Missouri Republicans are trying to ban food stamp recipients from buying steak and seafood

[BULLDOG]

Some people might remember my history of being more liberal in the past (high school years). I used to not have a strong opinion on food stamps either way.

Then I got a job working for the now defunct Big Bear grocery store chain. You want to talk about having a paradigm shift.

The first time was this chick who walked in, talking on her cell phone. (cell phones were both rare and expensive in 2001-2002) She rang up cases of Mountain Dew, and Jolt, plus bags of Frito. All with food stamps. Then rang up cases of beer. Meanwhile, she's talking on her phone about how her parents bought her a condo (in an expensive area of town) to live in while she was doing to OSU.

Then another time a lady came in, and she bought a ton of stuff, and got most of it on food stamps. And she looked like she crawled out from under a rock. So I thought, well maybe she really needs it. It was a slow day, and I looked out the window, and saw her climb into a late model mint condition Cadillac. At the time, I was in my 1990 200K+ Mile Chevy Lumina, and I'm working 40 hours for my food.

So... yeah my views on food assistance dramatically hardened.

My view? No food assistance at all. Zero. You want food? You can leave mommy&daddies condo, and waddle your butt to your luxury car, and drive it to the food pantry. There's your free food.

I am not quite so cynical. A lot of people are on food stamps because they can't help the situation they are in. It's not a matter of being lazy or unmotivated, it's just the circumstances of life. I am a truly blessed person who doesn't have to worry about much financially but there was a time in my life where things were much different. I can recall making "ketchup soup" for dinner... (from condiment ketchup packs) If lucky, I had crackers too! It's not fun to be so poor you can't buy basic food.

So I can see where we as a society have a responsibility to do what we can to help those who are truly in need of assistance. The problem is, it has gotten way out of control. A single food stamp recipient in Alabama gets around $200 a month. If you have 3-4 kids you can get up to $1200 a month. Now, I am not what you would call "affluent" or anything, I'm a single person who eats what he likes and I don't spend $200 a month on groceries. And then we have the massive amount of absolute fraud going on that isn't being caught. We've got people selling their food stamps for drugs, using them to barter for things they can't buy with food stamps... people double and triple-dipping, claiming the same kids as dependents... all sorts of scams and cons. None of it is being addressed, we just keep throwing more appropriated billions at it every year.

Here's MY idea... End SNAP entirely. No more Food Stamps. Take 50% of what is currently budgeted for SNAP and send it to the State Agriculture Departments. They will be required to use the money to support a food truck delivery to each county twice a month. The truck will deliver surplus food to a distribution center where poor families and individuals can go and obtain basic food items. [This is actually the system we used before food stamps.]

Yeah, I am cynical. Very cynical. And I should be, and so should any rational American. We're one of the few nations in the world, where "poor people" have a higher obesity rate than any other income class of citizens.

Where are these people that can't help it? I've been working among the poor my whole life. I'll likely only pull $20K this year too. I've met dozens of people who used food stamps. Not once... not one time yet, have I met someone that "couldn't help it".

Where are they? When the Republicans pushed through welfare reform in the 90s, people screamed that all these poor people who "couldn't help it" would be starving and die.

Food stamp rolls fell by almost half, and yet..... no one starved... no one died.... How could that be? Where did all the people who couldn't help it go? Apparently they got jobs, and fed themselves. Apparently..... they COULD help it.

Every time someone says "this person can't help it", it's almost predictable what I see. They have beer.... smoking sticks... smart phone.... three kids and no husband, and never had a husband. It's always, and I do mean ALWAYS something similar to that every single time.

Some dumb chick spreads her legs for a guy she's not married to, and you think it's my duty to feed her, and her fatherless kids? You are crazy.

I asked this one chick, why doesn't she get help from her family. "oh well I ran away from them years ago, and haven't spoken."

That's my fault, that I must pay for you, because your pride won't let you ask your parents for help?

Now I don't have a problem helping people...... when it's *MY* choice. Not coerced by the government. You screwing up your own life, does not entitle you to my hard worked for earnings. I have no problem with charity. Provided it is actually CHARITY. Charity, doesn't involve men with guns confiscating your money, and that's where I have the problem.

People that are poor, do not "DESERVE" anything. You are not 'owed' by society, because you were an idiot, and screwed up your life. Sorry.

I like your tenacity, reminds me a lot of Mark Levin. I can't argue with what you're saying because you're absolutely right. I don't have a problem with some of my tax dollars being used to feed people who can't help the situations they find themselves in. I personally don't have a problem with us all doing that through our taxes, it benefits us all to be charitable. But the line was crossed years ago and there has been no turning back.

I am a Conservative. What that means is, I don't generally go for radical changes. I wouldn't want us to pull the plug on all Federal social services. I think there is a middle point where we can assist the truly needy but not be totally bat-shit crazy. With our agricultural resources, there is no reason we can't feed every hungry family in America. We can do this for FAR FAR less through State Ag departments with help from USDA. I know we could do it because we used to do it, before Food Stamps.

Bud sadly enough... You are probably correct... It's probably too late for anything other than stark radical change because that is what is going to happen sooner or later. Either we make some hard choices now or those choices will be made for us later. The liberals seem to have decided on a no-holds-barred expansionism that is unprecedented and unsustainable... They are like Thelma and Louise at this point.

SNAP, which used to be called food stamps, is under the control of USDA

 

[NoNukes]

That story fit a longtime conservative suspicion that poor people use food stamps to purchase luxury items. Now, a Republican state lawmaker in Missouri is pushing for legislation that would stop people like Greenslate and severely limit what food stamp recipients can buy. The bill being proposed would ban the purchase with food stamps of "cookies, chips, energy drinks, soft drinks, seafood or steak."
Missouri Republicans are trying to ban food stamp recipients from buying steak and seafood - The Washington Post
Banning food stamps for thugs who spend it on luxury items, or they're trying to destroy welfare system?
I think that the only way to stop these people to spend our tax money on unnecessary items - is to create list of goods they can buy! And what do you think guys?

Cookies, chips, energy drinks, soft drinks are luxury items?

 

[Andylusion]

Some people might remember my history of being more liberal in the past (high school years). I used to not have a strong opinion on food stamps either way.

Then I got a job working for the now defunct Big Bear grocery store chain. You want to talk about having a paradigm shift.

The first time was this chick who walked in, talking on her cell phone. (cell phones were both rare and expensive in 2001-2002) She rang up cases of Mountain Dew, and Jolt, plus bags of Frito. All with food stamps. Then rang up cases of beer. Meanwhile, she's talking on her phone about how her parents bought her a condo (in an expensive area of town) to live in while she was doing to OSU.

Then another time a lady came in, and she bought a ton of stuff, and got most of it on food stamps. And she looked like she crawled out from under a rock. So I thought, well maybe she really needs it. It was a slow day, and I looked out the window, and saw her climb into a late model mint condition Cadillac. At the time, I was in my 1990 200K+ Mile Chevy Lumina, and I'm working 40 hours for my food.

So... yeah my views on food assistance dramatically hardened.

My view? No food assistance at all. Zero. You want food? You can leave mommy&daddies condo, and waddle your butt to your luxury car, and drive it to the food pantry. There's your free food.

I am not quite so cynical. A lot of people are on food stamps because they can't help the situation they are in. It's not a matter of being lazy or unmotivated, it's just the circumstances of life. I am a truly blessed person who doesn't have to worry about much financially but there was a time in my life where things were much different. I can recall making "ketchup soup" for dinner... (from condiment ketchup packs) If lucky, I had crackers too! It's not fun to be so poor you can't buy basic food.

So I can see where we as a society have a responsibility to do what we can to help those who are truly in need of assistance. The problem is, it has gotten way out of control. A single food stamp recipient in Alabama gets around $200 a month. If you have 3-4 kids you can get up to $1200 a month. Now, I am not what you would call "affluent" or anything, I'm a single person who eats what he likes and I don't spend $200 a month on groceries. And then we have the massive amount of absolute fraud going on that isn't being caught. We've got people selling their food stamps for drugs, using them to barter for things they can't buy with food stamps... people double and triple-dipping, claiming the same kids as dependents... all sorts of scams and cons. None of it is being addressed, we just keep throwing more appropriated billions at it every year.

Here's MY idea... End SNAP entirely. No more Food Stamps. Take 50% of what is currently budgeted for SNAP and send it to the State Agriculture Departments. They will be required to use the money to support a food truck delivery to each county twice a month. The truck will deliver surplus food to a distribution center where poor families and individuals can go and obtain basic food items. [This is actually the system we used before food stamps.]

Yeah, I am cynical. Very cynical. And I should be, and so should any rational American. We're one of the few nations in the world, where "poor people" have a higher obesity rate than any other income class of citizens.

Where are these people that can't help it? I've been working among the poor my whole life. I'll likely only pull $20K this year too. I've met dozens of people who used food stamps. Not once... not one time yet, have I met someone that "couldn't help it".

Where are they? When the Republicans pushed through welfare reform in the 90s, people screamed that all these poor people who "couldn't help it" would be starving and die.

Food stamp rolls fell by almost half, and yet..... no one starved... no one died.... How could that be? Where did all the people who couldn't help it go? Apparently they got jobs, and fed themselves. Apparently..... they COULD help it.

Every time someone says "this person can't help it", it's almost predictable what I see. They have beer.... smoking sticks... smart phone.... three kids and no husband, and never had a husband. It's always, and I do mean ALWAYS something similar to that every single time.

Some dumb chick spreads her legs for a guy she's not married to, and you think it's my duty to feed her, and her fatherless kids? You are crazy.

I asked this one chick, why doesn't she get help from her family. "oh well I ran away from them years ago, and haven't spoken."

That's my fault, that I must pay for you, because your pride won't let you ask your parents for help?

Now I don't have a problem helping people...... when it's *MY* choice. Not coerced by the government. You screwing up your own life, does not entitle you to my hard worked for earnings. I have no problem with charity. Provided it is actually CHARITY. Charity, doesn't involve men with guns confiscating your money, and that's where I have the problem.

People that are poor, do not "DESERVE" anything. You are not 'owed' by society, because you were an idiot, and screwed up your life. Sorry.

I like your tenacity, reminds me a lot of Mark Levin. I can't argue with what you're saying because you're absolutely right. I don't have a problem with some of my tax dollars being used to feed people who can't help the situations they find themselves in. I personally don't have a problem with us all doing that through our taxes, it benefits us all to be charitable. But the line was crossed years ago and there has been no turning back.

I am a Conservative. What that means is, I don't generally go for radical changes. I wouldn't want us to pull the plug on all Federal social services. I think there is a middle point where we can assist the truly needy but not be totally bat-shit crazy. With our agricultural resources, there is no reason we can't feed every hungry family in America. We can do this for FAR FAR less through State Ag departments with help from USDA. I know we could do it because we used to do it, before Food Stamps.

