New photos of the exposed tunnle

[Phoenall]

What happened to the discussion of "tunnels"?
You really have to go back to the Ottoman to discuss the
desire to build tunnels?

Can't have every single thread in this forum look like all the others.

The problem is, the tunnels are a symptom of the larger problem..

The Zionists like to pretend that these people digging the tunnels are just being a bunch of meanies.

Um, no, they are doing EXACTLY what Americans would do if a bunch of Chinese showed up one day and occupied California and treated Americans like second class citizens.

Actually it's more like Israel enjoyed good faith negotiations on the future of the Gaza with Fatah and the PA -- DRAGGED every single JEW kicking and screaming out of Gaza and turned the territority over to the PA with promises of cooperation on Seaports, Airports and border normalization. THEN within MONTHS -- Hamas decides to transition from Muslim aid and debate society into an armed militant opposition party.

The WORLD slammed the borders shut on Gaza, THEY killed each other in the streets and the dream ended there. NOW -- they build tunnels for no great reason. If they reconstituted the PA --- instead of focusing on resistance, and CARED about "normal relations" with the world -- they wouldn't be begging for aid from Iran to run the place..

MASSIVE devastation. Loss of VITAL infrastructure and Hamas decides to spend their concrete allotments on tunnels?? Prretty much speaks for itself..

Zionist Israel pulled out of Gaza to concentrate on colonising the West Bank. When Hamas was duely elected as the government of Palestine in the freeest and fairest elections ever held anywhere, the Zionists went batshit and pulled the plug. They started kiling each other when Fatah tried to overthrow the legitimate Hamas government by force; they succeedd in the West Bank with Zionist assistance, but failed in Gaza. The world didn't slam the borders shut on Gaza, Israel did. that's when the "dream" if there ever was one, ended. Oh and the fact that they have to have "allotments" of anything, speaks much louder.

The allotments are in lieu of OPEN trade, which is still opposed by all the original parties to the "containment".
BECAUSE the EU and the "Mid East Quartet" (Russia, US, UN, and the EU) still require a recognition of the State of Israel from Hamas and a denunciation of violence. And Egypt doesn't want to legitimize the split in the PA by dealing with Hamas. They want to remain a neutral broker. BECAUSE -- JUST TODAY -- al Sisi announced he is reviving the peace initiative with France and calling for a REGIONAL solution. (Does that sound like anything FlaCalTenn has been talking about?)

Egypt has destroyed just as many tunnels as Israel. And they recognize the security threat that they represent to their country. Yup.. Can't rebuild those hospitals or schools -- we've got tunneling to do... Poor choices given the pain their people are in..

Mutual recognition has traditionally come at the end of peace negotiations, never as a precondition to those negotiations, until now. Egypt's recent military coup d'etat destroyed any hope for democracy for that country, but for a brief moment in 2012 the border was opened and nothing bad happened until the Zionists broke the truce on 13th June 2014. Al-Sisi is a Saudi puppet going through the motions, I don't hold out any hope of a regional solution any time soon, the Zionists don't want one.

You must have slept in a cave then while all the trouble was going on, and it was the Palestinians that broke the truce if you look at the evidence

 

[Phoenall]

If the Chinese were in possession of California, I'd suggest we bring in a carrier from Norfolk and drag the place into the Pacific.

Someone cue-up Billy Joel, please.

no, if they were in possession of california, we should DRIVE THEM OUT.

Just like Arabs want to drive out Europeans who have stolen their land.

Most of that land was PURCHASED. There are deeds to Tel Aviv and Haifa you can find on the net. Sold by Arabs who chose to leave...

No more than 7% of the total land of Palestine.

How BIG is this Palestine you quote 7% for?? You counting trans-jordan?

Transjordania was never part of Palestine, but was administered through the Mandatory authorities in Palestine. When the 7% is mentioned the area counted does not include Transjodania.

