New Audio Evidence of Trump & Giuliani Corruption and Official Misconduct

[DrLove]

Burning the flag is a pretty clear indication you don't exactly hold the USA in high regard

Burning the flag is a form of protected speech critical of government policies

BULLSHIT. It is offensive to man, God and country, is not protected by anyone but flag-burners, is fundamentally INCOMPATIBLE with remaining a citizen where you swear your allegiance TO said country, and only an expression of contempt and threat to your country, not at all needed to express ones "critical speech" of government policies. You should be summarily jailed then eventually expelled with your citizenship revoked.

and consistent with the right to petition the government for redress of grievances.

STILL BULLSHIT. One petitions the gov. for redress through our courts, not in the street like an animal burning the very REPRESENTATION of the country you profess to wish redress from.

Such political protest and speech critical of government is the highest form of patriotism and love of country.

THAT belief alone is grounds to consider you a person of suspicion to be closely watched. A person like you is no patriot, obviously has no love of country, you just burned it, and in most any other country would land you in chains. You want to burn something? Make your own sign or something expressing your displeasure and burn that. Better still, get the fuck out.

Flag is not country, and putting symbols like flags above individuals, is be far the worst thing anyone could do to harm a country,
The point of flag burning is to improve the country, so is a VERY patriotic act.
Pretending a country does not need improvement is what is harmful.

ROT. Just as the Bible is not just another book, the flag is not just a piece of cloth. Stomping on a burning flag as you scream hate and contempt for the country is anything but patriotic and will do nothing to improve the country, and the simple proof of that is if burning one flag improves the country a little, then why not burn all flags and really fix it???

Wrong actually. The American flag was designed to beat cops within an inch of their lives.
Where ya been?

Arkansas man accused of beating Capitol police officer with American flag during riot

According to court documents, two acquaintances identified Peter Francis Stager in multiple videos on Twitter.

www.wmcactionnews5.com

 

[lennypartiv]

Giuliani is some very serious legal trouble here. When this is combined with all the other likely upcoming charges against Rudy, he'd better get himself the best lawyer he can find because he's sure going to need help staying out of prison.

And in case anyone misses the point, any criminal conspiracy to commit a crime which is planned and executed by a lawyer and his client effectively negates any protections of a lawyer/client privileged and confidential communication.

I certainly hope that Giuliani is fully prepared for when Trump disavows any knowledge of what his lawyer was doing because that's been Trump's MO for decades.

Exclusive: New audio of 2019 phone call reveals how Giuliani pressured Ukraine to investigate baseless Biden conspiracies

Never-before-heard audio, obtained exclusively by CNN, shows how former President Donald Trump's longtime adviser Rudy Giuliani relentlessly pressured and coaxed the Ukrainian government in 2019 to investigate baseless conspiracies about then-candidate Joe Biden.

www.cnn.com

What a read. They sure are a dirty bunch.

Telling the Ukraines to hire a non corrupt prosecutor is a crime to you?

That's not, but trying to get a foreign national to eliminate a political rival is.

Lock him up!

what's the code section?

The only people I know that have actually hired a foreign national to "eliminate" a political rival is the DNC and Clinton when they hired Steele....don't you remember that?

No, I don't remember that. My recollection is that Hillary hired Fusion GPS, an American based firm.

GPS Fusion, who then hired a foreigner. The fact that the process is one step remove doesn't get her off the hook. If it did, then candidates could pour unlimited amounts into foreign firms with the simple expedient of having their law firm spend the money.

Of course it does, unless you can show she was involved in the hiring of Christopher Steele. Just because you don't understand the law doesn't mean Hillary broke it.

what law are you referring to?

the principal-agent relationship and the law makes her responsible for her agents actions

I see nothing in the law that makes her responsible for the who Fusion GPS hired unless she was involved with who they hired.

And the law of which I speak is...

