NFL National Anthem Controversy Summed Up

[NYcarbineer]

I think what Mac is doing with his OP is addressing the disease itself and not the symptoms. Treating the symptoms without identifying the disease is like putting salve and a band aid on gangrene.

Yup. What concerns me a bit here is how many people are perfectly happy with the way things are going. That tells me that they've completely bought into their "side's" dogma and are willing to push this towards some conclusion - presumably the permanent "victory" of their "side".

I guess something like that is possible, but I think it's more likely it isn't, and that what remains won't be pretty.
.

Its just that some people can handle a diversity of opinions.

Others think that a diversity of opinions means their world's going to collapse.

Youre the latter, and so you sensationalize and strawman the former.

Mac is all for diversity until it gets in his way.

Mac's game is to vehemently disagree with those he believes vehemently disagree too much.

 

[G.T.]

I like the way shits going.

Racial tension's always been here, its nothing new.

Police forces, if you have your ear to it....are addressing their tactics. Installing body cameras, prosecuting via internal affairs more than ever.

There's no racial "rules" to where you can live or what businesses you can patron.

We 're still allowed to be as disrespectful to our NON Royal Politicians... with no legal recourse, as ever.

Violent Crime rates are on the average, to below average scale for all of the 2000s.

We are still electing both "sides" to office on a fluctuating scale.

The internet has made a diversity of opinions way more widespread, and easier to find.

Youtube's given more a voice, and at least a place to vent.

Science, and the futurists working in the field, are doing AMAZING things which will shape the world in a COMPLETELY different way, if you at all keep up with the modern advances. Specifically, computers and the brain sciences are merging.


This is literally the best time probably ever to live in America.

What you posted is exactly what needs communicated and actually might make a difference. I think that is what most find so frustrating. Everything that has been done, everything that has been accomplished, and everything we have to look forward to isn't apparently good enough. They want more.

They want more.

I suppose a world where black folks don't fear the police is too big of an ask.

The Police are addressing it, its not all that widespread either it just some bad eggs caught on tape and viral, but its caused the conversation and the attempted fix. Its a good thing.

When weed is fully legal, there will also be a lot less bullshit to harrass people over, and the lopsided incarceration figures for black folks will hopefully begin to subside.

 

[NightFox]

I suppose a world where black folks don't fear the police is too big of an ask.

Yep, in a world where black folks are constantly being told they should be afraid of police and police are constantly being told they should be afraid of black folks it is.

The inevitable result of constantly selling the masses on the idea that the exception is the rule is that the masses eventually buy it.

 

[G.T.]

I think what Mac is doing with his OP is addressing the disease itself and not the symptoms. Treating the symptoms without identifying the disease is like putting salve and a band aid on gangrene.

Yup. What concerns me a bit here is how many people are perfectly happy with the way things are going. That tells me that they've completely bought into their "side's" dogma and are willing to push this towards some conclusion - presumably the permanent "victory" of their "side".

I guess something like that is possible, but I think it's more likely it isn't, and that what remains won't be pretty.
.

Its just that some people can handle a diversity of opinions.

Others think that a diversity of opinions means their world's going to collapse.

Youre the latter, and so you sensationalize and strawman the former.

Mac is all for diversity until it gets in his way.

Mac's game is to vehemently disagree with those he believes vehemently disagree too much.

lol so spot on

 

[deanrd]

Come on people. This is a guy who did everything he could to keep from serving this country.

This is a man who stiffed people who worked for him.

This is a guy who cut off medical care for an infant because he was mad at his own kin.

He was able to find good in Nazi's, but can't in young people engaged in a silent protest? Over shooting unarmed people?

Every time Trump hits a new low, I'm astounded that his base supports him.

Meanwhile, millions are quickly running out of food and water and a nuclear powered country is announcing we are at war.

 

[Freewill]

I like the way shits going.

Racial tension's always been here, its nothing new.

Police forces, if you have your ear to it....are addressing their tactics. Installing body cameras, prosecuting via internal affairs more than ever.

There's no racial "rules" to where you can live or what businesses you can patron.

We 're still allowed to be as disrespectful to our NON Royal Politicians... with no legal recourse, as ever.

Violent Crime rates are on the average, to below average scale for all of the 2000s.

We are still electing both "sides" to office on a fluctuating scale.

The internet has made a diversity of opinions way more widespread, and easier to find.

Youtube's given more a voice, and at least a place to vent.

Science, and the futurists working in the field, are doing AMAZING things which will shape the world in a COMPLETELY different way, if you at all keep up with the modern advances. Specifically, computers and the brain sciences are merging.


