Nazism vs. Communism

[harmonica]

in Bloodlands, they dedicate a whole chapter to comparing the nazi and Stalinist regimes

 

[frigidweirdo]

I got to thinking, why is communism more politically correct than Nazism? Nazism is banned in entire countries, and in places like the US you become an outcast within society.

However, this is not the case with communism. On these boards, we have proud communists, but not so much when it comes to Nazism. In fact, leaning towards Communism is fairly common as we still have entire communist governments still in existence, but none are Nazis.

So which ideology is more evil? Consider this from Wiki.

Comparison of Communism and Nazism[edit]

Courtois considers Communism and Nazism to be distinct, but comparable totalitarian systems. He says that Communist regimes have killed "approximately 100 million people in contrast to the approximately 25 million victims of the Nazis".[6]:15 Courtois claims that Nazi Germany's methods of mass extermination were adopted from Soviet methods. As an example, he cites the Nazi SS official Rudolf Höss who organized the infamous extermination camp, Auschwitz concentration camp. According to Höss:[6]:15


The Reich Security Head Office issued to the commandants a full collection of reports concerning the Russian concentration camps. These described in great detail the conditions in, and organization of, the Russian camps, as supplied by former prisoners who had managed to escape. Great emphasis was placed on the fact that the Russians, by their massive employment of forced labor, had destroyed whole peoples.

Courtois argues that the Soviet crimes against peoples living in the Caucasus and of large social groups in the Soviet Union could be called "genocide" and that they were not very much different from similar policies by Nazis. Both Communist and Nazi systems deemed "a part of humanity unworthy of existence. The difference is that the Communist model is based on the class system, the Nazi model on race and territory".[6]:15 Courtois further stated:


The "genocide of a "class" may well be tantamount to the genocide of a "race"—the deliberate starvation of a child of a Ukrainian kulak as a result of the famine caused by Stalin's regime "is equal to" the starvation of a Jewish child in the Warsaw ghetto as a result of the famine caused by the Nazi regime.

He added:


After 1945 the Jewish genocide became a byword for modern barbarism, the epitome of twentieth-century mass terror. [...] [M]ore recently, a single-minded focus on the Jewish genocide in an attempt to characterize the Holocaust as a unique atrocity has also prevented the assessment of other episodes of comparable magnitude in the Communist world. After all, it seems scarcely plausible that the victors who had helped bring about the destruction of a genocidal apparatus might themselves have put the very same methods into practice. When faced with this paradox, people generally preferred to bury their heads in sand. [...] Communist regimes have victimized approximately 100 million people in contrast to the approximately 25 million of the Nazis.

Well, it's a bit of a silly comparison because there's never been a Communist state.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Communists, and also Capitalists have killed far more than Fascism had, by a long shot.

But, Fascism is the scape-goat, and why?

Maybe because Fascism targeted the right people????????

Fascists managed media, were for cracking down on international banking, and were anti-Free-Mason, and anti-Jewish.

Perhaps, were the Nazis anti-New World Order??????

Not that I'm pro-Nazi, it's just they got more right, than Republicans, or Democrats, even if they got more wrong.

I certainly don't support, but rather condemn Nazi atrocities, none the less, like the crimes of the Holocaust, and Generalplan Ost.

But, Soviets killed under Lenin, and then again under Stalin as much as Nazis, yet not as much of a peep.

 

[Lesh]

Told ya.

This thread is nothing but a defense of Nazism

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Jews and Bolshevism: Names and Lists. The Council of the People’s Commissars

Not just the Bolshies, but keep in mind in the Gulag era, people like Lazar Kogan, Lazar Kaganovich, Genrikh Yagoda, Matvei Berman, were some prominent "Chosen few" who caused the "Killed the Chosen millions"

Communism, wasn't a very Russian ordeal, I mean many Poles blame Russians for Katyn Massacre, yet the 2 people in charge of ordering Katyn Massacre, were 2 Georgians, of Beria, and Stalin.

Russians were the ultimate victims of Soviet terror, along with Ukrainians, it's such a shame.

Yet, some Russian goofs still see Stalin as a hero, as do some Eastern Ukrainians.

It's pretty ridiculous, Germans feel bad about Hitler, but Russians don't about Stalin, and Brits not about Cromwell, or Disraeli who killed many.

