New Audio Evidence of Trump & Giuliani Corruption and Official Misconduct

[Faun]

What would Rudy gain from that?

Because I am sure he wanted Trump to win....I mean really...geez...

Thanks for finally admitting that.

And that's a crime.

sorry....maybe in leftist totalarian states it's a crime to want someone other then your party's nominee to win, but it's not in the United States

You said Trump's 2020 campaign would gain from Ukraine investigating Biden. That's a crime. Not in "leftist totalarian states," in any state. It's a violation of federal law.

Lock him up!

 

[Faun]

"Xiden withheld money from the country until they canned the guy looking into his son’s corrupt company"

Really?​

Poster Struth you still haven't found the clue?
At this point I, for one, question your sincerity in this discussion.
It appears to be either trolling for trolling sakes.....or........willful ignorance.

There have been several posts on this thread explaining the whys and whyfor's of this kerfuffle.
And yet you persist.

Joe Biden didn't have the authority as merely the Vice President to withhold such monies.
He did have the authority...directly given to him by his boss after consultation with the State Department and European governments.....to carry their message to the Ukrainian president.
Which, he did.

It is how international diplomacy works. Duh!
If one's regular corps of diplomats is unable to make progress on an issue our nation feels is against our interest, well, you then send in a bigger gun.....a Secretary of one department or another, maybe one of the Joint Chiefs, maybe a top general, an important business leader.....or you can send in a Vice President who is long experienced in America's foreign relations .

You do all of that as "official American policy".
Duh!

he’s on TV bragging about how he did it

not sure why or how someone from Europe would have authority to do that...

Bragging about getting a corrupt prosecutor, who wouldn't prosecute, fired.

That was a fine accomplishment and not at all the crime you couldn't even properly identify.

Conservatives would love corrupt prosecutors because then they'd be able to prosecute their political opponents just like Putin does.

After all, when conservatives yelled "lock her (Hillary) up," it was more than rhetorical flourish. They really wanted it to happen.

Remember when the Obama DOJ went after GOP rising star Bob McDonnell? Only to have the SCOTUS overturn that conviction?

Remember when Xiden, Obama and the Obamagate gang colluded in the Oval Office to undermine the Trump admin, and go after Flynn? Only to finally have the Brady evidence released that exonerated him?

Yeah...I could go on....

The prosecution of McDonnell AND his wife was righteous.

From Wikipedia

[On January 21, 2014, McDonnell and his wife were indicted on federal corruption charges. The charges followed a months-long federal investigation into gifts McDonnell received from a political donor.[214][215] They were charged with fourteen different counts relating to their acceptance of more than $135,000 in gifts, including a Rolex watch, loans, trips and other items from Jonnie Williams Sr., former CEO of Star Scientific, a company developing a compound called anatabine as a dietary supplement and as a drug.]

The SC did not overturn the conviction. The SC vacated (unanimously, I should add) the guilty verdict on the technicality that the term "official act" was too broad, but they left open the option to retry McConnell on a more restrictive definition of the term.

As for Flynn, he pled guilty. Later on, he changed lawyers and withdrew his guilty plea. While his sentencing hearing was postponed. Barr's DOJ decided to drop the charges after President Trump called for the charges to be dropped. Frankly, it's unprecedented for a president to publicly interfere in any prosecution of his own Justice Dept,, and it looks even worse considering that Flynn was a political supporter. Additionally, Trump has repeatedly granted pardons or clemency to his political supporters even after they've pled guilty or been convicted which basically comes down to a license to commit crimes and escape punishment even after being caught and tried for their crimes. Roger Stone and Paul Manafort immediately come to mind.

What I know is this: If Obama had ever done anything like this for political supporters who had been tried and convicted, conservatives would be screaming bloody murder, but you guys fully support these pardons. That tells me that right versus wrong, and legal versus illegal conduct don't mean anything to conservatives, and conservatives' claims to having conservative principles is utter nonsense. That's because you don't care about crimes if and when they're committed by conservatives for conservative causes, and you're fine with them getting away with it too.

As for me, if crimes are committed by anyone, regardless of political affiliation, or if any politician is guilty of corruption, I'm perfectly fine with a prosecution and imprisonment.

That means >I< have real principles and conservatives have no principles.

yeah it was so rightous the SCOTUS overturned it...geez

Flynn withdrew his plea after he got new lawyers, and was awaiting sentencing, when those new lawyers were able to push and push, and finally the Mueller team released the brady evidence clearing him

Yes, Trump gave pardons or clemancy to political friends...sure...so has every other President.

Flynn was never cleared. He was forgiven by a pardon but until then, he was still a convicted felon.

 

[struth]

What would Rudy gain from that?

Because I am sure he wanted Trump to win....I mean really...geez...

Thanks for finally admitting that.

And that's a crime.

sorry....maybe in leftist totalarian states it's a crime to want someone other then your party's nominee to win, but it's not in the United States

You said Trump's 2020 campaign would gain from Ukraine investigating Biden. That's a crime. Not in "leftist totalarian states," in any state. It's a violation of federal law.

Lock him up!

hahaha it’s no crime to benefit from someone conducting an investigation of possible corruption! haha are you insane?

 

[struth]

"Xiden withheld money from the country until they canned the guy looking into his son’s corrupt company"

Really?​

Poster Struth you still haven't found the clue?
At this point I, for one, question your sincerity in this discussion.
It appears to be either trolling for trolling sakes.....or........willful ignorance.

