Modern conservatives sympathizing with The Confederacy... Is this a thing now?

[-S-]

Yes, Confederates were Conservatives, therefore today's Conservatives agree with the South.

No they weren't they were democrats.

The Democratic Party used to have a strong social conservative faction. Hence the south's consistent voting record with them until the 60s/70s.
The Republican Party also has a history of having a progressive faction (TRoosevelt and Nelson Rockefeller are two progressive faction leaders from different times).
That is, up until recent history. Now Republicans HAVE to lean right and Democrats HAVE to lean left.
Politics used to be more nuanced.

 

[bripat9643]

Seems like a lot of people are saying that once a state is in th Union, then it has to stay in, no matter what the people of that state want. That seems quite tyrannical to me.

What we are saying is that states need to live up to their word.....

It's certainly an interesting viewpoint that people must "keep their word" by remaining in a contract when the other party to that contract isn't keeping his. It's WRONG, but it's interesting.

So true. Note how the members of the Lincoln cult believe that nothing is too extreme or cruel to inflict on Southern states because they seceded. Killing 850,000 people is a light sentence, in their view. But the archangel Lincoln can repeal habeas corpus, trash the First Amendment by arresting newspaper editors and shutting down over 300 news paper, throw citizens in concentrations camps without a trial, arrest the entire state legislature of Maryland and attempt to arrest a justice of the Supreme Court, and that doesn't even cause the faintest ripple in their composure.

 

[thanatos144]

Yes, Confederates were Conservatives, therefore today's Conservatives agree with the South.

No they weren't they were democrats.

The Democratic Party used to have a strong social conservative faction. Hence the south's consistent voting record with them until the 60s/70s.
The Republican Party also has a history of having a progressive faction (TRoosevelt and Nelson Rockefeller are two progressive faction leaders from different times).
That is, up until recent history. Now Republicans HAVE to lean right and Democrats HAVE to lean left.
Politics used to be more nuanced.

The democrat party hasn't changed since their confederate days....They still enslave and are filled with hate.

 

[bripat9643]

You apparently dont care what the constitution says. There is no right to secession in the constitution.

The Constitution doesn't mention secession, so how can anyone claim it isn't permitted? The theory that everything not expressly permitted is denied is the logic of morons.

You can say it isn't permitted because it is called rebellion and that is treason and yes before you spout out more stupidity our founding fathers were traitors to the crown. .

It's called secession, and it isn't treason. Lincoln is the one who committed treason by making war on states of the union.

The Major difference being the founders won their rebellion. They won it because they were worthy. Not just strength won the revolutionary war but ideals of liberty and freedom because it garnered the Frenches help which without them we wouldn't have a country today. The confederates didn't have that morel ground to stand on. You cant scream you are for freedom and then rebel to expand slave economics. The founders one great weakness was allowing the slavery to exist after we were founded. Lincoln fixed that with the cray baby help of the south. They started a war and gave him the opportunity to emancipate them......

So winning makes it right? It's hard to believe that an adult is stupid and unscrupulous to utter such nonsense. The Founders were no more "worth" than the leaders of the Confederacy. Their ideals were virtually identical. The French helped because England was Frances enemy. That doesn't provide the slightest sliver of "moral ground."

Bottom line: You're an ignominious weasel.

So by that logic, if the South HAD won, Thanatos would be in here today telling us how legal and virtuous secession is, based simply on the fact that it worked.

The south wouldn't have won we all would have lost..... But as we see they lost.

We would have all been better off if the South had won. The most important reason is that the idea that the almighty state is something to worship would have been utterly defeated. Big government would have had its testicles removed, and that's always a good thing.

 

[bripat9643]

The prejudice , assumptions and childish name calling of some posters is so glaring that even they should see it. For example, nowhere has this poster extolled the virtues of Lincoln nor stated that secession was clearly illegal (or legal). Statements have been made and questions posed trying to put the discussion in perspective. Most responding posters have interpreted these in that way.
I will state here that the crime of slavery is so heinous that little can be imagined to exceed it. Whatever it took to end it, and whoever suffered what as a result of having practiced it, is like the rapist; whatever happens to him he brought upon himself.
Just as in the world there are many 'evils' and 'causes' to go to war such as religion, oil, simple power, these would never convince me to 'take up arms'. But if there were a serious battle to free my sisters worldwide, once and for all from the awful oppression they have suffered for centuries, millennia, you might have a soldier here.

In other words, you don't care what the law or the Constitution says.

Got it.

Tell us why anyone should waste his time discussing the issue with you?

You apparently dont care what the constitution says. There is no right to secession in the constitution.

I wasn't aware the Constitution outlined and and granted rights. Last time I checked, it's all about granting limited powers to government, and setting boundaries on them.

Okay then where is the phrase in the constitution that the US government has to let a state secede?

So anything that isn't expressly permitted is prohibited? You have a boot-licking totalitarian view of government.

