New photos of the exposed tunnle

[Hollie]

Let's suppose that tomorrow morning; we discovered that Israel didn't exist, that Israel was magically gone. How would this event change the Islamist world? Would the conditions which foster ignorance, poverty and corrupt rulers suddenly resolve themselves? No. Would the religious perspectives which foster grinding oppression of women suddenly cease? No. Would the disappearance of Israel suddenly cause corrupt religious leaders to close their schools of hate and intolerance?, would the population of Islamic nations suddenly embrace plurality and tolerance of those who believe differently (or not at all)? Again, The answer is no.

Correct! Because the damage has been done now, just like when you cut out a cancer the damage remains. Had Zionist Israel never existed in the first place, we'd have a cosmopoltian democratic prosperous Palestine next to a similar Lebanon. Syria and Iraq would have strong democratic governments. There's every possibilty Egypt would be a constitutional Monarchy and Jordan would be more or less like it is now. In the intervening years there would have been far less suffering and destruction and the Wahabist/Salafist nut-jobs would still be powerless whacko fringe groups ignored or laughed at by every other Jewish, or Muslim and Christian person.

Such nonsense. There never has been such an alternate reality as your goofy Islamist paradise "cosmopoltia democratic prosperous" Islam'istan. Too funny.

Have you bumped your head too hard on your prayer mat?

 

[flacaltenn]

If the Chinese were in possession of California, I'd suggest we bring in a carrier from Norfolk and drag the place into the Pacific.

Someone cue-up Billy Joel, please.

no, if they were in possession of california, we should DRIVE THEM OUT.

Just like Arabs want to drive out Europeans who have stolen their land.

Most of that land was PURCHASED. There are deeds to Tel Aviv and Haifa you can find on the net. Sold by Arabs who chose to leave...

No more than 7% of the total land of Palestine.

How BIG is this Palestine you quote 7% for?? You counting trans-jordan?

 

[Shusha]

again, if someone stole your house, and let you live in your former shitty garage, I don't think you'd be feeling terribly grateful.

Gaza, the shitty garage:

Yeah, the only 5 star hotel in Gaza, in mothballs since 2007 and recently taken over by a Spanish company. Can't help but notice a distinct lack of people in the picture.

Gaza's first five-star hotel provides luxury and hope amid the blockades

That beach sure is nice. It would make a great tourist destination under the right ownership.

 

[flacaltenn]

What happened to the discussion of "tunnels"?
You really have to go back to the Ottoman to discuss the
desire to build tunnels?

Can't have every single thread in this forum look like all the others.

The problem is, the tunnels are a symptom of the larger problem..

The Zionists like to pretend that these people digging the tunnels are just being a bunch of meanies.

Um, no, they are doing EXACTLY what Americans would do if a bunch of Chinese showed up one day and occupied California and treated Americans like second class citizens.

Actually it's more like Israel enjoyed good faith negotiations on the future of the Gaza with Fatah and the PA -- DRAGGED every single JEW kicking and screaming out of Gaza and turned the territority over to the PA with promises of cooperation on Seaports, Airports and border normalization. THEN within MONTHS -- Hamas decides to transition from Muslim aid and debate society into an armed militant opposition party.

The WORLD slammed the borders shut on Gaza, THEY killed each other in the streets and the dream ended there. NOW -- they build tunnels for no great reason. If they reconstituted the PA --- instead of focusing on resistance, and CARED about "normal relations" with the world -- they wouldn't be begging for aid from Iran to run the place..

MASSIVE devastation. Loss of VITAL infrastructure and Hamas decides to spend their concrete allotments on tunnels?? Prretty much speaks for itself..

Zionist Israel pulled out of Gaza to concentrate on colonising the West Bank. When Hamas was duely elected as the government of Palestine in the freeest and fairest elections ever held anywhere, the Zionists went batshit and pulled the plug. They started kiling each other when Fatah tried to overthrow the legitimate Hamas government by force; they succeedd in the West Bank with Zionist assistance, but failed in Gaza. The world didn't slam the borders shut on Gaza, Israel did. that's when the "dream" if there ever was one, ended. Oh and the fact that they have to have "allotments" of anything, speaks much louder.

The allotments are in lieu of OPEN trade, which is still opposed by all the original parties to the "containment".
BECAUSE the EU and the "Mid East Quartet" (Russia, US, UN, and the EU) still require a recognition of the State of Israel from Hamas and a denunciation of violence. And Egypt doesn't want to legitimize the split in the PA by dealing with Hamas. They want to remain a neutral broker. BECAUSE -- JUST TODAY -- al Sisi announced he is reviving the peace initiative with France and calling for a REGIONAL solution. (Does that sound like anything FlaCalTenn has been talking about?)