This is literally the best time probably ever to live in America.

What you posted is exactly what needs communicated and actually might make a difference. I think that is what most find so frustrating. Everything that has been done, everything that has been accomplished, and everything we have to look forward to isn't apparently good enough. They want more.

They want more.

I suppose a world where black folks don't fear the police is too big of an ask.

You mean a day when blacks don't sell drugs, go on high speed chases or kill other blacks, I hope so.

 

[JoeB131]

the problem is that for both sides to unite someone has to eat their ideology. How does white America reconcile millionaire protesting by showing disrespect for the country, the flag and those who served in the military? It is not possible.

Except that's not what they are doing. YOu start out with a false premise, and argue the hell out of it.

They are protesting the fact that it is still considered acceptable for police officers to brutalize young black men for no good reason and suffer no consequences.

Now, it would be easy for these "millionaire" as you say, to continue to collect their fat paychecks and say nothing. Shit, that's what most of us would probably do.

Do I think cops should shoot unarmed blacks, no, I don't think they should shoot anyone unarmed, like happened to the white kid just the other day. Do I think blacks should sell drugs on the street corner? Hell no, but what can I do about it? Do I think that black men should abandon their families? Hell no but what am I to do about it? Maybe I could help with black illiteracy but I think that is a self motivation problem.

Why do you dodge the main point by bringing up other points. That's like a five year old who gets caught doing something he shouldn't be doing saying 'But Sally Picks her nose!"

Here is a solution. A poor person could live fairly well on 50K. Anyone can live very well on 1 million a year. So if those so concerned, black and white, kept 1 million for themselves and gave the rest to poor families then they would really be making a difference in a lot of lives. Communities could be rebuilt with that kinda money. For each million 20 families could be raised out of poverty. THAT would make a difference.

Okay, you are not going to undo 400 years of institutionalized racism by contributing a little charity.

 

[Mac1958]

You know this country has turned a corner when a person who advocates for communication, listening, and cooperation is called divisive.

I get your point but your style doesn't always convey the neutrality you think it might.

I dunno. I'm definitely frustrated and concerned. The way stuff comes across online may not always be accurate.
.

That is true.
Lately I've tried to start on middle ground and work out from there but there is soon a tsunami of crap that overwhelms any point.

Yeah. It can certainly be like grade school around here, and this thread is certainly no exception.

It does seem to me, though, that this behavior is spreading through our culture pretty rapidly.
.

 

[JoeB131]

Some of the reactions here are certainly illustrating my point.

everything illustrates your point.

You are like the joke about the guy who gets a Rorschach test and describes each image in the most lurid, sexual terms.

When the Shrink points out he's obsessed with sex, the man exclaims, "Me? You're the one with all the dirty pictures!!!"

 

[Freewill]

I get your point but your style doesn't always convey the neutrality you think it might.

I dunno. I'm definitely frustrated and concerned. The way stuff comes across online may not always be accurate.

.

Really mac, don't be frustrated do something meaningful. Invest in the black community, money talks, BS walks.

Um, the point of the thread isn't about just race. It's about a little more than that.
.

Now that is just damn funny. Avoid the issue and then lecture others, wow mac you are outdoing yourself today.

I'm not really sure what you want from me.

You're clearly convinced that you and your side have all the answers. Okay, go ahead, show us, lead the way. I'm nobody, I don't have all the answers like you.

Go ahead. "Beat" the "other side" and save the country. I'm sure you can.
.

NO, absolutely NOT. My "side" has no answers because we don't know the question. WTF do these NFL players want to answer their protest? WHAT? OK, I'll listen, is that going to make what bothers them better? Will my understanding make the black community safer?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Millions are out of food and water? What happened to the trillions we've spent on the Democrat "War on Poverty"?

 

[mudwhistle]

I like the way shits going.

Racial tension's always been here, its nothing new.

Police forces, if you have your ear to it....are addressing their tactics. Installing body cameras, prosecuting via internal affairs more than ever.

There's no racial "rules" to where you can live or what businesses you can patron.

We 're still allowed to be as disrespectful to our NON Royal Politicians... with no legal recourse, as ever.

Violent Crime rates are on the average, to below average scale for all of the 2000s.

We are still electing both "sides" to office on a fluctuating scale.

The internet has made a diversity of opinions way more widespread, and easier to find.

Youtube's given more a voice, and at least a place to vent.

Science, and the futurists working in the field, are doing AMAZING things which will shape the world in a COMPLETELY different way, if you at all keep up with the modern advances. Specifically, computers and the brain sciences are merging.


