Muslim flight attendant sues over serving alcohol on flights

[ogibillm]

no. you really don't.
and it's sad that you think you do because it's incredibly clear that you don't.

let me help you out - a business can't typically discriminate against someone because of race, religion, sex, and occasionally sexual orientation.

so refusing to sell someone a product that you sell to others because you don't like their religion or race is illegal.

but a business also has to make reasonable religious accommodations for its employees. 'reasonable' being the operative word, obviously you can't hire a bartender and then accommodate them when they say they can't serve alcohol. but reasonable might mean giving someone the ability to take their breaks at certain times to pray.

do you understand?

Serving alcohol is part of the job description of a flight attendant.

but you could say it's neither the largest part or the most important. so is it possible that another attendant could have handed out the alcoholic drinks, or that some other reasonable accommodation could have been made? that's all that matters. if they couldn't accomodate her, that's fine, she loses, end of story.

You could say the fags could have gone to another bakery and purchased a cake.

could say that, but it doesn't matter. the bakers broke the law. there could have been a man right outside the bakery handing out free cakes to everyone. wouldn't change that the bakers broke the law by refusing to sell a product they offered to someone based on sexual orientation

It was based on the baker's RELIGIOUS BELIEFS that homosexuality is wrong. The flight attendant based the decision on RELIGIOUS BELIEFS that alcohol is wrong.

Both were decisions based on religious beliefs.

ok. doesn't matter, but ok.

do you think the flight attendant should be allowed to not serve alcohol?

 

[martybegan]

Being in a 15 foot diameter tube 7 miles in the air, unable to get any other service, and having to drive a few miles to get a cake you don't need for weeks or months is not comparable.

I'm sorry not getting a drink on a plane would cause you distress.

It would cause the airline to provide maybe another flight attendant, or have flight attendants try to juggle position when someone wanted booze. On smaller planes (of which this seems to be an airline that flies them) there may only be one fight attendant (I have been on a small CRJ with only one).

So basically the whole flight has to go dry because of the flight attendant?

That leads to an unreasonable situation.

and if that is the case she loses. if, however, they could assign her to flights that do not serve alcohol, or to duties that don't require her to hand out alcoholic drinks, or if there is a way to partner her with another attendant that would hand out the drinks and doing so would not cause an unreasonable burden they are obligated to do so

So a Muslim could theoretically be hired by a bar to be a bartender, but if the other bartenders could cover for her, she could be allowed to stand there, and just be ready to serve sodas to people?

no. that's not a reasonable accommodation. a bartender's primary duty is to mix and serve alcoholic drinks.

And one of the primary duties of a flight attendant is to serve things to the passengers, including alcohol.
Reasonable accommodation does not usually involve removal of an entire duty of an employee, which is what the flight attendant in this case is looking for.

 

[LuckyDuck]

During her job interview and training, she would have been taught that serving alcohol to customers was a required.
She did this for two reasons:
1. Get attention to her religious beliefs.
2. An attempt to change the airline policy of serving alcohol to customers when there are Muslim flight attendants.
The company need only show in court that she knew that serving alcohol was going to be a required part of the job, before she actually began her actual flight attendant status and she will lose the suit.

 

[Conservative65]

it's not a question of what religion, its a question of the impact on each party.

She should be allowed to wear a proper headscarf if she wants, even to take a quick 5 minute break to pray. these are not major impacts on the job at hand, and could be accommodated. However, one of the top 5 things a flight attendant does is serve refreshments to passengers, and having to get another one to serve people who want booze (especially on a smaller, single aisle plane) is a hardship on the airline, the passengers, and the other workers.

And if you have to travel several miles to get a cake because bigots won't accomadate you, that creates a hardship as well.

Being in a 15 foot diameter tube 7 miles in the air, unable to get any other service, and having to drive a few miles to get a cake you don't need for weeks or months is not comparable.

I'm sorry not getting a drink on a plane would cause you distress.

It's not about a drink. It's about a double standard.