Bud sadly enough... You are probably correct... It's probably too late for anything other than stark radical change because that is what is going to happen sooner or later. Either we make some hard choices now or those choices will be made for us later. The liberals seem to have decided on a no-holds-barred expansionism that is unprecedented and unsustainable... They are like Thelma and Louise at this point.

The only time I see tax dollars being given to people justified, is when we're dealing with someone who is actually mentally disabled, and can't work. Or physically disabled and can't work. Even then, I think physically disabled people who work.



So here's a guy with no arms or legs, and he has a degree, and buys and sells real estate.

Nevertheless, I accept that.

But again, it's not charity. Taxes is not charity. When you use the power of government to force people at the end of a gun, to steal money from private people, and give it to others, there is no possible way you can call that "charity".

If I come to your home, and shove a gun in your face, demand your money, and on my way home afterwards, give $50 to a homeless guy on the street.... no one anywhere would conclude "wow, that's was some compassionate charity there!"

Charity is you as an individual, having money that you earned in your pocket, and making the individual choice to give it to someone else.

That's charity.

You can also tell the difference between charity and coercion, based on how recipients act. When you give charity to people who are really in difficulty, they are appreciative of the action, because they know you didn't have to do it.

People on welfare NEVER appreciate welfare or food stamps, and why should they? They are "entitled to it". You didn't do because you cared about them. You did it because you had no choice. Why should they appreciate your sacrifice for their benefits, when you didn't have any other option?

And they don't. If anything, they are angry with society for not giving them more. So again, my position, they should get NOTHING. Zero. Cancel food stamps, welfare, and everything else.

 

[Boss]

Some people might remember my history of being more liberal in the past (high school years). I used to not have a strong opinion on food stamps either way.

Then I got a job working for the now defunct Big Bear grocery store chain. You want to talk about having a paradigm shift.

The first time was this chick who walked in, talking on her cell phone. (cell phones were both rare and expensive in 2001-2002) She rang up cases of Mountain Dew, and Jolt, plus bags of Frito. All with food stamps. Then rang up cases of beer. Meanwhile, she's talking on her phone about how her parents bought her a condo (in an expensive area of town) to live in while she was doing to OSU.

Then another time a lady came in, and she bought a ton of stuff, and got most of it on food stamps. And she looked like she crawled out from under a rock. So I thought, well maybe she really needs it. It was a slow day, and I looked out the window, and saw her climb into a late model mint condition Cadillac. At the time, I was in my 1990 200K+ Mile Chevy Lumina, and I'm working 40 hours for my food.

So... yeah my views on food assistance dramatically hardened.

My view? No food assistance at all. Zero. You want food? You can leave mommy&daddies condo, and waddle your butt to your luxury car, and drive it to the food pantry. There's your free food.

I am not quite so cynical. A lot of people are on food stamps because they can't help the situation they are in. It's not a matter of being lazy or unmotivated, it's just the circumstances of life. I am a truly blessed person who doesn't have to worry about much financially but there was a time in my life where things were much different. I can recall making "ketchup soup" for dinner... (from condiment ketchup packs) If lucky, I had crackers too! It's not fun to be so poor you can't buy basic food.

So I can see where we as a society have a responsibility to do what we can to help those who are truly in need of assistance. The problem is, it has gotten way out of control. A single food stamp recipient in Alabama gets around $200 a month. If you have 3-4 kids you can get up to $1200 a month. Now, I am not what you would call "affluent" or anything, I'm a single person who eats what he likes and I don't spend $200 a month on groceries. And then we have the massive amount of absolute fraud going on that isn't being caught. We've got people selling their food stamps for drugs, using them to barter for things they can't buy with food stamps... people double and triple-dipping, claiming the same kids as dependents... all sorts of scams and cons. None of it is being addressed, we just keep throwing more appropriated billions at it every year.

Here's MY idea... End SNAP entirely. No more Food Stamps. Take 50% of what is currently budgeted for SNAP and send it to the State Agriculture Departments. They will be required to use the money to support a food truck delivery to each county twice a month. The truck will deliver surplus food to a distribution center where poor families and individuals can go and obtain basic food items. [This is actually the system we used before food stamps.]

Yeah, I am cynical. Very cynical. And I should be, and so should any rational American. We're one of the few nations in the world, where "poor people" have a higher obesity rate than any other income class of citizens.

Where are these people that can't help it? I've been working among the poor my whole life. I'll likely only pull $20K this year too. I've met dozens of people who used food stamps. Not once... not one time yet, have I met someone that "couldn't help it".

Where are they? When the Republicans pushed through welfare reform in the 90s, people screamed that all these poor people who "couldn't help it" would be starving and die.

Food stamp rolls fell by almost half, and yet..... no one starved... no one died.... How could that be? Where did all the people who couldn't help it go? Apparently they got jobs, and fed themselves. Apparently..... they COULD help it.

Every time someone says "this person can't help it", it's almost predictable what I see. They have beer.... smoking sticks... smart phone.... three kids and no husband, and never had a husband. It's always, and I do mean ALWAYS something similar to that every single time.

Some dumb chick spreads her legs for a guy she's not married to, and you think it's my duty to feed her, and her fatherless kids? You are crazy.

I asked this one chick, why doesn't she get help from her family. "oh well I ran away from them years ago, and haven't spoken."

That's my fault, that I must pay for you, because your pride won't let you ask your parents for help?

Now I don't have a problem helping people...... when it's *MY* choice. Not coerced by the government. You screwing up your own life, does not entitle you to my hard worked for earnings. I have no problem with charity. Provided it is actually CHARITY. Charity, doesn't involve men with guns confiscating your money, and that's where I have the problem.

People that are poor, do not "DESERVE" anything. You are not 'owed' by society, because you were an idiot, and screwed up your life. Sorry.

I like your tenacity, reminds me a lot of Mark Levin. I can't argue with what you're saying because you're absolutely right. I don't have a problem with some of my tax dollars being used to feed people who can't help the situations they find themselves in. I personally don't have a problem with us all doing that through our taxes, it benefits us all to be charitable. But the line was crossed years ago and there has been no turning back.

I am a Conservative. What that means is, I don't generally go for radical changes. I wouldn't want us to pull the plug on all Federal social services. I think there is a middle point where we can assist the truly needy but not be totally bat-shit crazy. With our agricultural resources, there is no reason we can't feed every hungry family in America. We can do this for FAR FAR less through State Ag departments with help from USDA. I know we could do it because we used to do it, before Food Stamps.

Bud sadly enough... You are probably correct... It's probably too late for anything other than stark radical change because that is what is going to happen sooner or later. Either we make some hard choices now or those choices will be made for us later. The liberals seem to have decided on a no-holds-barred expansionism that is unprecedented and unsustainable... They are like Thelma and Louise at this point.

The only time I see tax dollars being given to people justified, is when we're dealing with someone who is actually mentally disabled, and can't work. Or physically disabled and can't work. Even then, I think physically disabled people who work.



So here's a guy with no arms or legs, and he has a degree, and buys and sells real estate.

Nevertheless, I accept that.

But again, it's not charity. Taxes is not charity. When you use the power of government to force people at the end of a gun, to steal money from private people, and give it to others, there is no possible way you can call that "charity".

If I come to your home, and shove a gun in your face, demand your money, and on my way home afterwards, give $50 to a homeless guy on the street.... no one anywhere would conclude "wow, that's was some compassionate charity there!"

Charity is you as an individual, having money that you earned in your pocket, and making the individual choice to give it to someone else.

That's charity.

You can also tell the difference between charity and coercion, based on how recipients act. When you give charity to people who are really in difficulty, they are appreciative of the action, because they know you didn't have to do it.

People on welfare NEVER appreciate welfare or food stamps, and why should they? They are "entitled to it". You didn't do because you cared about them. You did it because you had no choice. Why should they appreciate your sacrifice for their benefits, when you didn't have any other option?

And they don't. If anything, they are angry with society for not giving them more. So again, my position, they should get NOTHING. Zero. Cancel food stamps, welfare, and everything else.

Again, I can't argue with what you're saying, I agree in principle. But let me ask you this... How much chance do you think any politician would have getting elected with the promise to end all social welfare programs?

While it's alright in principle, doesn't mean it would work in practice. Yes, of course, we would save lots of money by not paying welfare recipients but there would also be an undesirable consequence. Do we really want to see malnourished, pot-bellied starving black children from Mississippi on every nightly news program? Do you want to deal with the liberal left armed with images and stories of people who are literally starving to death due to your elimination of all safety nets?

Now you and I might be able to handle that because we know it's the right principle... but most of America would be ready to lynch us after about a year of no welfare. I respect your idea and I agree in principle, I just don't think it would work in practice.

I would rather see us approach things pragmatically and eliminate the waste, fraud, redundancy, abuse of some programs or totally eliminate programs that aren't working. Replace Food Stamps (SNAP) with the old commodity trucks and feed the hungry with agricultural surplus. This is a much better (and cheaper) idea than giving them a credit card.

 

[Boss]

Some people might remember my history of being more liberal in the past (high school years). I used to not have a strong opinion on food stamps either way.

Then I got a job working for the now defunct Big Bear grocery store chain. You want to talk about having a paradigm shift.

The first time was this chick who walked in, talking on her cell phone. (cell phones were both rare and expensive in 2001-2002) She rang up cases of Mountain Dew, and Jolt, plus bags of Frito. All with food stamps. Then rang up cases of beer. Meanwhile, she's talking on her phone about how her parents bought her a condo (in an expensive area of town) to live in while she was doing to OSU.

Then another time a lady came in, and she bought a ton of stuff, and got most of it on food stamps. And she looked like she crawled out from under a rock. So I thought, well maybe she really needs it. It was a slow day, and I looked out the window, and saw her climb into a late model mint condition Cadillac. At the time, I was in my 1990 200K+ Mile Chevy Lumina, and I'm working 40 hours for my food.

So... yeah my views on food assistance dramatically hardened.

My view? No food assistance at all. Zero. You want food? You can leave mommy&daddies condo, and waddle your butt to your luxury car, and drive it to the food pantry. There's your free food.

I am not quite so cynical. A lot of people are on food stamps because they can't help the situation they are in. It's not a matter of being lazy or unmotivated, it's just the circumstances of life. I am a truly blessed person who doesn't have to worry about much financially but there was a time in my life where things were much different. I can recall making "ketchup soup" for dinner... (from condiment ketchup packs) If lucky, I had crackers too! It's not fun to be so poor you can't buy basic food.