Egypt has destroyed just as many tunnels as Israel. And they recognize the security threat that they represent to their country. Yup.. Can't rebuild those hospitals or schools -- we've got tunneling to do... Poor choices given the pain their people are in..

 

[Phoenall]

Let's suppose that tomorrow morning; we discovered that Israel didn't exist, that Israel was magically gone. How would this event change the Islamist world? Would the conditions which foster ignorance, poverty and corrupt rulers suddenly resolve themselves? No. Would the religious perspectives which foster grinding oppression of women suddenly cease? No. Would the disappearance of Israel suddenly cause corrupt religious leaders to close their schools of hate and intolerance?, would the population of Islamic nations suddenly embrace plurality and tolerance of those who believe differently (or not at all)? Again, The answer is no.

Correct! Because the damage has been done now, just like when you cut out a cancer the damage remains. Had Zionist Israel never existed in the first place, we'd have a cosmopoltian democratic prosperous Palestine next to a similar Lebanon. Syria and Iraq would have strong democratic governments. There's every possibilty Egypt would be a constitutional Monarchy and Jordan would be more or less like it is now. In the intervening years there would have been far less suffering and destruction and the Wahabist/Salafist nut-jobs would still be powerless whacko fringe groups ignored or laughed at by every other Jewish, or Muslim and Christian person.

YOU REALLY DO LIVE IN A FANTASY WORLD DONT YOU There will never be peace in the whole world while islam exists. The whole of history is full of massacres done by muslims, and there has never been a time that Lebanon has been prosperous under muslim rule.

 

[Phoenall]

...Had Zionist Israel never existed in the first place, we'd have a cosmopoltian democratic prosperous Palestine next to a similar Lebanon. Syria and Iraq would have strong democratic governments. There's every possibilty Egypt would be a constitutional Monarchy and Jordan would be more or less like it is now. In the intervening years there would have been far less suffering and destruction and the Wahabist/Salafist nut-jobs would still be powerless whacko fringe groups ignored or laughed at by every other Jewish, or Muslim and Christian person.

Wow. WTF are you smoking in your hookah?

Don't smoke, thanks. Just extrapolating the situation in the Middle east as it was in the 1940's

When the mufti was after mass murdering the Jews for Hitler as an equal partner in the final solution

 

[Phoenall]

If the Chinese were in possession of California, I'd suggest we bring in a carrier from Norfolk and drag the place into the Pacific.

Someone cue-up Billy Joel, please.

no, if they were in possession of california, we should DRIVE THEM OUT.

Just like Arabs want to drive out Europeans who have stolen their land.

Most of that land was PURCHASED. There are deeds to Tel Aviv and Haifa you can find on the net. Sold by Arabs who chose to leave...

No more than 7% of the total land of Palestine.

How BIG is this Palestine you quote 7% for?? You counting trans-jordan?

The land of Transjordan was never counted as even back in 1923 they were apartheid and had a no Jew policy

 

[Divine Wind]

Let's suppose that tomorrow morning; we discovered that Israel didn't exist, that Israel was magically gone. How would this event change the Islamist world? Would the conditions which foster ignorance, poverty and corrupt rulers suddenly resolve themselves? No. Would the religious perspectives which foster grinding oppression of women suddenly cease? No. Would the disappearance of Israel suddenly cause corrupt religious leaders to close their schools of hate and intolerance?, would the population of Islamic nations suddenly embrace plurality and tolerance of those who believe differently (or not at all)? Again, The answer is no.

Correct! Because the damage has been done now, just like when you cut out a cancer the damage remains. Had Zionist Israel never existed in the first place, we'd have a cosmopoltian democratic prosperous Palestine next to a similar Lebanon. Syria and Iraq would have strong democratic governments. There's every possibilty Egypt would be a constitutional Monarchy and Jordan would be more or less like it is now. In the intervening years there would have been far less suffering and destruction and the Wahabist/Salafist nut-jobs would still be powerless whacko fringe groups ignored or laughed at by every other Jewish, or Muslim and Christian person.

YOU REALLY DO LIVE IN A FANTASY WORLD DONT YOU There will never be peace in the whole world while islam exists. The whole of history is full of massacres done by muslims, and there has never been a time that Lebanon has been prosperous under muslim rule.