Christian applying their religious beliefs = people supporting her being sued saying he/she can't do that

Muslim applying her religious beliefs = SAME people as above bending over backwards to protect her ability to do so.

Be glad you don't live in a Baptist country or else there would be no alcohol allowed.

I'm Baptist and disagree. The Bible doesn't say "don't drink". It does talk about alcohol consumption and "indiscriminate, undisciplined" drunkenness. There is a difference.

 

[ogibillm]

I'm sorry not getting a drink on a plane would cause you distress.

It would cause the airline to provide maybe another flight attendant, or have flight attendants try to juggle position when someone wanted booze. On smaller planes (of which this seems to be an airline that flies them) there may only be one fight attendant (I have been on a small CRJ with only one).

So basically the whole flight has to go dry because of the flight attendant?

That leads to an unreasonable situation.

and if that is the case she loses. if, however, they could assign her to flights that do not serve alcohol, or to duties that don't require her to hand out alcoholic drinks, or if there is a way to partner her with another attendant that would hand out the drinks and doing so would not cause an unreasonable burden they are obligated to do so

So a Muslim could theoretically be hired by a bar to be a bartender, but if the other bartenders could cover for her, she could be allowed to stand there, and just be ready to serve sodas to people?

no. that's not a reasonable accommodation. a bartender's primary duty is to mix and serve alcoholic drinks.

And one of the primary duties of a flight attendant is to serve things to the passengers, including alcohol.
Reasonable accommodation does not usually involve removal of an entire duty of an employee, which is what the flight attendant in this case is looking for.

if you're right, she loses.
if there was a reasonable accommodation they could make then she wins.

it's really that simple

 

[martybegan]

It would cause the airline to provide maybe another flight attendant, or have flight attendants try to juggle position when someone wanted booze. On smaller planes (of which this seems to be an airline that flies them) there may only be one fight attendant (I have been on a small CRJ with only one).

So basically the whole flight has to go dry because of the flight attendant?

That leads to an unreasonable situation.

and if that is the case she loses. if, however, they could assign her to flights that do not serve alcohol, or to duties that don't require her to hand out alcoholic drinks, or if there is a way to partner her with another attendant that would hand out the drinks and doing so would not cause an unreasonable burden they are obligated to do so

So a Muslim could theoretically be hired by a bar to be a bartender, but if the other bartenders could cover for her, she could be allowed to stand there, and just be ready to serve sodas to people?

no. that's not a reasonable accommodation. a bartender's primary duty is to mix and serve alcoholic drinks.

And one of the primary duties of a flight attendant is to serve things to the passengers, including alcohol.
Reasonable accommodation does not usually involve removal of an entire duty of an employee, which is what the flight attendant in this case is looking for.

if you're right, she loses.
if there was a reasonable accommodation they could make then she wins.

it's really that simple

You are arguing the application of the law, and not the reasoning behind the positions behind each side.

 

[dblack]

do you think the flight attendant should be allowed not to serve alcoholic drinks?

She was allowed not to serve alcoholic drinks. They just weren't willing to pay her for not doing her job.

 

[Ravi]

It wouldn't be proper to allow one religion special privileges and not the others.

it's not a question of what religion, its a question of the impact on each party.

She should be allowed to wear a proper headscarf if she wants, even to take a quick 5 minute break to pray. these are not major impacts on the job at hand, and could be accommodated. However, one of the top 5 things a flight attendant does is serve refreshments to passengers, and having to get another one to serve people who want booze (especially on a smaller, single aisle plane) is a hardship on the airline, the passengers, and the other workers.

And if you have to travel several miles to get a cake because bigots won't accomadate you, that creates a hardship as well.

Being in a 15 foot diameter tube 7 miles in the air, unable to get any other service, and having to drive a few miles to get a cake you don't need for weeks or months is not comparable.

I'm sorry not getting a drink on a plane would cause you distress.

It's not about a drink. It's about a double standard.

Christian applying their religious beliefs = people supporting her being sued saying he/she can't do that

Muslim applying her religious beliefs = SAME people as above bending over backwards to protect her ability to do so.