So I can see where we as a society have a responsibility to do what we can to help those who are truly in need of assistance. The problem is, it has gotten way out of control. A single food stamp recipient in Alabama gets around $200 a month. If you have 3-4 kids you can get up to $1200 a month. Now, I am not what you would call "affluent" or anything, I'm a single person who eats what he likes and I don't spend $200 a month on groceries. And then we have the massive amount of absolute fraud going on that isn't being caught. We've got people selling their food stamps for drugs, using them to barter for things they can't buy with food stamps... people double and triple-dipping, claiming the same kids as dependents... all sorts of scams and cons. None of it is being addressed, we just keep throwing more appropriated billions at it every year.

Here's MY idea... End SNAP entirely. No more Food Stamps. Take 50% of what is currently budgeted for SNAP and send it to the State Agriculture Departments. They will be required to use the money to support a food truck delivery to each county twice a month. The truck will deliver surplus food to a distribution center where poor families and individuals can go and obtain basic food items. [This is actually the system we used before food stamps.]

Yeah, I am cynical. Very cynical. And I should be, and so should any rational American. We're one of the few nations in the world, where "poor people" have a higher obesity rate than any other income class of citizens.

Where are these people that can't help it? I've been working among the poor my whole life. I'll likely only pull $20K this year too. I've met dozens of people who used food stamps. Not once... not one time yet, have I met someone that "couldn't help it".

Where are they? When the Republicans pushed through welfare reform in the 90s, people screamed that all these poor people who "couldn't help it" would be starving and die.

Food stamp rolls fell by almost half, and yet..... no one starved... no one died.... How could that be? Where did all the people who couldn't help it go? Apparently they got jobs, and fed themselves. Apparently..... they COULD help it.

Every time someone says "this person can't help it", it's almost predictable what I see. They have beer.... smoking sticks... smart phone.... three kids and no husband, and never had a husband. It's always, and I do mean ALWAYS something similar to that every single time.

Some dumb chick spreads her legs for a guy she's not married to, and you think it's my duty to feed her, and her fatherless kids? You are crazy.

I asked this one chick, why doesn't she get help from her family. "oh well I ran away from them years ago, and haven't spoken."

That's my fault, that I must pay for you, because your pride won't let you ask your parents for help?

Now I don't have a problem helping people...... when it's *MY* choice. Not coerced by the government. You screwing up your own life, does not entitle you to my hard worked for earnings. I have no problem with charity. Provided it is actually CHARITY. Charity, doesn't involve men with guns confiscating your money, and that's where I have the problem.

People that are poor, do not "DESERVE" anything. You are not 'owed' by society, because you were an idiot, and screwed up your life. Sorry.

I like your tenacity, reminds me a lot of Mark Levin. I can't argue with what you're saying because you're absolutely right. I don't have a problem with some of my tax dollars being used to feed people who can't help the situations they find themselves in. I personally don't have a problem with us all doing that through our taxes, it benefits us all to be charitable. But the line was crossed years ago and there has been no turning back.

I am a Conservative. What that means is, I don't generally go for radical changes. I wouldn't want us to pull the plug on all Federal social services. I think there is a middle point where we can assist the truly needy but not be totally bat-shit crazy. With our agricultural resources, there is no reason we can't feed every hungry family in America. We can do this for FAR FAR less through State Ag departments with help from USDA. I know we could do it because we used to do it, before Food Stamps.

Bud sadly enough... You are probably correct... It's probably too late for anything other than stark radical change because that is what is going to happen sooner or later. Either we make some hard choices now or those choices will be made for us later. The liberals seem to have decided on a no-holds-barred expansionism that is unprecedented and unsustainable... They are like Thelma and Louise at this point.

SNAP, which used to be called food stamps, is under the control of USDA

Well yes, I understand that. I haven't said otherwise. It's not about who is in charge of the dysfunctional and abused joke of a program. It's about changing the program to something that works better.

Why do people think it's a brilliant idea to give a bunch of poor folks a credit card and expect them to make sound purchasing decisions? I mean, no disrespect, but most poor people don't exactly have the financial acumen of Donald Trump... that's why they are poor. You don't see many poor people running banks, do you?

Rather than naively expecting people to be responsible, establish a system that doesn't depend on that. Feed the hungry people by giving them vouchers to use at the food center which is stocked with agricultural surplus (which we have an abundance of). They won't be able to buy DiGiorno pizzas and Häagen-Dazs ice cream... they'll have access to fresh farm produce instead.

 

[tresbigdog]

Yep. I watched a similar video about a college professor that got his students to do this as a project. They lived on a diet. Of hot dogs, bologna,bread, ramen noodles,oranges and lettuce.

It can can be done in a pinch.

In a pinch yeah, but imagine that's your diet for months or years. Without Walmart and other discount stores, there would be little recourse for some of these people to start stealing food, escalating into armed robberies. I see no reason why benefits can't be capped like unemployment...two years at $10 a day. That way a person can eat nutritious food that is healthy and produces energy....after two weeks the guy in my link was already feeling sick.

I think that Snap is more than that in this state. I know a few people who were getting 125.00 a month.

But yes... I agree with you. It needs to be at least enough for a person to buy produce and other healthy items.

You DO realize that the "S" in SNAP stands for "supplemental". As in, it's not intended to be your entire food budget; it's intended to provide a supplement to what you already earn.

and if you don't earn anything, then.......???

 

[koshergrl]

Yep. I watched a similar video about a college professor that got his students to do this as a project. They lived on a diet. Of hot dogs, bologna,bread, ramen noodles,oranges and lettuce.

It can can be done in a pinch.

In a pinch yeah, but imagine that's your diet for months or years. Without Walmart and other discount stores, there would be little recourse for some of these people to start stealing food, escalating into armed robberies. I see no reason why benefits can't be capped like unemployment...two years at $10 a day. That way a person can eat nutritious food that is healthy and produces energy....after two weeks the guy in my link was already feeling sick.

I think that Snap is more than that in this state. I know a few people who were getting 125.00 a month.

But yes... I agree with you. It needs to be at least enough for a person to buy produce and other healthy items.

You DO realize that the "S" in SNAP stands for "supplemental". As in, it's not intended to be your entire food budget; it's intended to provide a supplement to what you already earn.

and if you don't earn anything, then.......???

You better start earning something. It's meant to keep people from starving. It's not meant to Keep You in the Manner You Think You Deserve.

 

[BULLDOG]

Some people might remember my history of being more liberal in the past (high school years). I used to not have a strong opinion on food stamps either way.

Then I got a job working for the now defunct Big Bear grocery store chain. You want to talk about having a paradigm shift.

The first time was this chick who walked in, talking on her cell phone. (cell phones were both rare and expensive in 2001-2002) She rang up cases of Mountain Dew, and Jolt, plus bags of Frito. All with food stamps. Then rang up cases of beer. Meanwhile, she's talking on her phone about how her parents bought her a condo (in an expensive area of town) to live in while she was doing to OSU.

Then another time a lady came in, and she bought a ton of stuff, and got most of it on food stamps. And she looked like she crawled out from under a rock. So I thought, well maybe she really needs it. It was a slow day, and I looked out the window, and saw her climb into a late model mint condition Cadillac. At the time, I was in my 1990 200K+ Mile Chevy Lumina, and I'm working 40 hours for my food.

So... yeah my views on food assistance dramatically hardened.

My view? No food assistance at all. Zero. You want food? You can leave mommy&daddies condo, and waddle your butt to your luxury car, and drive it to the food pantry. There's your free food.

I am not quite so cynical. A lot of people are on food stamps because they can't help the situation they are in. It's not a matter of being lazy or unmotivated, it's just the circumstances of life. I am a truly blessed person who doesn't have to worry about much financially but there was a time in my life where things were much different. I can recall making "ketchup soup" for dinner... (from condiment ketchup packs) If lucky, I had crackers too! It's not fun to be so poor you can't buy basic food.

So I can see where we as a society have a responsibility to do what we can to help those who are truly in need of assistance. The problem is, it has gotten way out of control. A single food stamp recipient in Alabama gets around $200 a month. If you have 3-4 kids you can get up to $1200 a month. Now, I am not what you would call "affluent" or anything, I'm a single person who eats what he likes and I don't spend $200 a month on groceries. And then we have the massive amount of absolute fraud going on that isn't being caught. We've got people selling their food stamps for drugs, using them to barter for things they can't buy with food stamps... people double and triple-dipping, claiming the same kids as dependents... all sorts of scams and cons. None of it is being addressed, we just keep throwing more appropriated billions at it every year.

Here's MY idea... End SNAP entirely. No more Food Stamps. Take 50% of what is currently budgeted for SNAP and send it to the State Agriculture Departments. They will be required to use the money to support a food truck delivery to each county twice a month. The truck will deliver surplus food to a distribution center where poor families and individuals can go and obtain basic food items. [This is actually the system we used before food stamps.]

Yeah, I am cynical. Very cynical. And I should be, and so should any rational American. We're one of the few nations in the world, where "poor people" have a higher obesity rate than any other income class of citizens.

Where are these people that can't help it? I've been working among the poor my whole life. I'll likely only pull $20K this year too. I've met dozens of people who used food stamps. Not once... not one time yet, have I met someone that "couldn't help it".

Where are they? When the Republicans pushed through welfare reform in the 90s, people screamed that all these poor people who "couldn't help it" would be starving and die.

Food stamp rolls fell by almost half, and yet..... no one starved... no one died.... How could that be? Where did all the people who couldn't help it go? Apparently they got jobs, and fed themselves. Apparently..... they COULD help it.

Every time someone says "this person can't help it", it's almost predictable what I see. They have beer.... smoking sticks... smart phone.... three kids and no husband, and never had a husband. It's always, and I do mean ALWAYS something similar to that every single time.

Some dumb chick spreads her legs for a guy she's not married to, and you think it's my duty to feed her, and her fatherless kids? You are crazy.

I asked this one chick, why doesn't she get help from her family. "oh well I ran away from them years ago, and haven't spoken."

That's my fault, that I must pay for you, because your pride won't let you ask your parents for help?

Now I don't have a problem helping people...... when it's *MY* choice. Not coerced by the government. You screwing up your own life, does not entitle you to my hard worked for earnings. I have no problem with charity. Provided it is actually CHARITY. Charity, doesn't involve men with guns confiscating your money, and that's where I have the problem.

People that are poor, do not "DESERVE" anything. You are not 'owed' by society, because you were an idiot, and screwed up your life. Sorry.

I like your tenacity, reminds me a lot of Mark Levin. I can't argue with what you're saying because you're absolutely right. I don't have a problem with some of my tax dollars being used to feed people who can't help the situations they find themselves in. I personally don't have a problem with us all doing that through our taxes, it benefits us all to be charitable. But the line was crossed years ago and there has been no turning back.

