Zone1 My open letter to the American Civil Liberties Union.

[Dadoalex]

The American Civil Liberties Union
Mr. Anthony D. Romero
Executive Director
125 Broad Street, 18th Floor
New York, NY 10004-2400

Dear Mr. Romero,

Thank you for mailing me your survey. I have filled it out and returned it to you.

The freedom that is most important to me is intellectual freedom. I want to be able to investigate different points of view, make up my own mind, and express my opinions without fear of legal, economic, or social sanctions.

I welcome challenges to my opinions, and I am confident in my ability to defend them without the name calling, insults, obscene words, and even threats of violence that are sometimes directed at me.

I joined the ACLU many years ago when I thought the ACLU defended intellectual freedom. I left when I discovered that it did not.

When defending intellectual freedom, it is insufficient to prevent government censorship. It must be possible for those with unpopular opinions to be able to express their ideas. Democracy is most effective when the voters have access to divergent points of view.

When the writings of Charles Murray, Jared Taylor, and Professor's Arthur Jensen, Richard Herrnstein, and J. Philippe Rushton were suppressed, and when they were not allowed to speak on college campuses the ACLU did nothing.

If I taught civics at a high school, I would want to be able to assign my class to read Professor Rushton's essay, "Race, Evolution, and Behavior."

Race, Evolution, and Behavior:

I would be fired if I assigned my class to read that essay. The ACLU would not protect me.

My students would not be required to agree with Professor Rushton to get a good grade. I would expect them to respond to his essay in an intelligent, erudite, and civilized manner.

Another fool falls for MAGAT lies.

Enjoy the ignorance.
i'm sure you deserve it.

 

[IM2]

Has FIRE defended the ability of Charles Murray, Jared Taylor, and Professor's Arthur Jensen, Richard Herrnstein, and J. Philippe to express and spread their ideas?

Most of the ideas from these guys have been debunked.

 

[IM2]

And DEI SUCKS. Our VP is proof of that. Literally as well as figuratively.

There is nothing wrong with DEI. Our VP is better than the last one. And so what do you want, a return to hiring unquaifed white males only?

 

[IM2]

Seems that Hector wants schools to teach racist theories.

 

[Hector12]

Most of the ideas from these guys have been debunked.

They have been denounced. They have never been disproved. Anyone with extensive experience with the three major races knows that whet they say is true.

Nowhere is there evidence of intrinsic equality between the races.

 

[Hector12]

Another fool falls for MAGAT lies.

Enjoy the ignorance.
i'm sure you deserve it.

What am I ignorant of?

My hatred for Trump is visceral.

You do not advance what you pretend to believe with stupid insults.

You know that what I say is true.

 

[Hector12]

Unfortunately, Hechtor is a liberal - as he freely admits - and is unlikely to send money to a more conservative organization.

Perhaps he will reconsider.

For years I contributed money to the Moral Majority and the Christian Coalition.

 

[Hector12]

And DEI SUCKS. Our VP is proof of that. Literally as well as figuratively.

DEI is a euphemism for affirmative action, which is a euphemism for lowering standards for blacks and discriminating against whites.

 

[Hector12]

Seems that Hector wants schools to teach racist theories.

What you call "racist theories" I consider the truth about average but durable racial inequality in characteristics necessary for civilization. I am confident that the truth will prevail if it is not suppressed, as it has been since the 1960's.

 

[Hector12]

There is nothing wrong with DEI. Our VP is better than the last one. And so what do you want, a return to hiring unquaifed white males only?

Suggesting that I want a return for hiring unqualified white males only is an example of the straw man fallacy. In the straw man fallacy one distorts the opinion of an opponent in order to make it easy to refute.

I want hiring to be on the basis of qualifications, excellence, and merit.

 

[Dadoalex]

What am I ignorant of?

My hatred for Trump is visceral.

You do not advance what you pretend to believe with stupid insults.

You know that what I say is true.

You know the ACLU went to Skokie to defend the KLAN's right to parade their hate in a densely Jewish community.

You didn't know that?

There ya go MAGAT.
The ACLU doesn't defend your petty causes.
It defends the Constitution.
You didn't know that either?
There ya go MAGAT.

 

[Hector12]

You know the ACLU went to Skokie to defend the KLAN's right to parade their hate in a densely Jewish community.

You didn't know that?

There ya go MAGAT.
The ACLU doesn't defend your petty causes.
It defends the Constitution.
You didn't know that either?
There ya go MAGAT.

The ACLU will defend a politically weak organization like the Ku Klux Klan or the American Nazi Party. It will not defend race realists because race realism presents a scientifically plausible reason for black social pathology - one that runs counter to the assertion that whites are responsible for low average black mental test scores and high rates of black crime and illegitimacy. The ACLU knows that race realism discredits racial reparations, affirmative action, and efforts to treat black criminals more leniently than white criminals.

 

[TheParser]

I discontinued my ACLU membership after I lost sympathy for a lot of immigrants who came here and ripped off Americans. I was previously a typical bleeding heart for certain domestic groups, too -- until I had a lot of unpleasant experiences with them.