Try again as the mandate of Palestine clearly says that it is and comes under separate rules. This is were the part of class a nations comes in as Hussein was already a leader. But to admit this one small part means that the rest must also be true, and your version wrong.

See here

The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate

ART 25

In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions, and to make such provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider suitable to those conditions, provided that no action shall be taken which is inconsistent with the provisions of Articles 15, 16 and 18

 

[Divine Wind]

Why are so many Left Wingers anti-Israel/Pro-Palestinian?

 

[Divine Wind]

Don't smoke, thanks. Just extrapolating the situation in the Middle east as it was in the 1940's

AKA fantasizing. A lot of factors went into making the present. For one, you're forgetting the influence of the Soviet Union on the Middle East.

Not at all, Soviet influence increased in the Middle East when America/the West was percieved to be siding with Zionist Israel, the Soviets provided a check and balance effect for dictatorial nationalistic regimes that arose as a consequence of the Zionist victory in 1948. King Farouk of Egypt was overthrown in 1952, Syria's democratc government of Shukri al-Quatli was overthrown in a military coup in 1949 (possibly with the conivance of the CIA) as a direct result of the defeat in 1948, this triggered a period of instability. Syria only aligned herself with the Soviets in 1966. Lebanon enjoyed a log period of political stability as it managed to avoid serious engagement in the 1948 war but this was undermined with huge influxes of displaced and disposessed Palestinian refugees in 1948 and 1967 which led to conflict with Zionist Israel and destabilisation. all of these events were ripples arising from the creation of the Zionist state. Without that, would the Soviets have gained so much influence? Maybe, maybe not.

Thanks for your robust defense of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Perhaps you could do an equal job defending Kim Jong-un and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea actions against the Yankee Dog Imperialists.

Sorry, dude, but your propensity to predict the future of past events is fantasy. If you truly believe in your ability to project future events, perhaps you could fill everyone in on what the Middle East will look like in 5 year increments for the next 50 years.

 

[Hollie]

again, if someone stole your house, and let you live in your former shitty garage, I don't think you'd be feeling terribly grateful.

Gaza, the shitty garage:

Yeah, the only 5 star hotel in Gaza, in mothballs since 2007 and recently taken over by a Spanish company. Can't help but notice a distinct lack of people in the picture.

Gaza's first five-star hotel provides luxury and hope amid the blockades

That beach sure is nice. It would make a great tourist destination under the right ownership.

Yeah, if only the Zionists didn't keep bombing the area, tends to put tourists off, that and being buzzed by drones all the time so no privacy and deliberate low level supersonic overflights that create sonic booms and frighten the children and wildlife. If only the place had better neighbours...

You insist that your Islamist heroes have an entitlement to committ acts of war without repercussions. Such a childish notion.

Actually, your Islamist heroes in Gaza'istan do have better neighbors, down the block in Syria, AKA ISIS'istan. But yeah, hard to imagine why tourists are put off with travel to any of the various Islamist hell holes that define the Islamist Middle East.

 

[Divine Wind]

And that is just another fantasy as 50% of muslims follow the teachings of violence, murder and rape. Look at any nation with an Islamic population and you will see an increase in violent crimes, sexual assaults, rapes and threatening behaviour. And it will not be the same 2% doing it but more like 80% to 90%. You need to live in a country with a muslim population of 5% and you will see just how they are. We had a TV documentary in the UK not that long ago that looked at mosques, and used hidden camera's to record the sermons. These showed that radical islam is widespread and that the majority of muslims agree with the teachings. The only thing they understand is to be ruled by violent means, and this is reflected in the koran and hadiths.

1) Are you claiming we need to go to war with 800 Million Muslims? What do you suggest? Nuking all those women and children? Biological warfare? Or just round them up and march them off to the "showers"?

2) You're a Brit? Well, that explains your panic.

3) I toured the ME when in the Navy and have worked with both foreign and American Muslims in my current job. I haven't seen any who needed to be shot down like dogs.

