Nashville Flower Shop Refuses Business with Republicans.

[martybegan]

Any excuse will do.

Not an excuse, an analysis of the situation at described.

 

[dblack]

Not an excuse, an analysis of the situation at described.

I think the "public accommodations" thing IS an excuse. It's just a handy rationalization for pursuing ever-greater state control of our economic affairs.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Because all your disagreements are rooted in that thing, that's the thing.
I'm sorry my exposing your homophobia and transphobia makes you uncomfortable....

But I am here to afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted!

Lol, see, that’s why it’s no use in debating you, you automatically assume if someone disagrees with you, it’s because their are homophobic. It never occurred to you that perhaps they just have a difference of opinion.

All my disagreements have nothing to do with any feeling, dislike, animosity or anything else, toward gay people. My arguments are strictly based on protected freedoms and peoples rights to observe those freedoms.

But as I said, it’s a waste of time with you because in your mind, all you see is “homophobia”

 

[JoeB131]

Education absolutely plays a role to shape the minds and prepare children for reality .... and when you become a slave to government through free or subsidized benefits .. you lose determination and incentive to become successful.

Well, um, some problems with that...

First, getting government benefits does not make you a "slave". It just means that we have determined that there should be a safety net. A slave has no say. Clearly, we have a say in what benefits we give out, whether it be the pittance we spend on poverty relief, or the fortune we spend on middle class entitlements so Grandma doesn't move in with you when she retires.

They shouldn't have to do that in a free society.

But freedom is balancing interests, at the end of the day.
In a truly "Free" society, the baker can refuse to bake the cake, but an angry gay mob could burn his store to the ground in retaliation, then an angry mob of homophobes can hunt the gays down. You get the idea. Freedom looks like our inner cities during TRUMP RIOTS. No rules, no holds barred and damn that escalated quickly.

A free society with rules and protections means that someone has to arbitrate disputes... and if you don't like the decision, you just have to learn how to live with it.

Or just lie about being available that weekend instead of screaming about sodomites to total strangers who just wanted a cake.

State law cannot override the Constitutional Right to Free Exercise.

Jim Crow Laws were "State laws", I guess we should have just let them remain in place, right?

Except the constitution granted the states the rights to make their own laws under the 10th Amendment.

Read the first amendment, you dumb fuck, before you comment on threads like this.

The first Amendment says the Congress shall make no law regarding religion.

Not really applicable to this case. The Homophobe who uses religion as an excuse is legally the same as the guy who doesn't believe in God, but just thinks the butt-sex is icky.

 

[dblack]

But freedom is balancing interests, at the end of the day.

Nope. It's about balancing rights. If someone is "interested" in taking all your shit, that doesn't mean you have to give them half your shit in the name of "balancing interests".

 

[JoeB131]

I think the "public accommodations" thing IS an excuse. It's just a handy rationalization for pursuing ever-greater state control of our economic affairs.

Only if you are a libertarian child who wants to live without rules.
I like rules. Rules protect my rights from people who have more power and money than I have.

Lol, see, that’s why it’s no use in debating you, you automatically assume if someone disagrees with you, it’s because their are homophobic. It never occurred to you that perhaps they just have a difference of opinion.

Nope, it never occurs to me that when someone puts THIS MUCH EFFORT into screwing people over, that it is because of anything other than irrational hate. Just be man enough to admit it.

All my disagreements have nothing to do with any feeling, dislike, animosity or anything else, toward gay people. My arguments are strictly based on protected freedoms and peoples rights to observe those freedoms.

Sure they are. Because clearly, if your worst problem is having to do a job you promised to do and get paid for it, that is like the worst thing ever.

 

[JoeB131]

Nope. It's about balancing rights. If someone is "interested" in taking all your shit, that doesn't mean you have to give them half your shit in the name of "balancing interests".

Well, good thing no one is trying to do that, Libertarian Child.

 

[dblack]

Only if you are a libertarian child who wants to live without rules.

Nah. Individual rights, much to your dismay, are a fundamental part of our national tradition. They're not dead yet! Sorry.

 

[JoeB131]

Where does the Constitution say you lose your right to free exercise when you try to sell something?

Argumentum ad absurdum. Murder is not equivalent to making someone spend 10 minutes going to another baker for an event you plan for months in advance.

And Murder is not the equivalent to doing a job that takes you a couple of hours and for which you will be paid handsomely for. So what is your point here. Who suffers the most anguish, the person who is refused a service, or a person who has to do what he actually promised to do and is paid for his time, materials and talent.

Your retorts are the ones usually done by idiot college students, who lock into whatever their prog professor tells them to think.

Uh, huh, because your postings are so full of original thought, Marty.

 

[JoeB131]

Nah. Individual rights, much to your dismay, are a fundamental part of our national tradition. They're not dead yet! Sorry.

It's not a matter of individual rights. it's a matter of business law.

If the baker said he just hates them homos, (or Jews, or blacks) but he doesn't go to church, we simply would not be having this argument.

 

[dblack]

It's not a matter of individual rights. it's a matter of business law.

Well, it's not surprising you see the two as different. No place for individual rights in your world. Obey.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Only if you are a libertarian child who wants to live without rules.
I like rules. Rules protect my rights from people who have more power and money than I have.