I am a Conservative. What that means is, I don't generally go for radical changes. I wouldn't want us to pull the plug on all Federal social services. I think there is a middle point where we can assist the truly needy but not be totally bat-shit crazy. With our agricultural resources, there is no reason we can't feed every hungry family in America. We can do this for FAR FAR less through State Ag departments with help from USDA. I know we could do it because we used to do it, before Food Stamps.

Bud sadly enough... You are probably correct... It's probably too late for anything other than stark radical change because that is what is going to happen sooner or later. Either we make some hard choices now or those choices will be made for us later. The liberals seem to have decided on a no-holds-barred expansionism that is unprecedented and unsustainable... They are like Thelma and Louise at this point.

SNAP, which used to be called food stamps, is under the control of USDA

Well yes, I understand that. I haven't said otherwise. It's not about who is in charge of the dysfunctional and abused joke of a program. It's about changing the program to something that works better.

Why do people think it's a brilliant idea to give a bunch of poor folks a credit card and expect them to make sound purchasing decisions? I mean, no disrespect, but most poor people don't exactly have the financial acumen of Donald Trump... that's why they are poor. You don't see many poor people running banks, do you?

Rather than naively expecting people to be responsible, establish a system that doesn't depend on that. Feed the hungry people by giving them vouchers to use at the food center which is stocked with agricultural surplus (which we have an abundance of). They won't be able to buy DiGiorno pizzas and Häagen-Dazs ice cream... they'll have access to fresh farm produce instead.

Got it. Poor people are only poor because they are dumb. Thanks for putting the right wing philosophy is such a concise form.

 

[Andylusion]

Some people might remember my history of being more liberal in the past (high school years). I used to not have a strong opinion on food stamps either way.

Then I got a job working for the now defunct Big Bear grocery store chain. You want to talk about having a paradigm shift.

The first time was this chick who walked in, talking on her cell phone. (cell phones were both rare and expensive in 2001-2002) She rang up cases of Mountain Dew, and Jolt, plus bags of Frito. All with food stamps. Then rang up cases of beer. Meanwhile, she's talking on her phone about how her parents bought her a condo (in an expensive area of town) to live in while she was doing to OSU.

Then another time a lady came in, and she bought a ton of stuff, and got most of it on food stamps. And she looked like she crawled out from under a rock. So I thought, well maybe she really needs it. It was a slow day, and I looked out the window, and saw her climb into a late model mint condition Cadillac. At the time, I was in my 1990 200K+ Mile Chevy Lumina, and I'm working 40 hours for my food.

So... yeah my views on food assistance dramatically hardened.

My view? No food assistance at all. Zero. You want food? You can leave mommy&daddies condo, and waddle your butt to your luxury car, and drive it to the food pantry. There's your free food.

I am not quite so cynical. A lot of people are on food stamps because they can't help the situation they are in. It's not a matter of being lazy or unmotivated, it's just the circumstances of life. I am a truly blessed person who doesn't have to worry about much financially but there was a time in my life where things were much different. I can recall making "ketchup soup" for dinner... (from condiment ketchup packs) If lucky, I had crackers too! It's not fun to be so poor you can't buy basic food.

So I can see where we as a society have a responsibility to do what we can to help those who are truly in need of assistance. The problem is, it has gotten way out of control. A single food stamp recipient in Alabama gets around $200 a month. If you have 3-4 kids you can get up to $1200 a month. Now, I am not what you would call "affluent" or anything, I'm a single person who eats what he likes and I don't spend $200 a month on groceries. And then we have the massive amount of absolute fraud going on that isn't being caught. We've got people selling their food stamps for drugs, using them to barter for things they can't buy with food stamps... people double and triple-dipping, claiming the same kids as dependents... all sorts of scams and cons. None of it is being addressed, we just keep throwing more appropriated billions at it every year.

Here's MY idea... End SNAP entirely. No more Food Stamps. Take 50% of what is currently budgeted for SNAP and send it to the State Agriculture Departments. They will be required to use the money to support a food truck delivery to each county twice a month. The truck will deliver surplus food to a distribution center where poor families and individuals can go and obtain basic food items. [This is actually the system we used before food stamps.]

Yeah, I am cynical. Very cynical. And I should be, and so should any rational American. We're one of the few nations in the world, where "poor people" have a higher obesity rate than any other income class of citizens.

Where are these people that can't help it? I've been working among the poor my whole life. I'll likely only pull $20K this year too. I've met dozens of people who used food stamps. Not once... not one time yet, have I met someone that "couldn't help it".

Where are they? When the Republicans pushed through welfare reform in the 90s, people screamed that all these poor people who "couldn't help it" would be starving and die.

Food stamp rolls fell by almost half, and yet..... no one starved... no one died.... How could that be? Where did all the people who couldn't help it go? Apparently they got jobs, and fed themselves. Apparently..... they COULD help it.

Every time someone says "this person can't help it", it's almost predictable what I see. They have beer.... smoking sticks... smart phone.... three kids and no husband, and never had a husband. It's always, and I do mean ALWAYS something similar to that every single time.

Some dumb chick spreads her legs for a guy she's not married to, and you think it's my duty to feed her, and her fatherless kids? You are crazy.

I asked this one chick, why doesn't she get help from her family. "oh well I ran away from them years ago, and haven't spoken."

That's my fault, that I must pay for you, because your pride won't let you ask your parents for help?

Now I don't have a problem helping people...... when it's *MY* choice. Not coerced by the government. You screwing up your own life, does not entitle you to my hard worked for earnings. I have no problem with charity. Provided it is actually CHARITY. Charity, doesn't involve men with guns confiscating your money, and that's where I have the problem.

People that are poor, do not "DESERVE" anything. You are not 'owed' by society, because you were an idiot, and screwed up your life. Sorry.

I like your tenacity, reminds me a lot of Mark Levin. I can't argue with what you're saying because you're absolutely right. I don't have a problem with some of my tax dollars being used to feed people who can't help the situations they find themselves in. I personally don't have a problem with us all doing that through our taxes, it benefits us all to be charitable. But the line was crossed years ago and there has been no turning back.

I am a Conservative. What that means is, I don't generally go for radical changes. I wouldn't want us to pull the plug on all Federal social services. I think there is a middle point where we can assist the truly needy but not be totally bat-shit crazy. With our agricultural resources, there is no reason we can't feed every hungry family in America. We can do this for FAR FAR less through State Ag departments with help from USDA. I know we could do it because we used to do it, before Food Stamps.

Bud sadly enough... You are probably correct... It's probably too late for anything other than stark radical change because that is what is going to happen sooner or later. Either we make some hard choices now or those choices will be made for us later. The liberals seem to have decided on a no-holds-barred expansionism that is unprecedented and unsustainable... They are like Thelma and Louise at this point.

The only time I see tax dollars being given to people justified, is when we're dealing with someone who is actually mentally disabled, and can't work. Or physically disabled and can't work. Even then, I think physically disabled people who work.



So here's a guy with no arms or legs, and he has a degree, and buys and sells real estate.

Nevertheless, I accept that.

But again, it's not charity. Taxes is not charity. When you use the power of government to force people at the end of a gun, to steal money from private people, and give it to others, there is no possible way you can call that "charity".

If I come to your home, and shove a gun in your face, demand your money, and on my way home afterwards, give $50 to a homeless guy on the street.... no one anywhere would conclude "wow, that's was some compassionate charity there!"

Charity is you as an individual, having money that you earned in your pocket, and making the individual choice to give it to someone else.

That's charity.

You can also tell the difference between charity and coercion, based on how recipients act. When you give charity to people who are really in difficulty, they are appreciative of the action, because they know you didn't have to do it.

People on welfare NEVER appreciate welfare or food stamps, and why should they? They are "entitled to it". You didn't do because you cared about them. You did it because you had no choice. Why should they appreciate your sacrifice for their benefits, when you didn't have any other option?

And they don't. If anything, they are angry with society for not giving them more. So again, my position, they should get NOTHING. Zero. Cancel food stamps, welfare, and everything else.

Again, I can't argue with what you're saying, I agree in principle. But let me ask you this... How much chance do you think any politician would have getting elected with the promise to end all social welfare programs?

While it's alright in principle, doesn't mean it would work in practice. Yes, of course, we would save lots of money by not paying welfare recipients but there would also be an undesirable consequence. Do we really want to see malnourished, pot-bellied starving black children from Mississippi on every nightly news program? Do you want to deal with the liberal left armed with images and stories of people who are literally starving to death due to your elimination of all safety nets?

Now you and I might be able to handle that because we know it's the right principle... but most of America would be ready to lynch us after about a year of no welfare. I respect your idea and I agree in principle, I just don't think it would work in practice.

I would rather see us approach things pragmatically and eliminate the waste, fraud, redundancy, abuse of some programs or totally eliminate programs that aren't working. Replace Food Stamps (SNAP) with the old commodity trucks and feed the hungry with agricultural surplus. This is a much better (and cheaper) idea than giving them a credit card.

Well my goal has never been to find a politician, or convince any politicians, to do what is best.

Why? Because they are politicians. Politicians are rarely, if ever, interested in doing what they actually think is best for the country. And when a politician does stand up for what he thinks is best, over what is politically advantageous..... the public always HATES them for it.

John McCain at a rally in Detroit, suggested that maybe those high paying Union jobs were not coming back, and that people should plan to find other employment.

They HATED McCain for saying that.

Bush really believed that Iraq was necessary. Whether it was or not, Bush really believed it, and stood for what he believed. People HATE Bush for doing that.

Trump today has said something things that he really believes. People are attacking him for it.

The American public is bonkers on this. We claim to hate it when politicians lie... claim to hate politicians that say anything at all to get elected.... claim we want a politician that stands up for what he believes is right. Yet the moment anyone even gets close to acting the way we claim we want, we viciously attack them for it.

And worse, it's only a week later, someone will be complaining bitterly "it's only a choice of the lesser of two evils. Why are there never any good people running in elections?" Bonkers. A whole nation of bonkers. This is why we were never supposed to be a democracy.

So, to answer your question... of course not. If a politician were to stand up and say it's wrong to force hard working people who earn their wages, to pay higher taxes to fund programs that give money to fat lazy people so they can sit at home and do nothing and yet eat.... Yeah, he doesn't stand a chance.

That's why I'm not writing this in a letter to some politician somewhere. I"m writing this to the American public. We need to change the attitudes of Americans.... When that changes, the politicians will follow.

Ironically.... I just had an enlightening conversation today with a German immigrant. She married an evil white male American, and moved to the US. Just today, someone whom I didn't know, started asking her about the welfare system in Germany. Funny how the liberals always talk about how extensive the European welfare system is... apparently it's not quite....

She said the crazy aspect of America is that we pay people to not work. Again, this is just what she told this other guy (I just happen to be in ear shot), she said that in Germany, they have a great welfare system, but..... you have to work. You can't get food assistance, unless you work a full time job.

