My take on Sanders voters.

[JoeB131]

Naw...you’d prefer the government hold all of the power and abuse the people.

Actually, what I prefer is the reciprocal relationship. Yes, they will have the power to do stuff, but we have the power to vote them out.

Nobody voted for Cigna or IBM or GM or Exxon to have the power they have over us.

 

[martybegan]

Doesn't stop you from being a bigot.

Not at all. I'm just more honest than you are.

There are only TWO honest views you can take towards Mormonism.

1) "Joseph Smith was really talking to God! I need to listen to those nice young men and sign up for my own pair of magic underpants!!!"

View attachment 310811
:"Would you like to hear another testament of total horseshit!"

or

2) Joseph Smith was a two-bit con man who found religion was a more effective scam than Gold Divining, and used it to con less smart people out of money and fuck their teenage daughters.

That's it. ONly one of those statements is true.

the third option of pretending you "respect their beliefs" is just... you know, dishonest.

How Aristotelian of you.

Your binary solution to the issue is just as retarded as you are.

 

[JoeB131]

How Aristotelian of you.

Your binary solution to the issue is just as retarded as you are.

Some issues have more than one solution. This one isn't.

Joseph Smith was either talking to God or he wasn't.

 

[martybegan]

How Aristotelian of you.

Your binary solution to the issue is just as retarded as you are.

Some issues have more than one solution. This one isn't.

Joseph Smith was either talking to God or he wasn't.

Either is something you take on faith, or you don't.

It figures a dried up old prune like you can't get that.

 

[JoeB131]

Either is something you take on faith, or you don't.

It figures a dried up old prune like you can't get that.

you shouldn't take ANYTHING on faith. When something is pretty clearly illogical or suspicious, you should treat it like that.

"Hey, guys, God gave me these Gold Plates that only I can see and translate, and they tell a whole story about Hebrews coming to America in Submarines, and God totally wants you to give me all your money and let me marry your teenage daughters, even though I already have 20 other wives. Oh, yeah, and put these magic symbols on your underwear!"

At what point does that NOT get suspicious?

 

[martybegan]

Either is something you take on faith, or you don't.

It figures a dried up old prune like you can't get that.

you shouldn't take ANYTHING on faith. When something is pretty clearly illogical or suspicious, you should treat it like that.

"Hey, guys, God gave me these Gold Plates that only I can see and translate, and they tell a whole story about Hebrews coming to America in Submarines, and God totally wants you to give me all your money and let me marry your teenage daughters, even though I already have 20 other wives. Oh, yeah, and put these magic symbols on your underwear!"

At what point does that NOT get suspicious?

It just shows how small minded you are. You are Thomas, you have to see something to believe it. You have no understanding of anything outside your own self.

 

[hadit]

We all will be if he some how wins.

The markets will crash within days if he beats Trump and there isn't a Republican congress to block him.

So you are okay with the 1% holding the rest of us hostage? "Don't you dare demand better, or we will crash the market rather than pay a little more in taxes we can easily afford!"

A little more? Absolutely hysterical.

 

[JoeB131]

It just shows how small minded you are. You are Thomas, you have to see something to believe it. You have no understanding of anything outside your own self.

If you believe the Bible Fairy Tales, Thomas was with Jesus when he performed all these miracles, and still had his doubts that Jesus came back as a Zombie.

Joseph Smith performed no miracles, and was mysteriously asking his followers for money and their teen daughters....

 

[martybegan]

It just shows how small minded you are. You are Thomas, you have to see something to believe it. You have no understanding of anything outside your own self.

If you believe the Bible Fairy Tales, Thomas was with Jesus when he performed all these miracles, and still had his doubts that Jesus came back as a Zombie.

View attachment 312062

Joseph Smith performed no miracles, and was mysteriously asking his followers for money and their teen daughters....

Same tired religious bigotry from the same tired religious bigot.

