Nelson Mandela dead

[Katzndogz]

No one hates Nelson Mandela. We might refuse to perform obesiance, but that's not hate. Hate should be reserved for real wrongdoing that harms the individual holding the opinion, reserved for obama for instance.

Mandela is not a saint, for most of his life, he wasn't even a good person. That's why he reminds me of Robert Stroud. A throroughly evil man, who somehow did great things.

What about Mandela was "thoroughly evil"? Was he a murderer? Did he confiscate private property without cause? Did he support a political ideology that mandated segregation, removal of God given rights and injustice?

It seems he was the opposite of all that. How does evil apply to Nelson Mandela?

Mandela murdered many people, black and white. He confiscated private property until he became bedridden. He supported segregation and injustice as long as it was applied to whites. Mandela invented the Mandela Necklace that his wife promoted while he was in prison. As president he instituted GEAR as a national policy. Growth, employment and redistribution. Unemployment is 33%. There is no growth. Redistribution is grinding to a halt as there is nothing left to redistribute. The confiscation of private property is running out of private property to confiscate.

Much of the evil of the present ANC government is not exactly Mandela's fault. Like all African governments it is filled with the corrupt and greedy. With leaders who steal from an impoverished people to hide fortunes in white European banks. But that is the government that Mandela created.

He was a thoroughly evil man who somehow managed to do great things in spite of his soullessness.

We will probably make the same kind of saint out of Fidel Castro when he goes.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Dude, even Rush Limbaugh was praising Mandela today. You're way off on your own in lalaland here.

 

[BDBoop]

Dude, even Rush Limbaugh was praising Mandela today. You're way off on your own in lalaland here.

Whenever I see someone insulting a person like Mandela, or yes - Obama. Not that they're on the same playing field BUT look what they have each accomplished in their lives. And you're going to sit there and claim that either they didn't do shit or worse, they did damage?

What have YOU done? Seriously. Tell me where you have room to talk, because you have accomplished such great things in your life.

Or, you know. Just STFU.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Dude, even Rush Limbaugh was praising Mandela today. You're way off on your own in lalaland here.

So Rush is a speaker for you?
What bad have I said against Mandela? UH that's right he's a communist.

 

[Katzndogz]

Dude, even Rush Limbaugh was praising Mandela today. You're way off on your own in lalaland here.

All of Mandela's peacefullness came after his 27 years in prison. It mellowed him out some. No one is going to get on radio or television and tell the truth. Not now.

 

[Kondor3]

So, have we figured out yet that Nelson Mandela was a reformed Guerrilla Leader and Revolutionary who eventually had a change of heart, who set aside violence and retribution, and who guided South Africa in its Time of Transition, without a wholesale massacre occurring, so that he came to be widely admired for his 'personal reformation' and for his leadership during that transition, and which led to him becoming a credible spokesperson for people struggling to attain or maintain their basic rights - an emeritus role which won him additional affection and admiration in his later years?

 

[Derideo_Te]

The legacy of Mr Mandela is central to any assessment of his place in history. Imo he has no lasting achievement of any consequence.

What a dilemma? The virtually universal opinion of the entire world as to Mandela's legacy versus that of a nonentity on a message board? Which to choose?

Virtually the entire world is undergoing a bout of hyped-up virtual hysteria. So go on - choose me. You know it makes sense.

Nothing you have said about Mandela makes sense but interesting that you are delusional enough to believe that the rest of the world is wrong and only you are right.

 

[Derideo_Te]

If he was a thug you wouldn't hear about it from the media mainstream that is. Alt. media would be disregarded if it were true. just look at how the media treats obama. Anyone who calls them-self a communist no matter how good they act, they're still a communist.

You have yet to prove that he was a full blown communist. What policies did he enact as president of South Africa that would lead anyone to believe he was one?

Here's an interesting analogy:

Ronald Reagan was a staunch Democrat until 1962. By 1963, he was campaigning as a full blown Republican. Using your reasoning, he should still be a Democrat. Mandela needed help from the Communists. The only way he would get it was to join the SACP.

What say you?

Reagan may have started out as a democrat but in the end he was true to the core Republican

Reagan hated war and was all for compromise with the Dems.

 

[WillReadmore]

Having someone else go in and take over is all that can help Africa.

I like most of what you said, but with this one I have issues.