Agreed about fantasy world, but disagreed about Islam. It's just a religion, a path to God. Most Muslims are peaceful. About .2% are not. The more we attack the innocent, the more likely they'll side with the radicals. The same happened with Christians under the Romans, Catholics, Protestants and Jews under various anti-religious regimes.

We need the help of the world's 1.6 BILLION Muslims in order to defeat the relatively few, but highly destructive radical Muslims.

 

[flacaltenn]

again, if someone stole your house, and let you live in your former shitty garage, I don't think you'd be feeling terribly grateful.

Gaza, the shitty garage:

Yeah, the only 5 star hotel in Gaza, in mothballs since 2007 and recently taken over by a Spanish company. Can't help but notice a distinct lack of people in the picture.

Gaza's first five-star hotel provides luxury and hope amid the blockades

That beach sure is nice. It would make a great tourist destination under the right ownership.

Trump would make that Gaza Hotel "great again". Electricity and bathing suit attire could be issues tho..
Someone needs to tally up all the ASSETS of this "shitty garage" and demonstrate how much opportunity is going to waste... It really OBSCENE that the Palis choose to align with militants instead of innovators and builders.

 

[JoeB131]

The law is clear the arab muslims are illegal immigrants and should be evicted to Jordan or their nation of origin. If it was the arab muslims that had the laws in their favour that would be your demands, but because it is the Jews you come up with every excuse you can find

So, um, who do you think was living in Palestine before the Europeans started dumping their Excess Jews there?

What legal decision made it their land after they lost it as reparations of war in 1917 ? Are you unable to answer such simple questions without deflecting or flaming ?

Imperialists don't get to make legal decisions. The brown people of the world put an end to that shit after World War II.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Great, a tunnel.

Would you feel the same if it was from Tijuana to Imperial Beach?

Might make easier transit to and from Mejico....

That's what roads are for hence all the 18-wheelers going back and forth. The tunnel is for illegitimate traffic.

Yeah, but with roads you have to stop, show your passport, what a hassle.

 

[docmauser1]

A drivelous non sequitur, typically, of course.

No, actually, it's a valid point. the problem you guys don't get is that the Zionist Entity is hated across the Islamic world because it is a reminder of what the Imperial Power, especially the British, did to them for years.

Then that islamic world woud be better off dispensing with its imperial burka ambitions and occupying itself with getting a life and a job instead, of course.

 

[Challenger]

Don't smoke, thanks. Just extrapolating the situation in the Middle east as it was in the 1940's

AKA fantasizing. A lot of factors went into making the present. For one, you're forgetting the influence of the Soviet Union on the Middle East.

Not at all, Soviet influence increased in the Middle East when America/the West was percieved to be siding with Zionist Israel, the Soviets provided a check and balance effect for dictatorial nationalistic regimes that arose as a consequence of the Zionist victory in 1948. King Farouk of Egypt was overthrown in 1952, Syria's democratc government of Shukri al-Quatli was overthrown in a military coup in 1949 (possibly with the conivance of the CIA) as a direct result of the defeat in 1948, this triggered a period of instability. Syria only aligned herself with the Soviets in 1966. Lebanon enjoyed a log period of political stability as it managed to avoid serious engagement in the 1948 war but this was undermined with huge influxes of displaced and disposessed Palestinian refugees in 1948 and 1967 which led to conflict with Zionist Israel and destabilisation. all of these events were ripples arising from the creation of the Zionist state. Without that, would the Soviets have gained so much influence? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[Challenger]

If the Chinese were in possession of California, I'd suggest we bring in a carrier from Norfolk and drag the place into the Pacific.

Someone cue-up Billy Joel, please.

no, if they were in possession of california, we should DRIVE THEM OUT.

Just like Arabs want to drive out Europeans who have stolen their land.

Most of that land was PURCHASED. There are deeds to Tel Aviv and Haifa you can find on the net. Sold by Arabs who chose to leave...

No more than 7% of the total land of Palestine.

How BIG is this Palestine you quote 7% for?? You counting trans-jordan?

Transjordania was never part of Palestine, but was administered through the Mandatory authorities in Palestine. When the 7% is mentioned the area counted does not include Transjodania.

 

[Challenger]

again, if someone stole your house, and let you live in your former shitty garage, I don't think you'd be feeling terribly grateful.

Gaza, the shitty garage:

Yeah, the only 5 star hotel in Gaza, in mothballs since 2007 and recently taken over by a Spanish company. Can't help but notice a distinct lack of people in the picture.

