Multiculturalism and Sharia

[NYcarbineer]

So a couple weeks ago the big rightwing push was to zealously defend the right of Christians to use their religion to legally discriminate against gays;

this week it's the same crowd zealously attacking the idea of Muslims using their religion to effectively do the same sort of thing.

First, let's try to avoid your usual sophistry and consider that none of the folks you're attempting to smear suggested killing those with a different sexual orientation.

The group being spotlighted does just that.

One might consider that as being a significant difference between the groups you are attempting to conflate.

You've claimed that we are in danger of moving towards Sharia Law in this country. Slowly, stealthily,

towards a system of law that would condemn homosexuals to death...

Well, think a moment. Wouldn't the first slow steps in that process be the preservation and/or implementation of social and civil discriminations against homosexuals?

Like keeping them from obtaiing the right of civil marriage? Like obtaining the right for Christians to discriminate against them on religious grounds?

Those are the first steps down that road...

Who wants to take those steps? Mostly liberals...

...or mostly conservatives?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

The divine right of kings was a Christian belief. Based on the Bible.

Are you saying the Christians were wrong in that belief?

What has that to do with preserving The Best of history: cultural identity, philosophy, morals, legal system, etc.?

You have a hard-on over this 'divine right of kings' business, looking to leverage it in order to disparage an aspect of the traditions of The West, then to build upon that in order to invalidate more of the collection of traditions, having negated one of them...

Not in any exchange with me, mine good colleague... I have no problem in calling that what it is, and heading that off at the pass, before you can get any traction with it...

The 'divine right of kings' element of Western cultural traditions is NOT one of 'The Best' aspects of our own history that I called-for to be preserved, but one of 'The Worst'; something that can safely be jettisoned...

Besides, it wasn't a Christian Belief - it was cynical Secular Spin-Doctoring on Christian texts in order to conjure-up a juicy rationalization that the ignorant peasantry and burghers could not argue-down, to prop-up various kings and other nobility...

Something that 'we' (The West) concluded was 'bullshit' some decades and centuries ago, and decided to leave behind...

But it was OUR (The West) choice, and not that of some Neanderthal alien belief-sytem-political-structure hybrid...

Ah, so you are the one who gets to decide which is a Christian belief and which isn't? lol, you're an ass.

Give us a list of the uniquely Christian principles in our system of government.

i get real tired of Atheists who claim Christianity had nothing to do with the founding of our country....

FYI there wasn't a stinking Atheist founder to be seen.....ALL of the founders believed in God.....even the Deists....

and you can claim all you want that the Enlightenment is the basis of the Constitution but it was only a part......counting references the founders made Christianity played a bigger part....

A study, done by Lutz and Hyneman, supports this case. They examined the references cited by our Founding Fathers from 1760 to 1805. Of 3,154 items cited by the Founding Fathers, 34% came from the Bible. Nine percent were from classical authors like Cicero, Plutarch, Livy, and Plato. Thus, 1,356 citations came from the Bible and the classics, making up forty-three percent of the citations. Eighteen percent were from Whig writers, 11% derived from English common law, and 18% from so-called Enlightenment thinkers. Significantly, Montesquieu, the author of The Spirit of the Laws, was most frequently cited, three times as often as John Locke.

The Truths They Held: The Christian and Natural Law Background to the Ameri

 

[PaintMyHouse]

What has that to do with preserving The Best of history: cultural identity, philosophy, morals, legal system, etc.?

You have a hard-on over this 'divine right of kings' business, looking to leverage it in order to disparage an aspect of the traditions of The West, then to build upon that in order to invalidate more of the collection of traditions, having negated one of them...

Not in any exchange with me, mine good colleague... I have no problem in calling that what it is, and heading that off at the pass, before you can get any traction with it...

The 'divine right of kings' element of Western cultural traditions is NOT one of 'The Best' aspects of our own history that I called-for to be preserved, but one of 'The Worst'; something that can safely be jettisoned...

Besides, it wasn't a Christian Belief - it was cynical Secular Spin-Doctoring on Christian texts in order to conjure-up a juicy rationalization that the ignorant peasantry and burghers could not argue-down, to prop-up various kings and other nobility...