There have been several posts on this thread explaining the whys and whyfor's of this kerfuffle.
And yet you persist.

Joe Biden didn't have the authority as merely the Vice President to withhold such monies.
He did have the authority...directly given to him by his boss after consultation with the State Department and European governments.....to carry their message to the Ukrainian president.
Which, he did.

It is how international diplomacy works. Duh!
If one's regular corps of diplomats is unable to make progress on an issue our nation feels is against our interest, well, you then send in a bigger gun.....a Secretary of one department or another, maybe one of the Joint Chiefs, maybe a top general, an important business leader.....or you can send in a Vice President who is long experienced in America's foreign relations .

You do all of that as "official American policy".
Duh!

he’s on TV bragging about how he did it

not sure why or how someone from Europe would have authority to do that...

Bragging about getting a corrupt prosecutor, who wouldn't prosecute, fired.

That was a fine accomplishment and not at all the crime you couldn't even properly identify.

Conservatives would love corrupt prosecutors because then they'd be able to prosecute their political opponents just like Putin does.

After all, when conservatives yelled "lock her (Hillary) up," it was more than rhetorical flourish. They really wanted it to happen.

Remember when the Obama DOJ went after GOP rising star Bob McDonnell? Only to have the SCOTUS overturn that conviction?

Remember when Xiden, Obama and the Obamagate gang colluded in the Oval Office to undermine the Trump admin, and go after Flynn? Only to finally have the Brady evidence released that exonerated him?

Yeah...I could go on....

The prosecution of McDonnell AND his wife was righteous.

From Wikipedia

[On January 21, 2014, McDonnell and his wife were indicted on federal corruption charges. The charges followed a months-long federal investigation into gifts McDonnell received from a political donor.[214][215] They were charged with fourteen different counts relating to their acceptance of more than $135,000 in gifts, including a Rolex watch, loans, trips and other items from Jonnie Williams Sr., former CEO of Star Scientific, a company developing a compound called anatabine as a dietary supplement and as a drug.]

The SC did not overturn the conviction. The SC vacated (unanimously, I should add) the guilty verdict on the technicality that the term "official act" was too broad, but they left open the option to retry McConnell on a more restrictive definition of the term.

As for Flynn, he pled guilty. Later on, he changed lawyers and withdrew his guilty plea. While his sentencing hearing was postponed. Barr's DOJ decided to drop the charges after President Trump called for the charges to be dropped. Frankly, it's unprecedented for a president to publicly interfere in any prosecution of his own Justice Dept,, and it looks even worse considering that Flynn was a political supporter. Additionally, Trump has repeatedly granted pardons or clemency to his political supporters even after they've pled guilty or been convicted which basically comes down to a license to commit crimes and escape punishment even after being caught and tried for their crimes. Roger Stone and Paul Manafort immediately come to mind.

What I know is this: If Obama had ever done anything like this for political supporters who had been tried and convicted, conservatives would be screaming bloody murder, but you guys fully support these pardons. That tells me that right versus wrong, and legal versus illegal conduct don't mean anything to conservatives, and conservatives' claims to having conservative principles is utter nonsense. That's because you don't care about crimes if and when they're committed by conservatives for conservative causes, and you're fine with them getting away with it too.

As for me, if crimes are committed by anyone, regardless of political affiliation, or if any politician is guilty of corruption, I'm perfectly fine with a prosecution and imprisonment.

That means >I< have real principles and conservatives have no principles.

yeah it was so rightous the SCOTUS overturned it...geez

Flynn withdrew his plea after he got new lawyers, and was awaiting sentencing, when those new lawyers were able to push and push, and finally the Mueller team released the brady evidence clearing him

Yes, Trump gave pardons or clemancy to political friends...sure...so has every other President.

Flynn was never cleared. He was forgiven by a pardon but until then, he was still a convicted felon.

ah the DOJ motion to dismiss clears him

and the brady evidence makes clear the Obamagate gang did it all to weaponize the doj against a political rival.

 

[Faun]

Rudy was being paid...moreover is an american...he’s allowed to investigate and collect Op Reseach!

Inducing a country to announce an investigation into your opponent isn’t research, it’s interference. And tying that action to improving relations with the US is what makes it illegal.

what are they interfering in? it’s merely asking

there is not big illegal about making sure a country that is getting aid is also committed to rooting out. corruption

Clearly announcing a corruption investigation into a politician would be determinantal to their campaign. Trump knew this. Giuliani knew this.

Giuliani was not ever part of the Trump administration. He was a part of the campaign. Mixing campaigns and governance is illegal.

well you’d think but you all were aware of his corruption and still voted for him

We were well aware of the Trump administration and campaigns attempt to smear Biden. We also found out that the allegations were nonsense through the process of impeachment.

If there were sufficient grounds for an investigation, the DoJ would have done so. It’s not the role of the Trump campaign to do so.

of course he was running against him....

but smear? i mean a smear is the “parody” impeachment, or the russian conspiracy hoax...a smear isn’t simply talking about the facts behind the bidens ties to a corrupt company

Again, the question you don't want to answer...

