Muslims are our friends but Islam is the enemy of Western Civilization?

[Foxfyre]

If you're referring to the Jewish people of Palestine and their social and religious institutions, yes. If you're referring to the system of government in place there, no. In that sense my outlook toward Israel is no different than my outlook toward every other nation in the region.

But why?

How is the Israeli system of government a threat to any other Arab nation? Israel has made no effort to export their philosophy of government anywhere else. Israel has not threatened any other government ever. Israel has allowed peaceful Arab Muslims full citizenship in Israel complete with all social services and has not expelled any Arab or Muslim willing to live under Israeli law.

So you would tolerate the strict fundamental Wahhabism of Saudi Arabia or the crazi nutcases currently controlling Iran or the deviousness of a Syria or a developing republic in Iraq and find Israel unacceptable?

That simply makes no sense to me.

And I put forward this kind of intractable thinking is what is coming to America.

Yes. And that is precisely why I started this thread.

 

[Ropey]

Yet, when asked for evidence of such a society, you can list no place that it works. You will list places hundreds, even thousands of years ago that cannot be verified, but no society that uses Shariah law today that is a "shangrala" or even a place where people would choose to move their families because the culture and lifestyle were conducive to family life.
You have every opportunity to "educate" us about islam. When you list "your vision" of islam, it is easily disproved in many muslim societies.
Are you now telling me that Christians and Jews are not being targeted for murder in muslim societies?

He is looking on one track only. The spiritual track which he uses to pretend there is no real militaristic jihad.

There is and it is happening now. The spiritual jihad that Kalam speaks of is nowhere to be seen in action.

Oh Now he will pop off about how Islam will fight ya yak yak
He has a very narrow non traditional view of Islam .
Im not saying he is wrong, it is just narrow and non traditional .
You may notice how he doesnt support his opinions with links or sources ever wonder why ?

Because he pretends to being above all that. And we are below him for asking proofs.

I put forward that we are no more than intellectual Dhimmi to him. Which is seen by his arrogance and methods.

Kalam presumes to tell me how I should think. He sees nothing wrong with this, so I let him off that.

But it is proof of his pathology which tells him that not only is Islam superior as a belief, it is necessary for all to be below Islam.

Dhimmi who are subservient to those Muslims who submit to the will of Allah.

That's all there is and there 'ain't' no more. It's a simply belief system. Kalam seeks to confuse, obfuscate and deny.

But, there it is....

 

[Ropey]

But why?

How is the Israeli system of government a threat to any other Arab nation? Israel has made no effort to export their philosophy of government anywhere else. Israel has not threatened any other government ever. Israel has allowed peaceful Arab Muslims full citizenship in Israel complete with all social services and has not expelled any Arab or Muslim willing to live under Israeli law.

So you would tolerate the strict fundamental Wahhabism of Saudi Arabia or the crazi nutcases currently controlling Iran or the deviousness of a Syria or a developing republic in Iraq and find Israel unacceptable?

That simply makes no sense to me.

And I put forward this kind of intractable thinking is what is coming to America.

Yes. And that is precisely why I started this thread.

This is why it needs to be fought there. That's why the Crusades went there and that is why the attack will be there again.

That's where it comes from ...

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Islamic obfuscation.

 

[Ropey]

Islamic obfuscation.

This is where a question about a military jihad act is fought by an interjected response to the spiritual (not seemingly existent) jihad.

It is one word in the Quiran, but "many meanings' to Islam interpretation which supposedly has a softer gentler spiritual way than the heavily militaristic one that is occurring now.

The issue with this Islamic obfuscation is that it is a two phased approach. As Islam enters America, it does so with the spiritual method.

When there is enough of a population, then they will move to a different jihad.

I think you know that one. It happens all over the world where the spiritual jihad is told, "thank you, but no."

 

[Kalam]

Here you are in an area that I am really not familiar with. I know Islam is not limited to any particular race, yet I do know that there is and has been racial discrimination in some Arab states that are predominantly Muslim.

This site for instance is certainly not one I would say was objective or without a specific agenda, but is the information re racial discrimination cited--most especially in the video--incorrect?

LEBANON: MUSLIM ‘apartheid’ policies forbid blacks from entering swimming pools Bare Naked Islam's Weblog

Well, I noticed that the discrimination is taking place in places such as pools where members of the two sexes are dressed scantily and nightclubs where I assume alcohol is served, so I'm unsure how the blog is attempting to connect this issue to Islam. I'm sure I don't need to point out that Arab racism and "Islamic racism" (a contradiction in terms) are two different things entirely and can't be conflated. As I said, race is not considered a thing of significance of Islam and a person is judged according to their piety and righteousness:

Abu Huraira reported that Allah's Messenger said, "Verily, Allah does not look to your faces and your wealth but He looks to your heart and to your deeds." - Sahih Muslim

O mankind: Indeed, We created you from a male and a female and we made you nations and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you near Allah is the most righteous of you. - 49:13

Christianity does not advocate any racial discrimination either but there are no doubt Christians who are prejudiced. The U.S. Constitution forbids racial discrimination but the KKK nevertheless exists. Policy and reality are not always the same thing.