Something that 'we' (The West) concluded was 'bullshit' some decades and centuries ago, and decided to leave behind...

But it was OUR (The West) choice, and not that of some Neanderthal alien belief-sytem-political-structure hybrid...

Ah, so you are the one who gets to decide which is a Christian belief and which isn't? lol, you're an ass.

Give us a list of the uniquely Christian principles in our system of government.

i get real tired of Atheists who claim Christianity had nothing to do with the founding of our country....

FYI there wasn't a stinking Atheist founder to be seen.....ALL of the founders believed in God.....even the Deists....

and you can claim all you want that the Enlightenment is the basis of the Constitution but it was only a part......counting references the founders made Christianity played a bigger part....

A study, done by Lutz and Hyneman, supports this case. They examined the references cited by our Founding Fathers from 1760 to 1805. Of 3,154 items cited by the Founding Fathers, 34% came from the Bible. Nine percent were from classical authors like Cicero, Plutarch, Livy, and Plato. Thus, 1,356 citations came from the Bible and the classics, making up forty-three percent of the citations. Eighteen percent were from Whig writers, 11% derived from English common law, and 18% from so-called Enlightenment thinkers. Significantly, Montesquieu, the author of The Spirit of the Laws, was most frequently cited, three times as often as John Locke.

The Truths They Held: The Christian and Natural Law Background to the Ameri

For a Christian nation, it's odd how how they never mentioned God? Oh wait, it isn't after all. Try to deal with that just as we deal with the fact that they were moatly Christian men, which still doesn't mean you can pass Christian laws.

 

[NYcarbineer]

What has that to do with preserving The Best of history: cultural identity, philosophy, morals, legal system, etc.?

You have a hard-on over this 'divine right of kings' business, looking to leverage it in order to disparage an aspect of the traditions of The West, then to build upon that in order to invalidate more of the collection of traditions, having negated one of them...

Not in any exchange with me, mine good colleague... I have no problem in calling that what it is, and heading that off at the pass, before you can get any traction with it...

The 'divine right of kings' element of Western cultural traditions is NOT one of 'The Best' aspects of our own history that I called-for to be preserved, but one of 'The Worst'; something that can safely be jettisoned...

Besides, it wasn't a Christian Belief - it was cynical Secular Spin-Doctoring on Christian texts in order to conjure-up a juicy rationalization that the ignorant peasantry and burghers could not argue-down, to prop-up various kings and other nobility...

Something that 'we' (The West) concluded was 'bullshit' some decades and centuries ago, and decided to leave behind...

But it was OUR (The West) choice, and not that of some Neanderthal alien belief-sytem-political-structure hybrid...

Ah, so you are the one who gets to decide which is a Christian belief and which isn't? lol, you're an ass.

Give us a list of the uniquely Christian principles in our system of government.

i get real tired of Atheists who claim Christianity had nothing to do with the founding of our country....

FYI there wasn't a stinking Atheist founder to be seen.....ALL of the founders believed in God.....even the Deists....

and you can claim all you want that the Enlightenment is the basis of the Constitution but it was only a part......counting references the founders made Christianity played a bigger part....

A study, done by Lutz and Hyneman, supports this case. They examined the references cited by our Founding Fathers from 1760 to 1805. Of 3,154 items cited by the Founding Fathers, 34% came from the Bible. Nine percent were from classical authors like Cicero, Plutarch, Livy, and Plato. Thus, 1,356 citations came from the Bible and the classics, making up forty-three percent of the citations. Eighteen percent were from Whig writers, 11% derived from English common law, and 18% from so-called Enlightenment thinkers. Significantly, Montesquieu, the author of The Spirit of the Laws, was most frequently cited, three times as often as John Locke.

The Truths They Held: The Christian and Natural Law Background to the Ameri

You didn't answer the question. What is uniquely Christian about our system of government?

Why don't you people just admit you want a Christian theocracy? You're only a stone's throw away from it with what you're already willing to admit.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Ah, so you are the one who gets to decide which is a Christian belief and which isn't? lol, you're an ass.

Give us a list of the uniquely Christian principles in our system of government.

i get real tired of Atheists who claim Christianity had nothing to do with the founding of our country....

