More lefties learn the glory of the 15 dollar minimum wage....unemployment.....

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Not yet, we'll see.

Again their customer base is low income. Increasing min wage increases sales. Unemploying people with machines is untested and decreases sales.

I don't think that is true.

Generally speaking these people who earn these type of wages are there for a reason. No doubt most of them would continue eating at such places , they would just be paying for it with welfare instead of with their own wages.

 

[hadit]

There are no machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, cook and assemble burgers, so your argument is moot..

Actually, we have machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, and cook burgers - do you seriously believe burger assembly is an engineering challenge we can't solve?

How many restaurants serve nothing but hamburgers?

There are no machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, cook and assemble burgers, so your argument is moot..

Actually, we have machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, and cook burgers - do you seriously believe burger assembly is an engineering challenge we can't solve?

Why do we still have cooks?

Fast found restaurants don't just serve hamburgers. A McDonald kitchen prepares fried and broiled chicken sandwiches, fish sandwiches, chicken nuggets, snack wraps, a multitude of special burgers, a variety of egg muffin sandwiches, pancakes, eggs, sausages, biscuits, and constantly changing specials.

Unless your restaurant served just burgers, a burger machine with have a minimal impact on employment because the kitchen staff is still needed to prepare other food.

There is also another problem with automation. It's not flexible. The machine can only perform the tasks that it has been built to perform. So management's menu is limited by the machine; not a good idea since fast food restaurants have built their menu by trying out new menu offerings.
.

When people cost more than machines, and machines can do a better job than people, machines will do the job. It used to be that a man could make a career bolting or welding car parts together on an assembly line. Not any more. It used to be that a woman could make a career out of making clothes by hand. Not any more. It used to be that a computer programmer could make a career out of writing file I/O and screen painting routines. Not any more.

 

[EverCurious]

Untested in the US... The Fast-Food Restaurants That Require Few Human Workers All Tech Considered NPR

"Today, Amsterdam's Febo chain of stores feature only vending-machine service for burgers, fries and more. A few employees are responsible for stocking the items behind the machines but way out of customer view, so you can walk up, drop in your coins and get a hot meal after a long night out without talking to anyone face-to-face.

Japan also has a version of automats, known there as shokkenki. There, you choose the meal you want and purchase a ticket for it, then you hand in your ticket to the cook behind the counter. I guess this eliminates the role for the person who takes your order at the register.

And the serverless restaurant was actually in vogue in the United States at the turn of the 20th century. Smithsonian Magazine looked back:

"Horn & Hardart and its cavernous, waiterless establishments represented a combination of fast-food, vending and cafeteria-style eateries. These restaurants, with their chrome-and-glass coin-operated machines, brought high-tech, inexpensive eating to a low-tech era. Making their debut in Philadelphia in 1902, just up the street from Independence Hall, and reaching Manhattan in 1912, Horn & Hardart Automats became an American icon, celebrated in song and humor. With their uniform recipes and centralized commissary system of supplying their restaurants, the Automats were America's first major fast-food chain."

But by the 1970s, the magazine explains, automats fell victim to consumers' changing tastes and lifestyles. Americans had moved into the suburbs, which killed the late night business at downtown automats. And places like McDonald's had lower food costs.

Now that automation is en vogue again, maybe automats, like so many other trends, will get a chance at a comeback."

About Febo:

Fast food Amsterdam What s up with Amsterdam

"Johan de Borst from Amsterdam started Febo while he was working as an assistant in a bakery. The name Febo is derived from Ferdinand Bol, the name of the street where Johan de Borst wanted to start the first shop. He was set on a hygienic working space and oversaw the kitchen up to a very late age in his life. Even now, his grandchildren are on the board of directors.

Febo doesn’t have a large market share in the fast food sector in Holland, but there are still very successful, also because they spend little in personal and restaurant space.

There are 22 Febo fast food shops in Amsterdam and 60 totalling in The Netherlands."

And what the customers think:

FEBO Amsterdam - Dam Square - Restaurant Reviews Phone Number Photos - TripAdvisor

 

[Brain357]

Not yet, we'll see.

Again their customer base is low income. Increasing min wage increases sales. Unemploying people with machines is untested and decreases sales.

I don't think that is true.

Generally speaking these people who earn these type of wages are there for a reason. No doubt most of them would continue eating at such places , they would just be paying for it with welfare instead of with their own wages.

Welfare will be less than the wages though so they would be eating there less.

 

[hadit]

Not yet, we'll see.

Again their customer base is low income. Increasing min wage increases sales. Unemploying people with machines is untested and decreases sales.

Lower prices increase sales. Higher prices decrease sales. When machines cost less to do a job than people do, prices go down. Low income people do what when prices go up? What do they do when prices go down? For the answer, ask yourself this. Where do low income people shop for clothes, Macy's or Wal-Mart?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

There are no machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, cook and assemble burgers, so your argument is moot..

Actually, we have machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, and cook burgers - do you seriously believe burger assembly is an engineering challenge we can't solve?

How many restaurants serve nothing but hamburgers?

There are no machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, cook and assemble burgers, so your argument is moot..

Actually, we have machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, and cook burgers - do you seriously believe burger assembly is an engineering challenge we can't solve?

Why do we still have cooks?