§30121 Contributions and donations by foreign nationals​

​

(a) Prohibition​

​

It shall be unlawful for-​

​

(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make-​

​

(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;​

​

(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or​

​

(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or​

​

(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.​

​

​

oh it wasn’t a donation...she didn’t violate that law. She paid the foreign national

As a benefit to Trump's campaign, it qualified as a contribution or other thing of value.

Rudy was being paid...moreover is an american...he’s allowed to investigate and collect Op Reseach!

LOL

Uh, no, not even an American like Rudy is permitted by law to solicit campaign aid from a foreign national. I showed you the law... I don't see any exemptions in there for Rudy.

he’s certainly alllowe to ask for informasrik. the same the clinton campaign did with their agent Steele.

He wasn't simply asking for information. Why do you feel the need to lie like that? He asked the president of another country to find dirt on one of Trump's political rivals. And he asked for it to be public, so that it would politically damage Biden.

sure he was

just like steele did...and made it public

Nope, you're lying. He asked a foreign national to launch an investigation into Biden.

And why am I still waiting for you to show when Hillary took possession of the dossier?

rudy conducted one, and ukraine conducted one

and the clinton campaign hired a foreigner to conduct one

when steele delivered his report

Rudy conducted an investigation? That's a laugh!

Rudy had no official gov't office from which to launch an investigation. He's a private citizen. He has no power to compel testimony under penalty of indictment or perjury.

But you can bet that he dropped President Trump's name at every opportunity as both a potential financial carrot of financial aid and a potential stick of a public rhetorical payback to anyone who decided to willingly climb aboard the Trump bandwagon of an anti-Biden campaign of disinformation.

private citizens can conduct investigations

they do it all the time

​

He was telling President Zelensky what Trump wanted him to say in a public statement in an effort to give the appearance of some kind of corruption which there is no known documentation to support. That's what's known as a smear campaign.

All is fair in love, war, and politics.

 

[Chillicothe]

"What Biden was to insist Shokin be fired, and that is way beyond what could possibly be legal.
Biden should have been prosecuted for that illegal demand."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ummmm, I respectfully demur.

It seems there is this belief that Joe Biden was a lone cowboy on shooting down the Ukrainian prosecutor. That it was some sort of personal vendetta, or merely an attempt to cover his tracks.

Ummmm, noper.

Joe Biden's efforts against prosecutor Shokin were official American policy. He was a spokesman for America (and our European allies.)
That should never be overlooked, minimized, or dismissed.

American diplomats, European diplomats, had been pressuring President Poroshenko to replace Shokin due to the widespread belief he was corrupt and enabling more corruption within Ukraine, which would weaken the country when America and Europe needed a strong Ukraine to be a bulwark against Russia. Nothing was happening with that 'diplomatic' pressure. A bigger voice was needed to get through to Poroshenko and his minions.

So Vice President Joe Biden under the direction of his boss and in consultation and advice from the American State Department and the concurrence of European governments flew to Ukraine and laid it out to Poroshenko.......Shokin goes, or America's $1 billion in aid may go.

Two Republican led Congressional committees eventually......after they'd milked all the scare headlines they possibly could.....well, they concurred: Biden message was the message of the United States of America and Europe. To be sure, Joe most surely agreed with the message, but it wasn't his message. It was America' and our allies message.

Joe Biden did nothing....zero, nada......illegal in his message to Poroshenko.
Joe Biden should and will NOT be prosecuted for his messaging to Poroshenko.


ps.....tactically, Joe likely regrets that he 'personalized' his actions when describing American's quid pro quo of Shokin/$1Billion. Probably a tad boastful that he got done what seasoned diplomats couldn't. But Joe's message to Ukraine was crafted, combed, vetted, and approved and directed by our government. Joe was puffing a bit in explaining it.

 

[Rigby5]

The Steele Dossier was never at all verified, so was irresponsible to release.
It could amount to slander and libel?