 

[JoeB131]

Then that islamic world woud be better off dispensing with its imperial burka ambitions and occupying itself with getting a life and a job instead, of course.

right. It's imperialism for the people who've lived in a land for 1600 years or more to want European invaders to leave. Right.

A few nomadic muslim, some Jews and a small contingent of Christians. And the Europeans did not dump anyone if you read the proper history as it was the Ottomans that invited the Jews from Europe to migrate there.

But the thing was, very few of them did when the Ottomans were in charge. When the British did their 1922 Census, they only found 45,000 Jews. It wasn't until Hitler turned a bunch of them into lampshades and bars of soap they started thinking this Zionism thing was a nifty idea. They found someone weak enough to beat up because the British had already beat them down.

In short, the Zionists became the Nazis, like an abused child who has gotten big enough to beat on someone else. It isn't appealing.

Now go and learn some real history and facts and stop being a RACIST POS when international law defend and support the Jews actions

Yawn, guy, I reject the Jew history of it's imperialist action. The Zionist Entity is an apatheid Colonial state, which is why it is an international pariah. The only thing that keeps Israel from being sanctioned in the UN is the US keeps using its veto to protect it.

 

[JoeB131]

Why are so many Left Wingers anti-Israel/Pro-Palestinian?

I think it's more like, why aren't more of them, at least in this country?

Tenants of liberalism are being against imperialism, militarism, religious superstition and racism. Yet the Zionist Entity is all of those things, an Apartheid State that only survives by keeping its boot on the neck of Islamic Majority, and using "God" as an excuse to do so.

I remember back in the 80's when I used to be a Young Conservative, and we had some whiny, snivelly liberal Jew I knew in college trying to score points with some of the black kids by denouncing South Africa and Apartheid. And then I asked the question, "Well, how is that any different than what Israel does to the Palestinians?"

Dead. Fucking. Silence.

Now, I don't consider myself liberal. I consider myself a pragmatist. I also am a pretty fucking militant atheist. As in, if I had my way, we'd close down every house of worship and give kids instructions about why there is no magic man in the sky.

Zionism offends me because you have a group who think that they are the Magic Sky Pixie's special people and they have the right to fuck over everyone else. It's the kind of attitude that really gets them in trouble from the Romans to Hitler. And they keep fucking doing it.

Now, I stopped believing in magic sky fairies after my mom prayed for her cancer to get better and it didn't.

 

[Challenger]

Sorry, dude, but your propensity to predict the future of past events is fantasy.

I prefer "educated guesswork" but it's not about prediction, it's about extrapolation, but I agree ultimately it's nothing more than a fantasy of what could/should have been. In the present we have to deal with the fallout of the past and the cancer of Zionist Israel is still there...for now.

 

[Challenger]

Why are so many Left Wingers anti-Israel/Pro-Palestinian?

Maybe it's that sympathy for the underdog:

Zionist artillery

Palestinian artillery

Perhaps it's because Right wingers lap it up when Zionist Isreal says Palestinians are an existential threat to the Zionist paradise.

 

[flacaltenn]

What happened to the discussion of "tunnels"?
You really have to go back to the Ottoman to discuss the
desire to build tunnels?

Can't have every single thread in this forum look like all the others.

The problem is, the tunnels are a symptom of the larger problem..

The Zionists like to pretend that these people digging the tunnels are just being a bunch of meanies.

Um, no, they are doing EXACTLY what Americans would do if a bunch of Chinese showed up one day and occupied California and treated Americans like second class citizens.

Actually it's more like Israel enjoyed good faith negotiations on the future of the Gaza with Fatah and the PA -- DRAGGED every single JEW kicking and screaming out of Gaza and turned the territority over to the PA with promises of cooperation on Seaports, Airports and border normalization. THEN within MONTHS -- Hamas decides to transition from Muslim aid and debate society into an armed militant opposition party.