Fast found restaurants don't just serve hamburgers. A McDonald kitchen prepares fried and broiled chicken sandwiches, fish sandwiches, chicken nuggets, snack wraps, a multitude of special burgers, a variety of egg muffin sandwiches, pancakes, eggs, sausages, biscuits, and constantly changing specials.

Unless your restaurant served just burgers, a burger machine with have a minimal impact on employment because the kitchen staff is still needed to prepare other food.

There is also another problem with automation. It's not flexible. The machine can only perform the tasks that it has been built to perform. So management's menu is limited by the machine; not a good idea since fast food restaurants have built their menu by trying out new menu offerings.
.

When people cost more than machines, and machines can do a better job than people, machines will do the job. It used to be that a man could make a career bolting or welding car parts together on an assembly line. Not any more. It used to be that a woman could make a career out of making clothes by hand. Not any more. It used to be that a computer programmer could make a career out of writing file I/O and screen painting routines. Not any more.

Correct, but slightly different. In that machines weren't introduced to the auto building industry strictly because of cost of human labor. They were also introduced to speed up production AND to build more precise vehicles.

McDonalds, for instance, doesn't really need to be able to build 600 burgers every hour of every day , or do they have to meet such strict tolerances for safety concerns and such.

So, it becomes an economy of scale question. And there is noway McDonalds could justify the upfront costs of a half million dollar machine the way an auto plant, or other assembly line company, could because how much product they sell is not going to increase. They are already selling as many burgers as they can sell.

 

[hadit]

Only 4 when you are there - other times? 16 people out of work.

The discussion was not about what is being used today - obviously we use minimum wage workers, because it's more cost effective. The point was - raise the minimum wage enough and the machine will be built - because it is more cost effective.

Oh, by the way ----- Hamburger-making machine churns out custom burgers at industrial speeds

And in the reality of now nobody is using machines to make food. I guess walmart employees will be replaced by robots. I'll never understand why the right wants people to make so little.

It has nothing to do with 'want[ing] people to make so little' - it's about not wanting to pay more for labor than it's worth.

Today, nobody uses the hamburger-making machine because minimum wage labor is less expensive - raise the wages and see what happens.

And, I can guarantee when Walmart employees cost more than robots, they're gone.

Given nobody is using burger making machines I think a min wage increase is pretty safe. Just like every other one has been safe.

Where do YOU think the tipping point is? $10? $15? $20? $50?

You better be right ....

Yes I know you are trying to scare everyone. I'm certain it can be increased without the sky falling. It always has been.

Only as long as the increase has been small enough to not really matter. Let's put it this way. Have all those increases lowered poverty, or has poverty held pace and even increased since the MW was instituted?

 

[Brain357]

Not yet, we'll see.

Again their customer base is low income. Increasing min wage increases sales. Unemploying people with machines is untested and decreases sales.

Lower prices increase sales. Higher prices decrease sales. When machines cost less to do a job than people do, prices go down. Low income people do what when prices go up? What do they do when prices go down? For the answer, ask yourself this. Where do low income people shop for clothes, Macy's or Wal-Mart?

If prices would go down and it was feasible they would be using machines now. They however don't.

 

[hadit]

There are no machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, cook and assemble burgers, so your argument is moot..

Actually, we have machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, and cook burgers - do you seriously believe burger assembly is an engineering challenge we can't solve?

How many restaurants serve nothing but hamburgers?

There are no machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, cook and assemble burgers, so your argument is moot..

Actually, we have machines that can grind meat, shape burger patties, and cook burgers - do you seriously believe burger assembly is an engineering challenge we can't solve?

Why do we still have cooks?

Fast found restaurants don't just serve hamburgers. A McDonald kitchen prepares fried and broiled chicken sandwiches, fish sandwiches, chicken nuggets, snack wraps, a multitude of special burgers, a variety of egg muffin sandwiches, pancakes, eggs, sausages, biscuits, and constantly changing specials.

Unless your restaurant served just burgers, a burger machine with have a minimal impact on employment because the kitchen staff is still needed to prepare other food.

There is also another problem with automation. It's not flexible. The machine can only perform the tasks that it has been built to perform. So management's menu is limited by the machine; not a good idea since fast food restaurants have built their menu by trying out new menu offerings.
.

When people cost more than machines, and machines can do a better job than people, machines will do the job. It used to be that a man could make a career bolting or welding car parts together on an assembly line. Not any more. It used to be that a woman could make a career out of making clothes by hand. Not any more. It used to be that a computer programmer could make a career out of writing file I/O and screen painting routines. Not any more.

Correct, but slightly different. In that machines weren't introduced to the auto building industry strictly because of cost of human labor. They were also introduced to speed up production AND to build more precise vehicles.

McDonalds, for instance, doesn't really need to be able to build 600 burgers every hour of every day , or do they have to meet such strict tolerances for safety concerns and such.

So, it becomes an economy of scale question. And there is noway McDonalds could justify the upfront costs of a half million dollar machine the way an auto plant, or other assembly line company, could because how much product they sell is not going to increase. They are already selling as many burgers as they can sell.

I think you contradicted yourself. Machines were introduced to speed up production AND build better vehicles CHEAPER THAN HUMANS COULD DO. IOW, we could have thrown millions of workers at the assembly lines to crank out more cars, and more inspectors to ensure higher quality, but at a MUCH higher cost than that of the machines.