{...
The Steele dossier, also known as the Trump–Russia dossier,[1][2][3] is a political opposition research report written from June to December 2016 containing allegations of misconduct, conspiracy, and co-operation between Donald Trump's presidential campaign and the government of Russia prior to and during the 2016 election campaign. The Guardian has described the controversial opposition research[4] as "one of the most explosive documents in modern political history".[5] The dossier, leaked without permission, is an unfinished 35-page compilation of raw intelligence[6] based on information from witting and unwitting anonymous sources known to the author, counterintelligence specialist[7] Christopher Steele,[8] a former head of the Russia Desk for British intelligence (MI6), written for the private investigative firm Fusion GPS. The dossier's 17 reports allege that Trump campaign members and Russian operatives had conspired to co-operate in Russia's election interference to benefit Trump.[9] It also alleges that Russia sought to damage Hillary Clinton's candidacy, including sharing negative information about Clinton with the Trump campaign.[10] The draft dossier was published in full by BuzzFeed News on January 10, 2017,[11] noting that it was unverified.[12] This was done without permission from Orbis Business Intelligence or Steele.[13][14][15][16] Several mainstream media outlets criticized BuzzFeed's decision to publish the reports without verifying their allegations,[17][18] while others defended its decision.[19]

In October 2015, Fusion GPS was contracted by conservative political website The Washington Free Beacon to provide general opposition research on Trump and other Republican presidential candidates. Separately, in April 2016, an attorney for Hillary Clinton's campaign and the Democratic National Committee (DNC) hired Fusion GPS to investigate Trump, while the Free Beacon stopped its backing in May 2016.[8] In June 2016, Fusion GPS subcontracted Steele's firm to compile the dossier. DNC officials denied knowing their attorney had contracted with Fusion GPS, and Steele asserted he was not aware the Clinton campaign was the recipient of his research until months after he contracted with Fusion GPS.[20][21] Following Trump's election as president, funding from Clinton and the DNC ceased, but Steele continued his research and was reportedly paid directly by Fusion GPS co-founder Glenn R. Simpson.[22] While compiling the dossier, Steele passed some of his findings to both British and American intelligence services.[23][24]

The media, the intelligence community, and most experts have treated the dossier with caution due to its unverified allegations, while Trump denounced it as fake news.[25] The U.S. intelligence community took the allegations seriously,[26] and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) investigated every line of the dossier and identified and spoke with at least two of Steele's sources.[27] In January 2017, the primary sub-source said that Steele misstated or exaggerated certain information.[28]
...}

Steele dossier - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[WEATHER53]

Mueller found Trump guilty even though he never said so because you heard him wrong
And
You got him this time

 

[Rigby5]

Rudy was being paid...moreover is an american...he’s allowed to investigate and collect Op Reseach!

Inducing a country to announce an investigation into your opponent isn’t research, it’s interference. And tying that action to improving relations with the US is what makes it illegal.

Biden's actions over Shokin was illegal in my opinion and should be investigated.
Announcing an investigation could be illegal if the investigation was no warranted, but it was warranted and still is, in my opinion.
Tying it to improved relations is not illegal if the investigation is warranted.
In fact, if the investigation is warranted and still not done, I would threaten punitive actions.
Shokin should not have been fired without cause.
Biden should not have been able to get him fired.
That is a cornerstone of civil service.
Getting Shokin fired is about the most corrupt thing anyone can do.
Firing a prosecutor always requires layers of internal investigations that have to be made public to prevent exactly the perceptions of corruption this has.
It was definitely illegal to demand Shokin be fired like that.
Demanding he be investigated would have been the appropriate way instead.

 

[Rigby5]

Burning the flag is a pretty clear indication you don't exactly hold the USA in high regard

Burning the flag is a form of protected speech critical of government policies

BULLSHIT. It is offensive to man, God and country, is not protected by anyone but flag-burners, is fundamentally INCOMPATIBLE with remaining a citizen where you swear your allegiance TO said country, and only an expression of contempt and threat to your country, not at all needed to express ones "critical speech" of government policies. You should be summarily jailed then eventually expelled with your citizenship revoked.

and consistent with the right to petition the government for redress of grievances.