FYI there wasn't a stinking Atheist founder to be seen.....ALL of the founders believed in God.....even the Deists....

and you can claim all you want that the Enlightenment is the basis of the Constitution but it was only a part......counting references the founders made Christianity played a bigger part....

A study, done by Lutz and Hyneman, supports this case. They examined the references cited by our Founding Fathers from 1760 to 1805. Of 3,154 items cited by the Founding Fathers, 34% came from the Bible. Nine percent were from classical authors like Cicero, Plutarch, Livy, and Plato. Thus, 1,356 citations came from the Bible and the classics, making up forty-three percent of the citations. Eighteen percent were from Whig writers, 11% derived from English common law, and 18% from so-called Enlightenment thinkers. Significantly, Montesquieu, the author of The Spirit of the Laws, was most frequently cited, three times as often as John Locke.

The Truths They Held: The Christian and Natural Law Background to the Ameri

For a Christian nation, it's odd how how they never mentioned God? Oh wait, it isn't after all. Try to deal with that just as we deal with the fact that they were moatly Christian men, which still doesn't mean you can pass Christian laws.

Of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence, all of them were Christians:

Episcopalian/Anglican - 28
Congregationalist - 11
Presbyterian - 12
Quaker - 2
Unitarian/Universalist - 2
Catholic - 1

TOTAL - 56 - 100%

But you think these Christians created a secular document with the imposition of gay marriage/wedding cakes in mind....?

 

[KNB]

If Christians founded a Christian nation based on Christian laws, then why do the very first words of the First Amendment to the US Constitution (the Bill of Rights) expressly forbid any religious law from dictating American society?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

i get real tired of Atheists who claim Christianity had nothing to do with the founding of our country....

FYI there wasn't a stinking Atheist founder to be seen.....ALL of the founders believed in God.....even the Deists....

and you can claim all you want that the Enlightenment is the basis of the Constitution but it was only a part......counting references the founders made Christianity played a bigger part....

For a Christian nation, it's odd how how they never mentioned God? Oh wait, it isn't after all. Try to deal with that just as we deal with the fact that they were moatly Christian men, which still doesn't mean you can pass Christian laws.

Of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence, all of them were Christians:

Episcopalian/Anglican - 28
Congregationalist - 11
Presbyterian - 12
Quaker - 2
Unitarian/Universalist - 2
Catholic - 1

TOTAL - 56 - 100%

But you think these Christians created a secular document with the imposition of gay marriage/wedding cakes in mind....?

They created a Secular Government. Now why is that?

 

[NYcarbineer]

During the time this country was settled, Europe was in one religious war or another almost constantly, in 16th and 17th centuries -

and these were wars involving one group of Christians fighting another group of Christians.

It is nonsensical therefore to claim that the settling of this country by 'Christians' translates into one unified constant set of beliefs called 'Christianity', and that somehow makes us a '
Christian' nation.

The real reason we have a secular nation with separation of church and state is because the fouinders were keenly familiar with the phenomenon of Christians here and Christians there doing horrible things to each other.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Ah, so you are the one who gets to decide which is a Christian belief and which isn't? lol, you're an ass.

Give us a list of the uniquely Christian principles in our system of government.

i get real tired of Atheists who claim Christianity had nothing to do with the founding of our country....

FYI there wasn't a stinking Atheist founder to be seen.....ALL of the founders believed in God.....even the Deists....

and you can claim all you want that the Enlightenment is the basis of the Constitution but it was only a part......counting references the founders made Christianity played a bigger part....

A study, done by Lutz and Hyneman, supports this case. They examined the references cited by our Founding Fathers from 1760 to 1805. Of 3,154 items cited by the Founding Fathers, 34% came from the Bible. Nine percent were from classical authors like Cicero, Plutarch, Livy, and Plato. Thus, 1,356 citations came from the Bible and the classics, making up forty-three percent of the citations. Eighteen percent were from Whig writers, 11% derived from English common law, and 18% from so-called Enlightenment thinkers. Significantly, Montesquieu, the author of The Spirit of the Laws, was most frequently cited, three times as often as John Locke.

The Truths They Held: The Christian and Natural Law Background to the Ameri

You didn't answer the question. What is uniquely Christian about our system of government?