It seems Germans have been treated a bit unfairly, as have Poles, and others too.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

I got to thinking, why is communism more politically correct than Nazism? Nazism is banned in entire countries, and in places like the US you become an outcast within society.

However, this is not the case with communism. On these boards, we have proud communists, but not so much when it comes to Nazism. In fact, leaning towards Communism is fairly common as we still have entire communist governments still in existence, but none are Nazis.

So which ideology is more evil? Consider this from Wiki.

Comparison of Communism and Nazism[edit]

Courtois considers Communism and Nazism to be distinct, but comparable totalitarian systems. He says that Communist regimes have killed "approximately 100 million people in contrast to the approximately 25 million victims of the Nazis".[6]:15 Courtois claims that Nazi Germany's methods of mass extermination were adopted from Soviet methods. As an example, he cites the Nazi SS official Rudolf Höss who organized the infamous extermination camp, Auschwitz concentration camp. According to Höss:[6]:15


The Reich Security Head Office issued to the commandants a full collection of reports concerning the Russian concentration camps. These described in great detail the conditions in, and organization of, the Russian camps, as supplied by former prisoners who had managed to escape. Great emphasis was placed on the fact that the Russians, by their massive employment of forced labor, had destroyed whole peoples.

Courtois argues that the Soviet crimes against peoples living in the Caucasus and of large social groups in the Soviet Union could be called "genocide" and that they were not very much different from similar policies by Nazis. Both Communist and Nazi systems deemed "a part of humanity unworthy of existence. The difference is that the Communist model is based on the class system, the Nazi model on race and territory".[6]:15 Courtois further stated:


The "genocide of a "class" may well be tantamount to the genocide of a "race"—the deliberate starvation of a child of a Ukrainian kulak as a result of the famine caused by Stalin's regime "is equal to" the starvation of a Jewish child in the Warsaw ghetto as a result of the famine caused by the Nazi regime.

He added:


After 1945 the Jewish genocide became a byword for modern barbarism, the epitome of twentieth-century mass terror. [...] [M]ore recently, a single-minded focus on the Jewish genocide in an attempt to characterize the Holocaust as a unique atrocity has also prevented the assessment of other episodes of comparable magnitude in the Communist world. After all, it seems scarcely plausible that the victors who had helped bring about the destruction of a genocidal apparatus might themselves have put the very same methods into practice. When faced with this paradox, people generally preferred to bury their heads in sand. [...] Communist regimes have victimized approximately 100 million people in contrast to the approximately 25 million of the Nazis.

/——-/ Nazis created snappy uniforms and really cool planes and tanks. Commies had to steal our designs.

Eh, that's a huge overstatement.

The Soviet T-34 tank was ahead of it's time.

Soviets also put the first Man, Satellite, Space station, and Lunar rover into space.

So, I wouldn't say that Soviets just stole designs, in fact I'd say such is just a bogus anti-Russian propaganda.

Not that I love Russians, I'm more or less neutral to them.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

...Both were genocidal totalitarian collectivist states.

Now if you want to get into the minutia of how they went about things have at it, but they were like brother and sister.

That's bull. History is what it is:

---and just two communist dictators alone account for almost eight times the death toll of the Nazis. Hundreds of millions killed is not what I'd call "minutia".

What is your point? That Hitler was okay because he didn't kill as many people?
Wow.

I'd tend to think Hitler was more of a German ordeal, rather than a Fascist ordeal.

Many countries in Southern, and Eastern Europe were modeling their governments off of Fascism, and most of them killed few, including Mussolini.

I mean, Mussolini is like the #2 evil, yet Abe Lincoln, W. Bush, LBJ, FDR, and Truman clearly killed more than Mussolini.

There's clearly an anti-Fascist stigma, which proves they pissed off the right people.

Even though I'm against killing, war, and violence, which means I'm anti-Nazism.

It's just Nazis did more right, and more wrong than Democrats, or Republicans.

American politics to me has no value, anymore, they just squabble, spend, and sell out, and decay our country.

 

[harmonica]

...Both were genocidal totalitarian collectivist states.

Now if you want to get into the minutia of how they went about things have at it, but they were like brother and sister.

