwise...I recommend a second thought.

 

[Meriweather]

Just give me a heads-up if the voices start telling you of the imminent Endtimes and those you need to punish on behalf of the gods.

I'll do you one better. When I start believing in "End times" I'll let you know. If I were you, I wouldn't begin holding my breath.

By the way, Jesus command was to spread his Good News...not punishment. Amazing what can be heard when one listens.

 

[Meriweather]

I take it you don’t know that Islam corrected the errors and inconsistencies in Christianity.

Sure, I am aware Muslims (and also Jews) believe Christianity contains errors. But then, most are busy living their faith, not mine. We all generally focused on what is right in our own faith, instead of focusing on what is wrong with other faiths. We all subcontract that out to atheists.

 

[Hollie]

I'll do you one better. When I start believing in "End times" I'll let you know. If I were you, I wouldn't begin holding my breath.

By the way, Jesus command was to spread his Good News...not punishment. Amazing what can be heard when one listens.

Well, yeah, but the message of Jesus also came with a rather ominous threat - believeth or else. Yes, it is amazing what one understands when they critique the message.

 

[Meriweather]

Well, yeah, but the message of Jesus also came with a rather ominous threat - believeth or else. Yes, it is amazing what one understands when they critique the message.

When someone warns you something bad may happen if you jump off a bridge or a rooftop, is it a threat or a heads up that the consequences may not be to your liking?

If you have in mind that, "they have already condemned themselves" is is nothing more than someone refusing to wear a coat in cold weather. S/he is condemning herself to being cold.