 

[bripat9643]

I've seen at least three conservatives on this site talk about how Lincoln and the Union were wrong, and that the Confederacy should have been allowed to secede the way they did, and were on the right side of history..

Is this a popular stance among conservatives of today? Are they really pro-Confederacy when they look back on the Civil War? Or are there just a couple crazies here and there?

(This thread may also help the 'Gay Marriage' thread from being further derailed with Civil War arguments. Figured it was worth a shot haha)

I believe the left should have "harassed the Right" until the right found a cracker to "harass a Judge" for his Cause instead of waging war on the North, in that alternative.

When did the South ever wage war on the North?

This was pointed out to you several times in this thread you fucking inbred idiot.

Those examples were all bogus, as I pointed out.

 

[Clementine]

They've sympathized with the confederacy for a long time. Go down south and count how many confederate flags you see.

I don't believe most that fly Confederate flags do so because they are racist. Dukes of Hazzard made the flags look cool and some actually fly them because of pride that has nothing to do with slavery. Not that I'd expect you to understand or admit the nuance involved with various flags and traditions that aren't evil.

Of course, the leftwing nuts are constantly out looking for racism everywhere and think they see it everywhere. Gotta gin up some anger at the right for next year's election, eh, and you're already on it.

 

[bripat9643]

Seems like a lot of people are saying that once a state is in th Union, then it has to stay in, no matter what the people of that state want. That seems quite tyrannical to me.

What we are saying is that states need to live up to their word.....

It's certainly an interesting viewpoint that people must "keep their word" by remaining in a contract when the other party to that contract isn't keeping his. It's WRONG, but it's interesting.

He sounds just like the abusive husband who said he had to kill his wife because she said she was leaving.

 

[bripat9643]

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Since succession is not addressed by the constitution, then it should be up to individual states to decide.

And, yes I know that the USSC has ruled differently since the civil war. But that's proof that sometimes the Supreme Court makes stuff up that is not in the constitution.

Also, if a state decides to succeed, why should they care what the Supreme Court thinks anymore. That state is declaring itself free from the U.S. and no longer bound by its laws or court rulings.

The Term NOT delegated to the US dummy that means you would still have to be part of the US for the constitutional protections you are demanding....You can not have you cake and eat it to

So while you are part of the U.S. you have the right to secede. Once you have seceded, you no longer have that right.

See how that works?

 

[bripat9643]

And when he lost and was proved wrong.

So it's all about might, not about right and wrong.

How is keeping your word wrong?????

The constitution does not say that states cannot succeed. No word is being broken.

You should probably look back in this thread to catch up. What had largely been debated is whether or not secession was legal. If it were all that clear, don't you think the discussion would have ended a very long time ago?

No because there will always be neoconfederates like Bri who have romantic delusions on what really happened.

They are all documented facts. Your understanding is a delusion.

 

[-S-]

Yes, Confederates were Conservatives, therefore today's Conservatives agree with the South.

No they weren't they were democrats.

The Democratic Party used to have a strong social conservative faction. Hence the south's consistent voting record with them until the 60s/70s.
The Republican Party also has a history of having a progressive faction (TRoosevelt and Nelson Rockefeller are two progressive faction leaders from different times).
That is, up until recent history. Now Republicans HAVE to lean right and Democrats HAVE to lean left.
Politics used to be more nuanced.

The democrat party hasn't changed since their confederate days....They still enslave and are filled with hate.

Believe what you want to believe, I guess.
I guess in your mind it's easier to just pretend it's a coincidence that the south completely changed parties, despite still overwhelmingly believing in the same small government ideology they did in the 1800s haha. Most people will see the connection. Just because you don't doesn't make facts disappear.

 

[TheOldSchool]

They've sympathized with the confederacy for a long time. Go down south and count how many confederate flags you see.

I don't believe most that fly Confederate flags do so because they are racist. Dukes of Hazzard made the flags look cool and some actually fly them because of pride that has nothing to do with slavery. Not that I'd expect you to understand or admit the nuance involved with various flags and traditions that aren't evil.

Of course, the leftwing nuts are constantly out looking for racism everywhere and think they see it everywhere. Gotta gin up some anger at the right for next year's election, eh, and you're already on it.

You don't fly the confederate flag by "accident." Flying the confederate flag is fun for 15 year olds, and a statement against black people for EVERYONE else. And the people who fly it know that full well.

 

[-S-]

They've sympathized with the confederacy for a long time. Go down south and count how many confederate flags you see.

I don't believe most that fly Confederate flags do so because they are racist. Dukes of Hazzard made the flags look cool and some actually fly them because of pride that has nothing to do with slavery. Not that I'd expect you to understand or admit the nuance involved with various flags and traditions that aren't evil.

Of course, the leftwing nuts are constantly out looking for racism everywhere and think they see it everywhere. Gotta gin up some anger at the right for next year's election, eh, and you're already on it.

I could wave a flag covered in dog shit and say I'm doing it in the name of scented candles.