 

[hadit]

Lazy:
Want something for nothing or very little effort.

Freeloaders:
Want others to pay for their things.

Uneducated:
Don't understand the ramifications of giving the government the kind of power he proposes.

Economically illiterate:
Don't truly understand the value of a dollar or the gratification that comes from earning it and working your way up the ladder.

Lack life skills and ambition:
Need the government to manage their daily lives.




I know this likely comes off as an insult but that's how I see it. No point in trying to polish a turd least it rub off on me.

If someone proposes to pay more taxes how do you see that as not want to put in effort? Doesn't he propose that that applies to him too? How do you see it as wanting other people to pay when again taxes are levied on everyone?

Uneducated? I speak 3 languages have a degree and live in Europe. Seems to me that the governmental power Bernie proposes stands most Western Nations who have it in good stead. We live longer. Generally, score better in math and science comparisons. And in general, are happier. So what ramifications are you talking about? World Happiness Report - Wikipedia Life Expectancy by Country and in the World (2020) - Worldometer

Economically illiterate? It seems like a strawman to me. Thinking it's a good idea to make college affordable for everyone, or that having a healthy populace is a good idea is not the same as not understanding that you have to work if you want to achieve. The only difference between a European and an American is that I think that a parent's economic situation should have as small as a possible influence on the kids' ability to reach his or her potential. Nor do I think that in a rich society it makes any sense to make healthcare prohibitively expensive for a considerable segment of the population.

The truth is the government is simply better at providing certain things. I don't care if I do something or the government. I care who can do it best. That's not lacking life skill or ambition that's having common sense. The government will be able to arrange better drug prices, provide fire protection law enforcement or education. To give some examples.

Are you a socialist?

I live in a Social Democracy. Like Bernie is suggesting America to be.

What percentage of your paycheck is taken out for tax by the government?

About 50 percent. Now it's not my first time here so I'll immediately ask you this. Do you believe that the money you make is any less gone if you have to use it for things that are provided to me out of those taxes?

To use an example I've heard Bernie use. If you have to spend your money on deductibles, co-pays, and insurance premiums and I cover my health expenses out of the taxes I pay. Isn't the rational way to look at it just comparing which is cheaper and covers the most?

You're forgetting something. You pay that much whether you get sick or not. You pay the same whether you make good health choices or destroy your body through neglect and bad health practices. Under the American system, you can save a lot if you take care of yourself, and you can choose to buy more insurance than you need or less. It's up to you. You, OTOH, don't have that choice.

 

[hadit]

Sanders voters...are creatures who don't have money to pay their University or rent or shit really....they are useless

in other words.....Sanders voters are losers....


losers and morons who will never amount to nothing

Sounds like trump supporters. He won on the low educated.

Low educated =/= loser, unless you're an elitist snob.

 

[forkup]

If someone proposes to pay more taxes how do you see that as not want to put in effort? Doesn't he propose that that applies to him too? How do you see it as wanting other people to pay when again taxes are levied on everyone?

Uneducated? I speak 3 languages have a degree and live in Europe. Seems to me that the governmental power Bernie proposes stands most Western Nations who have it in good stead. We live longer. Generally, score better in math and science comparisons. And in general, are happier. So what ramifications are you talking about? World Happiness Report - Wikipedia Life Expectancy by Country and in the World (2020) - Worldometer

Economically illiterate? It seems like a strawman to me. Thinking it's a good idea to make college affordable for everyone, or that having a healthy populace is a good idea is not the same as not understanding that you have to work if you want to achieve. The only difference between a European and an American is that I think that a parent's economic situation should have as small as a possible influence on the kids' ability to reach his or her potential. Nor do I think that in a rich society it makes any sense to make healthcare prohibitively expensive for a considerable segment of the population.

The truth is the government is simply better at providing certain things. I don't care if I do something or the government. I care who can do it best. That's not lacking life skill or ambition that's having common sense. The government will be able to arrange better drug prices, provide fire protection law enforcement or education. To give some examples.

