Muhammed vs. Jesus

[THE LIGHT]

Do non-Christians go to Heaven?

No

Alright. If that's the case, then this is untrue:

Christianity wants every person to spend eternity with the Lord, islam wants to condemn/kill every person that does not believe as them. Christianity is HOPE. Islam is death.

In the words of Allah ta'ala:

Those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabeans and the Christians and the Magians and the polytheists -- surely Allah will decide between them on the day of Resurrection. Surely Allah is Witness over all things. - 22:17

Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good, they have their reward with their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve. - 2:62​

So much for Christian "hope" for non-Christians...

I hope that you make the choice to accept Jesus as your savior, but that doest mean you will. And me killing you for not making that choice would be the stupidest thing I could do.

 

[Kalam]

We can bring the Word to them, we don't force anyone to accept it. And we don't make anyone go to hell. That is by their own choice.

Good.

There is no compulsion in religion -- the right way is indeed clearly distinct from error. So whoever disbelieves in the devil and believes in Allah, he indeed lays hold on the firmest handle which shall never break. And Allah is Hearing, Knowing. - 2:256​

 

[mattskramer]

Please provide proof he didn't.

Onus Probandi: Also called "The burden of proof". This is not a fallacy in itself, but rather is a general rule of proof - the person making the assertion carries the burden. The person defending against an assertion is not required to prove a negative (and it is questionable whether proving a negative is possible given the rules of logic and the contingency of inductive method).

Prove to me that leprechauns and unicorns don't exist.

So... is this another one of your comparing cheese burgers to hand guns thingies kramer?

No. It is simply a general rule of logic.

 

[mattskramer]

Please provide proof he didn't.

Onus Probandi: Also called "The burden of proof". This is not a fallacy in itself, but rather is a general rule of proof - the person making the assertion carries the burden. The person defending against an assertion is not required to prove a negative (and it is questionable whether proving a negative is possible given the rules of logic and the contingency of inductive method).

Prove to me that leprechauns and unicorns don't exist.

Onus Kissmyassus: Also called "Go fuck yourself, since you think the universe revolves around you."

Now, that is an erroneous ad hominem.

 

[Douger]

Time to kick it up a notch !
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4sFa9EK5lY]YouTube - ISLAM Satanic Submission and Slavery[/ame]

 

[Jack Fate]

Hey hypocrite. When you are calling others "liar," please try not to lie yourself.

Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus created the universe?

You lied to me. I don't deal with liars. Go fuck yourself.

Well, then you don't deal with yourself, do you "liar?"

The other reason why you won't answer is because you're getting hoisted on your own petard, and you know it.

Doesn't matter what your opinion of anything is any more, even me. You lied to me from the start. That makes you a liar and that also makes you a loser. You're a loser. Time to move on.

 

[mattskramer]

You lied to me. I don't deal with liars. Go fuck yourself.

Well, then you don't deal with yourself, do you "liar?"

The other reason why you won't answer is because you're getting hoisted on your own petard, and you know it.

Doesn't matter what your opinion of anything is any more, even me. You lied to me from the start. That makes you a liar and that also makes you a loser. You're a loser. Time to move on.

Have you ever lost a job in your life? If so, does that make you a loser? If you ever lost a round of poker, does that make you a loser? If you told a fib as a young child, does that label you as a liar for the rest of your life? Also, be sure to understand that an error or a falsehood is not the same as a lie.

 

[mattskramer]

If we are going to believe in fairy tales.....

I prefer Superman. He has x-ray vision, is incredibly strong, and he can fly.

Jesus created the universe. I think that's far greater than anything Superman did.

Hey hypocrite. When you are calling others "liar," please try not to lie yourself.

Where in the Bible does it say that Jesus created the universe?

Biblical passages suggest that Jesus is God:

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 10:30-31
I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

John 10:38-39
The Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him.

John 14:9
He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Colossians 1:16
For by him [Jesus] were all things created.