As for McDonald's, what makes you think they're selling all the burgers possible right now? If they can increase the quality of the burgers while keeping the price low, they will take market share from other fast food outlets and sell more.

Finally, what makes you think the price of an automated burger machine will always be 1/2 mil? We know how technology prices move. They go down. A single McD's may not be able to spend 1/2 mil for a machine, but it almost certainly can spend 100 grand, or 50.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

And in the reality of now nobody is using machines to make food. I guess walmart employees will be replaced by robots. I'll never understand why the right wants people to make so little.

It has nothing to do with 'want[ing] people to make so little' - it's about not wanting to pay more for labor than it's worth.

Today, nobody uses the hamburger-making machine because minimum wage labor is less expensive - raise the wages and see what happens.

And, I can guarantee when Walmart employees cost more than robots, they're gone.

Given nobody is using burger making machines I think a min wage increase is pretty safe. Just like every other one has been safe.

Where do YOU think the tipping point is? $10? $15? $20? $50?

You better be right ....

Yes I know you are trying to scare everyone. I'm certain it can be increased without the sky falling. It always has been.

Only as long as the increase has been small enough to not really matter. Let's put it this way. Have all those increases lowered poverty, or has poverty held pace and even increased since the MW was instituted?

What increases are you talking about? In real dollars the minimum wage is worth 75% of what it was in 1968. That's not a raise, that's a decrease LOL

 

[hadit]

Not yet, we'll see.

Again their customer base is low income. Increasing min wage increases sales. Unemploying people with machines is untested and decreases sales.

Lower prices increase sales. Higher prices decrease sales. When machines cost less to do a job than people do, prices go down. Low income people do what when prices go up? What do they do when prices go down? For the answer, ask yourself this. Where do low income people shop for clothes, Macy's or Wal-Mart?

If prices would go down and it was feasible they would be using machines now. They however don't.

The technology is new and will come down in price. Make humans too expensive, and the process will accelerate.

 

[hadit]

It has nothing to do with 'want[ing] people to make so little' - it's about not wanting to pay more for labor than it's worth.

Today, nobody uses the hamburger-making machine because minimum wage labor is less expensive - raise the wages and see what happens.

And, I can guarantee when Walmart employees cost more than robots, they're gone.

Given nobody is using burger making machines I think a min wage increase is pretty safe. Just like every other one has been safe.

Where do YOU think the tipping point is? $10? $15? $20? $50?

You better be right ....

Yes I know you are trying to scare everyone. I'm certain it can be increased without the sky falling. It always has been.

Only as long as the increase has been small enough to not really matter. Let's put it this way. Have all those increases lowered poverty, or has poverty held pace and even increased since the MW was instituted?

What increases are you talking about? In real dollars the minimum wage is worth 75% of what it was in 1968. That's not a raise, that's a decrease LOL

You're making my point. We've kept the increases low enough so as to be virtually meaningless. Even at that, some jobs have virtually disappeared. Who was the last telephone operator you've seen hired?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Not yet, we'll see.

Again their customer base is low income. Increasing min wage increases sales. Unemploying people with machines is untested and decreases sales.

Lower prices increase sales. Higher prices decrease sales. When machines cost less to do a job than people do, prices go down. Low income people do what when prices go up? What do they do when prices go down? For the answer, ask yourself this. Where do low income people shop for clothes, Macy's or Wal-Mart?

If prices would go down and it was feasible they would be using machines now. They however don't.

The technology is new and will come down in price. Make humans too expensive, and the process will accelerate.

Man, any excuse eh? The labor is 23% cheaper than it was in 1968 , do you get that?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Dont be a dumbass. Building a burger/chicken/fish sandwich machine is child's play.
You really need to look into CNC machines that can build an engine block out of a solid hunk of an aluminum or cast steel...in one set up.
Talk to me when you really understand the true ability of computerized numerical control... at this point you just sound foolish.

CNC machines don't cook food...

They absolutely can. Talk to me when you've spent 25 years working with em.
You truly dont know shit about automation.

A machine that can hold tenths of a thousands can make a burger without breaking a sweat.

There is no question as to whether it's possible. The question is whether a machine can be built at a reasonable price to provide burgers to the restaurant's specification, prepare the other foods the kitchen help must prepare, and be flexible enough to prepare other items the restaurant may decide to add to their menu.

The cost comes in when you start talking about precision.
The cost of precisi\n when your talking about cutting tomatoes is a joke.

I would say the costwould be pretty high for a machine that would cook everything the kitchen prepares andany items management might want to add to the menu plus meet all customer requests
A12nm

They absolutely can. Talk to me when you've spent 25 years working with em.
You truly dont know shit about automation.

A machine that can hold tenths of a thousands can make a burger without breaking a sweat.

There is no question as to whether it's possible. The question is whether a machine can be built at a reasonable price to provide burgers to the restaurant's specification, prepare the other foods the kitchen help must prepare, and be flexible enough to prepare other items the restaurant may decide to add to their menu.

The cost comes in when you start talking about precision.
The cost of precision when your talking about cutting tomatoes is a joke.

I would say the cost would be pretty high for a machine that would cook everything the kitchen prepares and any items management might want to add to the menu plus meet all customer requests.