Are you a socialist?

I live in a Social Democracy. Like Bernie is suggesting America to be.

What percentage of your paycheck is taken out for tax by the government?

About 50 percent. Now it's not my first time here so I'll immediately ask you this. Do you believe that the money you make is any less gone if you have to use it for things that are provided to me out of those taxes?

To use an example I've heard Bernie use. If you have to spend your money on deductibles, co-pays, and insurance premiums and I cover my health expenses out of the taxes I pay. Isn't the rational way to look at it just comparing which is cheaper and covers the most?

You're forgetting something. You pay that much whether you get sick or not. You pay the same whether you make good health choices or destroy your body through neglect and bad health practices. Under the American system, you can save a lot if you take care of yourself, and you can choose to buy more insurance than you need or less. It's up to you. You, OTOH, don't have that choice.

Well, for most people the health problems someone's faces throughout their lives are not a result of choice. Accidents, age, diseases happen whether you want them too or not. In the US bad luck in any of those can leave you without health coverage.

You also seem to miss the point here. You can only compare the cost of healthcare in particular nations by using averages. I'm sure that you can find anecdotes of Americans who live to be a hundred without ever having any health issues as there are Belgians who can say the same. It brings you no closer at all to rationally discuss health care costs though.

Insurance is someone paying upfront to hedge against the chance that something bad will happen in the future. Ours is cheaper and covers more.

 

[forkup]

If someone proposes to pay more taxes how do you see that as not want to put in effort? Doesn't he propose that that applies to him too? How do you see it as wanting other people to pay when again taxes are levied on everyone?

Uneducated? I speak 3 languages have a degree and live in Europe. Seems to me that the governmental power Bernie proposes stands most Western Nations who have it in good stead. We live longer. Generally, score better in math and science comparisons. And in general, are happier. So what ramifications are you talking about? World Happiness Report - Wikipedia Life Expectancy by Country and in the World (2020) - Worldometer

Economically illiterate? It seems like a strawman to me. Thinking it's a good idea to make college affordable for everyone, or that having a healthy populace is a good idea is not the same as not understanding that you have to work if you want to achieve. The only difference between a European and an American is that I think that a parent's economic situation should have as small as a possible influence on the kids' ability to reach his or her potential. Nor do I think that in a rich society it makes any sense to make healthcare prohibitively expensive for a considerable segment of the population.

The truth is the government is simply better at providing certain things. I don't care if I do something or the government. I care who can do it best. That's not lacking life skill or ambition that's having common sense. The government will be able to arrange better drug prices, provide fire protection law enforcement or education. To give some examples.

Are you a socialist?

I live in a Social Democracy. Like Bernie is suggesting America to be.

What percentage of your paycheck is taken out for tax by the government?

About 50 percent. Now it's not my first time here so I'll immediately ask you this. Do you believe that the money you make is any less gone if you have to use it for things that are provided to me out of those taxes?

To use an example I've heard Bernie use. If you have to spend your money on deductibles, co-pays, and insurance premiums and I cover my health expenses out of the taxes I pay. Isn't the rational way to look at it just comparing which is cheaper and covers the most?

You're forgetting something. You pay that much whether you get sick or not. You pay the same whether you make good health choices or destroy your body through neglect and bad health practices. Under the American system, you can save a lot if you take care of yourself, and you can choose to buy more insurance than you need or less. It's up to you. You, OTOH, don't have that choice.

It seems to me that the ability to gamble that you'll stay healthy so you can save a few bucks is a foolish choice to have.

 

[hadit]

Are you a socialist?

I live in a Social Democracy. Like Bernie is suggesting America to be.

What percentage of your paycheck is taken out for tax by the government?

About 50 percent. Now it's not my first time here so I'll immediately ask you this. Do you believe that the money you make is any less gone if you have to use it for things that are provided to me out of those taxes?