In my city, most of the taxicab drivers came from [a certain small country that was once a part of the USSR], and a good proportion of them installed a secret button that they could quietly press to make the meter go faster.

The COVID epidemic (and ride share services) basically destroyed their industry.

Karma? I do not know.

P.S. Yes, some of those immigrant drivers were very honest. I feel sorry for them. I always was a generous tipper.

 

[Coyote]

I remember when I was in college, and the Nazis wanted to march and spew their venom in Skokie - a town with numerous Holocaust survivors.

I understood that they were standing for free speech, but what killed it for me was that a Jewish lawyer was the one who took the case. He was willing to protect the rights of Nazis who would send him right into the ovens. His liberalism was more important than his Judaism.

He is exactly like the Jewish liberals who are joining with the protestors yelling “Get back to Poland!” Despicable.

Lisa, it is called free speech. It means it is, and should be protected in the public sphere, even if you don’t like the message. It also means it applies equally to all.

There ARE ways of countering these without violating their rights. I’ve mentioned the Westboro Baptists numerous times precisely because their message is hate and they were creatively and peacefully countered without violating anyone’s right to free speech.

 

[Kilroy2]

The American Civil Liberties Union
Mr. Anthony D. Romero
Executive Director
125 Broad Street, 18th Floor
New York, NY 10004-2400

Dear Mr. Romero,

Thank you for mailing me your survey. I have filled it out and returned it to you.

The freedom that is most important to me is intellectual freedom. I want to be able to investigate different points of view, make up my own mind, and express my opinions without fear of legal, economic, or social sanctions.

I welcome challenges to my opinions, and I am confident in my ability to defend them without the name calling, insults, obscene words, and even threats of violence that are sometimes directed at me.

I joined the ACLU many years ago when I thought the ACLU defended intellectual freedom. I left when I discovered that it did not.

When defending intellectual freedom, it is insufficient to prevent government censorship. It must be possible for those with unpopular opinions to be able to express their ideas. Democracy is most effective when the voters have access to divergent points of view.

When the writings of Charles Murray, Jared Taylor, and Professor's Arthur Jensen, Richard Herrnstein, and J. Philippe Rushton were suppressed, and when they were not allowed to speak on college campuses the ACLU did nothing.

If I taught civics at a high school, I would want to be able to assign my class to read Professor Rushton's essay, "Race, Evolution, and Behavior."

Race, Evolution, and Behavior:

I would be fired if I assigned my class to read that essay. The ACLU would not protect me.

My students would not be required to agree with Professor Rushton to get a good grade. I would expect them to respond to his essay in an intelligent, erudite, and civilized manner.

Well intellectual freedom is hearing both sides and does require common sense. Yet its clear the writer of this letter uses intellectual freedom as an argument to support his views or opinion.

If he or she was fired then the ACLU would defend you if your civil rights and civil liberties were being violated. First amendment offers this. Yet the federal government has laws that define when there is a problem. Generally when it is hate speech.

It does make sense that the constitution is based on lofty ideas. Yet its how people interpret it that is the problem. Thus hate speech is not considered free speech. The reason is obvious as it incites violence and innocent people can get hurt.

Thus the trap is the formation of an opinion or viewpoints and it becomes ingrain into how one behaves. The answer is to have no opinion. Another way out is to be able to listen to an alternative opinion without forming an opinion.

catch 22 , so sometimes its best not to over think it unless you can understand both sides.

 

[San Souci]

DEI is a euphemism for affirmative action, which is a euphemism for lowering standards for blacks and discriminating against whites.

Yep. Exactly.

 

[San Souci]

There is nothing wrong with DEI. Our VP is better than the last one. And so what do you want, a return to hiring unquaifed white males only?

That giggling idiot? Name one thing that fool has done good? Besides giving Willie Brown a good Lewinsky?

 

[IM2]

That giggling idiot? Name one thing that fool has done good? Besides giving Willie Brown a good Lewinsky?

She's done as much as any other vice president. She does more than giggle but thats the loop right wing propaganda will play for you.

 

[IM2]

Lisa, it is called free speech. It means it is, and should be protected in the public sphere, even if you don’t like the message. It also means it applies equally to all.

There ARE ways of countering these without violating their rights. I’ve mentioned the Westboro Baptists numerous times precisely because their message is hate and they were creatively and peacefully countered without violating anyone’s right to free speech.

Yep. I lived in Topeka and saw these people live. The city had a chance to put forth a referendum to end what they were doing. A proposal was made to create a referendum whereby the people of the city could vote on what Phelps was doing. I was at the city council meeting when it happened. Unfortunately the majorty of the city council were right wingers and the proposal was voted down. There were sick people who had little children picketing with signs saying its G8T 2 H8T.

 

[Coyote]

Yep. I lived in Topeka and saw these people live. The city had a chance to put forth a referendum to end what they were doing. A proposal was made to create a referendum whereby the people of the city could vote on what Phelps was doing. I was at the city council meeting when it happened. Unfortunately the majorty of the city council were right wingers and the proposal was voted down. There were sick people who had little children picketing with signs saying its G8T 2 H8T.

But you are essentially asking for them to vote on whether someone loses a right to free speech because we don’t like the message…that is dangerous imo.