Mormon girl comes out as gay in church. The church cuts her mic...

[LittleNipper]

It was not the time nor place for it. And, if not consistent with their teachings, totally appropriate.
Think of it in reverse....

I thought it was totally appropriate.

Just like was totally appropriate that 30 years ago, someone asked the Mormon Church why they still banned black from their clergy.

The real problem all the churches now face is that sensible people realize that homophobia is an unacceptable bigotry.

The problem is that most sensible people are afraid to say anything that might get them labeled by a society full of despots and self-righteous hypocrites seeking votes...

 

[Bob Blaylock]

The problem is that most sensible people are afraid to say anything that might get them labeled by a society full of despots and self-righteous hypocrites seeking votes...

This reminds me of a story from The Book of Mormon, of a vision that Lehi had. In this vision, Lehi saw a great and spacious building, full of wicked people who mocked and scoffed at those who were seeking or who had found salvation, causing many to be ashamed and intimidated, and to wander off into the darkness and be lost.

Do we not see this very thing happening in our society today? Those who have embraced evil and madness have an attitude of mockery and scorn toward those of us who try to be good and decent, and too many of us allow ourselves to be shamed and intimidated into giving way to evil, rather than standing against it.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes. I believe Joseph Smith to be a con. However, you I thought the LDS faith is a false religion. I disagree with some tenets; I agree with others. Therefore, any announcements about what I believe about the LDS faith should come from me.

You can't say that Joseph Smith was a con, which he was, and then claim that LDS is a true religion. You are being logically inconsistent even by the standards of people who believe there is a magic pixie in the sky.

Either God is talking to the Pope, or he's talking to Joseph Smith. you can't have it both ways.

 

[BreezeWood]

The problem is that most sensible people are afraid to say anything that might get them labeled by a society full of despots and self-righteous hypocrites seeking votes...

This reminds me of a story from The Book of Mormon, of a vision that Lehi had. In this vision, Lehi saw a great and spacious building, full of wicked people who mocked and scoffed at those who were seeking or who had found salvation, causing many to be ashamed and intimidated, and to wander off into the darkness and be lost.

Do we not see this very thing happening in our society today? Those who have embraced evil and madness have an attitude of mockery and scorn toward those of us who try to be good and decent, and too many of us allow ourselves to be shamed and intimidated into giving way to evil, rather than standing against it.

.

... and too many of us allow ourselves to be shamed and intimidated into giving way to evil, rather than standing against it.

your summation is most appropriate for the congregation's willingness to be stiffed by a single decision to deny their free association among themselves.

 

[JoeB131]

The problem is that most sensible people are afraid to say anything that might get them labeled by a society full of despots and self-righteous hypocrites seeking votes...

So what's your "Sensible" argument against homosexuality?

You can't say "I think it's icky", because straight people engage in fellatio, cunnilingus and anal, too.

And you can't say, "God says it's bad", because there are a whole shitload of things that God says are bad, including posting on a message board on the Sabbath like you are doing today.

This reminds me of a story from The Book of Mormon, of a vision that Lehi had. In this vision, Lehi saw a great and spacious building, full of wicked people who mocked and scoffed at those who were seeking or who had found salvation, causing many to be ashamed and intimidated, and to wander off into the darkness and be lost.

Do we not see this very thing happening in our society today? Those who have embraced evil and madness have an attitude of mockery and scorn toward those of us who try to be good and decent, and too many of us allow ourselves to be shamed and intimidated into giving way to evil, rather than standing against it.

Again, I think there's nothing wrong with standing up against bad behavior.

But you homophobes really haven't shown me yet why two people who love each other are "wicked" because they happen to be of the same sex.

Meanwhile, the Book of Mormon said it was perfectly okay for Joseph Smith and Brigham Young to marry multiple women, some of them girls as young as 14.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

You can't say that Joseph Smith was a con, which he was, and then claim that LDS is a true religion. You are being logically inconsistent even by the standards of people who believe there is a magic pixie in the sky.