If you are working, but just not making tons of cash, then you can qualify for assistance. But if you don't have a job at all... you don't get jack.

Shockingly, not very many people remain unemployed long.

As for the all to common claim that people will be starving.... I don't buy it. I think you are just making up fabricated tales, to justify welfare and food stamps. "malnourished, pot-bellied starving black children"... Bull. Farts in the wind. Poor people have a HIGHER obesity rate than the general population.

If anything, forcing them to work for a living, would get them in shape.

It would be years for some of these people to get even 'thin', let alone starving. Maybe she can cut the cigarettes, and buy some rice with the money? Crazy thought.

Again, food stamp rolls in the 90s, drastically fell. Millions.... literally millions of "poor black children" kicked off the welfare rolls.

Do you remember all those "malnourished, pot-bellied starving black children" on the nightly news during the 90s? Me neither.

It's fiction. Hunger is a major motivating factor. When I was broke, I worked 2 jobs. At one point, 3 jobs. One in the morning, one at night, and one on the weekends.

If I can do it, they can do it. It's a choice. They don't want to, and they don't have to, because we're paying them to be lazy.

They can do it, if we deny them the ability to not work. And honestly, as far as I'm concerned, if you don't work, you shouldn't eat.

 

[Andylusion]

I am not quite so cynical. A lot of people are on food stamps because they can't help the situation they are in. It's not a matter of being lazy or unmotivated, it's just the circumstances of life. I am a truly blessed person who doesn't have to worry about much financially but there was a time in my life where things were much different. I can recall making "ketchup soup" for dinner... (from condiment ketchup packs) If lucky, I had crackers too! It's not fun to be so poor you can't buy basic food.

So I can see where we as a society have a responsibility to do what we can to help those who are truly in need of assistance. The problem is, it has gotten way out of control. A single food stamp recipient in Alabama gets around $200 a month. If you have 3-4 kids you can get up to $1200 a month. Now, I am not what you would call "affluent" or anything, I'm a single person who eats what he likes and I don't spend $200 a month on groceries. And then we have the massive amount of absolute fraud going on that isn't being caught. We've got people selling their food stamps for drugs, using them to barter for things they can't buy with food stamps... people double and triple-dipping, claiming the same kids as dependents... all sorts of scams and cons. None of it is being addressed, we just keep throwing more appropriated billions at it every year.

Here's MY idea... End SNAP entirely. No more Food Stamps. Take 50% of what is currently budgeted for SNAP and send it to the State Agriculture Departments. They will be required to use the money to support a food truck delivery to each county twice a month. The truck will deliver surplus food to a distribution center where poor families and individuals can go and obtain basic food items. [This is actually the system we used before food stamps.]

Yeah, I am cynical. Very cynical. And I should be, and so should any rational American. We're one of the few nations in the world, where "poor people" have a higher obesity rate than any other income class of citizens.

Where are these people that can't help it? I've been working among the poor my whole life. I'll likely only pull $20K this year too. I've met dozens of people who used food stamps. Not once... not one time yet, have I met someone that "couldn't help it".

Where are they? When the Republicans pushed through welfare reform in the 90s, people screamed that all these poor people who "couldn't help it" would be starving and die.

Food stamp rolls fell by almost half, and yet..... no one starved... no one died.... How could that be? Where did all the people who couldn't help it go? Apparently they got jobs, and fed themselves. Apparently..... they COULD help it.

Every time someone says "this person can't help it", it's almost predictable what I see. They have beer.... smoking sticks... smart phone.... three kids and no husband, and never had a husband. It's always, and I do mean ALWAYS something similar to that every single time.

Some dumb chick spreads her legs for a guy she's not married to, and you think it's my duty to feed her, and her fatherless kids? You are crazy.

I asked this one chick, why doesn't she get help from her family. "oh well I ran away from them years ago, and haven't spoken."

That's my fault, that I must pay for you, because your pride won't let you ask your parents for help?

Now I don't have a problem helping people...... when it's *MY* choice. Not coerced by the government. You screwing up your own life, does not entitle you to my hard worked for earnings. I have no problem with charity. Provided it is actually CHARITY. Charity, doesn't involve men with guns confiscating your money, and that's where I have the problem.

People that are poor, do not "DESERVE" anything. You are not 'owed' by society, because you were an idiot, and screwed up your life. Sorry.

I like your tenacity, reminds me a lot of Mark Levin. I can't argue with what you're saying because you're absolutely right. I don't have a problem with some of my tax dollars being used to feed people who can't help the situations they find themselves in. I personally don't have a problem with us all doing that through our taxes, it benefits us all to be charitable. But the line was crossed years ago and there has been no turning back.

I am a Conservative. What that means is, I don't generally go for radical changes. I wouldn't want us to pull the plug on all Federal social services. I think there is a middle point where we can assist the truly needy but not be totally bat-shit crazy. With our agricultural resources, there is no reason we can't feed every hungry family in America. We can do this for FAR FAR less through State Ag departments with help from USDA. I know we could do it because we used to do it, before Food Stamps.

Bud sadly enough... You are probably correct... It's probably too late for anything other than stark radical change because that is what is going to happen sooner or later. Either we make some hard choices now or those choices will be made for us later. The liberals seem to have decided on a no-holds-barred expansionism that is unprecedented and unsustainable... They are like Thelma and Louise at this point.

SNAP, which used to be called food stamps, is under the control of USDA

Well yes, I understand that. I haven't said otherwise. It's not about who is in charge of the dysfunctional and abused joke of a program. It's about changing the program to something that works better.

Why do people think it's a brilliant idea to give a bunch of poor folks a credit card and expect them to make sound purchasing decisions? I mean, no disrespect, but most poor people don't exactly have the financial acumen of Donald Trump... that's why they are poor. You don't see many poor people running banks, do you?

Rather than naively expecting people to be responsible, establish a system that doesn't depend on that. Feed the hungry people by giving them vouchers to use at the food center which is stocked with agricultural surplus (which we have an abundance of). They won't be able to buy DiGiorno pizzas and Häagen-Dazs ice cream... they'll have access to fresh farm produce instead.

Got it. Poor people are only poor because they are dumb. Thanks for putting the right wing philosophy is such a concise form.

Yes. Why can't you people figure this out? And not "dumb" as in Forest Gump dumb... but dumb as in making bad choices. Yes, that is exactly true. 100%, you got it. That's how life works. You reap what you sow. You blow all your money... you end up poor. Cause and effect.

Why the left thinks it's rational to pretend otherwise, is beyond me. Maybe they actually are dumb, as in the Forest Gump dumb.

 

[Boss]

I am not quite so cynical. A lot of people are on food stamps because they can't help the situation they are in. It's not a matter of being lazy or unmotivated, it's just the circumstances of life. I am a truly blessed person who doesn't have to worry about much financially but there was a time in my life where things were much different. I can recall making "ketchup soup" for dinner... (from condiment ketchup packs) If lucky, I had crackers too! It's not fun to be so poor you can't buy basic food.

So I can see where we as a society have a responsibility to do what we can to help those who are truly in need of assistance. The problem is, it has gotten way out of control. A single food stamp recipient in Alabama gets around $200 a month. If you have 3-4 kids you can get up to $1200 a month. Now, I am not what you would call "affluent" or anything, I'm a single person who eats what he likes and I don't spend $200 a month on groceries. And then we have the massive amount of absolute fraud going on that isn't being caught. We've got people selling their food stamps for drugs, using them to barter for things they can't buy with food stamps... people double and triple-dipping, claiming the same kids as dependents... all sorts of scams and cons. None of it is being addressed, we just keep throwing more appropriated billions at it every year.

Here's MY idea... End SNAP entirely. No more Food Stamps. Take 50% of what is currently budgeted for SNAP and send it to the State Agriculture Departments. They will be required to use the money to support a food truck delivery to each county twice a month. The truck will deliver surplus food to a distribution center where poor families and individuals can go and obtain basic food items. [This is actually the system we used before food stamps.]

Yeah, I am cynical. Very cynical. And I should be, and so should any rational American. We're one of the few nations in the world, where "poor people" have a higher obesity rate than any other income class of citizens.

Where are these people that can't help it? I've been working among the poor my whole life. I'll likely only pull $20K this year too. I've met dozens of people who used food stamps. Not once... not one time yet, have I met someone that "couldn't help it".

Where are they? When the Republicans pushed through welfare reform in the 90s, people screamed that all these poor people who "couldn't help it" would be starving and die.

Food stamp rolls fell by almost half, and yet..... no one starved... no one died.... How could that be? Where did all the people who couldn't help it go? Apparently they got jobs, and fed themselves. Apparently..... they COULD help it.

Every time someone says "this person can't help it", it's almost predictable what I see. They have beer.... smoking sticks... smart phone.... three kids and no husband, and never had a husband. It's always, and I do mean ALWAYS something similar to that every single time.

Some dumb chick spreads her legs for a guy she's not married to, and you think it's my duty to feed her, and her fatherless kids? You are crazy.

I asked this one chick, why doesn't she get help from her family. "oh well I ran away from them years ago, and haven't spoken."

That's my fault, that I must pay for you, because your pride won't let you ask your parents for help?

Now I don't have a problem helping people...... when it's *MY* choice. Not coerced by the government. You screwing up your own life, does not entitle you to my hard worked for earnings. I have no problem with charity. Provided it is actually CHARITY. Charity, doesn't involve men with guns confiscating your money, and that's where I have the problem.

People that are poor, do not "DESERVE" anything. You are not 'owed' by society, because you were an idiot, and screwed up your life. Sorry.

I like your tenacity, reminds me a lot of Mark Levin. I can't argue with what you're saying because you're absolutely right. I don't have a problem with some of my tax dollars being used to feed people who can't help the situations they find themselves in. I personally don't have a problem with us all doing that through our taxes, it benefits us all to be charitable. But the line was crossed years ago and there has been no turning back.

I am a Conservative. What that means is, I don't generally go for radical changes. I wouldn't want us to pull the plug on all Federal social services. I think there is a middle point where we can assist the truly needy but not be totally bat-shit crazy. With our agricultural resources, there is no reason we can't feed every hungry family in America. We can do this for FAR FAR less through State Ag departments with help from USDA. I know we could do it because we used to do it, before Food Stamps.

Bud sadly enough... You are probably correct... It's probably too late for anything other than stark radical change because that is what is going to happen sooner or later. Either we make some hard choices now or those choices will be made for us later. The liberals seem to have decided on a no-holds-barred expansionism that is unprecedented and unsustainable... They are like Thelma and Louise at this point.

SNAP, which used to be called food stamps, is under the control of USDA

Well yes, I understand that. I haven't said otherwise. It's not about who is in charge of the dysfunctional and abused joke of a program. It's about changing the program to something that works better.