To use an example I've heard Bernie use. If you have to spend your money on deductibles, co-pays, and insurance premiums and I cover my health expenses out of the taxes I pay. Isn't the rational way to look at it just comparing which is cheaper and covers the most?

You're forgetting something. You pay that much whether you get sick or not. You pay the same whether you make good health choices or destroy your body through neglect and bad health practices. Under the American system, you can save a lot if you take care of yourself, and you can choose to buy more insurance than you need or less. It's up to you. You, OTOH, don't have that choice.

It seems to me that the ability to gamble that you'll stay healthy so you can save a few bucks is a foolish choice to have.

Of course it's a foolish risk to take, but consider:

Is it really government's job to remove risk from your life?

It's foolish to ride a motorcycle without a helmet. Is it government's job to force one on you?
It's foolish to smoke tobacco. Is it really government's job to deny it to you?
It's foolish to eat too much and exercise too little. Is it really government's job to force it on you?
It's foolish to jump off a tall building, hoping your parachute has time to open and you don't get blown into the side of the building. Is it government's job to stop you?
It's foolish to build and drive increasingly powerful cars, hoping to become the latest land speed record holder. Is it government's job to prevent you from trying?

IOW, once the nanny state starts, it never stops. It always moves in one direction, away from freedom and toward tyranny.

And finally, is it government's job to force you not to be stupid? Sometimes, those considered stupid come up with something worthwhile.

 

[hadit]

Are you a socialist?

I live in a Social Democracy. Like Bernie is suggesting America to be.

What percentage of your paycheck is taken out for tax by the government?

About 50 percent. Now it's not my first time here so I'll immediately ask you this. Do you believe that the money you make is any less gone if you have to use it for things that are provided to me out of those taxes?

To use an example I've heard Bernie use. If you have to spend your money on deductibles, co-pays, and insurance premiums and I cover my health expenses out of the taxes I pay. Isn't the rational way to look at it just comparing which is cheaper and covers the most?

You're forgetting something. You pay that much whether you get sick or not. You pay the same whether you make good health choices or destroy your body through neglect and bad health practices. Under the American system, you can save a lot if you take care of yourself, and you can choose to buy more insurance than you need or less. It's up to you. You, OTOH, don't have that choice.

Well, for most people the health problems someone's faces throughout their lives are not a result of choice. Accidents, age, diseases happen whether you want them too or not. In the US bad luck in any of those can leave you without health coverage.

You also seem to miss the point here. You can only compare the cost of healthcare in particular nations by using averages. I'm sure that you can find anecdotes of Americans who live to be a hundred without ever having any health issues as there are Belgians who can say the same. It brings you no closer at all to rationally discuss health care costs though.

Insurance is someone paying upfront to hedge against the chance that something bad will happen in the future. Ours is cheaper and covers more.

It's not anecdotal to note that you pay a lot more in taxes whether you get sick or not, whereas the American system allows you the freedom to decide what level of coverage you want. If you're young and healthy, you probably don't need to have a policy that covers Viagra and has a $500 annual deductable so you would exercise your choice to get a low premium, high deductable plan to cover catastrophic care. If, OTOH, you're 65 and in poor health, you probably do need more. In America, you have the choice, whereas you do not.

 

[forkup]

I live in a Social Democracy. Like Bernie is suggesting America to be.

What percentage of your paycheck is taken out for tax by the government?

About 50 percent. Now it's not my first time here so I'll immediately ask you this. Do you believe that the money you make is any less gone if you have to use it for things that are provided to me out of those taxes?

To use an example I've heard Bernie use. If you have to spend your money on deductibles, co-pays, and insurance premiums and I cover my health expenses out of the taxes I pay. Isn't the rational way to look at it just comparing which is cheaper and covers the most?