STILL BULLSHIT. One petitions the gov. for redress through our courts, not in the street like an animal burning the very REPRESENTATION of the country you profess to wish redress from.

Such political protest and speech critical of government is the highest form of patriotism and love of country.

THAT belief alone is grounds to consider you a person of suspicion to be closely watched. A person like you is no patriot, obviously has no love of country, you just burned it, and in most any other country would land you in chains. You want to burn something? Make your own sign or something expressing your displeasure and burn that. Better still, get the fuck out.

Flag is not country, and putting symbols like flags above individuals, is be far the worst thing anyone could do to harm a country,
The point of flag burning is to improve the country, so is a VERY patriotic act.
Pretending a country does not need improvement is what is harmful.

ROT. Just as the Bible is not just another book, the flag is not just a piece of cloth. Stomping on a burning flag as you scream hate and contempt for the country is anything but patriotic and will do nothing to improve the country, and the simple proof of that is if burning one flag improves the country a little, then why not burn all flags and really fix it???

YES, we likely should make all flags illegal.
It is never appropriate to put pieces of cloth about the rights of individuals.
Flag waving is about the most dangerous thing anyone could ever do, and it is always a sign of a dictatorship.

 

[Rigby5]

"What Biden was to insist Shokin be fired, and that is way beyond what could possibly be legal.
Biden should have been prosecuted for that illegal demand."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ummmm, I respectfully demur.

It seems there is this belief that Joe Biden was a lone cowboy on shooting down the Ukrainian prosecutor. That it was some sort of personal vendetta, or merely an attempt to cover his tracks.

Ummmm, noper.

Joe Biden's efforts against prosecutor Shokin were official American policy. He was a spokesman for America (and our European allies.)
That should never be overlooked, minimized, or dismissed.

American diplomats, European diplomats, had been pressuring President Poroshenko to replace Shokin due to the widespread belief he was corrupt and enabling more corruption within Ukraine, which would weaken the country when America and Europe needed a strong Ukraine to be a bulwark against Russia. Nothing was happening with that 'diplomatic' pressure. A bigger voice was needed to get through to Poroshenko and his minions.

So Vice President Joe Biden under the direction of his boss and in consultation and advice from the American State Department and the concurrence of European governments flew to Ukraine and laid it out to Poroshenko.......Shokin goes, or America's $1 billion in aid may go.

Two Republican led Congressional committees eventually......after they'd milked all the scare headlines they possibly could.....well, they concurred: Biden message was the message of the United States of America and Europe. To be sure, Joe most surely agreed with the message, but it wasn't his message. It was America' and our allies message.

Joe Biden did nothing....zero, nada......illegal in his message to Poroshenko.
Joe Biden should and will NOT be prosecuted for his messaging to Poroshenko.


ps.....tactically, Joe likely regrets that he 'personalized' his actions when describing American's quid pro quo of Shokin/$1Billion. Probably a tad boastful that he got done what seasoned diplomats couldn't. But Joe's message to Ukraine was crafted, combed, vetted, and approved and directed by our government. Joe was puffing a bit in explaining it.

That is wrong.
Biden may not have been the source and was only the messenger, but he should have known better.
The one making the demand by passing the message is the one who is breaking the law.
Shokin is a legally protected civil servant.
The fact they fired him without any sort of investigation shows the whole Ukraine is totally corrupt.
Anyone associated with the firing of Shokin should be prosecuted.

 

[Rigby5]

As far as Rudy is concerned, he wasn't asking the Ukrainians to make any probe of the Bidens public because there's no evidence that there was any investigation, and even if there WAS an investigation of the Bidens, Rudy had no standing and no right to receive official Ukrainian records because he is a foreigner. But that wasn't what Rudy was doing. He was telling President Zelensky what Trump wanted him to say in a public statement in an effort to give the appearance of some kind of corruption which there is no known documentation to support. That's what's known as a smear campaign.

