NFL National Anthem Controversy Summed Up

[Hutch Starskey]

You know this country has turned a corner when a person who advocates for communication, listening, and cooperation is called divisive.

I get your point but your style doesn't always convey the neutrality you think it might.

 

[JoeB131]

I don't want to take away from the furious outrage that has once again gripped the country (this time over some guys in shoulder pads making a "statement"), but I'd just like to point out that this it's just another symptom of a much larger problem.

This country is fractured, it's in pieces, and it's a self-inflicted wound.

We can blame the "other guys" all we want, but our words and actions are our own. NO ONE is making us behave this way.

Those who want to see us divided are winning, big, and we're just being willing, obedient sheep in the whole thing.

We've become so controlled and paralyzed by our egos and our dogma and our rage that we've completely lost each other. And worse, we're willing participants. I wonder if we'll wake up before it's too late.

so is it the regressives, the PC Police or the vast Islamic Conspiracy.

If we are "divided" on this issue, it's because a large section of the population apparently thinks that it's okay for the police to shoot unarmed black people during traffic stops and misdemeanor arrests.

I'm happy to be divided from people who think that's in any way acceptable or okay or not something we want to address.

Mac's response "see, see, that's exactly what I'm talking about. The world doesn't understand my wisdom"...

seriously, fuck you and the pompous horse you rode in on.

 

[Freewill]

I think what Mac is doing with his OP is addressing the disease itself and not the symptoms. Treating the symptoms without identifying the disease is like putting salve and a band aid on gangrene.

Yup. What concerns me a bit here is how many people are perfectly happy with the way things are going. That tells me that they've completely bought into their "side's" dogma and are willing to push this towards some conclusion - presumably the permanent "victory" of their "side".

I guess something like that is possible, but I think it's more likely it isn't, and that what remains won't be pretty.
.

Its just that some people can handle a diversity of opinions.

Others think that a diversity of opinions means their world's going to collapse.

Youre the latter, and so you sensationalize and strawman the former.

Mac is all for diversity until it gets in his way.

 

[easyt65]

BACKLASH: Angry Fans Bombard NFL
Teams’ Facebook Pages With Negative Comments



Veterans’ Groups Blast NFL Players For
Disrespecting The American Flag


Yeah, the NFL just went where they really don't want to go...dragging politics into the sport.
They had every 'right' to do it...and the fans have every 'right' to respond by punishing them for it.

 

[Freewill]

I don't want to take away from the furious outrage that has once again gripped the country (this time over some guys in shoulder pads making a "statement"), but I'd just like to point out that this it's just another symptom of a much larger problem.

This country is fractured, it's in pieces, and it's a self-inflicted wound.

We can blame the "other guys" all we want, but our words and actions are our own. NO ONE is making us behave this way.

Those who want to see us divided are winning, big, and we're just being willing, obedient sheep in the whole thing.

We've become so controlled and paralyzed by our egos and our dogma and our rage that we've completely lost each other. And worse, we're willing participants. I wonder if we'll wake up before it's too late.

so is it the regressives, the PC Police or the vast Islamic Conspiracy.

If we are "divided" on this issue, it's because a large section of the population apparently thinks that it's okay for the police to shoot unarmed black people during traffic stops and misdemeanor arrests.

I'm happy to be divided from people who think that's in any way acceptable or okay or not something we want to address.

Mac's response "see, see, that's exactly what I'm talking about. The world doesn't understand my wisdom"...

seriously, fuck you and the pompous horse you rode in on.

NO, that is absolutely a lie straight from Hell but it does illustrate the real problem.

NO one thinks shooting an unarmed is right, NO ONE. Your lies are the fuel for what is going on in the country.

 

[Mac1958]

You know this country has turned a corner when a person who advocates for communication, listening, and cooperation is called divisive.

I get your point but your style doesn't always convey the neutrality you think it might.

I dunno. I'm definitely frustrated and concerned. The way stuff comes across online may not always be accurate.
.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I don't want to take away from the furious outrage that has once again gripped the country (this time over some guys in shoulder pads making a "statement"), but I'd just like to point out that this it's just another symptom of a much larger problem.