Either God is talking to the Pope, or he's talking to Joseph Smith. you can't have it both ways.

An ignorant, hateful fool, who denies God, who mocks the very idea of God, certainly does not get to dictate on what terms God will or will not communicate with us, or what we who acknowledge him may or may not believe about him.

 

[JoeB131]

An ignorant, hateful fool, who denies God, who mocks the very idea of God, certainly does not get to dictate on what terms God will or will not communicate with us, or what we who acknowledge him may or may not believe about him.

Hey, I tried communicating with your sky pixie once. I said, "God, please don't let my mom die of cancer".

He was too busy "not existing" to answer back.

 

[Meriweather]

You can't say that Joseph Smith was a con, which he was, and then claim that LDS is a true religion. You are being logically inconsistent even by the standards of people who believe there is a magic pixie in the sky.

Either God is talking to the Pope, or he's talking to Joseph Smith. you can't have it both ways.

Joseph Smith certainly wouldn't be the first nor the last to use people's longing for God to make their own fortune or power base. Early Mormons weren't the first--nor the last--to decide their search for God wasn't working the old way, so why not try something new.

People do have a longing for God, and they do feel loyalty and affection to those who help them find what they seek. Also, God is reaching for each individual where they are. I knew a man who was fond of saying, "Can make it to the Kingdom on your own--got to take someone with you."

In the end a con man, a tactless nun in a perpetually bad mood, or the worst Pope on record cannot stand between God and His people. The funny thing is that the con man, the tactless nun, and the worst pope all probably helped people in spite themselves. Meanwhile, no matter how much some of us really, really want to help a specific individual we won't ever be able to reach them, because in the end that connection is between that person and God.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

An ignorant, hateful fool, who denies God, who mocks the very idea of God, certainly does not get to dictate on what terms God will or will not communicate with us, or what we who acknowledge him may or may not believe about him.

Hey, I tried communicating with your sky pixie once. I said, "God, please don't let my mom die of cancer".

He was too busy "not existing" to answer back.

Did you call Him Sky Pixie when communicating? If you don't know Him and have a personal relationship with Him why do you think He'd honor your request?

Also, everyone eventually dies, that's life...or the end of it in the here and now.

 

[JoeB131]

Did you call Him Sky Pixie when communicating? If you don't know Him and have a personal relationship with Him why do you think He'd honor your request?

Also, everyone eventually dies, that's life...or the end of it in the here and now.

Naw, I was a very devout Catholic growing up, and spent years fighting down the obvious realization these people were full of shit.

Then mom died and that pretty much settled the issue.

Joseph Smith certainly wouldn't be the first nor the last to use people's longing for God to make their own fortune or power base. Early Mormons weren't the first--nor the last--to decide their search for God wasn't working the old way, so why not try something new.

That's the wrong question. The wrong question is, why does God let a con man get away with it? Why not just hit Joe Smith with a blue bolt of lightening? Jesus Christ (no pun intended) he was banging 14 year old girls.

In the end a con man, a tactless nun in a perpetually bad mood, or the worst Pope on record cannot stand between God and His people. The funny thing is that the con man, the tactless nun, and the worst pope all probably helped people in spite themselves. Meanwhile, no matter how much some of us really, really want to help a specific individual we won't ever be able to reach them, because in the end that connection is between that person and God.

Hey, there was nothing wrong with Sister Mary X that some scented candles and some k.d. lang albums couldn't have fixed.

But here's the problem. Let's give you a huge mulligan and say that Catholics are right. That means the 6 billion people who aren't Catholics are wrong. It seems like God let a whole lot of people get between him and his people.

Hey, wouldn't it be awesome if this happens in the afterlife?

 

[Meriweather]

But here's the problem. Let's give you a huge mulligan and say that Catholics are right. That means the 6 billion people who aren't Catholics are wrong. It seems like God let a whole lot of people get between him and his people.