Colossians 2:9
For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

1 Timothy 3:16
God was made manifest in the flesh.

Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Revelation 1:17
Fear not; I am the first and the last.

Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.


According to the Bible, God created the universe. Therefore, Jesus created the universe.

 

[Jack Fate]

Well, then you don't deal with yourself, do you "liar?"

The other reason why you won't answer is because you're getting hoisted on your own petard, and you know it.

Doesn't matter what your opinion of anything is any more, even me. You lied to me from the start. That makes you a liar and that also makes you a loser. You're a loser. Time to move on.

Have you ever lost a job in your life? If so, does that make you a loser? If you ever lost a round of poker, does that make you a loser? If you told a fib as a young child, does that label you as a liar for the rest of your life? Also, be sure to understand that an error or a falsehood is not the same as a lie.

He purposely lied to me. Liars are losers. Thank you for your opinion.

 

[mattskramer]

Doesn't matter what your opinion of anything is any more, even me. You lied to me from the start. That makes you a liar and that also makes you a loser. You're a loser. Time to move on.

Have you ever lost a job in your life? If so, does that make you a loser? If you ever lost a round of poker, does that make you a loser? If you told a fib as a young child, does that label you as a liar for the rest of your life? Also, be sure to understand that an error or a falsehood is not the same as a lie.

He purposely lied to me. Liars are losers. Thank you for your opinion.

Wow. Based on your standards, I hope that you never slip.

 

[Jack Fate]

Have you ever lost a job in your life? If so, does that make you a loser? If you ever lost a round of poker, does that make you a loser? If you told a fib as a young child, does that label you as a liar for the rest of your life? Also, be sure to understand that an error or a falsehood is not the same as a lie.

He purposely lied to me. Liars are losers. Thank you for your opinion.

Wow. Based on your standards, I hope that you never slip.

I do not purposely lie to people here. I make mistakes, but I do not lie on purpose to deceive, which is what he did. I do not tolerate that even once. Why waste my time going any further with a liar? I'm not into banging my head against the wall.

 

[Toro]

Well, then you don't deal with yourself, do you "liar?"

The other reason why you won't answer is because you're getting hoisted on your own petard, and you know it.

ll
Doesn't matter what your opinion of anything is any more, even me. You lied to me from the start. That makes you a liar and that also makes you a loser. You're a loser. Time to move on.

Have you ever lost a job in your life? If so, does that make you a loser? If you ever lost a round of poker, does that make you a loser? If you told a fib as a young child, does that label you as a liar for the rest of your life? Also, be sure to understand that an error or a falsehood is not the same as a lie.

Meh.

He's just using that as an excuse because he knows that Jesus says we should follow the Old Testament, which is full of awful stuff, obliterating his argument. So he ducks and runs.

Don't get the wrong idea - I'm not slamming Christianity or Jesus Christ. I'm slamming the sanctimonious Holier-than-thou sectarian hypocrites like Jack Fate who wish to divide by noting the flaws of other religions while being apologists for the bad stuff in the Bible. You can't hold different standards for different religions when its convenient to whitewash the bad stuff in Christianity. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you're going to let wholesale slaughter slide in the Bible as not being evident of Christianity, then you should do so for all religions, Islam included. Otherwise, its just xenophobic hypocrisy.

 

[Jack Fate]

ll
Doesn't matter what your opinion of anything is any more, even me. You lied to me from the start. That makes you a liar and that also makes you a loser. You're a loser. Time to move on.

Have you ever lost a job in your life? If so, does that make you a loser? If you ever lost a round of poker, does that make you a loser? If you told a fib as a young child, does that label you as a liar for the rest of your life? Also, be sure to understand that an error or a falsehood is not the same as a lie.

Meh.

He's just using that as an excuse because he knows that Jesus says we should follow the Old Testament, which is full of awful stuff, obliterating his argument. So he ducks and runs.