It's still gonna smell like shit, regardless.

 

[TheOldSchool]

They've sympathized with the confederacy for a long time. Go down south and count how many confederate flags you see.

I don't believe most that fly Confederate flags do so because they are racist. Dukes of Hazzard made the flags look cool and some actually fly them because of pride that has nothing to do with slavery. Not that I'd expect you to understand or admit the nuance involved with various flags and traditions that aren't evil.

Of course, the leftwing nuts are constantly out looking for racism everywhere and think they see it everywhere. Gotta gin up some anger at the right for next year's election, eh, and you're already on it.

I could wave a flag covered in dog shit and say I'm doing it in the name of scented candles.

It's still gonna smell like shit, regardless.

Oooohh man I wish that had been my response!

 

[thanatos144]

Seems like a lot of people are saying that once a state is in th Union, then it has to stay in, no matter what the people of that state want. That seems quite tyrannical to me.

What we are saying is that states need to live up to their word.....

It's certainly an interesting viewpoint that people must "keep their word" by remaining in a contract when the other party to that contract isn't keeping his. It's WRONG, but it's interesting.

He sounds just like the abusive husband who said he had to kill his wife because she said she was leaving.

No I sound like a murderer? Hey eat me trailer trash.

 

[bripat9643]

They've sympathized with the confederacy for a long time. Go down south and count how many confederate flags you see.

I don't believe most that fly Confederate flags do so because they are racist. Dukes of Hazzard made the flags look cool and some actually fly them because of pride that has nothing to do with slavery. Not that I'd expect you to understand or admit the nuance involved with various flags and traditions that aren't evil.

Of course, the leftwing nuts are constantly out looking for racism everywhere and think they see it everywhere. Gotta gin up some anger at the right for next year's election, eh, and you're already on it.

You don't fly the confederate flag by "accident." Flying the confederate flag is fun for 15 year olds, and a statement against black people for EVERYONE else. And the people who fly it know that full well.

Flying the Confederate flag is mostly just a way to tell liberals to fuck off, Plus it really pisses them off.

 

[bripat9643]

Seems like a lot of people are saying that once a state is in th Union, then it has to stay in, no matter what the people of that state want. That seems quite tyrannical to me.

What we are saying is that states need to live up to their word.....

It's certainly an interesting viewpoint that people must "keep their word" by remaining in a contract when the other party to that contract isn't keeping his. It's WRONG, but it's interesting.

He sounds just like the abusive husband who said he had to kill his wife because she said she was leaving.

No I sound like a murderer? Hey eat me trailer trash.

Yes you do sound like a murderer. You certainly have been gloating about the murder of 850,000 people.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Seems like a lot of people are saying that once a state is in th Union, then it has to stay in, no matter what the people of that state want. That seems quite tyrannical to me.

What we are saying is that states need to live up to their word.....

It's certainly an interesting viewpoint that people must "keep their word" by remaining in a contract when the other party to that contract isn't keeping his. It's WRONG, but it's interesting.

He sounds just like the abusive husband who said he had to kill his wife because she said she was leaving.

No I sound like a murderer? Hey eat me trailer trash.

Defending Lincoln's illegal war certainly demonstrates a casual disregard for human life. In effect, it's saying that it's better to kill people than let them leave. That's exactly what happened. Decency would prefer to avoid war and simply let them leave the union. Preserving the union is fine if it's achieved through diplomatic appeal, specifically the North promising to stop the economic oppression causing states to secede to begin with. But if it's achieved by brute force and the deaths of hundreds of thousands, it becomes unjust.

 

[Skylar]

Seems like a lot of people are saying that once a state is in th Union, then it has to stay in, no matter what the people of that state want. That seems quite tyrannical to me.

What we are saying is that states need to live up to their word.....

It's certainly an interesting viewpoint that people must "keep their word" by remaining in a contract when the other party to that contract isn't keeping his. It's WRONG, but it's interesting.

He sounds just like the abusive husband who said he had to kill his wife because she said she was leaving.

No I sound like a murderer? Hey eat me trailer trash.

Defending Lincoln's illegal war certainly demonstrates a casual disregard for human life.

Neither putting down a rebellion nor defending US territory is 'illegal'. Rendering the entire premise of your argument veritable gibberish.

 

[bripat9643]

What we are saying is that states need to live up to their word.....

It's certainly an interesting viewpoint that people must "keep their word" by remaining in a contract when the other party to that contract isn't keeping his. It's WRONG, but it's interesting.

He sounds just like the abusive husband who said he had to kill his wife because she said she was leaving.

No I sound like a murderer? Hey eat me trailer trash.

Defending Lincoln's illegal war certainly demonstrates a casual disregard for human life.

Neither putting down a rebellion nor defending US territory is 'illegal'. Rendering the entire premise of your argument veritable gibberish.

Secession is not rebellion, moron. It's illegal for the federal government to invade any of the states of the Union. It says so right in the Constitution.