We've run a few experiments along that "conquest, then nation building" line. We suck at that, and I don't believe anyone else can do it better than we can.

We need to look more at cases that were successful.

We should look at Turkey, not Iraq or Afg. Turkey wasn't fast and it's still somewhat of a work in progress. But, I think it shows what is needed beyond holding national elections once or twice.

 

[Derideo_Te]

No one hates Nelson Mandela. We might refuse to perform obesiance, but that's not hate. Hate should be reserved for real wrongdoing that harms the individual holding the opinion, reserved for obama for instance.

Mandela is not a saint, for most of his life, he wasn't even a good person. That's why he reminds me of Robert Stroud. A throroughly evil man, who somehow did great things.

What about Mandela was "thoroughly evil"? Was he a murderer? Did he confiscate private property without cause? Did he support a political ideology that mandated segregation, removal of God given rights and injustice?

It seems he was the opposite of all that. How does evil apply to Nelson Mandela?

Mandela murdered many people, black and white. He confiscated private property until he became bedridden. He supported segregation and injustice as long as it was applied to whites. Mandela invented the Mandela Necklace that his wife promoted while he was in prison. As president he instituted GEAR as a national policy. Growth, employment and redistribution. Unemployment is 33%. There is no growth. Redistribution is grinding to a halt as there is nothing left to redistribute. The confiscation of private property is running out of private property to confiscate.

Much of the evil of the present ANC government is not exactly Mandela's fault. Like all African governments it is filled with the corrupt and greedy. With leaders who steal from an impoverished people to hide fortunes in white European banks. But that is the government that Mandela created.

He was a thoroughly evil man who somehow managed to do great things in spite of his soullessness.

We will probably make the same kind of saint out of Fidel Castro when he goes.

That has to be the dumbest load of utter horse manure ever posted about Mandela but considering the source I am not in the least surprised.

 

[Lumpy 1]

What about Mandela was "thoroughly evil"? Was he a murderer? Did he confiscate private property without cause? Did he support a political ideology that mandated segregation, removal of God given rights and injustice?

It seems he was the opposite of all that. How does evil apply to Nelson Mandela?

Mandela murdered many people, black and white. He confiscated private property until he became bedridden. He supported segregation and injustice as long as it was applied to whites. Mandela invented the Mandela Necklace that his wife promoted while he was in prison. As president he instituted GEAR as a national policy. Growth, employment and redistribution. Unemployment is 33%. There is no growth. Redistribution is grinding to a halt as there is nothing left to redistribute. The confiscation of private property is running out of private property to confiscate.

Much of the evil of the present ANC government is not exactly Mandela's fault. Like all African governments it is filled with the corrupt and greedy. With leaders who steal from an impoverished people to hide fortunes in white European banks. But that is the government that Mandela created.

He was a thoroughly evil man who somehow managed to do great things in spite of his soullessness.

We will probably make the same kind of saint out of Fidel Castro when he goes.

That has to be the dumbest load of utter horse manure ever posted about Mandela but considering the source I am not in the least surprised.

Check this link and there's several more.

3 Things You Didn?t (Want To) Know About Nelson Mandela - The Backbencher

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Please, have just a little respect, and find another thread to flame each other?

I'm asking nicely - for now.

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

You are the one that brought up race, it was on your mind. You're using it now.

When one mentions race, does that automatically equate to racism?

When they use it in a negative sense yes it does.

There is nothing wrong or negative about whites, blacks, purples or any race.

Nelson Mandela fixed the race issues in South Africa.

 

[Unkotare]

Nelson Mandela fixed the race issues in South Africa.

"Fixed"?

 

[Nosmo King]

You're the one calling him a terrorist I'm calling him a communist which is a fact not BS.

Measure a Communist by his actions. Where are examples of Communism in Mandela? If he was a loathsome Communist, tell us how his Communism manifested itself. Otherwise, your criticism of Mandela shows not only a warped and misguided understanding of history and communist ideology, but a blindly ignorant judgment of a man who is universally admired by people of all political stripes.

So redeem yourself and your assessment by demonstrating in real clear terms how Mandela served a Communist political ideology.

Do I have something that I should be redeemed for NO I don't

That's one way of saying, "Because I say so, that's why!"

It's not evidence, it's not noble, hell! It' not true. Is this the best ya got?