Gaza's first five-star hotel provides luxury and hope amid the blockades

That beach sure is nice. It would make a great tourist destination under the right ownership.

Yeah, if only the Zionists didn't keep bombing the area, tends to put tourists off, that and being buzzed by drones all the time so no privacy and deliberate low level supersonic overflights that create sonic booms and frighten the children and wildlife. If only the place had better neighbours...

 

[Challenger]

What happened to the discussion of "tunnels"?
You really have to go back to the Ottoman to discuss the
desire to build tunnels?

Can't have every single thread in this forum look like all the others.

The problem is, the tunnels are a symptom of the larger problem..

The Zionists like to pretend that these people digging the tunnels are just being a bunch of meanies.

Um, no, they are doing EXACTLY what Americans would do if a bunch of Chinese showed up one day and occupied California and treated Americans like second class citizens.

Actually it's more like Israel enjoyed good faith negotiations on the future of the Gaza with Fatah and the PA -- DRAGGED every single JEW kicking and screaming out of Gaza and turned the territority over to the PA with promises of cooperation on Seaports, Airports and border normalization. THEN within MONTHS -- Hamas decides to transition from Muslim aid and debate society into an armed militant opposition party.

The WORLD slammed the borders shut on Gaza, THEY killed each other in the streets and the dream ended there. NOW -- they build tunnels for no great reason. If they reconstituted the PA --- instead of focusing on resistance, and CARED about "normal relations" with the world -- they wouldn't be begging for aid from Iran to run the place..

MASSIVE devastation. Loss of VITAL infrastructure and Hamas decides to spend their concrete allotments on tunnels?? Prretty much speaks for itself..

Zionist Israel pulled out of Gaza to concentrate on colonising the West Bank. When Hamas was duely elected as the government of Palestine in the freeest and fairest elections ever held anywhere, the Zionists went batshit and pulled the plug. They started kiling each other when Fatah tried to overthrow the legitimate Hamas government by force; they succeedd in the West Bank with Zionist assistance, but failed in Gaza. The world didn't slam the borders shut on Gaza, Israel did. that's when the "dream" if there ever was one, ended. Oh and the fact that they have to have "allotments" of anything, speaks much louder.

The allotments are in lieu of OPEN trade, which is still opposed by all the original parties to the "containment".
BECAUSE the EU and the "Mid East Quartet" (Russia, US, UN, and the EU) still require a recognition of the State of Israel from Hamas and a denunciation of violence. And Egypt doesn't want to legitimize the split in the PA by dealing with Hamas. They want to remain a neutral broker. BECAUSE -- JUST TODAY -- al Sisi announced he is reviving the peace initiative with France and calling for a REGIONAL solution. (Does that sound like anything FlaCalTenn has been talking about?)

Egypt has destroyed just as many tunnels as Israel. And they recognize the security threat that they represent to their country. Yup.. Can't rebuild those hospitals or schools -- we've got tunneling to do... Poor choices given the pain their people are in..

Mutual recognition has traditionally come at the end of peace negotiations, never as a precondition to those negotiations, until now. Egypt's recent military coup d'etat destroyed any hope for democracy for that country, but for a brief moment in 2012 the border was opened and nothing bad happened until the Zionists broke the truce on 13th June 2014. Al-Sisi is a Saudi puppet going through the motions, I don't hold out any hope of a regional solution any time soon, the Zionists don't want one.

 

[Phoenall]

Let's suppose that tomorrow morning; we discovered that Israel didn't exist, that Israel was magically gone. How would this event change the Islamist world? Would the conditions which foster ignorance, poverty and corrupt rulers suddenly resolve themselves? No. Would the religious perspectives which foster grinding oppression of women suddenly cease? No. Would the disappearance of Israel suddenly cause corrupt religious leaders to close their schools of hate and intolerance?, would the population of Islamic nations suddenly embrace plurality and tolerance of those who believe differently (or not at all)? Again, The answer is no.

Correct! Because the damage has been done now, just like when you cut out a cancer the damage remains. Had Zionist Israel never existed in the first place, we'd have a cosmopoltian democratic prosperous Palestine next to a similar Lebanon. Syria and Iraq would have strong democratic governments. There's every possibilty Egypt would be a constitutional Monarchy and Jordan would be more or less like it is now. In the intervening years there would have been far less suffering and destruction and the Wahabist/Salafist nut-jobs would still be powerless whacko fringe groups ignored or laughed at by every other Jewish, or Muslim and Christian person.