This country is fractured, it's in pieces, and it's a self-inflicted wound.

We can blame the "other guys" all we want, but our words and actions are our own. NO ONE is making us behave this way.

Those who want to see us divided are winning, big, and we're just being willing, obedient sheep in the whole thing.

We've become so controlled and paralyzed by our egos and our dogma and our rage that we've completely lost each other. And worse, we're willing participants. I wonder if we'll wake up before it's too late.
.

It's a symptom alright. A symptom of institutional racism. The same people who have outrage over a silent protest at a ball game are the very same people who have outrage over the idea that black lives matter.
No one is angry that anyone disrespected the flag, that's just the cover story. They're really angry that black men have the audacity to disrupt their entertainment.

An example of my point.
.

^An example of mine.

The players aren't dividing anyone. The media isn't dividing anyone. The NFL isn't dividing anyone. Those throwing the tantrum are the divisive ones. The most divisive of all is also the one with the most influence. Our president.

I don't want to take away from the furious outrage that has once again gripped the country (this time over some guys in shoulder pads making a "statement"), but I'd just like to point out that this it's just another symptom of a much larger problem.

You yourself are divisive. The way you clearly attempt to minimize the actions of the player-protesters as something not serious or otherwise frivilous by putting it in quotes is taking the position I outlined in my first post. The black guy is the problem. The black guy is divisive with their petty nonsense. No. It's your reaction and not the action that is divisive.

OK, let's say the show of disrespect by the NFL is all white America's fault. Exactly what would you have white America do? Let me guess, shut up.

Exactly what would you have white America do?

Listen.

Be open.

 

[G.T.]

I think what Mac is doing with his OP is addressing the disease itself and not the symptoms. Treating the symptoms without identifying the disease is like putting salve and a band aid on gangrene.

Yup. What concerns me a bit here is how many people are perfectly happy with the way things are going. That tells me that they've completely bought into their "side's" dogma and are willing to push this towards some conclusion - presumably the permanent "victory" of their "side".

I guess something like that is possible, but I think it's more likely it isn't, and that what remains won't be pretty.
.

Its just that some people can handle a diversity of opinions.

Others think that a diversity of opinions means their world's going to collapse.

Youre the latter, and so you sensationalize and strawman the former.

Mac is all for diversity until it gets in his way.

It seems like it.

He doesnt realize, but hollaring at "the left and right" about having opinions all day every day is just as divisive as being hardcore left or right.

Its not centerist, its a horse of a different color.

Im centerist in that I have some left, and some right opinions.

Mac thinks hes centerist in the fact that he freaks out that people actually disagree about stuff, at all.

 

[JoeB131]

to be clear - i DO NOT think trump should have said a damn thing. i hated it when obama had to weigh his nappy ass into every social situation

Nappy? Yeah, you guys who hated Obama weren't the least bit racist.

 

[Freewill]

I don't want to take away from the furious outrage that has once again gripped the country (this time over some guys in shoulder pads making a "statement"), but I'd just like to point out that this it's just another symptom of a much larger problem.

This country is fractured, it's in pieces, and it's a self-inflicted wound.

We can blame the "other guys" all we want, but our words and actions are our own. NO ONE is making us behave this way.

Those who want to see us divided are winning, big, and we're just being willing, obedient sheep in the whole thing.

We've become so controlled and paralyzed by our egos and our dogma and our rage that we've completely lost each other. And worse, we're willing participants. I wonder if we'll wake up before it's too late.
.

It's a symptom alright. A symptom of institutional racism. The same people who have outrage over a silent protest at a ball game are the very same people who have outrage over the idea that black lives matter.
No one is angry that anyone disrespected the flag, that's just the cover story. They're really angry that black men have the audacity to disrupt their entertainment.

An example of my point.
.

^An example of mine.

The players aren't dividing anyone. The media isn't dividing anyone. The NFL isn't dividing anyone. Those throwing the tantrum are the divisive ones. The most divisive of all is also the one with the most influence. Our president.