Don't get the wrong idea - I'm not slamming Christianity or Jesus Christ. I'm slamming the sanctimonious Holier-than-thou sectarian hypocrites like Jack Fate who wish to divide by noting the flaws of other religions while being apologists for the bad stuff in the Bible. You can't hold different standards for different religions when its convenient to whitewash the bad stuff in Christianity. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you're going to let wholesale slaughter slide in the Bible as not being evident of Christianity, then you should do so for all religions, Islam included. Otherwise, its just xenophobic hypocrisy.

Blah, blah, and more blah. You're not only a liar, but your ranting is beyond ignorance. You know absolutely nothing about Christianity and Islam.

Jesus lived in the OT. The NT did not begin until his resurrection.

 

[mattskramer]

ll
Doesn't matter what your opinion of anything is any more, even me. You lied to me from the start. That makes you a liar and that also makes you a loser. You're a loser. Time to move on.

Have you ever lost a job in your life? If so, does that make you a loser? If you ever lost a round of poker, does that make you a loser? If you told a fib as a young child, does that label you as a liar for the rest of your life? Also, be sure to understand that an error or a falsehood is not the same as a lie.

Meh.

He's just using that as an excuse because he knows that Jesus says we should follow the Old Testament, which is full of awful stuff, obliterating his argument. So he ducks and runs.

Don't get the wrong idea - I'm not slamming Christianity or Jesus Christ. I'm slamming the sanctimonious Holier-than-thou sectarian hypocrites like Jack Fate who wish to divide by noting the flaws of other religions while being apologists for the bad stuff in the Bible. You can't hold different standards for different religions when its convenient to whitewash the bad stuff in Christianity. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you're going to let wholesale slaughter slide in the Bible as not being evident of Christianity, then you should do so for all religions, Islam included. Otherwise, its just xenophobic hypocrisy.

Of course. Name-calling aside, Matthew 5:18 says: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

John 10:35 says that the scripture can't be broken.

In Matthew 5:3 Jesus criticized those who broke God's commandments.

 

[Toro]

Blah, blah, and more blah. You're not only a liar, but your ranting is beyond ignorance. You know absolutely nothing about Christianity and Islam.

Jesus lived in the OT. The NT did not begin until his resurrection.

I know that you are dodging the issue because you know that you're going to get your ass handed to you.

 

[Jack Fate]

Blah, blah, and more blah. You're not only a liar, but your ranting is beyond ignorance. You know absolutely nothing about Christianity and Islam.

Jesus lived in the OT. The NT did not begin until his resurrection.

I know that you are dodging the issue because you know that you're going to get your ass handed to you.

So far all we've seen from you is a pile of rants and raves. Now focus.

Jesus lived in the Old Testament. He was the last prophet. The Old Testament died when he died. The New Testament began when he rose from the dead.

Now it's your turn.

 

[Toro]

Blah, blah, and more blah. You're not only a liar, but your ranting is beyond ignorance. You know absolutely nothing about Christianity and Islam.

Jesus lived in the OT. The NT did not begin until his resurrection.

I know that you are dodging the issue because you know that you're going to get your ass handed to you.

So far all we've seen from you is a pile of rants and raves. Now focus.

Jesus lived in the Old Testament. He was the last prophet. The Old Testament died when he died. The New Testament began when he rose from the dead.

Now it's your turn.

Right. But that's not the issue, is it? Jesus said we should follow the Old Testament. Yet the Old Testament is full of awful stuff. So Muhammed said some bad stuff and Jesus said we should pay heed to the book with awful stuff in it. What's the difference?

You say I take things out of context? You're wrong, but let's pretend you're right. We have a thread with a scholar arguing that the Bible is a more violent book than the Koran because the violence ascribed in the Koran is self-defense. Well, how is quoting single bits of scripture from Muhammed out of context and using that to slam Islam any different?

I say, we let it slide and try to understand the central message of religions rather than nitpicking how awful the other is. There is an awful lot of bad stuff in the Bible just like there's bad stuff in the Koran.

 

[CMike]

Blah, blah, and more blah. You're not only a liar, but your ranting is beyond ignorance. You know absolutely nothing about Christianity and Islam.