Where? As far as I can tell, everyone supports the airline on this thread. I certainly do.

 

[Ravi]

it's not a question of what religion, its a question of the impact on each party.

She should be allowed to wear a proper headscarf if she wants, even to take a quick 5 minute break to pray. these are not major impacts on the job at hand, and could be accommodated. However, one of the top 5 things a flight attendant does is serve refreshments to passengers, and having to get another one to serve people who want booze (especially on a smaller, single aisle plane) is a hardship on the airline, the passengers, and the other workers.

And if you have to travel several miles to get a cake because bigots won't accomadate you, that creates a hardship as well.

Being in a 15 foot diameter tube 7 miles in the air, unable to get any other service, and having to drive a few miles to get a cake you don't need for weeks or months is not comparable.

I'm sorry not getting a drink on a plane would cause you distress.

It would cause the airline to provide maybe another flight attendant, or have flight attendants try to juggle position when someone wanted booze. On smaller planes (of which this seems to be an airline that flies them) there may only be one fight attendant (I have been on a small CRJ with only one).

So basically the whole flight has to go dry because of the flight attendant?

That leads to an unreasonable situation.

and if that is the case she loses. if, however, they could assign her to flights that do not serve alcohol, or to duties that don't require her to hand out alcoholic drinks, or if there is a way to partner her with another attendant that would hand out the drinks and doing so would not cause an unreasonable burden they are obligated to do so

I doubt there any flights that don't serve alcohol.

 

[ogibillm]

and if that is the case she loses. if, however, they could assign her to flights that do not serve alcohol, or to duties that don't require her to hand out alcoholic drinks, or if there is a way to partner her with another attendant that would hand out the drinks and doing so would not cause an unreasonable burden they are obligated to do so

So a Muslim could theoretically be hired by a bar to be a bartender, but if the other bartenders could cover for her, she could be allowed to stand there, and just be ready to serve sodas to people?

no. that's not a reasonable accommodation. a bartender's primary duty is to mix and serve alcoholic drinks.

And one of the primary duties of a flight attendant is to serve things to the passengers, including alcohol.
Reasonable accommodation does not usually involve removal of an entire duty of an employee, which is what the flight attendant in this case is looking for.

if you're right, she loses.
if there was a reasonable accommodation they could make then she wins.

it's really that simple

You are arguing the application of the law, and not the reasoning behind the positions behind each side.

I'm not a flight attendant and i don't know the specifics of the job duties or requirements on various flights. i have no way of knowing if what she was asking was reasonable or not.

i do know that most flights I've been on have two attendants working out of the same cart.
that would seem to make the request reasonable, but maybe that's not how it works for her airline

 

[Tilly]

I'm sorry not getting a drink on a plane would cause you distress.

It would cause the airline to provide maybe another flight attendant, or have flight attendants try to juggle position when someone wanted booze. On smaller planes (of which this seems to be an airline that flies them) there may only be one fight attendant (I have been on a small CRJ with only one).

So basically the whole flight has to go dry because of the flight attendant?

That leads to an unreasonable situation.

and if that is the case she loses. if, however, they could assign her to flights that do not serve alcohol, or to duties that don't require her to hand out alcoholic drinks, or if there is a way to partner her with another attendant that would hand out the drinks and doing so would not cause an unreasonable burden they are obligated to do so

So a Muslim could theoretically be hired by a bar to be a bartender, but if the other bartenders could cover for her, she could be allowed to stand there, and just be ready to serve sodas to people?

no. that's not a reasonable accommodation. a bartender's primary duty is to mix and serve alcoholic drinks.

And one of the primary duties of a flight attendant is to serve things to the passengers, including alcohol.
Reasonable accommodation does not usually involve removal of an entire duty of an employee, which is what the flight attendant in this case is looking for.