The WORLD slammed the borders shut on Gaza, THEY killed each other in the streets and the dream ended there. NOW -- they build tunnels for no great reason. If they reconstituted the PA --- instead of focusing on resistance, and CARED about "normal relations" with the world -- they wouldn't be begging for aid from Iran to run the place..

MASSIVE devastation. Loss of VITAL infrastructure and Hamas decides to spend their concrete allotments on tunnels?? Prretty much speaks for itself..

Zionist Israel pulled out of Gaza to concentrate on colonising the West Bank. When Hamas was duely elected as the government of Palestine in the freeest and fairest elections ever held anywhere, the Zionists went batshit and pulled the plug. They started kiling each other when Fatah tried to overthrow the legitimate Hamas government by force; they succeedd in the West Bank with Zionist assistance, but failed in Gaza. The world didn't slam the borders shut on Gaza, Israel did. that's when the "dream" if there ever was one, ended. Oh and the fact that they have to have "allotments" of anything, speaks much louder.

The allotments are in lieu of OPEN trade, which is still opposed by all the original parties to the "containment".
BECAUSE the EU and the "Mid East Quartet" (Russia, US, UN, and the EU) still require a recognition of the State of Israel from Hamas and a denunciation of violence. And Egypt doesn't want to legitimize the split in the PA by dealing with Hamas. They want to remain a neutral broker. BECAUSE -- JUST TODAY -- al Sisi announced he is reviving the peace initiative with France and calling for a REGIONAL solution. (Does that sound like anything FlaCalTenn has been talking about?)

Egypt has destroyed just as many tunnels as Israel. And they recognize the security threat that they represent to their country. Yup.. Can't rebuild those hospitals or schools -- we've got tunneling to do... Poor choices given the pain their people are in..

Mutual recognition has traditionally come at the end of peace negotiations, never as a precondition to those negotiations, until now. Egypt's recent military coup d'etat destroyed any hope for democracy for that country, but for a brief moment in 2012 the border was opened and nothing bad happened until the Zionists broke the truce on 13th June 2014. Al-Sisi is a Saudi puppet going through the motions, I don't hold out any hope of a regional solution any time soon, the Zionists don't want one.

Oh hell no.. Cessation of hostilities and recognition of legitimacy has ALWAYS been a precondition to peace negotiations. The Palestinians never agreed to cessation of hostilities with Israel..

Al Sisi is no puppet. He recognizes the threat to Egypt from extreme Islamic militants. Did ya read the news today? He wants NONE of that.. Or the damn Hamas tunnels. You see a lot of tunnels being destroyed in the West Bank?

 

[flacaltenn]

Then that islamic world woud be better off dispensing with its imperial burka ambitions and occupying itself with getting a life and a job instead, of course.

right. It's imperialism for the people who've lived in a land for 1600 years or more to want European invaders to leave. Right.

A few nomadic muslim, some Jews and a small contingent of Christians. And the Europeans did not dump anyone if you read the proper history as it was the Ottomans that invited the Jews from Europe to migrate there.

But the thing was, very few of them did when the Ottomans were in charge. When the British did their 1922 Census, they only found 45,000 Jews. It wasn't until Hitler turned a bunch of them into lampshades and bars of soap they started thinking this Zionism thing was a nifty idea. They found someone weak enough to beat up because the British had already beat them down.

In short, the Zionists became the Nazis, like an abused child who has gotten big enough to beat on someone else. It isn't appealing.

Now go and learn some real history and facts and stop being a RACIST POS when international law defend and support the Jews actions

Yawn, guy, I reject the Jew history of it's imperialist action. The Zionist Entity is an apatheid Colonial state, which is why it is an international pariah. The only thing that keeps Israel from being sanctioned in the UN is the US keeps using its veto to protect it.

Imperialism is a big word. Doesn't have much to do with tunnels, but generally, AN EXISTING STATE is neccessary condition for CONDUCTING "Imperialistic Acts". Zionism never had a state sponsor -- did it? You read too much Noah Chomsky...