Why don't you people just admit you want a Christian theocracy? You're only a stone's throw away from it with what you're already willing to admit.

instead of the Christianity being part of the Consitution......you could say the Constitution is part of Christianity.....

Christians are full of tolerance.......but when you try to force acceptance that is another matter entirely....

 

[PoliticalChic]

Your original criterion was that of laws that would violate the 'law of the land'.

If Christians want the special privilege of being able to violate the 'law of the land' via the right to discriminate,

how does that not fit the criterion?

Note the list for sharia in post #255


You can run, but you can't hide.

Maybe you should just admit that you agreed with Jan Brewer's veto of the Arizona law.

Y'know.....I've tried valiantly not to respond to the Arizona situation....and have never posted on the issue.
It is only Liberals who love the issue, as righteous indignation is like catnip for Libs.





But, as this is your continual harping.....here is my position:

Any business open to the public must serve all of the public that comes through the door.

This is not a theocracy and therefore outside of a health violation or public nuisance, something that interferes with one's conducting business....every customer must be served.

So...a bakery must bake cakes for any...and a Muslim cabdriver must take every pedestrian....even a blind man with a dog.




Let me say, also, that I am in the minority in family debates on the issue....and that includes one lawyer on the other side of this question.



I've answered you to be done with that same question, and because it is consistent with my position vis-a-vis sharia and the Constitution.


Enough.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

.....you could say the Constitution is part of Christianity.....

Ah, no, you couldn't, unless you were a damn fool. The Constitution forms a Secular Government. There's no voting, no rights, no tolerance for other faiths, no election of who will lead the flock in Christianity. There is God, one God, above all others and thou shall serve no other unless thou likes it very, very warm.

 

[Kondor3]

The divine right of kings was a Christian belief. Based on the Bible.

Are you saying the Christians were wrong in that belief?

What has that to do with preserving The Best of history: cultural identity, philosophy, morals, legal system, etc.?

You have a hard-on over this 'divine right of kings' business, looking to leverage it in order to disparage an aspect of the traditions of The West, then to build upon that in order to invalidate more of the collection of traditions, having negated one of them...

Not in any exchange with me, mine good colleague... I have no problem in calling that what it is, and heading that off at the pass, before you can get any traction with it...

The 'divine right of kings' element of Western cultural traditions is NOT one of 'The Best' aspects of our own history that I called-for to be preserved, but one of 'The Worst'; something that can safely be jettisoned...

Besides, it wasn't a Christian Belief - it was cynical Secular Spin-Doctoring on Christian texts in order to conjure-up a juicy rationalization that the ignorant peasantry and burghers could not argue-down, to prop-up various kings and other nobility...

Something that 'we' (The West) concluded was 'bullshit' some decades and centuries ago, and decided to leave behind...

But it was OUR (The West) choice, and not that of some Neanderthal alien belief-sytem-political-structure hybrid...

Ah, so you are the one who gets to decide which is a Christian belief and which isn't?...

Never thought any such thing.

Never claimed any such thing.

Never even so much as implied any such thing.

Stop trying to put words into peoples' mouths iin order to suit your agenda.

...lol, you're an ass...

Quite possiblly.

But I am comforted by the idea that you beat me to that status by trying (on multiple occasions) to put words into peoples' mouths, and failing, and looking the worse for wear, after being called out for doing so.

I am content.

Give us a list of the uniquely Christian principles in our system of government.

Whatever for?

Under circumstance wherein people are not trying to put words into my mouth...

I would say that the strong influence of Christian (Canon) Law [a hybrid of Roman, Greek, Frankish, Germanic, Salic, plus Church doctrine and philosophy, etc.] may be discerned in all of the long-standing Legal Systems developed by The West.

At the most, I would say that such influences puts the early Western (Christian) spin or flavor on our legal principles.

I would not say that there are uniquely Christian principals easily discernible in our corpus juris; merely the Christian (Western) spin or flavor on such priniciples.

All attempts on your end to put Contradictory Words into my mouth for your own purposes notwithstanding.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Ah, so you are the one who gets to decide which is a Christian belief and which isn't? lol, you're an ass.