This happens a lot in Europe, as you probably know. Muslims take jobs in supermarkets and within weeks state they cannot handle pork or alcohol, they cannot check out pork or alcohol. Cab drivers refuse to take people with seeing eye dogs. Bus drivers stop the bus to pray. Teachers suddenly want to wear the burqa and teach little kids with their faces covered. The list goes on and on and on. They can't all be so stupid that they can't read or comprehend the job description. It is often planned

 

[WillowTree]

it's not a question of what religion, its a question of the impact on each party.

She should be allowed to wear a proper headscarf if she wants, even to take a quick 5 minute break to pray. these are not major impacts on the job at hand, and could be accommodated. However, one of the top 5 things a flight attendant does is serve refreshments to passengers, and having to get another one to serve people who want booze (especially on a smaller, single aisle plane) is a hardship on the airline, the passengers, and the other workers.

And if you have to travel several miles to get a cake because bigots won't accomadate you, that creates a hardship as well.

Being in a 15 foot diameter tube 7 miles in the air, unable to get any other service, and having to drive a few miles to get a cake you don't need for weeks or months is not comparable.

I'm sorry not getting a drink on a plane would cause you distress.

It's not about a drink. It's about a double standard.

Christian applying their religious beliefs = people supporting her being sued saying he/she can't do that

Muslim applying her religious beliefs = SAME people as above bending over backwards to protect her ability to do so.

Where? As far as I can tell, everyone supports the airline on this thread. I certainly do.

Why didn't the airline know Muslims don't allow alcohol?

 

[Conservative65]

And if you have to travel several miles to get a cake because bigots won't accomadate you, that creates a hardship as well.

Being in a 15 foot diameter tube 7 miles in the air, unable to get any other service, and having to drive a few miles to get a cake you don't need for weeks or months is not comparable.

I'm sorry not getting a drink on a plane would cause you distress.

It would cause the airline to provide maybe another flight attendant, or have flight attendants try to juggle position when someone wanted booze. On smaller planes (of which this seems to be an airline that flies them) there may only be one fight attendant (I have been on a small CRJ with only one).

So basically the whole flight has to go dry because of the flight attendant?

That leads to an unreasonable situation.

and if that is the case she loses. if, however, they could assign her to flights that do not serve alcohol, or to duties that don't require her to hand out alcoholic drinks, or if there is a way to partner her with another attendant that would hand out the drinks and doing so would not cause an unreasonable burden they are obligated to do so

I doubt there any flights that don't serve alcohol.

It goes back 30 years but I flew on chartered flights as part of playing college football. I don't recall alcohol on any of them.

 

[Tilly]

So a Muslim could theoretically be hired by a bar to be a bartender, but if the other bartenders could cover for her, she could be allowed to stand there, and just be ready to serve sodas to people?

no. that's not a reasonable accommodation. a bartender's primary duty is to mix and serve alcoholic drinks.

And one of the primary duties of a flight attendant is to serve things to the passengers, including alcohol.
Reasonable accommodation does not usually involve removal of an entire duty of an employee, which is what the flight attendant in this case is looking for.

if you're right, she loses.
if there was a reasonable accommodation they could make then she wins.

it's really that simple

You are arguing the application of the law, and not the reasoning behind the positions behind each side.

I'm not a flight attendant and i don't know the specifics of the job duties or requirements on various flights. i have no way of knowing if what she was asking was reasonable or not.

i do know that most flights I've been on have two attendants working out of the same cart.
that would seem to make the request reasonable, but maybe that's not how it works for her airline

I worked as a flight attendant over summer break at university. Your training involves learning service as well as all the safety stuff and there is no way you could get through the training without knowing MOST of the job is about serving food, beverages and alcohol. I usually worked in a team of at least 6 others and even then it would be difficult to take up the slack for someone who decided they wont do a significant part of their job. It's ridiculous.

 

[Conservative65]

it's not a question of what religion, its a question of the impact on each party.

She should be allowed to wear a proper headscarf if she wants, even to take a quick 5 minute break to pray. these are not major impacts on the job at hand, and could be accommodated. However, one of the top 5 things a flight attendant does is serve refreshments to passengers, and having to get another one to serve people who want booze (especially on a smaller, single aisle plane) is a hardship on the airline, the passengers, and the other workers.