Nope, it never occurs to me that when someone puts THIS MUCH EFFORT into screwing people over, that it is because of anything other than irrational hate. Just be man enough to admit it.



Sure they are. Because clearly, if your worst problem is having to do a job you promised to do and get paid for it, that is like the worst thing ever.

Ok joe, I’d like you to go back and show me anything I’ve ever said that was homophobic. Go ahead, I’ll wait. Look back into ALL of my posts and show me anything, anywhere, where I have ever said anything homophobic or derogatory towards gay or trans people.

If you think I’m such the homophobe, this should be really easy for you. So…go ahead. Show me.

 

[JoeB131]

Well, it's not surprising you see the two as different. No place for individual rights in your world. Obey.

Of course they are different. An individual has rights because his actions ONLY effect him.
A business has obligations because their actions effect their customers, vendors, and the community at large.

Ok joe, I’d like you to go back and show me anything I’ve ever said that was homophobic.

YOu mean other than all your screaming about how his rights were being violated and how we are abusing trans kids by helping them?

You are a homophobe. Deal with it.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Of course they are different. An individual has rights because his actions ONLY effect him.
A business has obligations because their actions effect their customers, vendors, and the community at large.



YOu mean other than all your screaming about how his rights were being violated and how we are abusing trans kids by helping them?

You are a homophobe. Deal with it.

None of which are against gay or trans people. You see, you use that word “homophobia” as some kind of weapon, but you can’t find anything I’ve ever said that was homophobic.

Yes, i defended Phillips, based on his cotus rights, and that has zero basis in homophobia. Yes, I don’t think we should be trying to transition children because it can be harmful to them, again, zero homophobia.

In all those discussion we had, never once did I say anything bad about the gay community, never once did I say that gay people shouldn’t be allowed to marry, never once did I say that trans shouldn’t be allowed to be trans etc. The whole idea of homophobia is something you made up, with no basis or evidence.

I’m just giving you an opportunity to call me out here. Nothing you’ve said indicates any homophobia. As I said, you just think anyone who disagrees with you is a homophobe, and that’s why it’s pointless to debate with you.

 

[Frankenstein]

Sure. How do you know? Let’s try and see what happens. Worse case kids still die but we tried.

Give me your sure fired way to get criminals to give up their guns and then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,no i still have my 2nd amendment right, that you and the tyrannical Government will not infringe upon. The law isn't even about what I can, or can't do, it's about what the Government CAN"T do.

 

[martybegan]

Any excuse will do.

Positions, not excuses.

Unearned hubris is unearned.

 

[martybegan]

Well, um, some problems with that...

First, getting government benefits does not make you a "slave". It just means that we have determined that there should be a safety net. A slave has no say. Clearly, we have a say in what benefits we give out, whether it be the pittance we spend on poverty relief, or the fortune we spend on middle class entitlements so Grandma doesn't move in with you when she retires.



But freedom is balancing interests, at the end of the day.
In a truly "Free" society, the baker can refuse to bake the cake, but an angry gay mob could burn his store to the ground in retaliation, then an angry mob of homophobes can hunt the gays down. You get the idea. Freedom looks like our inner cities during TRUMP RIOTS. No rules, no holds barred and damn that escalated quickly.

A free society with rules and protections means that someone has to arbitrate disputes... and if you don't like the decision, you just have to learn how to live with it.

Or just lie about being available that weekend instead of screaming about sodomites to total strangers who just wanted a cake.



Except the constitution granted the states the rights to make their own laws under the 10th Amendment.


The first Amendment says the Congress shall make no law regarding religion.

Not really applicable to this case. The Homophobe who uses religion as an excuse is legally the same as the guy who doesn't believe in God, but just thinks the butt-sex is icky.

Anyone who gets violent over having to spend 10 minutes finding another baker needs to be shot out of hand.

Then the 14th amendment incorporated the bill of rights onto the States, making the limits on the federal government apply to the State governments.

 

[martybegan]

And Murder is not the equivalent to doing a job that takes you a couple of hours and for which you will be paid handsomely for. So what is your point here. Who suffers the most anguish, the person who is refused a service, or a person who has to do what he actually promised to do and is paid for his time, materials and talent.


Uh, huh, because your postings are so full of original thought, Marty.

The person who has to choose between their morals or closing their business suffers the most.

More than the drip I was replying to. And you confuse steadfastness of opinion for a lack of originality.

You may be a loveless old dried up twat, but you are better than that oxygen thief.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, i defended Phillips, based on his cotus rights, and that has zero basis in homophobia.

Other than you were defending a homophobe's right to hate.

Yes, I don’t think we should be trying to transition children because it can be harmful to them, again, zero homophobia.

Well, no, that would technically be transphobia.

Anyone who gets violent over having to spend 10 minutes finding another baker needs to be shot out of hand.

Again, your side got violent because they didn't like an election result.

The person who has to choose between their morals or closing their business suffers the most.

Then they shouldn't be in business.

 

[Foul Owl]

If you're a business owner you SHOULD NOT inject politics into your decisions. Doesn't work. Bud Light tried it and we all see how that's working out for them.