Give us a list of the uniquely Christian principles in our system of government.

i get real tired of Atheists who claim Christianity had nothing to do with the founding of our country....

FYI there wasn't a stinking Atheist founder to be seen.....ALL of the founders believed in God.....even the Deists....

and you can claim all you want that the Enlightenment is the basis of the Constitution but it was only a part......counting references the founders made Christianity played a bigger part....

A study, done by Lutz and Hyneman, supports this case. They examined the references cited by our Founding Fathers from 1760 to 1805. Of 3,154 items cited by the Founding Fathers, 34% came from the Bible. Nine percent were from classical authors like Cicero, Plutarch, Livy, and Plato. Thus, 1,356 citations came from the Bible and the classics, making up forty-three percent of the citations. Eighteen percent were from Whig writers, 11% derived from English common law, and 18% from so-called Enlightenment thinkers. Significantly, Montesquieu, the author of The Spirit of the Laws, was most frequently cited, three times as often as John Locke.

The Truths They Held: The Christian and Natural Law Background to the Ameri

For a Christian nation, it's odd how how they never mentioned God? Oh wait, it isn't after all. Try to deal with that just as we deal with the fact that they were moatly Christian men, which still doesn't mean you can pass Christian laws.

Jesus Christ is referred to in the Constitution.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Ah, so you are the one who gets to decide which is a Christian belief and which isn't? lol, you're an ass.

Give us a list of the uniquely Christian principles in our system of government.

i get real tired of Atheists who claim Christianity had nothing to do with the founding of our country....

FYI there wasn't a stinking Atheist founder to be seen.....ALL of the founders believed in God.....even the Deists....

and you can claim all you want that the Enlightenment is the basis of the Constitution but it was only a part......counting references the founders made Christianity played a bigger part....

A study, done by Lutz and Hyneman, supports this case. They examined the references cited by our Founding Fathers from 1760 to 1805. Of 3,154 items cited by the Founding Fathers, 34% came from the Bible. Nine percent were from classical authors like Cicero, Plutarch, Livy, and Plato. Thus, 1,356 citations came from the Bible and the classics, making up forty-three percent of the citations. Eighteen percent were from Whig writers, 11% derived from English common law, and 18% from so-called Enlightenment thinkers. Significantly, Montesquieu, the author of The Spirit of the Laws, was most frequently cited, three times as often as John Locke.

The Truths They Held: The Christian and Natural Law Background to the Ameri

You didn't answer the question. What is uniquely Christian about our system of government?

Why don't you people just admit you want a Christian theocracy? You're only a stone's throw away from it with what you're already willing to admit.

Judeo-Christian.

The basis of the nation is from the above doctrines.
It would take an uneducated dolt not to know that.


Raise your paw.


But no one is calling for a theocracy.

 

[Kondor3]

During the time this country was settled, Europe was in one religious war or another almost constantly, in 16th and 17th centuries -

and these were wars involving one group of Christians fighting another group of Christians.

It is nonsensical therefore to claim that the settling of this country by 'Christians' translates into one unified constant set of beliefs called 'Christianity', and that somehow makes us a '
Christian' nation.

The real reason we have a secular nation with separation of church and state is because the fouinders were keenly familiar with the phenomenon of Christians here and Christians there doing horrible things to each other.

The United States is, indeed, a secularized Christian Nation...

De factor, if not de jure...

This from someone who fully supports the principle of Separation of Church and State...

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Jesus Christ is referred to in the Constitution.

No little one, He isn't.

 

[PoliticalChic]

If Christians founded a Christian nation based on Christian laws, then why do the very first words of the First Amendment to the US Constitution (the Bill of Rights) expressly forbid any religious law from dictating American society?

It doesn't say that, nor does it mean what you say it does.

You remain the poster child for 'government schooling.'

 

[PoliticalChic]

Jesus Christ is referred to in the Constitution.

No little one, He isn't.

Shall we wager?

 

[Contumacious]

Jesus Christ is referred to in the Constitution.

No little one, He isn't.

You are wrong sir.

Back then he used the handle "Thomas Jefferson".

.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Jesus Christ is referred to in the Constitution.

No little one, He isn't.

Shall we wager?

Anything you got...