This is literally the best time probably ever to live in America.

What you posted is exactly what needs communicated and actually might make a difference. I think that is what most find so frustrating. Everything that has been done, everything that has been accomplished, and everything we have to look forward to isn't apparently good enough. They want more.

They want more.

I suppose a world where black folks don't fear the police is too big of an ask.

The only reason one fears the police is because you break the law.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I don't want to take away from the furious outrage that has once again gripped the country (this time over some guys in shoulder pads making a "statement"), but I'd just like to point out that this it's just another symptom of a much larger problem.

This country is fractured, it's in pieces, and it's a self-inflicted wound.

We can blame the "other guys" all we want, but our words and actions are our own. NO ONE is making us behave this way.

Those who want to see us divided are winning, big, and we're just being willing, obedient sheep in the whole thing.

We've become so controlled and paralyzed by our egos and our dogma and our rage that we've completely lost each other. And worse, we're willing participants. I wonder if we'll wake up before it's too late.
.

This forum is a perfect example of how split the country is, partisan hacks coming on day in day out and talking complete nonsense. But where did this nonsense come from? Probably from the rich people who control politics. The Koch brothers are spending millions of making sure their message gets out there, and it's working.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I like the way shits going.

Racial tension's always been here, its nothing new.

Police forces, if you have your ear to it....are addressing their tactics. Installing body cameras, prosecuting via internal affairs more than ever.

There's no racial "rules" to where you can live or what businesses you can patron.

We 're still allowed to be as disrespectful to our NON Royal Politicians... with no legal recourse, as ever.

Violent Crime rates are on the average, to below average scale for all of the 2000s.

We are still electing both "sides" to office on a fluctuating scale.

The internet has made a diversity of opinions way more widespread, and easier to find.

Youtube's given more a voice, and at least a place to vent.

Science, and the futurists working in the field, are doing AMAZING things which will shape the world in a COMPLETELY different way, if you at all keep up with the modern advances. Specifically, computers and the brain sciences are merging.


This is literally the best time probably ever to live in America.

What you posted is exactly what needs communicated and actually might make a difference. I think that is what most find so frustrating. Everything that has been done, everything that has been accomplished, and everything we have to look forward to isn't apparently good enough. They want more.

They want more.

I suppose a world where black folks don't fear the police is too big of an ask.

The only reason one fears the police is because you break the law.

Really? So, no one has ever been convicted of a crime they didn't commit.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

It's a symptom alright. A symptom of institutional racism. The same people who have outrage over a silent protest at a ball game are the very same people who have outrage over the idea that black lives matter.
No one is angry that anyone disrespected the flag, that's just the cover story. They're really angry that black men have the audacity to disrupt their entertainment.

An example of my point.
.

^An example of mine.

The players aren't dividing anyone. The media isn't dividing anyone. The NFL isn't dividing anyone. Those throwing the tantrum are the divisive ones. The most divisive of all is also the one with the most influence. Our president.

I don't want to take away from the furious outrage that has once again gripped the country (this time over some guys in shoulder pads making a "statement"), but I'd just like to point out that this it's just another symptom of a much larger problem.

You yourself are divisive. The way you clearly attempt to minimize the actions of the player-protesters as something not serious or otherwise frivilous by putting it in quotes is taking the position I outlined in my first post. The black guy is the problem. The black guy is divisive with their petty nonsense. No. It's your reaction and not the action that is divisive.

OK, let's say the show of disrespect by the NFL is all white America's fault. Exactly what would you have white America do? Let me guess, shut up.

Exactly what would you have white America do?

Listen.

Be open.

Listen to what? No one, or very very few, condone the shooting of blacks.

Open to what? Disrespect for the flag, the country and those who served, ain't gonna happen.

The problems with the black community are problems that ONLY the black community can solve. White America has more then bent over backwards to help them. It is time they listened and were open.

But of course you meant only white America needs to listen and be open.

^ The reaction is the division.

The flag has not a damned thing to do with this.

You simultaneously agree with the principle at the heart of the protest but lose your shit over the protest happening. You then become very defensive as if white people are being attacked. No one has attacked white people. I suggest that if you feel as if you're being attacked and that the mere suggestion that black folks may have problems that you don't feels divisive to you, that you look inwards to find why you feel this way.

 

[Freewill]

I like the way shits going.

Racial tension's always been here, its nothing new.

Police forces, if you have your ear to it....are addressing their tactics. Installing body cameras, prosecuting via internal affairs more than ever.

There's no racial "rules" to where you can live or what businesses you can patron.