Hey, wouldn't it be awesome if this happens in the afterlife?

Two things. First, we are told God's ways are not our ways, that as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are God's ways different from our own. This means that no matter which religion we choose to follow, that denomination will only be a few feet closer to God than the sect that is most in error.

I am not Catholic because I like what it teaches about the next life. I am Catholic because I like what it teaches about how to live this life. It works for me and has made my life a joyful, fulfilling one despite all the hard times and sorrows. It has brought me closer to God and His ways.

Second, Jesus told us just as the healthy have no need of a physician, not all have need of him. He came for those of us who do.

Finally, in today's Gospel Jesus was teaching that the Kingdom of God gathers up fish of all kinds. Those that are good are kept, those that aren't good are thrown away. He also said the Kingdom of God is like a merchant searching for fine pearls. Just as a merchant will give all he has for a fine pearl, so will the Kingdom give all it has to a fine person.

Joe, you can be like a big, healthy bully who is living the high life, kicking around and mocking those who are not so fortunate as he. Life is kind of like that, but what makes life glorious for those of us who much weaker who a have tough time is that even when overshadowed by bullies, we are not forgotten. You have your reward as someone superior; we have ours as the lowly who are loved all the same.

 

[JoeB131]

Two things. First, we are told God's ways are not our ways, that as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are God's ways different from our own. This means that no matter which religion we choose to follow, that denomination will only be a few feet closer to God than the sect that is most in error.

But that's not what most religions teach. Most religions, incluidng yours, teach that non-members are going to Hell and even most members are going to Hell if they aren't Holy enough.

Finally, in today's Gospel Jesus was teaching that the Kingdom of God gathers up fish of all kinds. Those that are good are kept, those that aren't good are thrown away. He also said the Kingdom of God is like a merchant searching for fine pearls. Just as a merchant will give all he has for a fine pearl, so will the Kingdom give all it has to a fine person.

The thing about that is that the standards are kind of messed up.

So let's take Jeff Dahmner. After having gay sex with and eating 17 guys, Old Jeff found Jesus in prison and was baptized right before another inmate brained him to death. By Christian philosophy, he goes right to heaven, where we can only hope he doesn't run into any of the guys he ate, because that would be awkward.

Meanwhile, Ann Frank was forced to hide in an attic before being sent to a concentration camp where she died. She remained a Jew and never accepted Jesus as her Lord and Savior. Probably because it was Christians murdering her family. So she goes to Hell to burn forever and ever right next to Hitler

THIS IS FUCKED UP, AND I WOULD REJECT IT EVEN IF I HAD PROOF OF IT BEING TRUE!

Joe, you can be like a big, healthy bully who is living the high life, kicking around and mocking those who are not so fortunate as he. Life is kind of like that, but what makes life glorious for those of us who much weaker who a have tough time is that even when overshadowed by bullies, we are not forgotten. You have your reward as someone superior; we have ours as the lowly who are loved all the same.

I've had a much harder life than most people. Losing both parents at a young age just being the start of it. And what fortune I have had is because I fight my way through setbacks and difficulties.

What I don't do is wait for a magic sky pixie to help, because that's a long wait for a train that never comes.

I m ock Religion because I think it makes people weak and go along with injustice.Why try to fix the here and now when we are all going to get rewards and punishments in the afterlife.

 

[Meriweather]

[But that's not what most religions teach. Most religions, incluidng yours, teach that non-members are going to Hell and even most members are going to Hell if they aren't Holy enough.

This is untrue, the conclusion of someone who as a child/teen. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says nothing of the sort. In fact, it notes the eternal covenant God made with those who follow the Jewish faith. This is what the Catholic Church actually teaches: The Church conscientiously teaches what Christ and the Apostles taught, as that, if followed diligently, is the narrow gate, the guaranteed entrance into the Kingdom of God. That is the only path the Catholic Church can guarantee. All other paths are left to the mercy, love, and grace of God. "We can't guarantee your path" is much different from "Non-Catholics are going to hell." That is NOT the Church's judgment, and during my lifetime that has been the adamant assertion. Catholics believe only God knows who, if anyone, is in hell.