What was Giuliani to gain by getting Ukraine to open an investigation into Biden?

just the world to know they were committed to the process

LOLOL

Utter nonsense. Giuliani had nothing to gain by that. The Trump campaign for the 2020 election was the only party who would gain from that.

of course they would have..not sure what your point is

What would Rudy gain from that?ou w

Because I am sure he wanted Trump to win....I mean really...geez...I suppose the same thing Clinton gained from having Steele ask people questions and do whatever he did....

Bingo. Rudy wanted Trump to win. It was political.

sure he wanted him to win. I don’t think the Bidens corruption was political it was just about getting rich

Sadly, just as you're incapable of understanding what blackmail is, rendering you incapable of proving it occurred -- you're equally incapable of understanding what what was corrupt on Biden's part, rendering you incapable of proving he acted corruptly.

I suppose not in the traditional sense...extortion is a better term here...good point

Not in any sense. You really have no idea what blackmail is.

Blackmail is threatening to reveal something harmful to someone unless they give in to specified demands.

Either you can say what Biden was threatening to reveal that was harmful to Poroshenko or you reveal what I've been saying is 100% true -- you don't know what blackmail is.

Which is it?

 

[Faun]

What would Rudy gain from that?

Because I am sure he wanted Trump to win....I mean really...geez...

Thanks for finally admitting that.

And that's a crime.

sorry....maybe in leftist totalarian states it's a crime to want someone other then your party's nominee to win, but it's not in the United States

You said Trump's 2020 campaign would gain from Ukraine investigating Biden. That's a crime. Not in "leftist totalarian states," in any state. It's a violation of federal law.

Lock him up!

hahaha it’s no crime to benefit from someone conducting an investigation of possible corruption! haha are you insane?

Depends on the circumstances. In this case, it was beneficial to a political campaign and the aid would have come from a foreign national. That's a crime. I even showed you the law which shows it's a crime.

Lock him up!

 

[struth]

Rudy was being paid...moreover is an american...he’s allowed to investigate and collect Op Reseach!

Inducing a country to announce an investigation into your opponent isn’t research, it’s interference. And tying that action to improving relations with the US is what makes it illegal.

what are they interfering in? it’s merely asking

there is not big illegal about making sure a country that is getting aid is also committed to rooting out. corruption

Clearly announcing a corruption investigation into a politician would be determinantal to their campaign. Trump knew this. Giuliani knew this.

Giuliani was not ever part of the Trump administration. He was a part of the campaign. Mixing campaigns and governance is illegal.

well you’d think but you all were aware of his corruption and still voted for him

We were well aware of the Trump administration and campaigns attempt to smear Biden. We also found out that the allegations were nonsense through the process of impeachment.

If there were sufficient grounds for an investigation, the DoJ would have done so. It’s not the role of the Trump campaign to do so.

of course he was running against him....

but smear? i mean a smear is the “parody” impeachment, or the russian conspiracy hoax...a smear isn’t simply talking about the facts behind the bidens ties to a corrupt company

Again, the question you don't want to answer...

What was Giuliani to gain by getting Ukraine to open an investigation into Biden?

just the world to know they were committed to the process

LOLOL

Utter nonsense. Giuliani had nothing to gain by that. The Trump campaign for the 2020 election was the only party who would gain from that.

of course they would have..not sure what your point is

What would Rudy gain from that?ou w

Because I am sure he wanted Trump to win....I mean really...geez...I suppose the same thing Clinton gained from having Steele ask people questions and do whatever he did....

Bingo. Rudy wanted Trump to win. It was political.

sure he wanted him to win. I don’t think the Bidens corruption was political it was just about getting rich

Sadly, just as you're incapable of understanding what blackmail is, rendering you incapable of proving it occurred -- you're equally incapable of understanding what what was corrupt on Biden's part, rendering you incapable of proving he acted corruptly.

I suppose not in the traditional sense...extortion is a better term here...good point

Not in any sense. You really have no idea what blackmail is.

Blackmail is threatening to reveal something harmful to someone unless they give in to specified demands.

Either you can say what Biden was threatening to reveal that was harmful to Poroshenko or you reveal what I've been saying is 100% true -- you don't know what blackmail is.

Which is it?

yeah it’s more extortion...good point

 

[colfax_m]

Rudy was being paid...moreover is an american...he’s allowed to investigate and collect Op Reseach!

Inducing a country to announce an investigation into your opponent isn’t research, it’s interference. And tying that action to improving relations with the US is what makes it illegal.

what are they interfering in? it’s merely asking

there is not big illegal about making sure a country that is getting aid is also committed to rooting out. corruption

Clearly announcing a corruption investigation into a politician would be determinantal to their campaign. Trump knew this. Giuliani knew this.

Giuliani was not ever part of the Trump administration. He was a part of the campaign. Mixing campaigns and governance is illegal.

well you’d think but you all were aware of his corruption and still voted for him

We were well aware of the Trump administration and campaigns attempt to smear Biden. We also found out that the allegations were nonsense through the process of impeachment.

If there were sufficient grounds for an investigation, the DoJ would have done so. It’s not the role of the Trump campaign to do so.

of course he was running against him....

but smear? i mean a smear is the “parody” impeachment, or the russian conspiracy hoax...a smear isn’t simply talking about the facts behind the bidens ties to a corrupt company

Again, the question you don't want to answer...