And again you dont know shit.
A machine that can build a burger is childs play compared to a machine that can build a car block.

Of course you can build a burger machine but can you build a burger machine that meets the current and future needs of the restaurant at a price that makes sense.

Of course you can. And it's going to happen if min wage wackos get their way.

 

[Brain357]

Not yet, we'll see.

Again their customer base is low income. Increasing min wage increases sales. Unemploying people with machines is untested and decreases sales.

Lower prices increase sales. Higher prices decrease sales. When machines cost less to do a job than people do, prices go down. Low income people do what when prices go up? What do they do when prices go down? For the answer, ask yourself this. Where do low income people shop for clothes, Macy's or Wal-Mart?

If prices would go down and it was feasible they would be using machines now. They however don't.

The technology is new and will come down in price. Make humans too expensive, and the process will accelerate.

That has probably been said with every min wage increase. Hasnt happened though.

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

CNC machines don't cook food...

They absolutely can. Talk to me when you've spent 25 years working with em.
You truly dont know shit about automation.

A machine that can hold tenths of a thousands can make a burger without breaking a sweat.

There is no question as to whether it's possible. The question is whether a machine can be built at a reasonable price to provide burgers to the restaurant's specification, prepare the other foods the kitchen help must prepare, and be flexible enough to prepare other items the restaurant may decide to add to their menu.

The cost comes in when you start talking about precision.
The cost of precisi\n when your talking about cutting tomatoes is a joke.

I would say the costwould be pretty high for a machine that would cook everything the kitchen prepares andany items management might want to add to the menu plus meet all customer requests
A12nm

There is no question as to whether it's possible. The question is whether a machine can be built at a reasonable price to provide burgers to the restaurant's specification, prepare the other foods the kitchen help must prepare, and be flexible enough to prepare other items the restaurant may decide to add to their menu.

The cost comes in when you start talking about precision.
The cost of precision when your talking about cutting tomatoes is a joke.

I would say the cost would be pretty high for a machine that would cook everything the kitchen prepares and any items management might want to add to the menu plus meet all customer requests.

And again you dont know shit.
A machine that can build a burger is childs play compared to a machine that can build a car block.

Of course you can build a burger machine but can you build a burger machine that meets the current and future needs of the restaurant at a price that makes sense.

Of course you can. And it's going to happen if min wage wackos get their way.

True, and a person advocating a $15/hr min wage is a whacko, but so is the guy who says no raise at all, or worse get rid of the min wage law altogether. There are whackos on BOTH sides. Just as there is with almost every issue.

 

[EverCurious]

I think folks are forgetting that in the past robotics were not at the state they are today so you're not really considering the full economic picture when you argue "it's never caused job losses in the past" with min wage increases - as well as the argument against automation.

Incoming wall-of-text here, but while the min wage increaser's, 99% vs 1%, and "evil corporation" haters are busying themselves looking for any flaw to nail a CEO or company to the wall for "feelings" based slights, those in control are busy reading important business stuff - like the following, and that is but a small sample of the robotics door that is now opening to nearly every business. Businesses, and those who run them, constantly look to the future of the companies survival and prosperity in an ever changing world and economy, not merely the present economic outrage, or past transgression's that worker's do. The more the worker's argue for unions, expensive health care, other benefits, tighter safety restrictions, and slap them with bad PR and even lawsuits about transgressions of our employee's, the more businesses see those things /all/ go away with robotics.

This is the trend, /the/ trend, right now. I've highlighted and pulled out bits of just a couple recent articles I've run across in my free time this year alone; and I'm not even working for anyone. I guarantee you there are high paid exec's looking at this right now and considering how they can lower their labor costs and liabilities...

IFR Press Release - IFR International Federation of Robotics

"Chicago, 23 March 2015 - "Global demand for industrial robots in 2014 reached more than 200,000 units for the first time," said Arturo Baroncelli, President of the International Federation of Robotics (IFR) in Chicago. "Strongest drivers of the growth were the automotive industry followed by the electronics industry. Based on the preliminary results of the global statistics on industrial robots, the IFR estimates that about 225,000 units were sold in 2014, 27% more than in 2013."

"China was again by far the largest market destination for industrial robots in 2014. About 56,000 units were sold, 54% more than in 2013. Thereof, Chinese robot suppliers delivered 16,000 units and the international robot suppliers delivered about 40,000 units. Due to considerable investments of the automotive industry, South Korea was the second largest destination with about 39,000 units. It was followed by Japan, the United States and Germany. The five largest robot markets represent 75% of the total global sales in 2014."


Why China May Have the Most Factory Robots in the World by 2017 - Real Time Economics - WSJ

"A perfect storm of economic forces is fueling the trend. Chinese labor costs have soared, undermining the calculus that brought all those jobs to China in the first place, and new robot technology is cheaper and easier to deploy than ever before."


Why China s Factories Will Automate

"Chinese workers are becoming more educated, their salary, benefit, and lifestyle expectations are rising, and because of the demographics of single-child families, their numbers are shrinking. If cheap labor isn’t dead in China, it is terminally ill."

[...]