Wrong.
There was evidence of wrong doing by Biden.
There was Biden himself claiming he illegally got a civil servant terminated without recourse to the defense a civil servant is legally entitled to, and Biden admitted it was the illegal extortion of withholding money and weapons that he used to do it with.
Rudy did not want to receive private records, but wanted a public investigation.
That is not only legal, but was what Shokin was required to get as protection in civil servant job.
You seem to keep forgetting it is illegal to just fire a civil servant like Shokin.

 

[Rigby5]

Then why did Trump & Giuliani try to get them to publicly open an investigation? What did he hope to gain?

they didn’t. ruby just wanted them to acknowledge what they were already doin

You're lying again. It's a shame you can't stop lying.

Ukraine was not investigating Joe Biden. Had they been, Giuliani wouldn't have asked them to start one...

"And all we need… all we need from the President is to say: I'm gonna put an honest prosecutor in charge..."​

If truth and reality were on your side, you wouldn't have to lie like ya do.

So again I ask, since you lied to avoid answering the first time -- why did Trump & Giuliani try to get them to publicly open an investigation? What did he hope to gain?

The obvious answer is to get Shokin reinstated.
It is illegal to fire Shokin without proven cause,
As a civil servant, you can't legally fire him without proof in a legal hearing.
Biden violated the law by demanding the illegal firing of a civil servant without regard for the rights of the civil servant, and using financial extortion over US aid.

 

[Faun]

I am far left and do not like Trump, but Biden SHOULD be investigated for what happened in the Ukraine!
It was illegal for Biden to insist Shokin be fired.
{...
Oct 03, 2019 · Biden has boasted about his role in getting Shokin fired. During a 2018 speech at the Council on Foreign Relations, he said he withheld $1 billion in loan guarantees for Ukraine
… }
Rudi is on safe legal grounds for asking for an investigation of Biden, as long as there was implication of a threat to withhold funds if the results were not like what Rudi wanted, like Biden did.
What Biden was to insist Shokin be fired, and that is way beyond what could possibly be legal.
Biden should have been prosecuted for that illegal demand.

There was no active investigation into Burisma so Joe didn't push Poroshenko's hand into firing Shokin. Meaning J'Biden didn't bribe Poroshenko to benefit his son, Hunter.

This was already known and publicized -- but reaffirmed by Rudy Giuliani himself in his phone call with Volker (who testified about this) and Yermak...

"So that investigation of Burisma has been started, discontinued… started and discontinued about three times."
~ Rudy Giuliani, Attorney for Trump​

Thanks, Rudy! You cleared Biden AND sunk yourself all in one phone call, gift wrapped with a bow. And what you didn't finish off, Lev and Igor will finish off. Say hi to Michael Cohen if ya get the chance.

 

[Faun]

Biden voters are pathetic.

AND most importantly,hate America

Nope. Biden voters are patriots and for the most part have better manners than Trump hardliners.. That's why only 35% of the Republicans still back Trump..

90% of Republicans back Trump, you lying moron.

Here are some example of the manners of Biden voters:

Best evidence I've seen so far of a real insurrection, masked thugs attacking federal buildings with circular saws, mototov cocktails, and burned American flags.

Burning the flag is a pretty clear indication you don't exactly hold the USA in high regard and should make you considered an enemy of the state and put on an FBI watch list.

Burning the flag is legal.

Patriotic Americans don't do it. Only commie traitors do it.

Assclowns such as BriFuk should stay home and shaddup -
Or move to Belarus .. Understand It’s loverly this time of year.
If you assholes are all into autocracies?
Go for it - but LEAVE & let normal folk alone

You believe you're normal? Licking Biden's A-hole doesn't make you normal, moron.

Have you had your fill of Dear leader’s poop chute yet?

That's about all we've gotten from Joe so far, his ass and contents therein. Just because YOU like it up in there doesn't mean the rest of the country does!