Why do people think it's a brilliant idea to give a bunch of poor folks a credit card and expect them to make sound purchasing decisions? I mean, no disrespect, but most poor people don't exactly have the financial acumen of Donald Trump... that's why they are poor. You don't see many poor people running banks, do you?

Rather than naively expecting people to be responsible, establish a system that doesn't depend on that. Feed the hungry people by giving them vouchers to use at the food center which is stocked with agricultural surplus (which we have an abundance of). They won't be able to buy DiGiorno pizzas and Häagen-Dazs ice cream... they'll have access to fresh farm produce instead.

Got it. Poor people are only poor because they are dumb. Thanks for putting the right wing philosophy is such a concise form.

I didn't say they were dumb, they just aren't generally very good at money matters. People who handle money and finances well, generally aren't poor. Now that doesn't mean the poor person is dumb, they may have many talents and smarts in other things. People are all different.

My problem is giving these people a credit card and turning them loose in a grocery store expecting them to behave responsibly.

 

[Andylusion]

Yeah, I am cynical. Very cynical. And I should be, and so should any rational American. We're one of the few nations in the world, where "poor people" have a higher obesity rate than any other income class of citizens.

Where are these people that can't help it? I've been working among the poor my whole life. I'll likely only pull $20K this year too. I've met dozens of people who used food stamps. Not once... not one time yet, have I met someone that "couldn't help it".

Where are they? When the Republicans pushed through welfare reform in the 90s, people screamed that all these poor people who "couldn't help it" would be starving and die.

Food stamp rolls fell by almost half, and yet..... no one starved... no one died.... How could that be? Where did all the people who couldn't help it go? Apparently they got jobs, and fed themselves. Apparently..... they COULD help it.

Every time someone says "this person can't help it", it's almost predictable what I see. They have beer.... smoking sticks... smart phone.... three kids and no husband, and never had a husband. It's always, and I do mean ALWAYS something similar to that every single time.

Some dumb chick spreads her legs for a guy she's not married to, and you think it's my duty to feed her, and her fatherless kids? You are crazy.

I asked this one chick, why doesn't she get help from her family. "oh well I ran away from them years ago, and haven't spoken."

That's my fault, that I must pay for you, because your pride won't let you ask your parents for help?

Now I don't have a problem helping people...... when it's *MY* choice. Not coerced by the government. You screwing up your own life, does not entitle you to my hard worked for earnings. I have no problem with charity. Provided it is actually CHARITY. Charity, doesn't involve men with guns confiscating your money, and that's where I have the problem.

People that are poor, do not "DESERVE" anything. You are not 'owed' by society, because you were an idiot, and screwed up your life. Sorry.

I like your tenacity, reminds me a lot of Mark Levin. I can't argue with what you're saying because you're absolutely right. I don't have a problem with some of my tax dollars being used to feed people who can't help the situations they find themselves in. I personally don't have a problem with us all doing that through our taxes, it benefits us all to be charitable. But the line was crossed years ago and there has been no turning back.

I am a Conservative. What that means is, I don't generally go for radical changes. I wouldn't want us to pull the plug on all Federal social services. I think there is a middle point where we can assist the truly needy but not be totally bat-shit crazy. With our agricultural resources, there is no reason we can't feed every hungry family in America. We can do this for FAR FAR less through State Ag departments with help from USDA. I know we could do it because we used to do it, before Food Stamps.

Bud sadly enough... You are probably correct... It's probably too late for anything other than stark radical change because that is what is going to happen sooner or later. Either we make some hard choices now or those choices will be made for us later. The liberals seem to have decided on a no-holds-barred expansionism that is unprecedented and unsustainable... They are like Thelma and Louise at this point.

SNAP, which used to be called food stamps, is under the control of USDA

Well yes, I understand that. I haven't said otherwise. It's not about who is in charge of the dysfunctional and abused joke of a program. It's about changing the program to something that works better.

Why do people think it's a brilliant idea to give a bunch of poor folks a credit card and expect them to make sound purchasing decisions? I mean, no disrespect, but most poor people don't exactly have the financial acumen of Donald Trump... that's why they are poor. You don't see many poor people running banks, do you?

Rather than naively expecting people to be responsible, establish a system that doesn't depend on that. Feed the hungry people by giving them vouchers to use at the food center which is stocked with agricultural surplus (which we have an abundance of). They won't be able to buy DiGiorno pizzas and Häagen-Dazs ice cream... they'll have access to fresh farm produce instead.

Got it. Poor people are only poor because they are dumb. Thanks for putting the right wing philosophy is such a concise form.

I didn't say they were dumb, they just aren't generally very good at money matters. People who handle money and finances well, generally aren't poor. Now that doesn't mean the poor person is dumb, they may have many talents and smarts in other things. People are all different.

My problem is giving these people a credit card and turning them loose in a grocery store expecting them to behave responsibly.

Exactly. Michael Jackson was bankrupt before he died. The whole reason he started the "This is It" tour which led to his death, is explicitly because he was broke.

You can be very talented, and very smart in other areas, and yet still be broke.

 

[Boss]

Exactly. Michael Jackson was bankrupt before he died. The whole reason he started the "This is It" tour which led to his death, is explicitly because he was broke.

You can be very talented, and very smart in other areas, and yet still be broke.

Let me present two real examples in my own personal life.

#1- I have a close personal friend who is worth about $30 million according to Forbes. For the past 20 years, he has paid virtually no income tax because he doesn't earn an income. By any measure, he is "wealthy" and he lives a fairly opulent lifestyle. He doesn't give a rat's ass if you raise the top marginal tax rates, he is never going to earn the kind of income it would effect. He does receive dividends on his stock holdings and investments, but many of these are tax-free. But even the total amount he realizes in annual dividends wouldn't put him anywhere near the top tax bracket.

#2- A woman who is a close friend recently had her father pass away. Her and her siblings were left an inheritance of around $200k each. Her husband has a decent job as a pipe fitter making about $20 an hour, so they are living a fairly upward-middle-class lifestyle. They have three kids in high school, so things aren't cheap for them and they aren't "wealthy" by any measure. The $200k windfall along with his salary, puts them in the top marginal tax bracket for this year.

So is a high top marginal tax rate having any effect on the wealthy person? Nope. Is it helping the upward-middle-class family? Nope. It is merely an ignorant and simple-minded viewpoint the left has regarding taxation. They ASSUME that a high income earned means the person is rich and it simply doesn't. The overwhelming majority of opulently rich people do not earn taxable incomes, and IF they do, they don't fall within the top marginal rates. The overwhelming majority of top income earners are actually small businesses who (by law) file their taxes as individuals. These are NOT the opulent wealthy by any means.

 

[KissMy]

I like your tenacity, reminds me a lot of Mark Levin. I can't argue with what you're saying because you're absolutely right. I don't have a problem with some of my tax dollars being used to feed people who can't help the situations they find themselves in. I personally don't have a problem with us all doing that through our taxes, it benefits us all to be charitable. But the line was crossed years ago and there has been no turning back.

I am a Conservative. What that means is, I don't generally go for radical changes. I wouldn't want us to pull the plug on all Federal social services. I think there is a middle point where we can assist the truly needy but not be totally bat-shit crazy. With our agricultural resources, there is no reason we can't feed every hungry family in America. We can do this for FAR FAR less through State Ag departments with help from USDA. I know we could do it because we used to do it, before Food Stamps.

Bud sadly enough... You are probably correct... It's probably too late for anything other than stark radical change because that is what is going to happen sooner or later. Either we make some hard choices now or those choices will be made for us later. The liberals seem to have decided on a no-holds-barred expansionism that is unprecedented and unsustainable... They are like Thelma and Louise at this point.

SNAP, which used to be called food stamps, is under the control of USDA

Well yes, I understand that. I haven't said otherwise. It's not about who is in charge of the dysfunctional and abused joke of a program. It's about changing the program to something that works better.

Why do people think it's a brilliant idea to give a bunch of poor folks a credit card and expect them to make sound purchasing decisions? I mean, no disrespect, but most poor people don't exactly have the financial acumen of Donald Trump... that's why they are poor. You don't see many poor people running banks, do you?

Rather than naively expecting people to be responsible, establish a system that doesn't depend on that. Feed the hungry people by giving them vouchers to use at the food center which is stocked with agricultural surplus (which we have an abundance of). They won't be able to buy DiGiorno pizzas and Häagen-Dazs ice cream... they'll have access to fresh farm produce instead.

Got it. Poor people are only poor because they are dumb. Thanks for putting the right wing philosophy is such a concise form.

I didn't say they were dumb, they just aren't generally very good at money matters. People who handle money and finances well, generally aren't poor. Now that doesn't mean the poor person is dumb, they may have many talents and smarts in other things. People are all different.

My problem is giving these people a credit card and turning them loose in a grocery store expecting them to behave responsibly.

Exactly. Michael Jackson was bankrupt before he died. The whole reason he started the "This is It" tour which led to his death, is explicitly because he was broke.

You can be very talented, and very smart in other areas, and yet still be broke.

So you two believe in big government nanny state taking care of workers, because they can't be trusted to make their own decisions if companies paid them & they spent their own money how they wanted?

 

[Andylusion]

SNAP, which used to be called food stamps, is under the control of USDA

Well yes, I understand that. I haven't said otherwise. It's not about who is in charge of the dysfunctional and abused joke of a program. It's about changing the program to something that works better.

Why do people think it's a brilliant idea to give a bunch of poor folks a credit card and expect them to make sound purchasing decisions? I mean, no disrespect, but most poor people don't exactly have the financial acumen of Donald Trump... that's why they are poor. You don't see many poor people running banks, do you?

Rather than naively expecting people to be responsible, establish a system that doesn't depend on that. Feed the hungry people by giving them vouchers to use at the food center which is stocked with agricultural surplus (which we have an abundance of). They won't be able to buy DiGiorno pizzas and Häagen-Dazs ice cream... they'll have access to fresh farm produce instead.

Got it. Poor people are only poor because they are dumb. Thanks for putting the right wing philosophy is such a concise form.

I didn't say they were dumb, they just aren't generally very good at money matters. People who handle money and finances well, generally aren't poor. Now that doesn't mean the poor person is dumb, they may have many talents and smarts in other things. People are all different.

My problem is giving these people a credit card and turning them loose in a grocery store expecting them to behave responsibly.

Exactly. Michael Jackson was bankrupt before he died. The whole reason he started the "This is It" tour which led to his death, is explicitly because he was broke.

You can be very talented, and very smart in other areas, and yet still be broke.

So you two believe in big government nanny state taking care of workers, because they can't be trusted to make their own decisions if companies paid them & they spent their own money how they wanted?

We pointed out that people who use money wisely end up wealthy, and those that waste money poorly, end up impoverished.

From that you concluded that we support big government taking care of workers because they can't be trusted to make their own decisions?