So let's take Jeff Dahmner. After having gay sex with and eating 17 guys, Old Jeff found Jesus in prison and was baptized right before another inmate brained him to death. By Christian philosophy, he goes right to heaven, where we can only hope he doesn't run into any of the guys he ate, because that would be awkward.

Meanwhile, Ann Frank was forced to hide in an attic before being sent to a concentration camp where she died. She remained a Jew and never accepted Jesus as her Lord and Savior. Probably because it was Christians murdering her family. So she goes to Hell to burn forever and ever right next to Hitler

THIS IS FUCKED UP, AND I WOULD REJECT IT EVEN IF I HAD PROOF OF IT BEING TRUE!

You take Jeff Dahmer and make up any untruth you wish. Catholic teaching is that only God knows, because only God knows Dahmer's heart when he was baptized and at the moment of his death. As I said, as far as Anne Frank goes, the Catholic Church points to the Jewish Covenant, as Anne Frank was a Jew. According to the Jewish Covenant (which Catholics honor), Anne Frank is just fine. According to Catholicism, again, only God knows for certain, and we trust in God's love and grace.

I've had a much harder life than most people. Losing both parents at a young age just being the start of it. And what fortune I have had is because I fight my way through setbacks and difficulties.

What I don't do is wait for a magic sky pixie to help, because that's a long wait for a train that never comes.

I m ock Religion because I think it makes people weak and go along with injustice.Why try to fix the here and now when we are all going to get rewards and punishments in the afterlife.

You know nothing about religion as evidenced in your posts. You are bitter towards it because it wasn't the magic Genii in the Bottle that you decided you wanted religion to be. And it's not. Where we both agree is that there is no "Magic Sky Pixie." You simply concluded that is is what other people believed. A conclusion is the point where someone stops thinking. You stopped thinking at a very young age--if you ever even began thinking on religion to begin with.

Truly, Joe, I want you to be at peace and happy. Obviously, religion isn't going to deliver that to you any more than a brownie I decided is made of poop and mud is ever going to appeal to me. I'll have to change my thinking on brownies, before a brownie ever has a chance. You would have to change your thinking about religion (and you seem very adamant that you won't) for religion to ever have a chance. All I can tell you is that your views on religion is about as accurate as my assertion that all brownies are made of poop and mud.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

The church is the single most fascist institution humanity has ever thought up. It is a place of hatred and scorn for no reason.

FUCK THE CHURCH. Good for this girl.

This from the guy who wants to watch all the porn (that stuff that degrades women) he wants.

 

[JoeB131]

This is untrue, the conclusion of someone who as a child/teen. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says nothing of the sort. In fact, it notes the eternal covenant God made with those who follow the Jewish faith. This is what the Catholic Church actually teaches: The Church conscientiously teaches what Christ and the Apostles taught, as that, if followed diligently, is the narrow gate, the guaranteed entrance into the Kingdom of God. That is the only path the Catholic Church can guarantee. All other paths are left to the mercy, love, and grace of God. "We can't guarantee your path" is much different from "Non-Catholics are going to hell." That is NOT the Church's judgment, and during my lifetime that has been the adamant assertion. Catholics believe only God knows who, if anyone, is in hell.

oh, the Catholic Church does all sorts of fairy magic. I remember the gave us all something called a "scapular' that was supposed to protect us from the fires of hell no matter what we did wrong.

Not to mention when I was growing up, they used to teach about Limbo, which is where unbaptized babies and nice people who weren't Christians went... They've taken that out of the teachings since then.