We 're still allowed to be as disrespectful to our NON Royal Politicians... with no legal recourse, as ever.

Violent Crime rates are on the average, to below average scale for all of the 2000s.

We are still electing both "sides" to office on a fluctuating scale.

The internet has made a diversity of opinions way more widespread, and easier to find.

Youtube's given more a voice, and at least a place to vent.

Science, and the futurists working in the field, are doing AMAZING things which will shape the world in a COMPLETELY different way, if you at all keep up with the modern advances. Specifically, computers and the brain sciences are merging.


This is literally the best time probably ever to live in America.

What you posted is exactly what needs communicated and actually might make a difference. I think that is what most find so frustrating. Everything that has been done, everything that has been accomplished, and everything we have to look forward to isn't apparently good enough. They want more.

They want more.

I suppose a world where black folks don't fear the police is too big of an ask.

The only reason one fears the police is because you break the law.

Really? So, no one has ever been convicted of a crime they didn't commit.

And no one has ever got off for a crime they did commit?

 

[G.T.]

I don't want to take away from the furious outrage that has once again gripped the country (this time over some guys in shoulder pads making a "statement"), but I'd just like to point out that this it's just another symptom of a much larger problem.

This country is fractured, it's in pieces, and it's a self-inflicted wound.

We can blame the "other guys" all we want, but our words and actions are our own. NO ONE is making us behave this way.

Those who want to see us divided are winning, big, and we're just being willing, obedient sheep in the whole thing.

We've become so controlled and paralyzed by our egos and our dogma and our rage that we've completely lost each other. And worse, we're willing participants. I wonder if we'll wake up before it's too late.
.

This forum is a perfect example of how split the country is, partisan hacks coming on day in day out and talking complete nonsense. But where did this nonsense come from? Probably from the rich people who control politics. The Koch brothers are spending millions of making sure their message gets out there, and it's working.

There have been forums with politically vitriolic disagreements like this one since the internet came onto the scene man. Im an eye witness to it.


Its easier to accept this next phrase if you read it in a friendly Jamaican accent....


errr ting gown be arright, mun

 

[JoeB131]

No it isn't, you are being a divisive moron. I ask again, not platitudes, what in the hell do you want white America to do about some cop who shoots a black man?

1) Demand accountability from their police departments.
2) Fire the offending cops.
3) Send the offending cops to prison

That's what I think we should do.

WTF does it have to do with respect for the country, the flag, those who actually did serve?

I'm sorry, when did the flag become a religious relic? It's just a flag, at the end of the day.

What? A white man was unarmed and shot by a police officer just the other day, which happens more then blacks being shot, when is the riot, when does the 5 finger discount begin?

I'm guessing THAT cop will be held accountable. There will be a real investigation and not just sweeping it under the rug.

 

[Redfish]

The NFL players are doing what they feel is right, protesting how police act towards the citizens...The cops have decided to ignore complaints and so we have national protest...It's nothing new...We have had to protest their actions before and they need to get the message that just because they are law enforcement they do not get to act in any manner they so please..

bullshit. a few bad cops does not make all cops bad.

You want social justice? then lets pass a law that says that all sports teams have to have a racial makeup the matches the country. That would be "fair" as you libs describe fair.

So lets make sports fair. Recruit more white, Asians, arabs, and native americans for the NBA, NFL, NHL, and all other sports. Gotta be FAIR, cant let ability or skill determine who plays, right?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

If we are "divided" on this issue, it's because a large section of the population apparently thinks that it's okay for the police to shoot unarmed black people during traffic stops and misdemeanor arrests.

Simplistic as usual, that "large section of the population" doesn't think "it's okay for the police to shoot unarmed black people during traffic stops and misdemeanor arrests" because they don't see the incident(s) you're referring to in the way you characterize them. They're being fed propaganda at the same rate you are, just by different sources and neither you nor they have the first clue as to what is really going on.

Both sides are full of confirmation bias junkies that get off on the supposition that anyone that disagrees with you is evil, inhuman and immoral, the chattering classes know that and exploit it to the fullest.

seriously, fuck you and the pompous horse you rode in on.

Oh what light through yonder window breaks? it's the bright, shining flame of a pompous horse's ass calling the kettle black.

Simplistic as usual, that "large section of the population" doesn't think "it's okay for the police to shoot unarmed black people during traffic stops and misdemeanor arrests" because they don't see the incident(s) you're referring to in the way you characterize them.

Your right, a large section of the population has a problem with black folks having an opinion at all.
Certainly those folks know way better than black folks how the police interact with them.