What is IMPERIALISTIC -- is to have a major state like IRAN -- funding and using local insurgencies as a proxy army for their national goals.. Hamas and their tunnels are a designed Imperialistic play..

 

[Divine Wind]

I think it's more like, why aren't more of them, at least in this country?

Tenants of liberalism are being against imperialism, militarism, religious superstition and racism. Yet the Zionist Entity is all of those things, an Apartheid State that only survives by keeping its boot on the neck of Islamic Majority, and using "God" as an excuse to do so.

I remember back in the 80's when I used to be a Young Conservative, and we had some whiny, snivelly liberal Jew I knew in college trying to score points with some of the black kids by denouncing South Africa and Apartheid. And then I asked the question, "Well, how is that any different than what Israel does to the Palestinians?"

Dead. Fucking. Silence.

Now, I don't consider myself liberal. I consider myself a pragmatist. I also am a pretty fucking militant atheist. As in, if I had my way, we'd close down every house of worship and give kids instructions about why there is no magic man in the sky.

Zionism offends me because you have a group who think that they are the Magic Sky Pixie's special people and they have the right to fuck over everyone else. It's the kind of attitude that really gets them in trouble from the Romans to Hitler. And they keep fucking doing it.

Now, I stopped believing in magic sky fairies after my mom prayed for her cancer to get better and it didn't.

So they support fanatically religious terrorists? That doesn't make sense.

Thanks for the antisemitic comment.

 

[Divine Wind]

..I prefer "educated guesswork" but it's not about prediction, it's about extrapolation, but I agree ultimately it's nothing more than a fantasy of what could/should have been. In the present we have to deal with the fallout of the past and the cancer of Zionist Israel is still there...for now.

What about the cancer of radical Islam?

Do you think supporting terrorist Palestinians is the path to peace and prosperity?

 

[Divine Wind]

Why are so many Left Wingers anti-Israel/Pro-Palestinian?

Maybe it's that sympathy for the underdog:

Zionist artillery

Palestinian artillery

Perhaps it's because Right wingers lap it up when Zionist Isreal says Palestinians are an existential threat to the Zionist paradise.

That's a lie. You know the Palestinians are using rockets and have used suicide bombers, not sling shots.

 

[member]

<SNIP>, Israel wants to push Gazans into the sea, on foot. Out door prison it is. You know what they say, people will try to break out of prison.

If Israel really wanted to push them out to the sea and destroy them, they would have already done it a long long long long long long long long time ago. Long ago.

Well the world is watching now, so its too late. They tried a long long time ago and they just didn't succeed.

What a fucking cull! NO. They fought the invading Arabs and kicked their asses to the point that the Arabs realized they had to stop fighting and go for some sort of peace agreement otherwise they wouldn't be in any part of that land, and worse.

You folks don't get it, do you. You claim that Israel wants all of the Middle East, from the Nile to the Euphrates. HA! If that were the case, every time that they have fought back the invading Arab armies and the Arabs started to cry 'uncle' they would have kept up and done just that. They had the Sinai. They could have marched all the way to Amman. They had Beirut. They have knocked on Damascus' door.

But they just want to live in peace in their land.

You contradict yourself nicely there, and completely overlook the fact that the US (when it still could), UN (world opinion) and USSR (threat of WW3) kept the Zionists in check. Their ambitions remain the same, however, "From the Euphrates to the sea". Iraq and Syria are curently "destabilised" and the Zionists are working on their "bitch", the US to recognise their annexation of the Golan, just another a step on their road to Damascus then Baghdad.

"...Their ambitions remain the same, however, "From the Euphrates to the sea". Iraq and Syria are curently "destabilised" and the Zionists are working on their "bitch", the US to recognise their annexation of the Golan, just another a step on their road to Damascus then Baghdad."