And if you have to travel several miles to get a cake because bigots won't accomadate you, that creates a hardship as well.

Being in a 15 foot diameter tube 7 miles in the air, unable to get any other service, and having to drive a few miles to get a cake you don't need for weeks or months is not comparable.

I'm sorry not getting a drink on a plane would cause you distress.

It's not about a drink. It's about a double standard.

Christian applying their religious beliefs = people supporting her being sued saying he/she can't do that

Muslim applying her religious beliefs = SAME people as above bending over backwards to protect her ability to do so.

Where? As far as I can tell, everyone supports the airline on this thread. I certainly do.

You mean those chastising the CHRISTIAN baker yet refuse to say the MUSLIM flight attendant should be fired? Look around.

 

[jc456]

When it happened to the Gays ppl were like "Im not gay and I dont like cake"

Now they're like HOW DARE SOMEONE REFUSE TO GIVE ME ALCOHOL!!!!!

what?

 

[Ravi]

And if you have to travel several miles to get a cake because bigots won't accomadate you, that creates a hardship as well.

Being in a 15 foot diameter tube 7 miles in the air, unable to get any other service, and having to drive a few miles to get a cake you don't need for weeks or months is not comparable.

I'm sorry not getting a drink on a plane would cause you distress.

It's not about a drink. It's about a double standard.

Christian applying their religious beliefs = people supporting her being sued saying he/she can't do that

Muslim applying her religious beliefs = SAME people as above bending over backwards to protect her ability to do so.

Where? As far as I can tell, everyone supports the airline on this thread. I certainly do.

Why didn't the airline know Muslims don't allow alcohol?

Who says they didn't?

Anyway, it isn't clear. One source I read says it's okay for a Muslim to transport alcohol to a non-Muslim for money. Another said it is okay to do it but you should look for a different job.

She really probably shouldn't even be working for an airline that serves alcohol wether she serves it or not.

 

[Ravi]

And if you have to travel several miles to get a cake because bigots won't accomadate you, that creates a hardship as well.

Being in a 15 foot diameter tube 7 miles in the air, unable to get any other service, and having to drive a few miles to get a cake you don't need for weeks or months is not comparable.

I'm sorry not getting a drink on a plane would cause you distress.

It's not about a drink. It's about a double standard.

Christian applying their religious beliefs = people supporting her being sued saying he/she can't do that

Muslim applying her religious beliefs = SAME people as above bending over backwards to protect her ability to do so.

Where? As far as I can tell, everyone supports the airline on this thread. I certainly do.

You mean those chastising the CHRISTIAN baker yet refuse to say the MUSLIM flight attendant should be fired? Look around.

Yeah, who is doing that?

 

[martybegan]

So a Muslim could theoretically be hired by a bar to be a bartender, but if the other bartenders could cover for her, she could be allowed to stand there, and just be ready to serve sodas to people?

no. that's not a reasonable accommodation. a bartender's primary duty is to mix and serve alcoholic drinks.

And one of the primary duties of a flight attendant is to serve things to the passengers, including alcohol.
Reasonable accommodation does not usually involve removal of an entire duty of an employee, which is what the flight attendant in this case is looking for.

if you're right, she loses.
if there was a reasonable accommodation they could make then she wins.

it's really that simple

You are arguing the application of the law, and not the reasoning behind the positions behind each side.

I'm not a flight attendant and i don't know the specifics of the job duties or requirements on various flights. i have no way of knowing if what she was asking was reasonable or not.

i do know that most flights I've been on have two attendants working out of the same cart.
that would seem to make the request reasonable, but maybe that's not how it works for her airline

yes, one on each side, and the efficiency of service would be reduced if one did not serve booze. A reasonable accommodation is one that does not impact the performance of the employee.

 

[Rambunctious]

Muslim flight attendant sues over serving alcohol on flights

This is why you should not hire them to be a flight attendant....or anything else involving airliners Hotels, Restaurants,Cocktail bars. etc etc etc