YOU REALLY DO LIVE IN A FANTASY WORLD DONT YOU There will never be peace in the whole world while islam exists. The whole of history is full of massacres done by muslims, and there has never been a time that Lebanon has been prosperous under muslim rule.

Agreed about fantasy world, but disagreed about Islam. It's just a religion, a path to God. Most Muslims are peaceful. About .2% are not. The more we attack the innocent, the more likely they'll side with the radicals. The same happened with Christians under the Romans, Catholics, Protestants and Jews under various anti-religious regimes.

We need the help of the world's 1.6 BILLION Muslims in order to defeat the relatively few, but highly destructive radical Muslims.

And that is just another fantasy as 50% of muslims follow the teachings of violence, murder and rape. Look at any nation with an Islamic population and you will see an increase in violent crimes, sexual assaults, rapes and threatening behaviour. And it will not be the same 2% doing it but more like 80% to 90%. You need to live in a country with a muslim population of 5% and you will see just how they are. We had a TV documentary in the UK not that long ago that looked at mosques, and used hidden camera's to record the sermons. These showed that radical islam is widespread and that the majority of muslims agree with the teachings. The only thing they understand is to be ruled by violent means, and this is reflected in the koran and hadiths.

 

[Phoenall]

The law is clear the arab muslims are illegal immigrants and should be evicted to Jordan or their nation of origin. If it was the arab muslims that had the laws in their favour that would be your demands, but because it is the Jews you come up with every excuse you can find

So, um, who do you think was living in Palestine before the Europeans started dumping their Excess Jews there?

What legal decision made it their land after they lost it as reparations of war in 1917 ? Are you unable to answer such simple questions without deflecting or flaming ?

Imperialists don't get to make legal decisions. The brown people of the world put an end to that shit after World War II.

A few nomadic muslim, some Jews and a small contingent of Christians. And the Europeans did not dump anyone if you read the proper history as it was the Ottomans that invited the Jews from Europe to migrate there.

In other words you have no answer because the arab muslims have no legal right to be there, so make up some bullshit to cover your ineptitude and stupidity. Even your "brown people" made treaties right up until this year granting certain groups lands in various parts of the world. It is called the U.N. and what they say should be law agreed by all nations, and not just a select few.

Now go and learn some real history and facts and stop being a RACIST POS when international law defend and support the Jews actions

 

[Phoenall]

again, if someone stole your house, and let you live in your former shitty garage, I don't think you'd be feeling terribly grateful.

Gaza, the shitty garage:

Yeah, the only 5 star hotel in Gaza, in mothballs since 2007 and recently taken over by a Spanish company. Can't help but notice a distinct lack of people in the picture.

Gaza's first five-star hotel provides luxury and hope amid the blockades

That beach sure is nice. It would make a great tourist destination under the right ownership.

Yeah, if only the Zionists didn't keep bombing the area, tends to put tourists off, that and being buzzed by drones all the time so no privacy and deliberate low level supersonic overflights that create sonic booms and frighten the children and wildlife. If only the place had better neighbours...

A pity then that the Palestinians keep firing illegal weapons at Israel that have been seen as war crimes, then the Israeli's would not need to fire back and demolish the launch sites. And isn't it a pity that the Palestinians only have 50% of Palestine to hide their illegal rocket launchers in, as the rest is wide open and would put the brave terrorists in danger of being the casualties.

Blame the Palestinians who started the violence way back in the depths of history because the Jews refused to convert to islam.

 

[Phoenall]

again, if someone stole your house, and let you live in your former shitty garage, I don't think you'd be feeling terribly grateful.

Gaza, the shitty garage:

Yeah, the only 5 star hotel in Gaza, in mothballs since 2007 and recently taken over by a Spanish company. Can't help but notice a distinct lack of people in the picture.

Gaza's first five-star hotel provides luxury and hope amid the blockades

That beach sure is nice. It would make a great tourist destination under the right ownership.

Yeah, if only the Zionists didn't keep bombing the area, tends to put tourists off, that and being buzzed by drones all the time so no privacy and deliberate low level supersonic overflights that create sonic booms and frighten the children and wildlife. If only the place had better neighbours...

A pity then that the Palestinians keep firing illegal weapons at Israel that have been seen as war crimes, then the Israeli's would not need to fire back and demolish the launch sites. And isn't it a pity that the Palestinians only have 50% of Palestine to hide their illegal rocket launchers in, as the rest is wide open and would put the brave terrorists in danger of being the casualties.

Blame the Palestinians who started the violence way back in the depths of history because the Jews refused to convert to islam.