You take Jeff Dahmer and make up any untruth you wish. Catholic teaching is that only God knows, because only God knows Dahmer's heart when he was baptized and at the moment of his death. As I said, as far as Anne Frank goes, the Catholic Church points to the Jewish Covenant, as Anne Frank was a Jew. According to the Jewish Covenant (which Catholics honor), Anne Frank is just fine. According to Catholicism, again, only God knows for certain, and we trust in God's love and grace.

You see, there's the problem with that. I don't care how sorry Chef Jeff was or how much he kissed God's ass. He killed and ATE 17 people, including a child. If there is an afterlife, he should be punished. And again, i'm not sure where Ann went after the whole Limbo thing was taken out of the liturgy.

You know nothing about religion as evidenced in your posts. You are bitter towards it because it wasn't the magic Genii in the Bottle that you decided you wanted religion to be. And it's not. Where we both agree is that there is no "Magic Sky Pixie." You simply concluded that is is what other people believed. A conclusion is the point where someone stops thinking. You stopped thinking at a very young age--if you ever even began thinking on religion to begin with.

I think quite the contrary, what became obvious to me at a young age is the contradictions and illogic of what I was being taught, even in the Disney-fied version of bible stories that the Nuns were telling us. Long before my parents ever got sick. A God who drowns EVERY BABY IN THE WORLD cannot be considered good. A God who kills a baby to teach King David a lesson cannot be considered good.

Yes, I really thought about those things, and got quite a few rulers across the knuckles for daring to ask the questions.

Truly, Joe, I want you to be at peace and happy. Obviously, religion isn't going to deliver that to you any more than a brownie I decided is made of poop and mud is ever going to appeal to me. I'll have to change my thinking on brownies, before a brownie ever has a chance. You would have to change your thinking about religion (and you seem very adamant that you won't) for religion to ever have a chance. All I can tell you is that your views on religion is about as accurate as my assertion that all brownies are made of poop and mud.

If it smells like shit and it looks like shit and the tests come back saying it's shit... it's shit.

THe thing is, If I rounded up every priest in the country and threw his ass off the top of the Sears tower, I know with certainty God wouldn't catch a ONE of them on the way down. Even the 1% who are probably not pedophiles. Because he's too busy not existing.

There are a whole list of sky pixies nobody worships anymore... Zeus, Odin, Quezocoatl, Osiris, etc. and people were just as absolutely convinced of their existence as you are of Jehovah's existence.

 

[Meriweather]

oh, the Catholic Church does all sorts of fairy magic. I remember the gave us all something called a "scapular' that was supposed to protect us from the fires of hell no matter what we did wrong.

Not to mention when I was growing up, they used to teach about Limbo, which is where unbaptized babies and nice people who weren't Christians went... They've taken that out of the teachings since then.

You see, there's the problem with that. I don't care how sorry Chef Jeff was or how much he kissed God's ass. He killed and ATE 17 people, including a child. If there is an afterlife, he should be punished. And again, i'm not sure where Ann went after the whole Limbo thing was taken out of the liturgy.

I think quite the contrary, what became obvious to me at a young age is the contradictions and illogic of what I was being taught, even in the Disney-fied version of bible stories that the Nuns were telling us. Long before my parents ever got sick. A God who drowns EVERY BABY IN THE WORLD cannot be considered good. A God who kills a baby to teach King David a lesson cannot be considered good.

Yes, I really thought about those things, and got quite a few rulers across the knuckles for daring to ask the questions.

THe thing is, If I rounded up every priest in the country and threw his ass off the top of the Sears tower, I know with certainty God wouldn't catch a ONE of them on the way down. Even the 1% who are probably not pedophiles. Because he's too busy not existing.

There are a whole list of sky pixies nobody worships anymore... Zeus, Odin, Quezocoatl, Osiris, etc. and people were just as absolutely convinced of their existence as you are of Jehovah's existence.

1. Scapulars are not magic objects, but meditative/contemplative works of art. Jews, with their dietary laws and daily rituals, Muslims with their times of prayer have the same approach: To keep one's attention focused on God and the ways of God. Can't help it if you personally decide it's magic.