The Big Ones First

"Manufacturers are facing a stark choice: raise prices, downsize, or automate. Raising prices isn’t an option in a Wal-Mart world where places like Malaysia, Bangladesh, Mexico, Eastern Europe and even parts of the U.S. are already offering competitive pricing. Downsizing only offers a short-term answer when economies of scale are driving manufacturing, and is really only an option for companies who can make the shift to higher value-added products.

Which leaves automation as the answer for large manufacturers, especially contract manufacturers like Foxconn, Flextronics, and Quanta. Unable to depend on masses of workers lining up at their gates willing to work for a modest daily wage, each is thinking long and hard about automation.

Robots Don’t Jump

Beyond rising wages, law and custom in China leave companies liable for a range of benefits. Robots, on the other hand, do not require the company to invest in the real estate for dorms, cafeterias, break rooms, and other facilities, enabling the company to utilize all of its floor space for production, logistics, and support. What is more, robots don’t get sick, charge overtime, demand bonuses, or require companies to pay the additional “social” costs to the state that it would be required to pay for each worker.

And equally important, robots don’t jump out of windows. The Foxcon story has proven that there is a perception liability that comes with a larger number of workers. Whether Foxconn has ten thousand workers or two million, a single suicide or accident affects hurts the company just as much. Statistically the likelihood of such incidents rises as the number of employees grows. The coverage given to the company’s HR troubles proves that more workers mean more problems, so the best approach from the company’s point of view is to hire fewer workers.

I talk a lot about Foxconn and the technology outsourcing firms, but they are not alone. The automobile industry is a global pioneer of robotics, and Chinese factories are increasing the number of robots they are using. The packaged foods sectors rely on automation.

It is fair to say, though, that every sector is considering automation. Until last June I lived about 400 meters from the Beijing International Exhibition Center, and in 2013 the second most popular trade show – right after the Beijing International Auto Show – was the production automation exhibition. That’s apocryphal, but it is telling, and industrial robotics is about to get very hot in China."


BCG Puts Pricetag on the Rise of the Robots - Real Time Economics - WSJ

"The boom isn’t limited to advanced economies either, says a new report [*excerpts below] from the Boston Consulting Group. It’s no big surprise that demand is highest in notoriously robot-happy places like South Korea and Japan. But the fastest-growing market is actually China, a country that built its industrial backbone on the basis of cheap labor.

According to the report, annual spending on robots will reach about $27 billion next year and more than double to nearly $67 billion by 2025. “As prices come down and new performance thresholds are crossed, robots are migrating from industrial and military uses to commercial applications and the personal-services realm,” said the report.

The fastest-growing area for robots in coming years, says BCG, will be “personal” uses like entertainment, cleaning, and education—which is expected to grow from $1 billion in 2010 to $9 billion in 2025. However, industrial uses will remain the bread and butter of the industry, accounting for the lion’s share of the market in the future, as it is today.

The trend is truly global. Robots are now used to slice and pack lunch meats in Sweden and churn out razors in the Netherlands. “At some factories,” the report notes, “robots are even building other robots, producing about 50 robots per 24-hour shift and operating unsupervised for as long as 30 days at a time.”

bcg.perspectives - The Rise of Robotics

"today’s state-of-the-art robots are a far cry from that outdated stereotype. And they are showing up for work. Increasingly flexible, responsive, sensing—even humanlike—robots are beginning to augment and replace labor in a wide range of industries: a megatrend that is transforming the economics of manufacturing and reshaping the business landscape.

Already used to fight wars, remove dangerous land mines, and fill customer orders, robots can also clean, dance, and play the violin; assist with surgery and rehabilitation, bathe elderly patients, measure and deliver medication, and offer companionship; and provide disaster relief, report the news, and drive cars. In short, robots can perform quite a few of the jobs that humans currently do—often more efficiently and at a far lower cost.

Because robots can sharply improve productivity and offset regional differences in labor costs and availability, they’ll likely have a major impact on the competitiveness of companies and countries alike. For instance, countries with a greater number of robotic programmers and robotic infrastructure could become more attractive to manufacturers than countries with cheap labor. Changes such as these will fundamentally alter the competitive dynamics of the global economy."

[...]

"Initially, robots were used mainly for dirty, dull, repetitive, or dangerous tasks that did not require high precision, such as painting car doors or spot welding. Today’s robots, by contrast, are moving into a new range of precision applications far beyond the manufacturing realm. For instance, they’re enabling food processors to make products untouched by human hands. At Sweden-based Charkman Group, robots slice and pack high volumes of salami, ham, turkey, rolled pork, and other cooked meats. At the heart of the line is an intelligent portion-loading robot that can handle 150 picks per minute across multiple sizes and types of meat.

The fact that robotics and automation are crossing price, performance, and adoption thresholds is a clear indication that the robotic megatrend is growing in relevance and a tipping point may be near."

[...]

"In fact, as robotic technologies advance and their potential to affect more and more industries increases, the main factors holding back future adoption rates may be the concerns of politicians, the public, labor unions, and regulatory agencies, as well as human comfort levels at having robots drive our cars, care for our parents, and displace current workers."

[...]

"In the Netherlands, Philips uses 128 robots to make razors. The only humans are the nine workers who perform quality checks.

Robots can also do without lighting, heat, air conditioning, supervision, food, and bathroom breaks. As a result, “lights out” manufacturing plants that offer significant cost and energy savings are emerging. At some factories, robots are even building other robots, producing about 50 robots per 24-hour shift and operating unsupervised for as long as 30 days at a time."