What was Giuliani to gain by getting Ukraine to open an investigation into Biden?

just the world to know they were committed to the process

LOLOL

Utter nonsense. Giuliani had nothing to gain by that. The Trump campaign for the 2020 election was the only party who would gain from that.

of course they would have..not sure what your point is

What would Rudy gain from that?ou w

Because I am sure he wanted Trump to win....I mean really...geez...I suppose the same thing Clinton gained from having Steele ask people questions and do whatever he did....

Bingo. Rudy wanted Trump to win. It was political.

sure he wanted him to win. I don’t think the Bidens corruption was political it was just about getting rich

When you start mixing political motivations with governmental policy, it’s a bad thing.

Using US foreign policy to go after your political opponent to win an election is corruption.

 

[struth]

What would Rudy gain from that?

Because I am sure he wanted Trump to win....I mean really...geez...

Thanks for finally admitting that.

And that's a crime.

sorry....maybe in leftist totalarian states it's a crime to want someone other then your party's nominee to win, but it's not in the United States

You said Trump's 2020 campaign would gain from Ukraine investigating Biden. That's a crime. Not in "leftist totalarian states," in any state. It's a violation of federal law.

Lock him up!

hahaha it’s no crime to benefit from someone conducting an investigation of possible corruption! haha are you insane?

Depends on the circumstances. In this case, it was beneficial to a political campaign and the aid would have come from a foreign national. That's a crime. I even showed you the law which shows it's a crime.

Lock him up!

hahaaa it’s no crime even for a political campaign!

do you really think that when someone simply runs for office they are immune from any sort of investigation?? geez

 

[Faun]

"Xiden withheld money from the country until they canned the guy looking into his son’s corrupt company"

Really?​

Poster Struth you still haven't found the clue?
At this point I, for one, question your sincerity in this discussion.
It appears to be either trolling for trolling sakes.....or........willful ignorance.

There have been several posts on this thread explaining the whys and whyfor's of this kerfuffle.
And yet you persist.

Joe Biden didn't have the authority as merely the Vice President to withhold such monies.
He did have the authority...directly given to him by his boss after consultation with the State Department and European governments.....to carry their message to the Ukrainian president.
Which, he did.

It is how international diplomacy works. Duh!
If one's regular corps of diplomats is unable to make progress on an issue our nation feels is against our interest, well, you then send in a bigger gun.....a Secretary of one department or another, maybe one of the Joint Chiefs, maybe a top general, an important business leader.....or you can send in a Vice President who is long experienced in America's foreign relations .

You do all of that as "official American policy".
Duh!

he’s on TV bragging about how he did it

not sure why or how someone from Europe would have authority to do that...

Bragging about getting a corrupt prosecutor, who wouldn't prosecute, fired.

That was a fine accomplishment and not at all the crime you couldn't even properly identify.

Conservatives would love corrupt prosecutors because then they'd be able to prosecute their political opponents just like Putin does.

After all, when conservatives yelled "lock her (Hillary) up," it was more than rhetorical flourish. They really wanted it to happen.

Remember when the Obama DOJ went after GOP rising star Bob McDonnell? Only to have the SCOTUS overturn that conviction?

Remember when Xiden, Obama and the Obamagate gang colluded in the Oval Office to undermine the Trump admin, and go after Flynn? Only to finally have the Brady evidence released that exonerated him?

Yeah...I could go on....

The prosecution of McDonnell AND his wife was righteous.

From Wikipedia

[On January 21, 2014, McDonnell and his wife were indicted on federal corruption charges. The charges followed a months-long federal investigation into gifts McDonnell received from a political donor.[214][215] They were charged with fourteen different counts relating to their acceptance of more than $135,000 in gifts, including a Rolex watch, loans, trips and other items from Jonnie Williams Sr., former CEO of Star Scientific, a company developing a compound called anatabine as a dietary supplement and as a drug.]

The SC did not overturn the conviction. The SC vacated (unanimously, I should add) the guilty verdict on the technicality that the term "official act" was too broad, but they left open the option to retry McConnell on a more restrictive definition of the term.

As for Flynn, he pled guilty. Later on, he changed lawyers and withdrew his guilty plea. While his sentencing hearing was postponed. Barr's DOJ decided to drop the charges after President Trump called for the charges to be dropped. Frankly, it's unprecedented for a president to publicly interfere in any prosecution of his own Justice Dept,, and it looks even worse considering that Flynn was a political supporter. Additionally, Trump has repeatedly granted pardons or clemency to his political supporters even after they've pled guilty or been convicted which basically comes down to a license to commit crimes and escape punishment even after being caught and tried for their crimes. Roger Stone and Paul Manafort immediately come to mind.

What I know is this: If Obama had ever done anything like this for political supporters who had been tried and convicted, conservatives would be screaming bloody murder, but you guys fully support these pardons. That tells me that right versus wrong, and legal versus illegal conduct don't mean anything to conservatives, and conservatives' claims to having conservative principles is utter nonsense. That's because you don't care about crimes if and when they're committed by conservatives for conservative causes, and you're fine with them getting away with it too.

As for me, if crimes are committed by anyone, regardless of political affiliation, or if any politician is guilty of corruption, I'm perfectly fine with a prosecution and imprisonment.

That means >I< have real principles and conservatives have no principles.

yeah it was so rightous the SCOTUS overturned it...geez

Flynn withdrew his plea after he got new lawyers, and was awaiting sentencing, when those new lawyers were able to push and push, and finally the Mueller team released the brady evidence clearing him

Yes, Trump gave pardons or clemancy to political friends...sure...so has every other President.