2. The teaching on limbo went back to what it originally was: i.e. neither scripture nor apostolic tradition teaches what happens to unbaptized babies--so instead of making something up, the Church (at that time) said we are in limbo (we don't know) when it comes to that question. Over time, parishioners began to think of limbo as a place. The Church has since corrected that impression.

3. Noah's flood was a natural disaster, of which God tried to warn the people. Only one man and his family listened. Everyone else had things they considered more important than being in tune with the voice of God. They and their babies paid dearly for that neglect.

4. All the questions you say you were rapped on the knuckles for were raised in my class as well. No knuckle rapping. We were given actual answers. Including the time when we were told to look at the people around us--front back and side. We were told only one out of four of us would remain Catholic. Joe, you are a statistic, just one of three out of four who choose to give up religion in their childhood or teens.

5. That's right. You can throw every priest you round up off the Sear's Tower. You can kill six million Jews in a Holocaust. Down through the ages there have been many martyrs to the Catholic faith. They all died--just like the babies in Noah's flood, just like those that Jeff Dahmer murdered. God is not a Genii. This world is not Disneyland. Forces of nature are strong, so is evil. Forces for good are even stronger.

6. If the names for God have vanished or changed through the ages, one thing has not: People have, are, and will continue to recognize and follow a Spirit greater than themselves. The difference in vision: I think it comes from those who begin with no expectations of God, and just want to learn and get to know him. That versus those who have created some magical fantasy in their own minds and are crushed when their great fantasy is not realized. My atheist husband is upfront about this. "God isn't who I wanted Him to be, so why bother?" This versus my position of, "I just wanted to know who God actually is."

 

[LittleNipper]

An ignorant, hateful fool, who denies God, who mocks the very idea of God, certainly does not get to dictate on what terms God will or will not communicate with us, or what we who acknowledge him may or may not believe about him.

Hey, I tried communicating with your sky pixie once. I said, "God, please don't let my mom die of cancer".

He was too busy "not existing" to answer back.

I'm sorry for your loss. My wish is that your mother is totally happy in heaven. My Mother died but I have faith that she went to heaven and will meet her there one day. To realize that you're dying and that you need to get things right with GOD isn't necessary the worst way to go. EVERYONE is going to die. AND at least you had an opportunity to say good'bye. The dad that is run over by a truck crossing the street might have just said "Bye, see you later!" before heading to work... Did you ask your mother if she believed in Jesus?

 

[Avatar4321]

An ignorant, hateful fool, who denies God, who mocks the very idea of God, certainly does not get to dictate on what terms God will or will not communicate with us, or what we who acknowledge him may or may not believe about him.

Hey, I tried communicating with your sky pixie once. I said, "God, please don't let my mom die of cancer".

He was too busy "not existing" to answer back.

I'm sorry about your mother. We might all have a time appointed to die but that doesn't make it easier. It must have been very difficult to still cause you to be so angry at Him when you don't believe in Him.

God doesn't always answer our prayers the way we want Him to. That doesn't mean He isn't there. Or that He doesn't care about us. His answers usually don't remove trials but give us wisdom on how to endure and over come them with joy and good cheer.

When you are tired of holding onto the anger talk to Him again. Seek His love and give the anger to Him. He has taken much heavier loads before. He will help you

 

[JoeB131]

1. Scapulars are not magic objects, but meditative/contemplative works of art. Jews, with their dietary laws and daily rituals, Muslims with their times of prayer have the same approach: To keep one's attention focused on God and the ways of God. Can't help it if you personally decide it's magic.

again, you need to talk to the nuns and priests who told impressionable children that they were after scaring the shit out of us about how awful hell was.

And when you get down to it, that's what this thread is kind of about. How churches indoctrinate children. the Tobacco companies have nothing on Big Religion.