[...]

"Nonindustrial applications are also emerging, changing competitive dynamics in sectors such as retail. For instance, Amazon.com, the world’s largest online retailer, paid $775 million in cash in 2012 to buy Kiva Systems, which makes warehouse robots. Small, fast, and flexible, these robots are constantly in action, moving large merchandise lots from shelves to the packing and shipping areas. Once a Kiva customer, Amazon acquired the robot maker to improve the productivity and margins in its massive network of warehouses and fulfillment centers. The move has helped Amazon maintain its low-cost advantage and stay a step ahead of the competition by providing a key advantage: the ability to offer one- and two-day guaranteed delivery for a wide range of goods. The company recently announced plans to increase the number of Kiva robots from 1,400 to 10,000 by the end of 2014, which could cut fulfillment costs for an average order by 20 to 40 percent. If Jeff Bezos has his way, robotic delivery drones will be next.

Megatrends affect different industries in distinct migration waves over time. For instance, e-commerce started with travel, books, and music, and then rapidly expanded into virtually every other product category and industry. The same dynamic is beginning to play out in the field of robotics."

[...]

Agricultural robots, or agbots, are being designed to pick fruit and vegetables, to minimize harvest time pressures, and to prepare for the day when labor laws make it tougher to get large numbers of migrant workers to help with harvesting. Tracking M&A activity related to robotics shows that new players are entering the field. (See Exhibit 2.) For instance, Google has bought more than eight robotic-related companies in the last year, prompting speculation about its plans for the future. The Google car, which drives itself and has a virtually unblemished safety record"

[...]

Robots can fundamentally change how work gets done. They can match human performance and even improve upon it in many areas. To prepare for and profit from the robotic megatrend, companies can start by identifying the following:

• Areas of Operations with High Labor Costs. Robotics can provide cost-saving alternatives in many areas and complement human workers in others.

• Tasks That People Can’t, Won’t, or Shouldn’t Do. Some jobs are too hazardous, unpleasant, or difficult for human beings—no matter how high the pay. Other tasks are just too mindless, repetitive, and boring. Robots can liberate workers from hazardous or unappealing jobs.

• Human Skill Gaps. In Japan, developers are exploring ways robots might provide nursing and elder care. Other scarce and needed skills and capabilities that robots can offer—such as data mining, rapid analysis, and super speed or strength—exist at levels not present in human beings.

• Mission-Critical Applications. Tasks that demand exceptional precision, flexibility, or speed—such as electronic-chip production—or that require maneuvering in small spaces lend themselves to robotics.

• High Complexity. The global nature of business has given rise to convoluted supply chains and vast supplier networks. Robotics offers a way to centrally manage and execute complex logistics and to customize products for different markets and even for individual customers."

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

I think folks are forgetting that in the past robotics were not at the state they are today so you're not really considering the full economic picture when you argue "it's never caused job losses in the past" with min wage increases - as well as the argument against automation.

Incoming wall-of-text here, but while the min wage increaser's, 99% vs 1%, and "evil corporation" haters are busying themselves looking for any flaw to nail a CEO or company to the wall for "feelings" based slights, those in control are busy reading important business stuff - like the following, and that is but a small sample of the robotics door that is now opening to nearly every business. Businesses, and those who run them, constantly look to the future of the companies survival and prosperity in an ever changing world and economy, not merely the present economic outrage, or past transgression's that worker's do. The more the worker's argue for unions, expensive health care, other benefits, tighter safety restrictions, and slap them with bad PR and even lawsuits about transgressions of our employee's, the more businesses see those things /all/ go away with robotics.

This is the trend, /the/ trend, right now. I've highlighted and pulled out bits of just a couple recent articles I've run across in my free time this year alone; and I'm not even working for anyone. I guarantee you there are high paid exec's looking at this right now and considering how they can lower their labor costs and liabilities...

IFR Press Release - IFR International Federation of Robotics

"Chicago, 23 March 2015 - "Global demand for industrial robots in 2014 reached more than 200,000 units for the first time," said Arturo Baroncelli, President of the International Federation of Robotics (IFR) in Chicago. "Strongest drivers of the growth were the automotive industry followed by the electronics industry. Based on the preliminary results of the global statistics on industrial robots, the IFR estimates that about 225,000 units were sold in 2014, 27% more than in 2013."

"China was again by far the largest market destination for industrial robots in 2014. About 56,000 units were sold, 54% more than in 2013. Thereof, Chinese robot suppliers delivered 16,000 units and the international robot suppliers delivered about 40,000 units. Due to considerable investments of the automotive industry, South Korea was the second largest destination with about 39,000 units. It was followed by Japan, the United States and Germany. The five largest robot markets represent 75% of the total global sales in 2014."


Why China May Have the Most Factory Robots in the World by 2017 - Real Time Economics - WSJ

"A perfect storm of economic forces is fueling the trend. Chinese labor costs have soared, undermining the calculus that brought all those jobs to China in the first place, and new robot technology is cheaper and easier to deploy than ever before."


Why China s Factories Will Automate

"Chinese workers are becoming more educated, their salary, benefit, and lifestyle expectations are rising, and because of the demographics of single-child families, their numbers are shrinking. If cheap labor isn’t dead in China, it is terminally ill."