Flynn was never cleared. He was forgiven by a pardon but until then, he was still a convicted felon.

ah the DOJ motion to dismiss clears him

and the brady evidence makes clear the Obamagate gang did it all to weaponize the doj against a political rival.

That motion did no such thing since his legal status was still a conviction and the court had not dismissed the case when he was pardon.

He was a convicted felon when he was pardoned. You should know that since it should go without saying -- if he wasn't a convicted felon, he wouldn't have needed a pardon.

 

[Faun]

What would Rudy gain from that?

Because I am sure he wanted Trump to win....I mean really...geez...

Thanks for finally admitting that.

And that's a crime.

sorry....maybe in leftist totalarian states it's a crime to want someone other then your party's nominee to win, but it's not in the United States

You said Trump's 2020 campaign would gain from Ukraine investigating Biden. That's a crime. Not in "leftist totalarian states," in any state. It's a violation of federal law.

Lock him up!

hahaha it’s no crime to benefit from someone conducting an investigation of possible corruption! haha are you insane?

Depends on the circumstances. In this case, it was beneficial to a political campaign and the aid would have come from a foreign national. That's a crime. I even showed you the law which shows it's a crime.

Lock him up!

hahaaa it’s no crime even for a political campaign!

do you really think that when someone simply runs for office they are immune from any sort of investigation?? geez

I see you're as ignorant about the law as you are about the meaning of blackmail.

Oh well, probably still above your head, but here it is again anyway...

§30121 Contributions and donations by foreign nationals

(a) Prohibition

It shall be unlawful for-

(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make-

(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;

(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or

(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or​

(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.​

​

Lock him up!

 

[Faun]

Rudy was being paid...moreover is an american...he’s allowed to investigate and collect Op Reseach!

Inducing a country to announce an investigation into your opponent isn’t research, it’s interference. And tying that action to improving relations with the US is what makes it illegal.

what are they interfering in? it’s merely asking

there is not big illegal about making sure a country that is getting aid is also committed to rooting out. corruption

Clearly announcing a corruption investigation into a politician would be determinantal to their campaign. Trump knew this. Giuliani knew this.

Giuliani was not ever part of the Trump administration. He was a part of the campaign. Mixing campaigns and governance is illegal.

well you’d think but you all were aware of his corruption and still voted for him

We were well aware of the Trump administration and campaigns attempt to smear Biden. We also found out that the allegations were nonsense through the process of impeachment.

If there were sufficient grounds for an investigation, the DoJ would have done so. It’s not the role of the Trump campaign to do so.

of course he was running against him....

but smear? i mean a smear is the “parody” impeachment, or the russian conspiracy hoax...a smear isn’t simply talking about the facts behind the bidens ties to a corrupt company

Again, the question you don't want to answer...

What was Giuliani to gain by getting Ukraine to open an investigation into Biden?

just the world to know they were committed to the process

LOLOL

Utter nonsense. Giuliani had nothing to gain by that. The Trump campaign for the 2020 election was the only party who would gain from that.

of course they would have..not sure what your point is

What would Rudy gain from that?ou w

Because I am sure he wanted Trump to win....I mean really...geez...I suppose the same thing Clinton gained from having Steele ask people questions and do whatever he did....

Bingo. Rudy wanted Trump to win. It was political.

sure he wanted him to win. I don’t think the Bidens corruption was political it was just about getting rich

Sadly, just as you're incapable of understanding what blackmail is, rendering you incapable of proving it occurred -- you're equally incapable of understanding what what was corrupt on Biden's part, rendering you incapable of proving he acted corruptly.

I suppose not in the traditional sense...extortion is a better term here...good point

Not in any sense. You really have no idea what blackmail is.

Blackmail is threatening to reveal something harmful to someone unless they give in to specified demands.

Either you can say what Biden was threatening to reveal that was harmful to Poroshenko or you reveal what I've been saying is 100% true -- you don't know what blackmail is.

Which is it?

yeah it’s more extortion...good point

Thanks for admitting you are ignorant of blackmail too.

That aside, it's not extortion either. Extortion is getting something by force of blackmail, bribery or force. To be extortion, Biden would have had to get something out of it. He got nothing.

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

A reminder for the umpteenth time folks, taxes upon the wealthy and corporations always find a way to "trickle down" and be paid by we "smaller folks" whom are the final end consumers of the goods and services that might be provided by the investments and industry of the wealthier corporations and persons.

"The Wealthy" don't bury their wealth in coffee cans in their backyards. Such "wealth" gets reinvested into other businesses and factories providing jobs along with market value "goods and services", hence seeding economic growth. That "wealth/money" is used to grow/generate more "wealth/money".

Excess and mis-directed "taxation" only hinders and slows further wealth growth and increase, so in the long run tends to be counter productive and detrimental.

Try not being so envious of others whom have been more energetic, smarter, industrious than you and look for how to copy/emulate what they do/did to play your own role in wealth creation.

The more one makes, the more they have to share as they see fit.

No...they don't. The money these businesses and people save goes straight into sheltered offshore accounts and stock buybacks. After four decades of trickle down economics, we can say simply, "it doesn't work".