I suppose I'm discussing "policy." Obviously, Muslims are not immune to sin.

 

[Kalam]

Christians and Jews should have the exact same rights as Muslims in a Muslim country, is that possible?

Their legal rights are the same and they, like Muslims, may vote for candidates and run for office in representative councils and be appointed to other local and national government positions. It goes without saying that they serve as judges at every level of their respective religious courts.

The Khalifah, his delegated assistant, governers, and provincial mayors are considered "ruling" positions and as such must be filled by Muslims, since Islam is the guiding ideology of the state and no country can expect to last long if it allows itself to be ruled by people who don't believe in its fundamental philosophy.

My concern is what happens if a Muslim woman marries a Christian or Jewish man, would they be stoned to death in this Islamic society?

The marriage wouldn't be performed.

 

[Kalam]

But why?

How is the Israeli system of government a threat to any other Arab nation? Israel has made no effort to export their philosophy of government anywhere else. Israel has not threatened any other government ever. Israel has allowed peaceful Arab Muslims full citizenship in Israel complete with all social services and has not expelled any Arab or Muslim willing to live under Israeli law.

Palestinian issues aside, the only government that can return the Muslim world to prosperity is the khilafah. As far as I'm concerned, all of the regimes that currently rule over us can be categorized either as pseudo-Islamic dictatorships/monarchies with religious institutions in place that serve the interests of the political elite (Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc.), or authoritarian governments that violently oppress their respective populations without even attempting to seek religious justification (Israel, Turkey, loyalist regime in Chechnya, etc.) Neither sort creates an environment conducive to our progress.

So you would tolerate the strict fundamental Wahhabism of Saudi Arabia or the crazi nutcases currently controlling Iran or the deviousness of a Syria or a developing republic in Iraq

Not at all...

 

[Kalam]

Yet, when asked for evidence of such a society, you can list no place that it works.

Not when your criteria for a society that "works" are completely out of any country's reach, no.

 

[Kalam]

From my understanding a true nation built on Shariah law will not tolerate unbelievers within their borders, or am I incorrect?

See my previous posts. The only borders within which disbelievers cannot reside are those of the Hijaz.

 

[Kalam]

The Christians in Pakistan and Egypt aren't bothering the Islamic rule and they are being slaughtered, whats up with that?

"Islamic rule" does not exist in either of those countries.

 

[Kalam]

Oh Now he will pop off about how Islam will fight ya yak yak
He has a very narrow non traditional view of Islam .
Im not saying he is wrong, it is just narrow and non traditional .

According to whose judgment? Yours? Feel free to present any relevant credentials.

You may notice how he doesnt support his opinions with links or sources ever wonder why ?

 

[Kalam]

He is looking on one track only. The spiritual track which he uses to pretend there is no real militaristic jihad.

There is and it is happening now. The spiritual jihad that Kalam speaks of is nowhere to be seen in action.

You're referring to me, yes? Are you unfamiliar with my stance on Israel, Chechnya, etc.?

 

[Ropey]

He is looking on one track only. The spiritual track which he uses to pretend there is no real militaristic jihad.

There is and it is happening now. The spiritual jihad that Kalam speaks of is nowhere to be seen in action.

You're referring to me, yes? Are you unfamiliar with my stance on Israel, Chechnya, etc.?

I did use your name.

So, military might against Israel, Russia and China are proof of a militaristic jihad Kalam?

Any others happening?

Where is the spiritual one. Not Major Nidal Hassan?

 

[Kalam]

Because he pretends to being above all that. And we are below him for asking proofs.

Please feel free to provide me with an example of any instance in which I refused to document a contentious claim after being asked to do so.

I put forward that we are no more than intellectual Dhimmi to him. Which is seen by his arrogance and methods.

I see you've made the assumption that I consider you an intellectual.

As for "dhimmi", I'm not aware of any dhimma currently in effect. If you post something that I recognize as a falsehood, I will attempt to correct you if I can. Go ahead and interpret that as arrogance on my part if it makes you happy.

 

[Kalam]

I did use your name.

So, military might against Israel, Russia and China are proof of a militaristic jihad Kalam?

Any others happening?

Where is the spiritual one. Not Major Nidal Hassan?

Any effort -- minor, major, internal, external, or otherwise -- undertaken for the sake of Islam is "jihad." I don't know what you're asking.

 

[Ropey]

Any effort -- minor, major, internal, external, or otherwise -- undertaken for the sake of Islam is "jihad."

That makes it clear. Disregard any of my previous posts.

You clarified it all. Anything goes for the sake of Islamic jihad...

 

[Kalam]

For some reason, I suspect that I didn't.

 

[Ropey]

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[Kalam]

Anything goes for the sake of Islamic jihad...