Jesus lived in the OT. The NT did not begin until his resurrection.

I know that you are dodging the issue because you know that you're going to get your ass handed to you.

So far all we've seen from you is a pile of rants and raves. Now focus.

Jesus lived in the Old Testament. He was the last prophet. The Old Testament died when he died. The New Testament began when he rose from the dead.

Now it's your turn.

Utterly rediculous. You either believe in G-D or jesus, you can not believe in both.

From Deutronomy 4

2. Do not add to the word which I command you, nor diminish from it, to observe the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

And once again...

Hear O Israel, the L-rd is our G-D, the L-ord is ONE (Deut)
I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from Me there is no God. ...so that from the rising of the Sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:5-6)

...I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me. (Isaiah, 46:9)

... so that all the peoples of the Earth may know that the Lord is God and that there is no other. (1 Kings, 8:60)

Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the Earth; for I am God, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:22)

This is what the Lord says…"Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other God." (Isaiah, 45:14)

...The Lord our God, the Lord is one. (Deuteronomy, 6:4)


... Is there any god besides Me? No, there is no other strong one; I know not one. (Isaiah, 44:8)

This is what the Lord says—I am the first and I am the last; apart from Me there is no god. (Isaiah, 44:6)

Who has done this and carried it through, calling forth the generations from the beginning? I, the Lord—with the first of them and with the last—I am He." (Isaiah, 41:4)




The fact that jesus thought that he can challenge G-D is beyond repulsive in my opinion.

There is one and only one G-D, and that G-D is G-D.

 

[Jack Fate]

I know that you are dodging the issue because you know that you're going to get your ass handed to you.

So far all we've seen from you is a pile of rants and raves. Now focus.

Jesus lived in the Old Testament. He was the last prophet. The Old Testament died when he died. The New Testament began when he rose from the dead.

Now it's your turn.

Right. But that's not the issue, is it? Jesus said we should follow the Old Testament. Yet the Old Testament is full of awful stuff. So Muhammed said some bad stuff and Jesus said we should pay heed to the book with awful stuff in it. What's the difference?

You say I take things out of context? You're wrong, but let's pretend you're right. We have a thread with a scholar arguing that the Bible is a more violent book than the Koran because the violence ascribed in the Koran is self-defense. Well, how is quoting single bits of scripture from Muhammed out of context and using that to slam Islam any different?

I say, we let it slide and try to understand the central message of religions rather than nitpicking how awful the other is. There is an awful lot of bad stuff in the Bible just like there's bad stuff in the Koran.

I think you're very confused, although in your mind you're right on. Yes, there is bad stuff in the bible. I don't know anyone who is advocating that we copy the bad stuff in the bible. Do you? I didn't think so.

We do, however, have an awful lot of muslims who are going around the world murdering people in the name of Allah.

You don't see it. I understand that. You want to think Islam is comparable to Christianity. Fine, go ahead. That's your right. But don't expect sane rational people who understand Christianity and Islam to go along with you.

 

[Toro]

I think you're very confused, although in your mind you're right on. Yes, there is bad stuff in the bible. I don't know anyone who is advocating that we copy the bad stuff in the bible. Do you? I didn't think so.

We do, however, have an awful lot of muslims who are going around the world murdering people in the name of Allah.

You don't see it. I understand that. You want to think Islam is comparable to Christianity. Fine, go ahead. That's your right. But don't expect sane rational people who understand Christianity and Islam to go along with you.

So I will take your silence on the issue of Jesus referring to the Old Testament and Muhammend's quotes that my argument is correct. Sweet concession, Sis!

There have been horrendous crimes in the name of Christianity throughout history, just like there are horrendous crimes in the name of Islam today. You can't whitewash the crimes in the name of Christianity as being indicative of Christianity while condemning the crimes of Muslims as being indicative of Islam. At least you can't without being a hypocrite.

This isn't about Christianity v Islam. This is about modernization v barbarism. This is about history, culture and the advancements of societies.