Many Republican voters agree with Biden - 'trickle-down economics' has failed

A majority of Americans support measures favored by President Joe Biden to substantially redistribute U.S. wealth, according to an Ipsos poll for Reuters released on Thursday, including tax hikes on the wealthy and a higher minimum wage.

www.reuters.com

 

[struth]

Rudy was being paid...moreover is an american...he’s allowed to investigate and collect Op Reseach!

Inducing a country to announce an investigation into your opponent isn’t research, it’s interference. And tying that action to improving relations with the US is what makes it illegal.

what are they interfering in? it’s merely asking

there is not big illegal about making sure a country that is getting aid is also committed to rooting out. corruption

Clearly announcing a corruption investigation into a politician would be determinantal to their campaign. Trump knew this. Giuliani knew this.

Giuliani was not ever part of the Trump administration. He was a part of the campaign. Mixing campaigns and governance is illegal.

well you’d think but you all were aware of his corruption and still voted for him

We were well aware of the Trump administration and campaigns attempt to smear Biden. We also found out that the allegations were nonsense through the process of impeachment.

If there were sufficient grounds for an investigation, the DoJ would have done so. It’s not the role of the Trump campaign to do so.

of course he was running against him....

but smear? i mean a smear is the “parody” impeachment, or the russian conspiracy hoax...a smear isn’t simply talking about the facts behind the bidens ties to a corrupt company

Again, the question you don't want to answer...

What was Giuliani to gain by getting Ukraine to open an investigation into Biden?

just the world to know they were committed to the process

LOLOL

Utter nonsense. Giuliani had nothing to gain by that. The Trump campaign for the 2020 election was the only party who would gain from that.

of course they would have..not sure what your point is

What would Rudy gain from that?ou w

Because I am sure he wanted Trump to win....I mean really...geez...I suppose the same thing Clinton gained from having Steele ask people questions and do whatever he did....

Bingo. Rudy wanted Trump to win. It was political.

sure he wanted him to win. I don’t think the Bidens corruption was political it was just about getting rich

Sadly, just as you're incapable of understanding what blackmail is, rendering you incapable of proving it occurred -- you're equally incapable of understanding what what was corrupt on Biden's part, rendering you incapable of proving he acted corruptly.

I suppose not in the traditional sense...extortion is a better term here...good point

Not in any sense. You really have no idea what blackmail is.

Blackmail is threatening to reveal something harmful to someone unless they give in to specified demands.

Either you can say what Biden was threatening to reveal that was harmful to Poroshenko or you reveal what I've been saying is 100% true -- you don't know what blackmail is.

Which is it?

yeah it’s more extortion...good point

Thanks for admitting you are ignorant of blackmail too.

That aside, it's not extortion either. Extortion is getting something by force of blackmail, bribery or force. To be extortion, Biden would have had to get something out of it. He got nothing.

other then the probe into is son’s company compromised and delayed? sure

 

[struth]

What would Rudy gain from that?

Because I am sure he wanted Trump to win....I mean really...geez...

Thanks for finally admitting that.

And that's a crime.

sorry....maybe in leftist totalarian states it's a crime to want someone other then your party's nominee to win, but it's not in the United States

You said Trump's 2020 campaign would gain from Ukraine investigating Biden. That's a crime. Not in "leftist totalarian states," in any state. It's a violation of federal law.

Lock him up!

hahaha it’s no crime to benefit from someone conducting an investigation of possible corruption! haha are you insane?

Depends on the circumstances. In this case, it was beneficial to a political campaign and the aid would have come from a foreign national. That's a crime. I even showed you the law which shows it's a crime.

Lock him up!

hahaaa it’s no crime even for a political campaign!

do you really think that when someone simply runs for office they are immune from any sort of investigation?? geez

I see you're as ignorant about the law as you are about the meaning of blackmail.

Oh well, probably still above your head, but here it is again anyway...

§30121 Contributions and donations by foreign nationals​

​

(a) Prohibition​

​

It shall be unlawful for-​

​

(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make-​

​

(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;​

​

(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or​

​

(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or​

​

(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.​

​

​

Lock him up!

um that’s not what he did. geez

 

[Faun]

Rudy was being paid...moreover is an american...he’s allowed to investigate and collect Op Reseach!

Inducing a country to announce an investigation into your opponent isn’t research, it’s interference. And tying that action to improving relations with the US is what makes it illegal.

what are they interfering in? it’s merely asking

there is not big illegal about making sure a country that is getting aid is also committed to rooting out. corruption

Clearly announcing a corruption investigation into a politician would be determinantal to their campaign. Trump knew this. Giuliani knew this.

Giuliani was not ever part of the Trump administration. He was a part of the campaign. Mixing campaigns and governance is illegal.

well you’d think but you all were aware of his corruption and still voted for him

We were well aware of the Trump administration and campaigns attempt to smear Biden. We also found out that the allegations were nonsense through the process of impeachment.

If there were sufficient grounds for an investigation, the DoJ would have done so. It’s not the role of the Trump campaign to do so.

of course he was running against him....

but smear? i mean a smear is the “parody” impeachment, or the russian conspiracy hoax...a smear isn’t simply talking about the facts behind the bidens ties to a corrupt company

Again, the question you don't want to answer...

What was Giuliani to gain by getting Ukraine to open an investigation into Biden?

just the world to know they were committed to the process

LOLOL

Utter nonsense. Giuliani had nothing to gain by that. The Trump campaign for the 2020 election was the only party who would gain from that.

of course they would have..not sure what your point is

What would Rudy gain from that?ou w

Because I am sure he wanted Trump to win....I mean really...geez...I suppose the same thing Clinton gained from having Steele ask people questions and do whatever he did....