Spoiler

Tough shit

 

[Faun]

Burning the flag is a pretty clear indication you don't exactly hold the USA in high regard

Burning the flag is a form of protected speech critical of government policies

BULLSHIT. It is offensive to man, God and country, is not protected by anyone but flag-burners, is fundamentally INCOMPATIBLE with remaining a citizen where you swear your allegiance TO said country, and only an expression of contempt and threat to your country, not at all needed to express ones "critical speech" of government policies. You should be summarily jailed then eventually expelled with your citizenship revoked.

and consistent with the right to petition the government for redress of grievances.

STILL BULLSHIT. One petitions the gov. for redress through our courts, not in the street like an animal burning the very REPRESENTATION of the country you profess to wish redress from.

Such political protest and speech critical of government is the highest form of patriotism and love of country.

THAT belief alone is grounds to consider you a person of suspicion to be closely watched. A person like you is no patriot, obviously has no love of country, you just burned it, and in most any other country would land you in chains. You want to burn something? Make your own sign or something expressing your displeasure and burn that. Better still, get the fuck out.

Flag is not country, and putting symbols like flags above individuals, is be far the worst thing anyone could do to harm a country,
The point of flag burning is to improve the country, so is a VERY patriotic act.
Pretending a country does not need improvement is what is harmful.

ROT. Just as the Bible is not just another book, the flag is not just a piece of cloth. Stomping on a burning flag as you scream hate and contempt for the country is anything but patriotic and will do nothing to improve the country, and the simple proof of that is if burning one flag improves the country a little, then why not burn all flags and really fix it???

Wrong actually. The American flag was designed to beat cops within an inch of their lives.
Where ya been?

Arkansas man accused of beating Capitol police officer with American flag during riot

According to court documents, two acquaintances identified Peter Francis Stager in multiple videos on Twitter.

www.wmcactionnews5.com

^ perfect

C'mon, that's just part of the Capitol tourist attraction, don'tcha know?

 

[Faun]

Then why did Trump & Giuliani try to get them to publicly open an investigation? What did he hope to gain?

they didn’t. ruby just wanted them to acknowledge what they were already doin

You're lying again. It's a shame you can't stop lying.

Ukraine was not investigating Joe Biden. Had they been, Giuliani wouldn't have asked them to start one...

"And all we need… all we need from the President is to say: I'm gonna put an honest prosecutor in charge..."​

If truth and reality were on your side, you wouldn't have to lie like ya do.

So again I ask, since you lied to avoid answering the first time -- why did Trump & Giuliani try to get them to publicly open an investigation? What did he hope to gain?

The obvious answer is to get Shokin reinstated.
It is illegal to fire Shokin without proven cause,
As a civil servant, you can't legally fire him without proof in a legal hearing.
Biden violated the law by demanding the illegal firing of a civil servant without regard for the rights of the civil servant, and using financial extortion over US aid.

That makes zero sense. Giuliani had nothing to gain by Shokin being reinstated. Furthermore, that phone call came more than 3 years after Shokin was sacked. Poroshenko, Shokin's personal friend who tried to keep Shokin in office, was no longer president and had already been replaced by Zelensky who would have had no reason to bring Shokin back given he ran on cleaning up government; not reinstalling shady figures like Shokin.

 

[struth]

Rudy was being paid...moreover is an american...he’s allowed to investigate and collect Op Reseach!

Inducing a country to announce an investigation into your opponent isn’t research, it’s interference. And tying that action to improving relations with the US is what makes it illegal.

what are they interfering in? it’s merely asking

there is not big illegal about making sure a country that is getting aid is also committed to rooting out. corruption

 

[basquebromance]

the only downside to Trump is i'll never vote for another politician again

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

Burning the flag is a pretty clear indication you don't exactly hold the USA in high regard

Burning the flag is a form of protected speech critical of government policies

BULLSHIT. It is offensive to man, God and country, is not protected by anyone but flag-burners, is fundamentally INCOMPATIBLE with remaining a citizen where you swear your allegiance TO said country, and only an expression of contempt and threat to your country, not at all needed to express ones "critical speech" of government policies. You should be summarily jailed then eventually expelled with your citizenship revoked.

and consistent with the right to petition the government for redress of grievances.