That's bull. History is what it is:

---and just two communist dictators alone account for almost eight times the death toll of the Nazis. Hundreds of millions killed is not what I'd call "minutia".

60 million...?!
that's comparable to the total of WW2 deaths--civilian and military
this sounds ridiculous--this is bullshit

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

...Both were genocidal totalitarian collectivist states.

Now if you want to get into the minutia of how they went about things have at it, but they were like brother and sister.

That's bull. History is what it is:

---and just two communist dictators alone account for almost eight times the death toll of the Nazis. Hundreds of millions killed is not what I'd call "minutia".

60 million...?!
that's comparable to the total of WW2 deaths--civilian and military
this sounds ridiculous--this is bullshit

The Black book of Communism puts 56 - 70 million for the entire Soviet era.

Only probably 40 million are Stalin's.

The other 15 - 30 million are Lenin's.

So, the World didn't stop two Commies who did genocides on a scale of Nazism.

It seems there were anti-Fascist convictions.

Millions of Ukrainians died in the 1930's, and no one came to rescue Ukraine.

However, Millions of Jews died, and everybody's trying to help.

I tend to think the elites wanted to stomp out Fascism, because they were anti-Free-Mason, anti-Jewish banker, anti-Media etc. etc.

It was the perfect backlash, to create this modern society, they needed to kick, and scream Nazi, to instill Liberalism in our brains.

Now, the pendulum swings again, we'll see what they shall do, next step.

 

[Soupnazi630]

it's not so much the system as much as it is the people that run the system
Stalin starved and murdered hundreds of thousands
communist Pol Pot was a lunatic who murdered thousands
communist NKorea started an ''illegal'' war/etc
we really had only one major nazi party, yes?
now if you include dictatorships, that's different
Saddam, Amin, etc--all jackasses

The Nazi "system" ended up using the "final solution" as part of their systematic plan, though, which I doubt Communism anywhere actually touted.

Keep our democracy, since the alternatives suck. Since politics in this country began going full obstructionist, the last two presidents have turned to EO's to get things done. That's the beginning. We are opening that door by not allowing the system to work. Compromise and bipartisanship is the only answer.

Stalin/communist/Pol Pot had hundreds of thousands murdered/starved
I'd rate hitler and Stalin the same

Your numbers are way low and leaves out many.

Lenin murdered millions
Stalin ,murdered tens of millions
Mao murdered hundreds of millions
Pol pot murdered hundreds of thousands as did castro.

Communism is a far more evil ideology.

 

[Soupnazi630]

...Both were genocidal totalitarian collectivist states.

Now if you want to get into the minutia of how they went about things have at it, but they were like brother and sister.

That's bull. History is what it is:

---and just two communist dictators alone account for almost eight times the death toll of the Nazis. Hundreds of millions killed is not what I'd call "minutia".

60 million...?!
that's comparable to the total of WW2 deaths--civilian and military
this sounds ridiculous--this is bullshit

Documented fact

 

[harmonica]

...Both were genocidal totalitarian collectivist states.

Now if you want to get into the minutia of how they went about things have at it, but they were like brother and sister.

That's bull. History is what it is:

---and just two communist dictators alone account for almost eight times the death toll of the Nazis. Hundreds of millions killed is not what I'd call "minutia".

60 million...?!
that's comparable to the total of WW2 deaths--civilian and military
this sounds ridiculous--this is bullshit

The Black book of Communism puts 56 - 70 million for the entire Soviet era.

Only probably 40 million are Stalin's.

The other 15 - 30 million are Lenin's.

So, the World didn't stop two Commies who did genocides on a scale of Nazism.

It seems there were anti-Fascist convictions.

Millions of Ukrainians died in the 1930's, and no one came to rescue Ukraine.

However, Millions of Jews died, and everybody's trying to help.

I tend to think the elites wanted to stomp out Fascism, because they were anti-Free-Mason, anti-Jewish banker, anti-Media etc. etc.

It was the perfect backlash, to create this modern society, they needed to kick, and scream Nazi, to instill Liberalism in our brains.