Bingo. Rudy wanted Trump to win. It was political.

sure he wanted him to win. I don’t think the Bidens corruption was political it was just about getting rich

Sadly, just as you're incapable of understanding what blackmail is, rendering you incapable of proving it occurred -- you're equally incapable of understanding what what was corrupt on Biden's part, rendering you incapable of proving he acted corruptly.

I suppose not in the traditional sense...extortion is a better term here...good point

Not in any sense. You really have no idea what blackmail is.

Blackmail is threatening to reveal something harmful to someone unless they give in to specified demands.

Either you can say what Biden was threatening to reveal that was harmful to Poroshenko or you reveal what I've been saying is 100% true -- you don't know what blackmail is.

Which is it?

yeah it’s more extortion...good point

Thanks for admitting you are ignorant of blackmail too.

That aside, it's not extortion either. Extortion is getting something by force of blackmail, bribery or force. To be extortion, Biden would have had to get something out of it. He got nothing.

other then the probe into is son’s company compromised and delayed? sure

There was no such "probing" taking place when Shokin was pushed out. So no, not blackmail, not extortion, not bribery.

And again, getting rid of Shokin created more risk than it did benefit for Burisma. You have your story completely backwards. With Shokin in office, there was stonewalling the investigation into Burisma for two years and no progress. After Shokin was out, Lutsenko, his replacement, prosecuted Zlochecsky on tax charges. If what you claim had any merit, and it has none whatsoever, Biden would have gone after Lutsenko too.

So why didn't Biden seek to have Lutsenko, the one prosecutor who actually did go after Zlochevsky, removed too?

And by the way, prosecuting Zlochevsky didn't cost Hunter Biden his job.

 

[Faun]

What would Rudy gain from that?

Because I am sure he wanted Trump to win....I mean really...geez...

Thanks for finally admitting that.

And that's a crime.

sorry....maybe in leftist totalarian states it's a crime to want someone other then your party's nominee to win, but it's not in the United States

You said Trump's 2020 campaign would gain from Ukraine investigating Biden. That's a crime. Not in "leftist totalarian states," in any state. It's a violation of federal law.

Lock him up!

hahaha it’s no crime to benefit from someone conducting an investigation of possible corruption! haha are you insane?

Depends on the circumstances. In this case, it was beneficial to a political campaign and the aid would have come from a foreign national. That's a crime. I even showed you the law which shows it's a crime.

Lock him up!

hahaaa it’s no crime even for a political campaign!

do you really think that when someone simply runs for office they are immune from any sort of investigation?? geez

I see you're as ignorant about the law as you are about the meaning of blackmail.

Oh well, probably still above your head, but here it is again anyway...

§30121 Contributions and donations by foreign nationals​

​

(a) Prohibition​

​

It shall be unlawful for-​

​

(1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make-​

​

(A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election;​

​

(B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or​

​

(C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or​

​

(2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.​

​

​

Lock him up!

um that’s not what he did. geez

Of course it is. Given your utter ignorance on the Biden/Shokin event, I can't say I'm surprised to see this one is over your head too.

Giuliani (Trump's private attorney) solicited Yermak (a foreign national) to have Biden (a rival of Trump's 2020 campaign for president) investigated by Ukraine (a thing of value).

It shall be unlawful for a person to solicit [a] thing of value from a foreign national in connection with a Federal, State, or local election.​

Lock him up!

 

[Colin norris]

Another day, another.....


View attachment 498387

Another day, another.....

Another day, another.....


View attachment 498387

There's going to be a reckoning, and I reckon that Giuliani isn't going to like it one bit. Feel free to send him money for his defense.

Can't you clowns give it a rest for one day?....Just one?

yeah incredible you clowns never have one bad peep to say about criminal Biden how he has raised gas prices.your sad hatred for trump is pathetic America haters.

Let's talk about gas prices.
How could Biden be responsible for the Chinese hack into their system because that what caused it. Then your Republican free enterprise system steps in and raises the price under the guise of a shortage. You don't think son.
Joe imports oil to get reserves up and for emergencies like that but your not expected to know anything about that.
So imagine how much your fellow Republican oil companies would have charged if Joe didn't step in.
You don't think but shoot off your ignorant big mouth full of lies and bile.
Go away you fool.

 

[Mustang]

"Xiden withheld money from the country until they canned the guy looking into his son’s corrupt company"

Really?​

Poster Struth you still haven't found the clue?
At this point I, for one, question your sincerity in this discussion.
It appears to be either trolling for trolling sakes.....or........willful ignorance.

There have been several posts on this thread explaining the whys and whyfor's of this kerfuffle.
And yet you persist.

Joe Biden didn't have the authority as merely the Vice President to withhold such monies.
He did have the authority...directly given to him by his boss after consultation with the State Department and European governments.....to carry their message to the Ukrainian president.
Which, he did.

It is how international diplomacy works. Duh!
If one's regular corps of diplomats is unable to make progress on an issue our nation feels is against our interest, well, you then send in a bigger gun.....a Secretary of one department or another, maybe one of the Joint Chiefs, maybe a top general, an important business leader.....or you can send in a Vice President who is long experienced in America's foreign relations .

