Zone1 My problem with Jesus...turning the other cheek for years has caused me more suffering

[Meriweather]

I like this one. He's talking about dignity.

Yes, and perhaps even reminding us of our equal footing before God?

 

[occupied]

Yes, and perhaps even reminding us of our equal footing before God?

In the real world you often have to fight for an equal footing. Doing this without losing your dignity or taking away anyone else's is the heart of brotherly love. Unfortunately sometimes your brothers need an ass-whuppin'. Lord knows I have had to do it often enough. I didn't relish it, didn't use any more force than necessary and I didn't make them crawl.

 

[zaangalewa]

My problem with Jesus...turning the other cheek for years has caused me more suffering​

Good grieve. Even when I was still a child I understood what Jesus said: If someone beats you on one cheek - then offer him the other cheek = Do not react immediatelly = give the guy a chance to start to think. This act is provoking and not passive. You are sure in this moment you will win this confrontation. "I will do so - but I will also clench my fist", I said. This intuition was not wrong how I found out later.

Background: A Roman had the right to beat someone else (if this one was a not-Roman) - for example when he liked to get a free way. So the first beat was covered from the system of justice for a Roman. But a second beat meant to make someone else to a slave. If he had made a second beat then he had broken the Roman laws - what was a very big problem for him.

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“Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.
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[zaangalewa]

It's that simple, in the headline,

I try to keep the Faith but wonder if God views me as the fool.

"Fool" meant originally to be a "godless fool". That's why it exists a Christian rule never to call someone "fool". So let me say: Comedian or not - god loves you.

 

[Flash]

Turning the other cheek is not about giving away the store or being weak. It is understanding that free will will produce conflicts between humans and you need to be forgiving sometimes.

 

[nomadic5]

Turning the other cheek is not about giving away the store or being weak. It is understanding that free will will produce conflicts between humans and you need to be forgiving sometimes.

this may sound odd, but I sometimes wonder if, even after many years following Jesus, learning about His Church and Scripture, etc, if I still don't fully understand forgiveness. I do understand forgiving people who are repentant. That's a no-brainer. But what about people who just keep doing the same evil over and over with no repentance in sight? I think of pro abort politicians who just keep pushing for more perverse pro-death "laws".. even advocating murdering children AFTER they are born. Sick doesn't begin to say it.

So anyway, I offer sufferings up for these people to repent. That's a Catholic teaching and not even Catholics seem to be doing it much anymore, but I feel it is a powerful prayer. No, we don't see elite dims repenting much, but oh well. We plant the seed and God makes it grow (if He can. if there is no resistance...)

 

[Flash]

this may sound odd, but I sometimes wonder if, even after many years following Jesus, learning about His Church and Scripture, etc, if I still don't fully understand forgiveness. I do understand forgiving people who are repentant. That's a no-brainer. But what about people who just keep doing the same evil over and over with no repentance in sight? I think of pro abort politicians who just keep pushing for more perverse pro-death "laws".. even advocating murdering children AFTER they are born. Sick doesn't begin to say it.

So anyway, I offer sufferings up for these people to repent. That's a Catholic teaching and not even Catholics seem to be doing it much anymore, but I feel it is a powerful prayer. No, we don't see elite dims repenting much, but oh well. We plant the seed and God makes it grow (if He can. if there is no resistance...)

Free will is a sonofabitch.

It produces some pretty bad people. It also produces some bad deeds in normally otherwise good people.

God understand this. He knows that he can't hold people accountable for their sins because nobody would ever live up to His standard.

That is why the path to salvation is not based upon deeds but upon two things; Faith and accepting The Grace of God. The Grace of God is forgiveness of your sins.

As Christians we need to understand that our fellow humans are not perfect and sometimes we need to be forgiving. However, that is not a get out of jail free card for all our adversaries.

I live in a neighborhood with some really good people. However, there is one guy who is pretty much an asshole. "Turning the other cheek" is mostly about understanding that is just the way he is and not letting things that he does that pisses me off to cause undo hate and discord.

 

[Meriweather]

But what about people who just keep doing the same evil over and over with no repentance in sight?

Jesus noted that for those who refuse to listen to you, to others, to the assembly then treat them as you would a tax collector or a pagan. This, of course, does not give anyone permission to treat anyone badly, it simply makes the point that don't feel the need to invite them into your inner circle of loved ones.

 

[BreezeWood]

Ok, whatever that means.

it means you are a sinner,

find a better book the one your on was written by the same as you ... self serving sinners. the losers ticket to the heavens.

 

[JGalt]

it means you are a sinner,

find a better book the one your on was written by the same as you ... self serving sinners. the losers ticket to the heavens.

I came to the conclusion a long time ago that sinning is unavoidable. So how about dealing with your filthy transgressions instead of judging mine, bro?

 

[BreezeWood]

unless this is sarcasm

Jesus said that he who says he is w/o sin is a liar and the truth is not in him (her)

liar, do you have that in writing left by jesus - or another forgery and fallacy of the 4th century c-bible.

 

[nomadic5]

Jesus noted that for those who refuse to listen to you, to others, to the assembly then treat them as you would a tax collector or a pagan. This, of course, does not give anyone permission to treat anyone badly, it simply makes the point that don't feel the need to invite them into your inner circle of loved ones.

no argument

But still... I "forgive" those who have harmed me as well as I can (I think). Jesus may think I should do a better job. .? I don't know.