[...]

The Big Ones First

"Manufacturers are facing a stark choice: raise prices, downsize, or automate. Raising prices isn’t an option in a Wal-Mart world where places like Malaysia, Bangladesh, Mexico, Eastern Europe and even parts of the U.S. are already offering competitive pricing. Downsizing only offers a short-term answer when economies of scale are driving manufacturing, and is really only an option for companies who can make the shift to higher value-added products.

Which leaves automation as the answer for large manufacturers, especially contract manufacturers like Foxconn, Flextronics, and Quanta. Unable to depend on masses of workers lining up at their gates willing to work for a modest daily wage, each is thinking long and hard about automation.

Robots Don’t Jump

Beyond rising wages, law and custom in China leave companies liable for a range of benefits. Robots, on the other hand, do not require the company to invest in the real estate for dorms, cafeterias, break rooms, and other facilities, enabling the company to utilize all of its floor space for production, logistics, and support. What is more, robots don’t get sick, charge overtime, demand bonuses, or require companies to pay the additional “social” costs to the state that it would be required to pay for each worker.

And equally important, robots don’t jump out of windows. The Foxcon story has proven that there is a perception liability that comes with a larger number of workers. Whether Foxconn has ten thousand workers or two million, a single suicide or accident affects hurts the company just as much. Statistically the likelihood of such incidents rises as the number of employees grows. The coverage given to the company’s HR troubles proves that more workers mean more problems, so the best approach from the company’s point of view is to hire fewer workers.

I talk a lot about Foxconn and the technology outsourcing firms, but they are not alone. The automobile industry is a global pioneer of robotics, and Chinese factories are increasing the number of robots they are using. The packaged foods sectors rely on automation.

It is fair to say, though, that every sector is considering automation. Until last June I lived about 400 meters from the Beijing International Exhibition Center, and in 2013 the second most popular trade show – right after the Beijing International Auto Show – was the production automation exhibition. That’s apocryphal, but it is telling, and industrial robotics is about to get very hot in China."


BCG Puts Pricetag on the Rise of the Robots - Real Time Economics - WSJ

"The boom isn’t limited to advanced economies either, says a new report [*excerpts below] from the Boston Consulting Group. It’s no big surprise that demand is highest in notoriously robot-happy places like South Korea and Japan. But the fastest-growing market is actually China, a country that built its industrial backbone on the basis of cheap labor.

According to the report, annual spending on robots will reach about $27 billion next year and more than double to nearly $67 billion by 2025. “As prices come down and new performance thresholds are crossed, robots are migrating from industrial and military uses to commercial applications and the personal-services realm,” said the report.

The fastest-growing area for robots in coming years, says BCG, will be “personal” uses like entertainment, cleaning, and education—which is expected to grow from $1 billion in 2010 to $9 billion in 2025. However, industrial uses will remain the bread and butter of the industry, accounting for the lion’s share of the market in the future, as it is today.

The trend is truly global. Robots are now used to slice and pack lunch meats in Sweden and churn out razors in the Netherlands. “At some factories,” the report notes, “robots are even building other robots, producing about 50 robots per 24-hour shift and operating unsupervised for as long as 30 days at a time.”

bcg.perspectives - The Rise of Robotics

"today’s state-of-the-art robots are a far cry from that outdated stereotype. And they are showing up for work. Increasingly flexible, responsive, sensing—even humanlike—robots are beginning to augment and replace labor in a wide range of industries: a megatrend that is transforming the economics of manufacturing and reshaping the business landscape.

Already used to fight wars, remove dangerous land mines, and fill customer orders, robots can also clean, dance, and play the violin; assist with surgery and rehabilitation, bathe elderly patients, measure and deliver medication, and offer companionship; and provide disaster relief, report the news, and drive cars. In short, robots can perform quite a few of the jobs that humans currently do—often more efficiently and at a far lower cost.

Because robots can sharply improve productivity and offset regional differences in labor costs and availability, they’ll likely have a major impact on the competitiveness of companies and countries alike. For instance, countries with a greater number of robotic programmers and robotic infrastructure could become more attractive to manufacturers than countries with cheap labor. Changes such as these will fundamentally alter the competitive dynamics of the global economy."

[...]

"Initially, robots were used mainly for dirty, dull, repetitive, or dangerous tasks that did not require high precision, such as painting car doors or spot welding. Today’s robots, by contrast, are moving into a new range of precision applications far beyond the manufacturing realm. For instance, they’re enabling food processors to make products untouched by human hands. At Sweden-based Charkman Group, robots slice and pack high volumes of salami, ham, turkey, rolled pork, and other cooked meats. At the heart of the line is an intelligent portion-loading robot that can handle 150 picks per minute across multiple sizes and types of meat.

The fact that robotics and automation are crossing price, performance, and adoption thresholds is a clear indication that the robotic megatrend is growing in relevance and a tipping point may be near."

[...]

"In fact, as robotic technologies advance and their potential to affect more and more industries increases, the main factors holding back future adoption rates may be the concerns of politicians, the public, labor unions, and regulatory agencies, as well as human comfort levels at having robots drive our cars, care for our parents, and displace current workers."

[...]

"In the Netherlands, Philips uses 128 robots to make razors. The only humans are the nine workers who perform quality checks.