STILL BULLSHIT. One petitions the gov. for redress through our courts, not in the street like an animal burning the very REPRESENTATION of the country you profess to wish redress from.

Such political protest and speech critical of government is the highest form of patriotism and love of country.

THAT belief alone is grounds to consider you a person of suspicion to be closely watched. A person like you is no patriot, obviously has no love of country, you just burned it, and in most any other country would land you in chains. You want to burn something? Make your own sign or something expressing your displeasure and burn that. Better still, get the fuck out.

Flag is not country, and putting symbols like flags above individuals, is be far the worst thing anyone could do to harm a country,
The point of flag burning is to improve the country, so is a VERY patriotic act.
Pretending a country does not need improvement is what is harmful.

ROT. Just as the Bible is not just another book, the flag is not just a piece of cloth. Stomping on a burning flag as you scream hate and contempt for the country is anything but patriotic and will do nothing to improve the country, and the simple proof of that is if burning one flag improves the country a little, then why not burn all flags and really fix it???

Hey Freaky. Newsflash. You do know how a flag is supposed to be properly disposed of, right? (hint, it's not put through the shredder or tossed into a landfill). It always amazes me how you alt-righters get your panties in a twist. Burning the flag in protest has been a protected form of speech for decades. But, once again, right wingers only care about symbols. Not substance...or policy.

 

[colfax_m]

Rudy was being paid...moreover is an american...he’s allowed to investigate and collect Op Reseach!

Inducing a country to announce an investigation into your opponent isn’t research, it’s interference. And tying that action to improving relations with the US is what makes it illegal.

what are they interfering in? it’s merely asking

there is not big illegal about making sure a country that is getting aid is also committed to rooting out. corruption

Clearly announcing a corruption investigation into a politician would be determinantal to their campaign. Trump knew this. Giuliani knew this.

Giuliani was not ever part of the Trump administration. He was a part of the campaign. Mixing campaigns and governance is illegal.

 

[colfax_m]

Biden's actions over Shokin was illegal in my opinion and should be investigated.

Great. Then get the DoJ involved. Sending your campaign members to do it is illegal.

Shokin was fired for cause and even if he wasn’t, it’s a political appointment and no cause is needed to fire him.

 

[Chillicothe]

It was definitely illegal to demand Shokin be fired like that.
Demanding he be investigated would have been the appropriate way instead.

The one making the demand by passing the message is the one who is breaking the law.
Shokin is a legally protected civil servant.
The fact they fired him without any sort of investigation shows the whole Ukraine is totally corrupt.
Anyone associated with the firing of Shokin should be prosecuted.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Poster, it appears you wish to graft onto Ukrainian law and custom the American & western European custom of civil service protection. This doesn't apply here.

First, Poroshenko had been communicated with about Shokin's corruption----insistently --- by European diplomats and American diplomats. The message was..."We believe Shokin is a problem. You know Shokin is a problem. His corruption is weakening your state. Get rid of him."

But he stayed, despite the widespread belief he was threatening various Ukrainian people or parties with prosecution unless they paid a bribe. There were street protests by Ukrainian citizens demanding the firing of Shokin.

So, as an official American policy........ Joe Biden was dispatched to Poroshenko with the official American message: "We ain't gonna keep pouring money into your country if it will be used by people like Shokin. Capiche'?"

Joe Biden was functioning as an American Uber Diplomat.

Finally, Poroshenko got the message, but punted. And he let the Parliment be the ones to fire his friend.

"In July 2015, shortly after his appointment, reformist minority member Yehor Soboliev advanced a motion to dismiss Shokin for corruption, gaining 127 of the required 150 signatures including several members of the ruling parties.[54] Representatives of the EU and the United States pressed Poroshenko for his removal,[2] as did the World Bank and International Monetary Fund.[3]

In March 2016 the Ukrainian Parliament voted overwhelmingly to remove Shokin, a decision which was welcomed by the EU.[55] (Wicki)