Sometimes I just send up a little prayer that goes something like this:

Hey, Lord, I don't do any harm to those who have harmed me

isn't that good enough vis a vis forgiveness?

and I get no answer (it seems)

 

[Meriweather]

Sometimes I just send up a little prayer that goes something like this:

Hey, Lord, I don't do any harm to those who have harmed me

isn't that good enough vis a vis forgiveness?

and I get no answer (it seems)

Jesus did mention not only praying, but doing good to those who spitefully use you. It is true that sometimes scripture does not address a specific situation. I once had an employer who tried to do business harm to two people I happened to think well of. He did this harm out of pure spite and malice. Now both these people happened to think well of me, and my employer was using this in his silly games.

The first victim was able to hit back to his advantage, but the second was not in this position. On the other hand, me resigning from my position would benefit her, so I resigned. Resigning did not hurt me, and it helped her. Could I forgive my employer for his malice? I could not, which was one a benefit for me resigning--I was not tempted to strike back at him in sneaky ways. As I could not forgive him for the hurt/harm he tried to cause, I prayed that God take care of the forgiving part until I was strong enough to forgive. I think it is harder to forgive others for the hurt/harm caused to those one loves than it is to forgive personal harm.

On the other hand, that line about "treat them as you would a pagan or tax collector" stays with me in that afterwards I never put myself in a position where I had dealings with him. I did assist some of his other employees for a bit--to make their lives easier. Yes, his business benefited from that, but I don't fool myself: The "good" I did him was strictly an indirect benefit.

Even now I sigh remembering this time. And pray once more for God to forgive as my strength still is not adequate.

 

[surada]

There are some people that just need turmoil in their life to exist. Even when they get out of it for time, they go back to it. It's weird.

Hooked on melodrama.

 

[Cougarbear]

Hooked on melodrama.

Yep! Without it, they seem to not be able to exist. They need the attention and often make up a lot of their melodrama.

 

[nomadic5]

That is why the path to salvation is not based upon deeds but upon two things; Faith and accepting The Grace of God. The Grace of God is forgiveness of your sins.

This sounds heretical (if I may be honest)

If you are saying that all we need to do is have faith and accept God's grace (there are different ways of interpreting that last one)

you are wrong as can be. The Word (which I have read, the whole thing, best version possib le) says we are judged according to our deeds.

Then there is James 2:4 or thereabouts. Then there is Mt 25:31-46 which makes it very clear that not helping the needy lands you in "eternal punishment"

 

[nomadic5]

Yep! Without it, they seem to not be able to exist. They need the attention and often make up a lot of their melodrama.

or maybe they are just young.

Show me the person who was not foolish when young

We are created in God's image and yet, we don't know God very well, even after walking with His Christ many moons

 

[nomadic5]

I came to the conclusion a long time ago that sinning is unavoidable. So how about dealing with your filthy transgressions instead of judging mine, bro?

yeh, one transgression being that he calls people vile names apropos of nada

meaning: he doesn't even know the person and in any case, ad hominem is so unattractive

 

[Flash]

This sounds heretical (if I may be honest)

If you are saying that all we need to do is have faith and accept God's grace (there are different ways of interpreting that last one)

you are wrong as can be. The Word (which I have read, the whole thing, best version possib le) says we are judged according to our deeds.

Then there is James 2:4 or thereabouts. Then there is Mt 25:31-46 which makes it very clear that not helping the needy lands you in "eternal punishment"

If you think the path to Salvation is through deeds then you must be a Catholic or a Mormon. Maybe a Scientologist?

The last thing any human needs is to be held accountable for his/her deeds because of Free Will we all all fail whatever test there is.

The beauty of the Christian religion is the concept of The Grace of God. That was the mission of Jesus. He took the burden of our sins away.

 

[nomadic5]

Jesus did mention not only praying, but doing good to those who spitefully use you. It is true that sometimes scripture does not address a specific situation. I once had an employer who tried to do business harm to two people I happened to think well of. He did this harm out of pure spite and malice. Now both these people happened to think well of me, and my employer was using this in his silly games.

The first victim was able to hit back to his advantage, but the second was not in this position. On the other hand, me resigning from my position would benefit her, so I resigned. Resigning did not hurt me, and it helped her. Could I forgive my employer for his malice? I could not, which was one a benefit for me resigning--I was not tempted to strike back at him in sneaky ways. As I could not forgive him for the hurt/harm he tried to cause, I prayed that God take care of the forgiving part until I was strong enough to forgive. I think it is harder to forgive others for the hurt/harm caused to those one loves than it is to forgive personal harm.

On the other hand, that line about "treat them as you would a pagan or tax collector" stays with me in that afterwards I never put myself in a position where I had dealings with him. I did assist some of his other employees for a bit--to make their lives easier. Yes, his business benefited from that, but I don't fool myself: The "good" I did him was strictly an indirect benefit.

Even now I sigh remembering this time. And pray once more for God to forgive as my strength still is not adequate.

appreciate the humble honesty. I've been around Christians who act like forgiveness is easy and I'm wrong to struggle with it (not said exactly but implied). One person years ago (I think he said this out of hostily toward my Catholic faith...) said that we not only have to forgive, we have to FORGET

Please... The way the human brain is (with its awesome capacity for memory) precludes forgetting, in an absolute way anyhow