You do all of that as "official American policy".
Duh!

he’s on TV bragging about how he did it

not sure why or how someone from Europe would have authority to do that...

Bragging about getting a corrupt prosecutor, who wouldn't prosecute, fired.

That was a fine accomplishment and not at all the crime you couldn't even properly identify.

Conservatives would love corrupt prosecutors because then they'd be able to prosecute their political opponents just like Putin does.

After all, when conservatives yelled "lock her (Hillary) up," it was more than rhetorical flourish. They really wanted it to happen.

Remember when the Obama DOJ went after GOP rising star Bob McDonnell? Only to have the SCOTUS overturn that conviction?

Remember when Xiden, Obama and the Obamagate gang colluded in the Oval Office to undermine the Trump admin, and go after Flynn? Only to finally have the Brady evidence released that exonerated him?

Yeah...I could go on....

You could try and fail. There was no exoneration of Flynn. Only corrupt politicians covering their asses.

Conservatives love to say they were exonerated even when they get off only due to a technicality.

You see, that's exactly what Oliver North said in 1990 when he got off on a technicality after being convicted the year before on 3 felony counts for his part in the Iran Contra scandal. I remember it specifically because someone stuck a microphone in his face and he used the word 'exonerated' to describe what happened when the appeals court vacated his conviction. Frankly, at the very least, I think he should have been convicted of a misrepresentation of the facts regarding the overturned verdict. At least that could be called justice.

The story is told below in an excerpt from Wikipedia

[North was indicted in March 1988 on 16 felony counts. His trial opened in February 1989, and on May 4, 1989, he was initially convicted of three: accepting an illegal gratuity, aiding and abetting in the obstruction of a congressional inquiry, and ordering the destruction of documents through his secretary, Fawn Hall. He was sentenced by U.S. District Judge Gerhard Gesell on July 5, 1989, to a three-year suspended prison term, two years probation, $150,000 in fines, and 1,200 hours of community service. North performed some of his community service within Potomac Gardens, a public housing project in southeast Washington, DC. However, on July 20, 1990, with the help of the American Civil Liberties Union, North's convictions were vacated, after the appeals court found that witnesses in his trial might have been impermissibly affected by his immunized congressional testimony.]

 

[struth]

"Xiden withheld money from the country until they canned the guy looking into his son’s corrupt company"

Really?​

Poster Struth you still haven't found the clue?
At this point I, for one, question your sincerity in this discussion.
It appears to be either trolling for trolling sakes.....or........willful ignorance.

There have been several posts on this thread explaining the whys and whyfor's of this kerfuffle.
And yet you persist.

Joe Biden didn't have the authority as merely the Vice President to withhold such monies.
He did have the authority...directly given to him by his boss after consultation with the State Department and European governments.....to carry their message to the Ukrainian president.
Which, he did.

It is how international diplomacy works. Duh!
If one's regular corps of diplomats is unable to make progress on an issue our nation feels is against our interest, well, you then send in a bigger gun.....a Secretary of one department or another, maybe one of the Joint Chiefs, maybe a top general, an important business leader.....or you can send in a Vice President who is long experienced in America's foreign relations .

You do all of that as "official American policy".
Duh!

he’s on TV bragging about how he did it

not sure why or how someone from Europe would have authority to do that...

Bragging about getting a corrupt prosecutor, who wouldn't prosecute, fired.

That was a fine accomplishment and not at all the crime you couldn't even properly identify.

Conservatives would love corrupt prosecutors because then they'd be able to prosecute their political opponents just like Putin does.

After all, when conservatives yelled "lock her (Hillary) up," it was more than rhetorical flourish. They really wanted it to happen.

Remember when the Obama DOJ went after GOP rising star Bob McDonnell? Only to have the SCOTUS overturn that conviction?

Remember when Xiden, Obama and the Obamagate gang colluded in the Oval Office to undermine the Trump admin, and go after Flynn? Only to finally have the Brady evidence released that exonerated him?

Yeah...I could go on....

You could try and fail. There was no exoneration of Flynn. Only corrupt politicians covering their asses.

Conservatives love to say they were exonerated even when they get off only due to a technicality.

You see, that's exactly what Oliver North said in 1990 when he got off on a technicality after being convicted the year before on 3 felony counts for his part in the Iran Contra scandal. I remember it specifically because someone stuck a microphone in his face and he used the word 'exonerated' to describe what happened when the appeals court vacated his conviction. Frankly, at the very least, I think he should have been convicted of a misrepresentation of the facts regarding the overturned verdict. At least that could be called justice.

The story is told below in an excerpt from Wikipedia

[North was indicted in March 1988 on 16 felony counts. His trial opened in February 1989, and on May 4, 1989, he was initially convicted of three: accepting an illegal gratuity, aiding and abetting in the obstruction of a congressional inquiry, and ordering the destruction of documents through his secretary, Fawn Hall. He was sentenced by U.S. District Judge Gerhard Gesell on July 5, 1989, to a three-year suspended prison term, two years probation, $150,000 in fines, and 1,200 hours of community service. North performed some of his community service within Potomac Gardens, a public housing project in southeast Washington, DC. However, on July 20, 1990, with the help of the American Civil Liberties Union, North's convictions were vacated, after the appeals court found that witnesses in his trial might have been impermissibly affected by his immunized congressional testimony.]

well the technically being, he didn’t violate the law