Robots can also do without lighting, heat, air conditioning, supervision, food, and bathroom breaks. As a result, “lights out” manufacturing plants that offer significant cost and energy savings are emerging. At some factories, robots are even building other robots, producing about 50 robots per 24-hour shift and operating unsupervised for as long as 30 days at a time."

[...]

"Nonindustrial applications are also emerging, changing competitive dynamics in sectors such as retail. For instance, Amazon.com, the world’s largest online retailer, paid $775 million in cash in 2012 to buy Kiva Systems, which makes warehouse robots. Small, fast, and flexible, these robots are constantly in action, moving large merchandise lots from shelves to the packing and shipping areas. Once a Kiva customer, Amazon acquired the robot maker to improve the productivity and margins in its massive network of warehouses and fulfillment centers. The move has helped Amazon maintain its low-cost advantage and stay a step ahead of the competition by providing a key advantage: the ability to offer one- and two-day guaranteed delivery for a wide range of goods. The company recently announced plans to increase the number of Kiva robots from 1,400 to 10,000 by the end of 2014, which could cut fulfillment costs for an average order by 20 to 40 percent. If Jeff Bezos has his way, robotic delivery drones will be next.

Megatrends affect different industries in distinct migration waves over time. For instance, e-commerce started with travel, books, and music, and then rapidly expanded into virtually every other product category and industry. The same dynamic is beginning to play out in the field of robotics."

[...]

Agricultural robots, or agbots, are being designed to pick fruit and vegetables, to minimize harvest time pressures, and to prepare for the day when labor laws make it tougher to get large numbers of migrant workers to help with harvesting. Tracking M&A activity related to robotics shows that new players are entering the field. (See Exhibit 2.) For instance, Google has bought more than eight robotic-related companies in the last year, prompting speculation about its plans for the future. The Google car, which drives itself and has a virtually unblemished safety record"

[...]

Robots can fundamentally change how work gets done. They can match human performance and even improve upon it in many areas. To prepare for and profit from the robotic megatrend, companies can start by identifying the following:

• Areas of Operations with High Labor Costs. Robotics can provide cost-saving alternatives in many areas and complement human workers in others.

• Tasks That People Can’t, Won’t, or Shouldn’t Do. Some jobs are too hazardous, unpleasant, or difficult for human beings—no matter how high the pay. Other tasks are just too mindless, repetitive, and boring. Robots can liberate workers from hazardous or unappealing jobs.

• Human Skill Gaps. In Japan, developers are exploring ways robots might provide nursing and elder care. Other scarce and needed skills and capabilities that robots can offer—such as data mining, rapid analysis, and super speed or strength—exist at levels not present in human beings.

• Mission-Critical Applications. Tasks that demand exceptional precision, flexibility, or speed—such as electronic-chip production—or that require maneuvering in small spaces lend themselves to robotics.

• High Complexity. The global nature of business has given rise to convoluted supply chains and vast supplier networks. Robotics offers a way to centrally manage and execute complex logistics and to customize products for different markets and even for individual customers."

Just stop with the " I oppose a raise in the minimum wage law for minimum wage employee's own good" bullshit.

 

[hadit]

Not yet, we'll see.

Again their customer base is low income. Increasing min wage increases sales. Unemploying people with machines is untested and decreases sales.

Lower prices increase sales. Higher prices decrease sales. When machines cost less to do a job than people do, prices go down. Low income people do what when prices go up? What do they do when prices go down? For the answer, ask yourself this. Where do low income people shop for clothes, Macy's or Wal-Mart?

If prices would go down and it was feasible they would be using machines now. They however don't.

The technology is new and will come down in price. Make humans too expensive, and the process will accelerate.

Man, any excuse eh? The labor is 23% cheaper than it was in 1968 , do you get that?

Economics is not the only factor at play here, but it is the ultimate force that pushes companies to make decisions. If your business model is fast and cheap, you'll replace humans with machines at every opportunity. Notice that you don't have to have a cashier ring up your purchases in the supermarket if you don't want to?

 

[SmarterThanTheAverageBear]

Again their customer base is low income. Increasing min wage increases sales. Unemploying people with machines is untested and decreases sales.

Lower prices increase sales. Higher prices decrease sales. When machines cost less to do a job than people do, prices go down. Low income people do what when prices go up? What do they do when prices go down? For the answer, ask yourself this. Where do low income people shop for clothes, Macy's or Wal-Mart?

If prices would go down and it was feasible they would be using machines now. They however don't.

The technology is new and will come down in price. Make humans too expensive, and the process will accelerate.

Man, any excuse eh? The labor is 23% cheaper than it was in 1968 , do you get that?

Economics is not the only factor at play here, but it is the ultimate force that pushes companies to make decisions. If your business model is fast and cheap, you'll replace humans with machines at every opportunity. Notice that you don't have to have a cashier ring up your purchases in the supermarket if you don't want to?

Yes and notice that Wal Mart did that without a min wage increase ?

It's a stupid argument . Regardless of the min wage when burger machines are feasible they will be here. Who cares? Because minimum wage jobs will ALWAYS exist. ALWAYS. And so the min wage should reflect the reality not some what if scenario. The reality is NO ONE could support themselves on $7.25 an hour. Why you are happy to let the taxpayer pick up the slack is beyond me.