 

[QuickHitCurepon]

Nelson Mandela fixed the race issues in South Africa.

"Fixed"?

Apartheid would still be alive and well in South Africa if it weren't for the sacrifices Mandela made by speaking out and therefore going to prison thereby thawing the hearts of the most fanatic in SA.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You have yet to prove that he was a full blown communist. What policies did he enact as president of South Africa that would lead anyone to believe he was one?

Here's an interesting analogy:

Ronald Reagan was a staunch Democrat until 1962. By 1963, he was campaigning as a full blown Republican. Using your reasoning, he should still be a Democrat. Mandela needed help from the Communists. The only way he would get it was to join the SACP.

What say you?

Reagan may have started out as a democrat but in the end he was true to the core Republican

Reagan hated war and was all for compromise with the Dems.

Reagan could compromise with democrats when he was president because most all had the same goal in mind, just different ways of doing it. I doubt he would compromise with democrats today.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Measure a Communist by his actions. Where are examples of Communism in Mandela? If he was a loathsome Communist, tell us how his Communism manifested itself. Otherwise, your criticism of Mandela shows not only a warped and misguided understanding of history and communist ideology, but a blindly ignorant judgment of a man who is universally admired by people of all political stripes.

So redeem yourself and your assessment by demonstrating in real clear terms how Mandela served a Communist political ideology.

Do I have something that I should be redeemed for NO I don't

That's one way of saying, "Because I say so, that's why!"

It's not evidence, it's not noble, hell! It' not true. Is this the best ya got?

He was an admitted communist the end

 

[Derideo_Te]

Mandela murdered many people, black and white. He confiscated private property until he became bedridden. He supported segregation and injustice as long as it was applied to whites. Mandela invented the Mandela Necklace that his wife promoted while he was in prison. As president he instituted GEAR as a national policy. Growth, employment and redistribution. Unemployment is 33%. There is no growth. Redistribution is grinding to a halt as there is nothing left to redistribute. The confiscation of private property is running out of private property to confiscate.

Much of the evil of the present ANC government is not exactly Mandela's fault. Like all African governments it is filled with the corrupt and greedy. With leaders who steal from an impoverished people to hide fortunes in white European banks. But that is the government that Mandela created.

He was a thoroughly evil man who somehow managed to do great things in spite of his soullessness.

We will probably make the same kind of saint out of Fidel Castro when he goes.

That has to be the dumbest load of utter horse manure ever posted about Mandela but considering the source I am not in the least surprised.

Check this link and there's several more.

3 Things You Didn?t (Want To) Know About Nelson Mandela - The Backbencher

[ame=http://youtu.be/R36lCK4IFuk]Nelson Mandela Freedom Fighter or Terrorist ? - YouTube[/ame]

Mandela was imprisoned in 1962 and allowed 1 letter every six months and 1 visitor per year for 20 minutes. As far as the allegations of terrorism go the document that they used to charge him with was discovered in a raid while he was in prison. It was a typed document too so it wasn't even his handwriting. The first attempt at a trial was so farcical that the judge threw it out of court.

Defense attorney Bram Fischer led off the proceedings with an attack on the sufficiency of the indictment. He argued that the charges were vague, and failed to provide any indication as to which defendants carried out which alleged acts of sabotage. Instead, the government's indictment simply stated that details concerning the sabotage were "peculiarly within the knowledge of the accused." Justice de Wet, in his flowing red robes beneath a wooden canopy, found the defense arguments convincing. He told Yutar that the indictment seemed to presuppose guilt and provided almost no clue as to the nature of the offenses. The indictment, Justice de Wet announced, must be quashed.

The Nelson Mandela (Rivonia) Trial: An Account

They then proceeded with a political show trial in order to achieve a conviction but they couldn't produce any actual "evidence" so they didn't get the death penalty that they sought.

Mandela was no shrinking violet but the case against him would never have stood up in the USA. The rest of that link is little more than "guilt by association". Procuring arms and meeting leaders of other nations is something that all governments and politicians do.

 

[Unkotare]

Nelson Mandela fixed the race issues in South Africa.

"Fixed"?

Apartheid would still be alive and well in South Africa if it weren't for the sacrifices Mandela made by speaking out and therefore going to prison thereby thawing the hearts of the most fanatic in SA.

Ok, you're kidding now, right?