No. My entire point was exactly the opposite. People should be allowed to make their own decisions, and that the wise should not be punished to subsidize the foolish.

We should not punish those who made intelligent choices with money and became wealthy, to fund those who make foolish choices and become poor.

 

[Boss]

We should not punish those who made intelligent choices with money and became wealthy, to fund those who make foolish choices and become poor.

It should also be pointed out to the little commies that, unlike a socialist system, our free market and free enterprise system doesn't confine people to the same economic class their entire life. In this country, people routinely go from poor to middle class, from middle class to wealthy, from wealthy back to middle class and from middle class to poor. This often changes numerous times during the course of one's life.

They speak of "the middle class" like they are some kind of permanent economic class that never changes and that's just not accurate. You are free in this country to obtain as much wealth as you please and millions upon millions of penniless immigrants have come here and done precisely that.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Some people might remember my history of being more liberal in the past (high school years). I used to not have a strong opinion on food stamps either way.

Then I got a job working for the now defunct Big Bear grocery store chain. You want to talk about having a paradigm shift.

The first time was this chick who walked in, talking on her cell phone. (cell phones were both rare and expensive in 2001-2002) She rang up cases of Mountain Dew, and Jolt, plus bags of Frito. All with food stamps. Then rang up cases of beer. Meanwhile, she's talking on her phone about how her parents bought her a condo (in an expensive area of town) to live in while she was doing to OSU.

Then another time a lady came in, and she bought a ton of stuff, and got most of it on food stamps. And she looked like she crawled out from under a rock. So I thought, well maybe she really needs it. It was a slow day, and I looked out the window, and saw her climb into a late model mint condition Cadillac. At the time, I was in my 1990 200K+ Mile Chevy Lumina, and I'm working 40 hours for my food.

So... yeah my views on food assistance dramatically hardened.

My view? No food assistance at all. Zero. You want food? You can leave mommy&daddies condo, and waddle your butt to your luxury car, and drive it to the food pantry. There's your free food.

I am not quite so cynical. A lot of people are on food stamps because they can't help the situation they are in. It's not a matter of being lazy or unmotivated, it's just the circumstances of life. I am a truly blessed person who doesn't have to worry about much financially but there was a time in my life where things were much different. I can recall making "ketchup soup" for dinner... (from condiment ketchup packs) If lucky, I had crackers too! It's not fun to be so poor you can't buy basic food.

So I can see where we as a society have a responsibility to do what we can to help those who are truly in need of assistance. The problem is, it has gotten way out of control. A single food stamp recipient in Alabama gets around $200 a month. If you have 3-4 kids you can get up to $1200 a month. Now, I am not what you would call "affluent" or anything, I'm a single person who eats what he likes and I don't spend $200 a month on groceries. And then we have the massive amount of absolute fraud going on that isn't being caught. We've got people selling their food stamps for drugs, using them to barter for things they can't buy with food stamps... people double and triple-dipping, claiming the same kids as dependents... all sorts of scams and cons. None of it is being addressed, we just keep throwing more appropriated billions at it every year.

Here's MY idea... End SNAP entirely. No more Food Stamps. Take 50% of what is currently budgeted for SNAP and send it to the State Agriculture Departments. They will be required to use the money to support a food truck delivery to each county twice a month. The truck will deliver surplus food to a distribution center where poor families and individuals can go and obtain basic food items. [This is actually the system we used before food stamps.]

Yeah, I am cynical. Very cynical. And I should be, and so should any rational American. We're one of the few nations in the world, where "poor people" have a higher obesity rate than any other income class of citizens.

Where are these people that can't help it? I've been working among the poor my whole life. I'll likely only pull $20K this year too. I've met dozens of people who used food stamps. Not once... not one time yet, have I met someone that "couldn't help it".

Where are they? When the Republicans pushed through welfare reform in the 90s, people screamed that all these poor people who "couldn't help it" would be starving and die.

Food stamp rolls fell by almost half, and yet..... no one starved... no one died.... How could that be? Where did all the people who couldn't help it go? Apparently they got jobs, and fed themselves. Apparently..... they COULD help it.

Every time someone says "this person can't help it", it's almost predictable what I see. They have beer.... smoking sticks... smart phone.... three kids and no husband, and never had a husband. It's always, and I do mean ALWAYS something similar to that every single time.

Some dumb chick spreads her legs for a guy she's not married to, and you think it's my duty to feed her, and her fatherless kids? You are crazy.

I asked this one chick, why doesn't she get help from her family. "oh well I ran away from them years ago, and haven't spoken."

That's my fault, that I must pay for you, because your pride won't let you ask your parents for help?

Now I don't have a problem helping people...... when it's *MY* choice. Not coerced by the government. You screwing up your own life, does not entitle you to my hard worked for earnings. I have no problem with charity. Provided it is actually CHARITY. Charity, doesn't involve men with guns confiscating your money, and that's where I have the problem.

People that are poor, do not "DESERVE" anything. You are not 'owed' by society, because you were an idiot, and screwed up your life. Sorry.

I like your tenacity, reminds me a lot of Mark Levin. I can't argue with what you're saying because you're absolutely right. I don't have a problem with some of my tax dollars being used to feed people who can't help the situations they find themselves in. I personally don't have a problem with us all doing that through our taxes, it benefits us all to be charitable. But the line was crossed years ago and there has been no turning back.

I am a Conservative. What that means is, I don't generally go for radical changes. I wouldn't want us to pull the plug on all Federal social services. I think there is a middle point where we can assist the truly needy but not be totally bat-shit crazy. With our agricultural resources, there is no reason we can't feed every hungry family in America. We can do this for FAR FAR less through State Ag departments with help from USDA. I know we could do it because we used to do it, before Food Stamps.

Bud sadly enough... You are probably correct... It's probably too late for anything other than stark radical change because that is what is going to happen sooner or later. Either we make some hard choices now or those choices will be made for us later. The liberals seem to have decided on a no-holds-barred expansionism that is unprecedented and unsustainable... They are like Thelma and Louise at this point.

SNAP, which used to be called food stamps, is under the control of USDA

Well yes, I understand that. I haven't said otherwise. It's not about who is in charge of the dysfunctional and abused joke of a program. It's about changing the program to something that works better.

Why do people think it's a brilliant idea to give a bunch of poor folks a credit card and expect them to make sound purchasing decisions? I mean, no disrespect, but most poor people don't exactly have the financial acumen of Donald Trump... that's why they are poor. You don't see many poor people running banks, do you?

Rather than naively expecting people to be responsible, establish a system that doesn't depend on that. Feed the hungry people by giving them vouchers to use at the food center which is stocked with agricultural surplus (which we have an abundance of). They won't be able to buy DiGiorno pizzas and Häagen-Dazs ice cream... they'll have access to fresh farm produce instead.

Much more expensive in overhead, to start with.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Yep. I watched a similar video about a college professor that got his students to do this as a project. They lived on a diet. Of hot dogs, bologna,bread, ramen noodles,oranges and lettuce.

It can can be done in a pinch.

In a pinch yeah, but imagine that's your diet for months or years. Without Walmart and other discount stores, there would be little recourse for some of these people to start stealing food, escalating into armed robberies. I see no reason why benefits can't be capped like unemployment...two years at $10 a day. That way a person can eat nutritious food that is healthy and produces energy....after two weeks the guy in my link was already feeling sick.

I think that Snap is more than that in this state. I know a few people who were getting 125.00 a month.

But yes... I agree with you. It needs to be at least enough for a person to buy produce and other healthy items.

You DO realize that the "S" in SNAP stands for "supplemental". As in, it's not intended to be your entire food budget; it's intended to provide a supplement to what you already earn.

and if you don't earn anything, then.......???

Why on Earth would you have no income whatsoever? If you can't work, you have disability, or Social Security, or TANF, or something. Hell, even homeless transients bring in money from panhandling and collecting recyclables. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any significant number of adults in this country who have no access whatsoever to some sort of cash.

 

[Moonglow]

Yeah, I am cynical. Very cynical. And I should be, and so should any rational American. We're one of the few nations in the world, where "poor people" have a higher obesity rate than any other income class of citizens.

Where are these people that can't help it? I've been working among the poor my whole life. I'll likely only pull $20K this year too. I've met dozens of people who used food stamps. Not once... not one time yet, have I met someone that "couldn't help it".

Where are they? When the Republicans pushed through welfare reform in the 90s, people screamed that all these poor people who "couldn't help it" would be starving and die.

Food stamp rolls fell by almost half, and yet..... no one starved... no one died.... How could that be? Where did all the people who couldn't help it go? Apparently they got jobs, and fed themselves. Apparently..... they COULD help it.

Every time someone says "this person can't help it", it's almost predictable what I see. They have beer.... smoking sticks... smart phone.... three kids and no husband, and never had a husband. It's always, and I do mean ALWAYS something similar to that every single time.

Some dumb chick spreads her legs for a guy she's not married to, and you think it's my duty to feed her, and her fatherless kids? You are crazy.

I asked this one chick, why doesn't she get help from her family. "oh well I ran away from them years ago, and haven't spoken."

That's my fault, that I must pay for you, because your pride won't let you ask your parents for help?

Now I don't have a problem helping people...... when it's *MY* choice. Not coerced by the government. You screwing up your own life, does not entitle you to my hard worked for earnings. I have no problem with charity. Provided it is actually CHARITY. Charity, doesn't involve men with guns confiscating your money, and that's where I have the problem.

People that are poor, do not "DESERVE" anything. You are not 'owed' by society, because you were an idiot, and screwed up your life. Sorry.

I like your tenacity, reminds me a lot of Mark Levin. I can't argue with what you're saying because you're absolutely right. I don't have a problem with some of my tax dollars being used to feed people who can't help the situations they find themselves in. I personally don't have a problem with us all doing that through our taxes, it benefits us all to be charitable. But the line was crossed years ago and there has been no turning back.

I am a Conservative. What that means is, I don't generally go for radical changes. I wouldn't want us to pull the plug on all Federal social services. I think there is a middle point where we can assist the truly needy but not be totally bat-shit crazy. With our agricultural resources, there is no reason we can't feed every hungry family in America. We can do this for FAR FAR less through State Ag departments with help from USDA. I know we could do it because we used to do it, before Food Stamps.

Bud sadly enough... You are probably correct... It's probably too late for anything other than stark radical change because that is what is going to happen sooner or later. Either we make some hard choices now or those choices will be made for us later. The liberals seem to have decided on a no-holds-barred expansionism that is unprecedented and unsustainable... They are like Thelma and Louise at this point.

SNAP, which used to be called food stamps, is under the control of USDA

Well yes, I understand that. I haven't said otherwise. It's not about who is in charge of the dysfunctional and abused joke of a program. It's about changing the program to something that works better.