2. The teaching on limbo went back to what it originally was: i.e. neither scripture nor apostolic tradition teaches what happens to unbaptized babies--so instead of making something up, the Church (at that time) said we are in limbo (we don't know) when it comes to that question. Over time, parishioners began to think of limbo as a place. The Church has since corrected that impression.

Again, that's not what the Church taught for centuries and was STILL teaching up until the 1970's when I went to school. The fact that it wasn't playing well with test audiences and they had to change their dogma just kind of shows how much of bullshit this was. "Whoops, there weren't any witches or Limbo?"

That really falls into the line of "We are making this shit up!"

3. Noah's flood was a natural disaster, of which God tried to warn the people. Only one man and his family listened. Everyone else had things they considered more important than being in tune with the voice of God. They and their babies paid dearly for that neglect.

That's not what the bible says. The bible clearly says that God created the flood to destroy mankind for its wickedness.

6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

4. All the questions you say you were rapped on the knuckles for were raised in my class as well. No knuckle rapping. We were given actual answers. Including the time when we were told to look at the people around us--front back and side. We were told only one out of four of us would remain Catholic. Joe, you are a statistic, just one of three out of four who choose to give up religion in their childhood or teens.

No, I'm someone who saw through the bullshit. I'm sorry one out of four of you are so brainwashed that you keep slurping it down with a big stupid smile.

5. That's right. You can throw every priest you round up off the Sear's Tower. You can kill six million Jews in a Holocaust. Down through the ages there have been many martyrs to the Catholic faith. They all died--just like the babies in Noah's flood, just like those that Jeff Dahmer murdered. God is not a Genii. This world is not Disneyland. Forces of nature are strong, so is evil. Forces for good are even stronger.

No, God isn't a Genii. He doesn't exist. That's my point. He doesn't stop any bad thing from happening. He didn't stop the Holocaust. The Red Army did. He didn't stop Jeff Dahmner. The Milwaukee Police did (after dropping the ball a bunch of times.)

6. If the names for God have vanished or changed through the ages, one thing has not: People have, are, and will continue to recognize and follow a Spirit greater than themselves. The difference in vision: I think it comes from those who begin with no expectations of God, and just want to learn and get to know him. That versus those who have created some magical fantasy in their own minds and are crushed when their great fantasy is not realized. My atheist husband is upfront about this. "God isn't who I wanted Him to be, so why bother?" This versus my position of, "I just wanted to know who God actually is."

But again- missing the point. If "all the gods are true, let's enjoy some pancakes" interfaith breakfast view is true, what's the point of having a religion. If Quezacoatl is just as true a name of God as Jehovah, does that mean that God was totally cool with ripping people's hearts out to keep the sun in the sky?

so if all religions are just guesses, what makes your silly guess any more valid? That you have a 2000 year scam of nice art and pedophile priests. "Whoops. Better get rid of Limbo, it's not playing well with the test audiences!"

 

[JoeB131]

God doesn't always answer our prayers the way we want Him to. That doesn't mean He isn't there. Or that He doesn't care about us.

Yeah, it kind of does.

I'm sorry for your loss. My wish is that your mother is totally happy in heaven. My Mother died but I have faith that she went to heaven and will meet her there one day. To realize that you're dying and that you need to get things right with GOD isn't necessary the worst way to go. EVERYONE is going to die. AND at least you had an opportunity to say good'bye. The dad that is run over by a truck crossing the street might have just said "Bye, see you later!" before heading to work... Did you ask your mother if she believed in Jesus?

I'm sure she believed in all sorts of stupid stuff. She really believed that some oil that some nun brought back from a monastery in Italy was going to save her. (It didn't) Mom converted to Catholicism to marry my dad, who just wasn't that into it. (Then again, he went through WWII, and frankly, after you liberate a concentration camp, you probably aren't going to be so keen on the idea of a loving God, either.)

Again, the fact that the church uses things like terminal illnesses to dupe people into believing their fairy tales isn't to their credit. they are just taking advantage of people.

But that's what religion is at the end of the day. Taking advantage of people.