I don't want to take away from the furious outrage that has once again gripped the country (this time over some guys in shoulder pads making a "statement"), but I'd just like to point out that this it's just another symptom of a much larger problem.

You yourself are divisive. The way you clearly attempt to minimize the actions of the player-protesters as something not serious or otherwise frivilous by putting it in quotes is taking the position I outlined in my first post. The black guy is the problem. The black guy is divisive with their petty nonsense. No. It's your reaction and not the action that is divisive.

OK, let's say the show of disrespect by the NFL is all white America's fault. Exactly what would you have white America do? Let me guess, shut up.

Exactly what would you have white America do?

Listen.

Be open.

Listen to what? No one, or very very few, condone the shooting of blacks.

Open to what? Disrespect for the flag, the country and those who served, ain't gonna happen.

The problems with the black community are problems that ONLY the black community can solve. White America has more then bent over backwards to help them. It is time they listened and were open.

But of course you meant only white America needs to listen and be open.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

You know this country has turned a corner when a person who advocates for communication, listening, and cooperation is called divisive.

I get your point but your style doesn't always convey the neutrality you think it might.

I dunno. I'm definitely frustrated and concerned. The way stuff comes across online may not always be accurate.
.

That is true.
Lately I've tried to start on middle ground and work out from there but there is soon a tsunami of crap that overwhelms any point.

 

[Freewill]

You know this country has turned a corner when a person who advocates for communication, listening, and cooperation is called divisive.

I get your point but your style doesn't always convey the neutrality you think it might.

I dunno. I'm definitely frustrated and concerned. The way stuff comes across online may not always be accurate.
.

Really mac, don't be frustrated do something meaningful. Invest in the black community, money talks, BS walks.

 

[Mac1958]

You know this country has turned a corner when a person who advocates for communication, listening, and cooperation is called divisive.

I get your point but your style doesn't always convey the neutrality you think it might.

I dunno. I'm definitely frustrated and concerned. The way stuff comes across online may not always be accurate.
.

Really mac, don't be frustrated do something meaningful. Invest in the black community, money talks, BS walks.

Um, the point of the thread isn't about just race. It's about a little more than that.
.

 

[mudwhistle]

I don't want to take away from the furious outrage that has once again gripped the country (this time over some guys in shoulder pads making a "statement"), but I'd just like to point out that this it's just another symptom of a much larger problem.

This country is fractured, it's in pieces, and it's a self-inflicted wound.

We can blame the "other guys" all we want, but our words and actions are our own. NO ONE is making us behave this way.

Those who want to see us divided are winning, big, and we're just being willing, obedient sheep in the whole thing.

We've become so controlled and paralyzed by our egos and our dogma and our rage that we've completely lost each other. And worse, we're willing participants. I wonder if we'll wake up before it's too late.
.

This is what the left does wherever they go.
Liberals have nothing good to offer the world. Nothing but but hate, division, and chaos.

 

[Freewill]

You know this country has turned a corner when a person who advocates for communication, listening, and cooperation is called divisive.

I get your point but your style doesn't always convey the neutrality you think it might.

I dunno. I'm definitely frustrated and concerned. The way stuff comes across online may not always be accurate.
.

Really mac, don't be frustrated do something meaningful. Invest in the black community, money talks, BS walks.

Um, the point of the thread isn't about just race. It's about a little more than that.
.

Now that is just damn funny. Avoid the issue and then lecture others, wow mac you are outdoing yourself today.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I like the way shits going.

Racial tension's always been here, its nothing new.

Police forces, if you have your ear to it....are addressing their tactics. Installing body cameras, prosecuting via internal affairs more than ever.

There's no racial "rules" to where you can live or what businesses you can patron.

We 're still allowed to be as disrespectful to our NON Royal Politicians... with no legal recourse, as ever.

Violent Crime rates are on the average, to below average scale for all of the 2000s.

We are still electing both "sides" to office on a fluctuating scale.

The internet has made a diversity of opinions way more widespread, and easier to find.

Youtube's given more a voice, and at least a place to vent.

Science, and the futurists working in the field, are doing AMAZING things which will shape the world in a COMPLETELY different way, if you at all keep up with the modern advances. Specifically, computers and the brain sciences are merging.