You're forgetting something. You pay that much whether you get sick or not. You pay the same whether you make good health choices or destroy your body through neglect and bad health practices. Under the American system, you can save a lot if you take care of yourself, and you can choose to buy more insurance than you need or less. It's up to you. You, OTOH, don't have that choice.

Well, for most people the health problems someone's faces throughout their lives are not a result of choice. Accidents, age, diseases happen whether you want them too or not. In the US bad luck in any of those can leave you without health coverage.

You also seem to miss the point here. You can only compare the cost of healthcare in particular nations by using averages. I'm sure that you can find anecdotes of Americans who live to be a hundred without ever having any health issues as there are Belgians who can say the same. It brings you no closer at all to rationally discuss health care costs though.

Insurance is someone paying upfront to hedge against the chance that something bad will happen in the future. Ours is cheaper and covers more.

It's not anecdotal to note that you pay a lot more in taxes whether you get sick or not, whereas the American system allows you the freedom to decide what level of coverage you want. If you're young and healthy, you probably don't need to have a policy that covers V iagra and has a $500 annual deductable so you would exercise your choice to get a low premium, high deductable plan to cover catastrophic care. If, OTOH, you're 65 and in poor health, you probably do need more. In America, you have the choice, whereas you do not.

What if my coverage cost less throughout all phases of my life than the cheapest option you can take? That's the point I'm making. You are trying to sell the fact that your insurance can take risk factors into consideration when deciding the cost and that's preferable. While I'm simply saying that regardless of risk factors my cost will be lower at any age.

And yes I pay a lot more in taxes. My taxes though don't just allow for affordable healthcare but many other things that are either more expensive or even unavailable to most Americans.

 

[forkup]

I live in a Social Democracy. Like Bernie is suggesting America to be.

What percentage of your paycheck is taken out for tax by the government?

About 50 percent. Now it's not my first time here so I'll immediately ask you this. Do you believe that the money you make is any less gone if you have to use it for things that are provided to me out of those taxes?

To use an example I've heard Bernie use. If you have to spend your money on deductibles, co-pays, and insurance premiums and I cover my health expenses out of the taxes I pay. Isn't the rational way to look at it just comparing which is cheaper and covers the most?

You're forgetting something. You pay that much whether you get sick or not. You pay the same whether you make good health choices or destroy your body through neglect and bad health practices. Under the American system, you can save a lot if you take care of yourself, and you can choose to buy more insurance than you need or less. It's up to you. You, OTOH, don't have that choice.

It seems to me that the ability to gamble that you'll stay healthy so you can save a few bucks is a foolish choice to have.

Of course it's a foolish risk to take, but consider:

Is it really government's job to remove risk from your life?

It's foolish to ride a motorcycle without a helmet. Is it government's job to force one on you?
It's foolish to smoke tobacco. Is it really government's job to deny it to you?
It's foolish to eat too much and exercise too little. Is it really government's job to force it on you?
It's foolish to jump off a tall building, hoping your parachute has time to open and you don't get blown into the side of the building. Is it government's job to stop you?
It's foolish to build and drive increasingly powerful cars, hoping to become the latest land speed record holder. Is it government's job to prevent you from trying?

IOW, once the nanny state starts, it never stops. It always moves in one direction, away from freedom and toward tyranny.

And finally, is it government's job to force you not to be stupid? Sometimes, those considered stupid come up with something worthwhile.

The government routinely interferes to remove risks to your life. They force you to not drink and drive. Not carry certain weapons. Wear a seatbelt. Etc., Etc. Where you draw the line and what to control is always subjective. I have no problem with the government laying the line of protecting the people against themselves somewhere after forcing them to insure themselves against health problems, considering the fact that nearly all people will be subjected to health problems at someplace in their lives. Spreading that risk amongst as many people as you can, thereby reducing the cost to the individual seems good practice.

Yes, stupidity sometimes leads to something worthwhile. An achievement previously thought impossible, a discovery made. I fail to see though how dying before your time because are you dumb will contribute anything to society.