Why do people think it's a brilliant idea to give a bunch of poor folks a credit card and expect them to make sound purchasing decisions? I mean, no disrespect, but most poor people don't exactly have the financial acumen of Donald Trump... that's why they are poor. You don't see many poor people running banks, do you?

Rather than naively expecting people to be responsible, establish a system that doesn't depend on that. Feed the hungry people by giving them vouchers to use at the food center which is stocked with agricultural surplus (which we have an abundance of). They won't be able to buy DiGiorno pizzas and Häagen-Dazs ice cream... they'll have access to fresh farm produce instead.

Got it. Poor people are only poor because they are dumb. Thanks for putting the right wing philosophy is such a concise form.

I didn't say they were dumb, they just aren't generally very good at money matters. People who handle money and finances well, generally aren't poor. Now that doesn't mean the poor person is dumb, they may have many talents and smarts in other things. People are all different.

My problem is giving these people a credit card and turning them loose in a grocery store expecting them to behave responsibly.

It's really none of your business.....

 

[Cecilie1200]

I am not quite so cynical. A lot of people are on food stamps because they can't help the situation they are in. It's not a matter of being lazy or unmotivated, it's just the circumstances of life. I am a truly blessed person who doesn't have to worry about much financially but there was a time in my life where things were much different. I can recall making "ketchup soup" for dinner... (from condiment ketchup packs) If lucky, I had crackers too! It's not fun to be so poor you can't buy basic food.

So I can see where we as a society have a responsibility to do what we can to help those who are truly in need of assistance. The problem is, it has gotten way out of control. A single food stamp recipient in Alabama gets around $200 a month. If you have 3-4 kids you can get up to $1200 a month. Now, I am not what you would call "affluent" or anything, I'm a single person who eats what he likes and I don't spend $200 a month on groceries. And then we have the massive amount of absolute fraud going on that isn't being caught. We've got people selling their food stamps for drugs, using them to barter for things they can't buy with food stamps... people double and triple-dipping, claiming the same kids as dependents... all sorts of scams and cons. None of it is being addressed, we just keep throwing more appropriated billions at it every year.

Here's MY idea... End SNAP entirely. No more Food Stamps. Take 50% of what is currently budgeted for SNAP and send it to the State Agriculture Departments. They will be required to use the money to support a food truck delivery to each county twice a month. The truck will deliver surplus food to a distribution center where poor families and individuals can go and obtain basic food items. [This is actually the system we used before food stamps.]

Yeah, I am cynical. Very cynical. And I should be, and so should any rational American. We're one of the few nations in the world, where "poor people" have a higher obesity rate than any other income class of citizens.

Where are these people that can't help it? I've been working among the poor my whole life. I'll likely only pull $20K this year too. I've met dozens of people who used food stamps. Not once... not one time yet, have I met someone that "couldn't help it".

Where are they? When the Republicans pushed through welfare reform in the 90s, people screamed that all these poor people who "couldn't help it" would be starving and die.

Food stamp rolls fell by almost half, and yet..... no one starved... no one died.... How could that be? Where did all the people who couldn't help it go? Apparently they got jobs, and fed themselves. Apparently..... they COULD help it.

Every time someone says "this person can't help it", it's almost predictable what I see. They have beer.... smoking sticks... smart phone.... three kids and no husband, and never had a husband. It's always, and I do mean ALWAYS something similar to that every single time.

Some dumb chick spreads her legs for a guy she's not married to, and you think it's my duty to feed her, and her fatherless kids? You are crazy.

I asked this one chick, why doesn't she get help from her family. "oh well I ran away from them years ago, and haven't spoken."

That's my fault, that I must pay for you, because your pride won't let you ask your parents for help?

Now I don't have a problem helping people...... when it's *MY* choice. Not coerced by the government. You screwing up your own life, does not entitle you to my hard worked for earnings. I have no problem with charity. Provided it is actually CHARITY. Charity, doesn't involve men with guns confiscating your money, and that's where I have the problem.

People that are poor, do not "DESERVE" anything. You are not 'owed' by society, because you were an idiot, and screwed up your life. Sorry.

I like your tenacity, reminds me a lot of Mark Levin. I can't argue with what you're saying because you're absolutely right. I don't have a problem with some of my tax dollars being used to feed people who can't help the situations they find themselves in. I personally don't have a problem with us all doing that through our taxes, it benefits us all to be charitable. But the line was crossed years ago and there has been no turning back.

I am a Conservative. What that means is, I don't generally go for radical changes. I wouldn't want us to pull the plug on all Federal social services. I think there is a middle point where we can assist the truly needy but not be totally bat-shit crazy. With our agricultural resources, there is no reason we can't feed every hungry family in America. We can do this for FAR FAR less through State Ag departments with help from USDA. I know we could do it because we used to do it, before Food Stamps.

Bud sadly enough... You are probably correct... It's probably too late for anything other than stark radical change because that is what is going to happen sooner or later. Either we make some hard choices now or those choices will be made for us later. The liberals seem to have decided on a no-holds-barred expansionism that is unprecedented and unsustainable... They are like Thelma and Louise at this point.

The only time I see tax dollars being given to people justified, is when we're dealing with someone who is actually mentally disabled, and can't work. Or physically disabled and can't work. Even then, I think physically disabled people who work.



So here's a guy with no arms or legs, and he has a degree, and buys and sells real estate.

Nevertheless, I accept that.

But again, it's not charity. Taxes is not charity. When you use the power of government to force people at the end of a gun, to steal money from private people, and give it to others, there is no possible way you can call that "charity".

If I come to your home, and shove a gun in your face, demand your money, and on my way home afterwards, give $50 to a homeless guy on the street.... no one anywhere would conclude "wow, that's was some compassionate charity there!"

Charity is you as an individual, having money that you earned in your pocket, and making the individual choice to give it to someone else.

That's charity.

You can also tell the difference between charity and coercion, based on how recipients act. When you give charity to people who are really in difficulty, they are appreciative of the action, because they know you didn't have to do it.

People on welfare NEVER appreciate welfare or food stamps, and why should they? They are "entitled to it". You didn't do because you cared about them. You did it because you had no choice. Why should they appreciate your sacrifice for their benefits, when you didn't have any other option?

And they don't. If anything, they are angry with society for not giving them more. So again, my position, they should get NOTHING. Zero. Cancel food stamps, welfare, and everything else.

Again, I can't argue with what you're saying, I agree in principle. But let me ask you this... How much chance do you think any politician would have getting elected with the promise to end all social welfare programs?

While it's alright in principle, doesn't mean it would work in practice. Yes, of course, we would save lots of money by not paying welfare recipients but there would also be an undesirable consequence. Do we really want to see malnourished, pot-bellied starving black children from Mississippi on every nightly news program? Do you want to deal with the liberal left armed with images and stories of people who are literally starving to death due to your elimination of all safety nets?

Now you and I might be able to handle that because we know it's the right principle... but most of America would be ready to lynch us after about a year of no welfare. I respect your idea and I agree in principle, I just don't think it would work in practice.

I would rather see us approach things pragmatically and eliminate the waste, fraud, redundancy, abuse of some programs or totally eliminate programs that aren't working. Replace Food Stamps (SNAP) with the old commodity trucks and feed the hungry with agricultural surplus. This is a much better (and cheaper) idea than giving them a credit card.

Well my goal has never been to find a politician, or convince any politicians, to do what is best.

Why? Because they are politicians. Politicians are rarely, if ever, interested in doing what they actually think is best for the country. And when a politician does stand up for what he thinks is best, over what is politically advantageous..... the public always HATES them for it.

John McCain at a rally in Detroit, suggested that maybe those high paying Union jobs were not coming back, and that people should plan to find other employment.

They HATED McCain for saying that.

Bush really believed that Iraq was necessary. Whether it was or not, Bush really believed it, and stood for what he believed. People HATE Bush for doing that.

Trump today has said something things that he really believes. People are attacking him for it.

The American public is bonkers on this. We claim to hate it when politicians lie... claim to hate politicians that say anything at all to get elected.... claim we want a politician that stands up for what he believes is right. Yet the moment anyone even gets close to acting the way we claim we want, we viciously attack them for it.

And worse, it's only a week later, someone will be complaining bitterly "it's only a choice of the lesser of two evils. Why are there never any good people running in elections?" Bonkers. A whole nation of bonkers. This is why we were never supposed to be a democracy.

So, to answer your question... of course not. If a politician were to stand up and say it's wrong to force hard working people who earn their wages, to pay higher taxes to fund programs that give money to fat lazy people so they can sit at home and do nothing and yet eat.... Yeah, he doesn't stand a chance.

That's why I'm not writing this in a letter to some politician somewhere. I"m writing this to the American public. We need to change the attitudes of Americans.... When that changes, the politicians will follow.

Ironically.... I just had an enlightening conversation today with a German immigrant. She married an evil white male American, and moved to the US. Just today, someone whom I didn't know, started asking her about the welfare system in Germany. Funny how the liberals always talk about how extensive the European welfare system is... apparently it's not quite....

She said the crazy aspect of America is that we pay people to not work. Again, this is just what she told this other guy (I just happen to be in ear shot), she said that in Germany, they have a great welfare system, but..... you have to work. You can't get food assistance, unless you work a full time job.

If you are working, but just not making tons of cash, then you can qualify for assistance. But if you don't have a job at all... you don't get jack.

Shockingly, not very many people remain unemployed long.

As for the all to common claim that people will be starving.... I don't buy it. I think you are just making up fabricated tales, to justify welfare and food stamps. "malnourished, pot-bellied starving black children"... Bull. Farts in the wind. Poor people have a HIGHER obesity rate than the general population.

If anything, forcing them to work for a living, would get them in shape.

It would be years for some of these people to get even 'thin', let alone starving. Maybe she can cut the cigarettes, and buy some rice with the money? Crazy thought.

Again, food stamp rolls in the 90s, drastically fell. Millions.... literally millions of "poor black children" kicked off the welfare rolls.

Do you remember all those "malnourished, pot-bellied starving black children" on the nightly news during the 90s? Me neither.

It's fiction. Hunger is a major motivating factor. When I was broke, I worked 2 jobs. At one point, 3 jobs. One in the morning, one at night, and one on the weekends.

If I can do it, they can do it. It's a choice. They don't want to, and they don't have to, because we're paying them to be lazy.

They can do it, if we deny them the ability to not work. And honestly, as far as I'm concerned, if you don't work, you shouldn't eat.

And in all seriousness, if they're so useless that they will let their children starve rather than put themselves to any effort to feed them, we'd be better off building orphanages than paying those sorts of people to play "parent" just because they ovulated or ejaculated or whatever.

Personally, while I know there are a lot of crappy parents in the world, I certainly don't believe that a large percentage of poor people are THAT bad.