"Their ambitions remain the same.."


“LoL Challenger…”



As soon as I see on TV, israeli’s COPYING the “ambitions” of the people of the so-called “religion of peace…”


I’ll be here, right behind you expressing my concern the way I do about ‘them’ and their ‘diabolical "ambitions" (around the world).







It’s allllllllllll THEM...them and their deranged-SUB-human "ambitions."


(do you really need a list bloke......)


shut-up you limey-nazi….

 

[member]

Let's suppose that tomorrow morning; we discovered that Israel didn't exist, that Israel was magically gone. How would this event change the Islamist world? Would the conditions which foster ignorance, poverty and corrupt rulers suddenly resolve themselves? No. Would the religious perspectives which foster grinding oppression of women suddenly cease? No. Would the disappearance of Israel suddenly cause corrupt religious leaders to close their schools of hate and intolerance?, would the population of Islamic nations suddenly embrace plurality and tolerance of those who believe differently (or not at all)? Again, The answer is no.

Correct! Because the damage has been done now, just like when you cut out a cancer the damage remains. Had Zionist Israel never existed in the first place, we'd have a cosmopoltian democratic prosperous Palestine next to a similar Lebanon. Syria and Iraq would have strong democratic governments. There's every possibilty Egypt would be a constitutional Monarchy and Jordan would be more or less like it is now. In the intervening years there would have been far less suffering and destruction and the Wahabist/Salafist nut-jobs would still be powerless whacko fringe groups ignored or laughed at by every other Jewish, or Muslim and Christian person.

YOU REALLY DO LIVE IN A FANTASY WORLD DONT YOU There will never be peace in the whole world while islam exists. The whole of history is full of massacres done by muslims, and there has never been a time that Lebanon has been prosperous under muslim rule.

Agreed about fantasy world, but disagreed about Islam. It's just a religion, a path to God. Most Muslims are peaceful. About .2% are not. The more we attack the innocent, the more likely they'll side with the radicals. The same happened with Christians under the Romans, Catholics, Protestants and Jews under various anti-religious regimes.

We need the help of the world's 1.6 BILLION Muslims in order to defeat the relatively few, but highly destructive radical Muslims.

"..Most Muslims are peaceful. About .2% are not..."

from the looks of it: you know who’s in charge of ….yemen, Pakistan, libya, afghanisan, syria...ETC...

(and Palestine) -

Tribal Leaders from the 7th Century.

​

Let’s not forget where it ALL begins:

All they have to do is ….have a meeting.

​

Tell me more………..about the 2%.....

​

​

​

 

[JoeB131]

So they support fanatically religious terrorists? That doesn't make sense.

Thanks for the antisemitic comment.

pointing out he was Jewish was an anti-semitic comment? Or that he was whiny and snivelly, but those were character flaws.

Okay, reality check. One man's "Terrorist" is another man's freedom fighter.

When Bin Laden was killing Russians in Afghanistan, Reagan called him a "Freedom Fighter". When he killed AMericans in New York, they called him a "Terrorist".

The thing is, the Palestinians are hardly "Jihadists". Reality was, back in the 1960's, the Zionists whined that the Palestinians were all a bunch of communists because that is what made the folks in Washington piss their beds at night. Now it's Jihadists.

IN reality, they are just folks who want these invaders off their fucking land.

 

[Challenger]

Cessation of hostilities and recognition of legitimacy has ALWAYS been a precondition to peace negotiations.

Do tell....

 

[Challenger]

Why are so many Left Wingers anti-Israel/Pro-Palestinian?

Maybe it's that sympathy for the underdog:

Zionist artillery

Palestinian artillery

Perhaps it's because Right wingers lap it up when Zionist Isreal says Palestinians are an existential threat to the Zionist paradise.

That's a lie. You know the Palestinians are using rockets and have used suicide bombers, not sling shots.

Seriously? You consider home made fireworks and explosive vests an existential threat to a country that has