 

[JoeB131]

Same tired religious bigotry from the same tired religious bigot.

Actually, the point went right over your head.

The thing about the bible stories is you have these "12 losers who can't find a job" hanging with Jesus, (With apologies to Sam Kinneson) and after Jesus performs miracle after miracle, they still doubt. In fact, they are a largely shiftless bunch until AFTER Jesus goes to heaven and they get the Jesus Powers through the Holy Spirit... Peter Denies him, Thomas Doubts him, Judas betrays him. It seems like they are more story creations than real people.

You're forgetting something. You pay that much whether you get sick or not. You pay the same whether you make good health choices or destroy your body through neglect and bad health practices. Under the American system, you can save a lot if you take care of yourself, and you can choose to buy more insurance than you need or less. It's up to you. You, OTOH, don't have that choice.

Look, we got another Medical Calvinist in the House. Hey, remember Jim Fixx? He was the guy who was big into running and healthy living... and he keeled over and died of a heart attack at 52.

Jim Fixx - Wikipedia

 

[hadit]

Same tired religious bigotry from the same tired religious bigot.

Actually, the point went right over your head.

The thing about the bible stories is you have these "12 losers who can't find a job" hanging with Jesus, (With apologies to Sam Kinneson) and after Jesus performs miracle after miracle, they still doubt. In fact, they are a largely shiftless bunch until AFTER Jesus goes to heaven and they get the Jesus Powers through the Holy Spirit... Peter Denies him, Thomas Doubts him, Judas betrays him. It seems like they are more story creations than real people.

You're forgetting something. You pay that much whether you get sick or not. You pay the same whether you make good health choices or destroy your body through neglect and bad health practices. Under the American system, you can save a lot if you take care of yourself, and you can choose to buy more insurance than you need or less. It's up to you. You, OTOH, don't have that choice.

Look, we got another Medical Calvinist in the House. Hey, remember Jim Fixx? He was the guy who was big into running and healthy living... and he keeled over and died of a heart attack at 52.

Jim Fixx - Wikipedia

Are you content then with your government superiors making choices for you because they know better than you what's good for you? Nice anecdote, BTW. Is that really informative?

 

[forkup]

Same tired religious bigotry from the same tired religious bigot.

Actually, the point went right over your head.

The thing about the bible stories is you have these "12 losers who can't find a job" hanging with Jesus, (With apologies to Sam Kinneson) and after Jesus performs miracle after miracle, they still doubt. In fact, they are a largely shiftless bunch until AFTER Jesus goes to heaven and they get the Jesus Powers through the Holy Spirit... Peter Denies him, Thomas Doubts him, Judas betrays him. It seems like they are more story creations than real people.

You're forgetting something. You pay that much whether you get sick or not. You pay the same whether you make good health choices or destroy your body through neglect and bad health practices. Under the American system, you can save a lot if you take care of yourself, and you can choose to buy more insurance than you need or less. It's up to you. You, OTOH, don't have that choice.

Look, we got another Medical Calvinist in the House. Hey, remember Jim Fixx? He was the guy who was big into running and healthy living... and he keeled over and died of a heart attack at 52.

Jim Fixx - Wikipedia

Are you content then with your government superiors making choices for you because they know better than you what's good for you? Nice anecdote, BTW. Is that really informative?

I think this was meant for me. Check the names in the reply it got mixed up a bit. My replies were the previous 2. To answer your question. As you acknowledged some people make dumb choices, so yes the government in some cases does know better what's good for you than you yourself do.

To make it less hypothetical. When it comes to health care and health insurance. I don't care if it's private industry or my government who takes responsibility for it. The only thing I care about is what it covers and how much it costs me. It just happens that the government gets a better result since your for-profit system costs about twice as much covers less and leaves millions uninsured. If the price for that is that I pay an equal amount at 20 and at 60 I can only say "who cares".