Now, the pendulum swings again, we'll see what they shall do, next step.

very hard to believe that
...we have the deaths of the Pacific-Burma-India theater, European, African, Ost Front total 50- 72 million
you have hundreds of thousands died ''instantly'' by the A-Bombs
tanks/bombers/arty/etc
B-29s/B17s dropping 500/1000 pounders
Lancasters dropping blockbuster 4000 pounders
etc
and we are to believe 50 to 70 million for the Soviet murders?

 

[Soupnazi630]

...Both were genocidal totalitarian collectivist states.

Now if you want to get into the minutia of how they went about things have at it, but they were like brother and sister.

That's bull. History is what it is:

---and just two communist dictators alone account for almost eight times the death toll of the Nazis. Hundreds of millions killed is not what I'd call "minutia".

60 million...?!
that's comparable to the total of WW2 deaths--civilian and military
this sounds ridiculous--this is bullshit

The Black book of Communism puts 56 - 70 million for the entire Soviet era.

Only probably 40 million are Stalin's.

The other 15 - 30 million are Lenin's.

So, the World didn't stop two Commies who did genocides on a scale of Nazism.

It seems there were anti-Fascist convictions.

Millions of Ukrainians died in the 1930's, and no one came to rescue Ukraine.

However, Millions of Jews died, and everybody's trying to help.

I tend to think the elites wanted to stomp out Fascism, because they were anti-Free-Mason, anti-Jewish banker, anti-Media etc. etc.

It was the perfect backlash, to create this modern society, they needed to kick, and scream Nazi, to instill Liberalism in our brains.

Now, the pendulum swings again, we'll see what they shall do, next step.

very hard to believe that
...we have the deaths of the Pacific-Burma-India theater, European, African, Ost Front total 50- 72 million
you have hundreds of thousands died ''instantly'' by the A-Bombs
tanks/bombers/arty/etc
B-29s/B17s dropping 500/1000 pounders
Lancasters dropping blockbuster 4000 pounders
etc
and we are to believe 50 to 70 million for the Soviet murders?

Yes soviet archives which were opened after the fall of the USSR prove it.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Because those that invented and lead Communism now control and lead education,political and judicial systems so they can control what's taught and learned.

Ummm...Marx and Engels "invented communism" and are long dead...as is communism.

Fascism however is alive and well unfortunately and threads like this are trying to legitimize it

Hitler and Mussolini are dead.

The few fascists who exist are ass clowns.

However our universities are staffed by m any communists teaching the evils of communism to kids every day.

Total left wing ignorance as usual

 

[harmonica]

...Both were genocidal totalitarian collectivist states.

Now if you want to get into the minutia of how they went about things have at it, but they were like brother and sister.

That's bull. History is what it is:

---and just two communist dictators alone account for almost eight times the death toll of the Nazis. Hundreds of millions killed is not what I'd call "minutia".

60 million...?!
that's comparable to the total of WW2 deaths--civilian and military
this sounds ridiculous--this is bullshit

Documented fact

it's documented that it's not a fact in Bloodlands
the Germans were much more industrious/orderly/efficient/etc in their methods
I don't see the Russians doing that much

 

[harmonica]

...Both were genocidal totalitarian collectivist states.

Now if you want to get into the minutia of how they went about things have at it, but they were like brother and sister.

That's bull. History is what it is:

---and just two communist dictators alone account for almost eight times the death toll of the Nazis. Hundreds of millions killed is not what I'd call "minutia".

60 million...?!
that's comparable to the total of WW2 deaths--civilian and military
this sounds ridiculous--this is bullshit

The Black book of Communism puts 56 - 70 million for the entire Soviet era.

Only probably 40 million are Stalin's.

The other 15 - 30 million are Lenin's.

So, the World didn't stop two Commies who did genocides on a scale of Nazism.

It seems there were anti-Fascist convictions.

Millions of Ukrainians died in the 1930's, and no one came to rescue Ukraine.

However, Millions of Jews died, and everybody's trying to help.

I tend to think the elites wanted to stomp out Fascism, because they were anti-Free-Mason, anti-Jewish banker, anti-Media etc. etc.

It was the perfect backlash, to create this modern society, they needed to kick, and scream Nazi, to instill Liberalism in our brains.

Now, the pendulum swings again, we'll see what they shall do, next step.

very hard to believe that
...we have the deaths of the Pacific-Burma-India theater, European, African, Ost Front total 50- 72 million
you have hundreds of thousands died ''instantly'' by the A-Bombs
tanks/bombers/arty/etc
B-29s/B17s dropping 500/1000 pounders
Lancasters dropping blockbuster 4000 pounders
etc
and we are to believe 50 to 70 million for the Soviet murders?

Yes soviet archives which were opened after the fall of the USSR prove it.

what's the start stop dates?

 

[Soupnazi630]

...Both were genocidal totalitarian collectivist states.

Now if you want to get into the minutia of how they went about things have at it, but they were like brother and sister.

That's bull. History is what it is:

---and just two communist dictators alone account for almost eight times the death toll of the Nazis. Hundreds of millions killed is not what I'd call "minutia".

60 million...?!
that's comparable to the total of WW2 deaths--civilian and military
this sounds ridiculous--this is bullshit

Documented fact

it's documented that it's not a fact in Bloodlands
the Germans were much more industrious/orderly/efficient/etc in their methods
I don't see the Russians doing that much

No it is not documented anywhere that it is not a fact.

The nazis murdered for a few years the communists for decades and it is documented fact

 

[Soupnazi630]

That's bull. History is what it is:

---and just two communist dictators alone account for almost eight times the death toll of the Nazis. Hundreds of millions killed is not what I'd call "minutia".

60 million...?!
that's comparable to the total of WW2 deaths--civilian and military
this sounds ridiculous--this is bullshit

The Black book of Communism puts 56 - 70 million for the entire Soviet era.

Only probably 40 million are Stalin's.

The other 15 - 30 million are Lenin's.

So, the World didn't stop two Commies who did genocides on a scale of Nazism.

It seems there were anti-Fascist convictions.

Millions of Ukrainians died in the 1930's, and no one came to rescue Ukraine.

However, Millions of Jews died, and everybody's trying to help.

I tend to think the elites wanted to stomp out Fascism, because they were anti-Free-Mason, anti-Jewish banker, anti-Media etc. etc.

It was the perfect backlash, to create this modern society, they needed to kick, and scream Nazi, to instill Liberalism in our brains.

Now, the pendulum swings again, we'll see what they shall do, next step.

very hard to believe that
...we have the deaths of the Pacific-Burma-India theater, European, African, Ost Front total 50- 72 million
you have hundreds of thousands died ''instantly'' by the A-Bombs
tanks/bombers/arty/etc
B-29s/B17s dropping 500/1000 pounders
Lancasters dropping blockbuster 4000 pounders
etc
and we are to believe 50 to 70 million for the Soviet murders?

Yes soviet archives which were opened after the fall of the USSR prove it.

what's the start stop dates?

1918 through the 1950s

 

[harmonica]

...Both were genocidal totalitarian collectivist states.

Now if you want to get into the minutia of how they went about things have at it, but they were like brother and sister.

That's bull. History is what it is:

---and just two communist dictators alone account for almost eight times the death toll of the Nazis. Hundreds of millions killed is not what I'd call "minutia".

60 million...?!
that's comparable to the total of WW2 deaths--civilian and military
this sounds ridiculous--this is bullshit

Documented fact

it's documented that it's not a fact in Bloodlands
the Germans were much more industrious/orderly/efficient/etc in their methods
I don't see the Russians doing that much

No it is not documented anywhere that it is not a fact.

The nazis murdered for a few years the communists for decades and it is documented fact

you are saying they killed more than were killed in all of WW2 all over the world?

 

[Soupnazi630]

That's bull. History is what it is:

---and just two communist dictators alone account for almost eight times the death toll of the Nazis. Hundreds of millions killed is not what I'd call "minutia".

60 million...?!
that's comparable to the total of WW2 deaths--civilian and military
this sounds ridiculous--this is bullshit

Documented fact

it's documented that it's not a fact in Bloodlands
the Germans were much more industrious/orderly/efficient/etc in their methods
I don't see the Russians doing that much

No it is not documented anywhere that it is not a fact.

The nazis murdered for a few years the communists for decades and it is documented fact

you are saying they killed more than were killed in all of WW2 all over the world?

Communism has done so yes.

It is the universal practice of communism when it's followers take over a country