This is literally the best time probably ever to live in America.

What you posted is exactly what needs communicated and actually might make a difference. I think that is what most find so frustrating. Everything that has been done, everything that has been accomplished, and everything we have to look forward to isn't apparently good enough. They want more.

They want more.

I suppose a world where black folks don't fear the police is too big of an ask.

 

[NightFox]

If we are "divided" on this issue, it's because a large section of the population apparently thinks that it's okay for the police to shoot unarmed black people during traffic stops and misdemeanor arrests.

Simplistic as usual, that "large section of the population" doesn't think "it's okay for the police to shoot unarmed black people during traffic stops and misdemeanor arrests" because they don't see the incident(s) you're referring to in the way you characterize them. They're being fed propaganda at the same rate you are, just by different sources and neither you nor they have the first clue as to what is really going on.

Both sides are full of confirmation bias junkies that get off on the supposition that anyone that disagrees with you is evil, inhuman and immoral, the chattering classes know that and exploit it to the fullest.

seriously, fuck you and the pompous horse you rode in on.

Oh what light through yonder window breaks? it's the bright, shining flame of a pompous horse's ass calling the kettle black.

 

[Mac1958]

You know this country has turned a corner when a person who advocates for communication, listening, and cooperation is called divisive.

I get your point but your style doesn't always convey the neutrality you think it might.

I dunno. I'm definitely frustrated and concerned. The way stuff comes across online may not always be accurate.
.

Really mac, don't be frustrated do something meaningful. Invest in the black community, money talks, BS walks.

Um, the point of the thread isn't about just race. It's about a little more than that.
.

Now that is just damn funny. Avoid the issue and then lecture others, wow mac you are outdoing yourself today.

I'm not really sure what you want from me.

You're clearly convinced that you and your side have all the answers. Okay, go ahead, show us, lead the way. I'm nobody, I don't have all the answers like you.

Go ahead. "Beat" the "other side" and save the country. I'm sure you can.
.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I don't want to take away from the furious outrage that has once again gripped the country (this time over some guys in shoulder pads making a "statement"), but I'd just like to point out that this it's just another symptom of a much larger problem.

This country is fractured, it's in pieces, and it's a self-inflicted wound.

We can blame the "other guys" all we want, but our words and actions are our own. NO ONE is making us behave this way.

Those who want to see us divided are winning, big, and we're just being willing, obedient sheep in the whole thing.

We've become so controlled and paralyzed by our egos and our dogma and our rage that we've completely lost each other. And worse, we're willing participants. I wonder if we'll wake up before it's too late.

so is it the regressives, the PC Police or the vast Islamic Conspiracy.

If we are "divided" on this issue, it's because a large section of the population apparently thinks that it's okay for the police to shoot unarmed black people during traffic stops and misdemeanor arrests.

I'm happy to be divided from people who think that's in any way acceptable or okay or not something we want to address.

Mac's response "see, see, that's exactly what I'm talking about. The world doesn't understand my wisdom"...

seriously, fuck you and the pompous horse you rode in on.

NO, that is absolutely a lie straight from Hell but it does illustrate the real problem.

NO one thinks shooting an unarmed is right, NO ONE. Your lies are the fuel for what is going on in the country.

NO one thinks shooting an unarmed is right, NO ONE. Your lies are the fuel for what is going on in the country.

So what's your beef then?
If you agree with the principle then why disagree with the protest?

 

[JoeB131]

There are people who say that this is essentially normal, that we've always been divided. Yes, there have always been divisions, but they're ignoring the significance of degree here. The divisions are deeper and wider right now, and clearly growing by the day. The bigger problem, to me, is that there is virtually no one trying to step into the breach and trying to promote healing.

why should we?

Look, the people who elected the Orange Shitgibbon did so because of their own racism, misogyny and Islamophobia. When people do stupid stuff out of FEAR, you don't feed their fears by telling them, they might have a point.

The people who voted for the Orange Shitgibbon are going to figure out he can't bring back the jobs - in fact, unemployment WILL get worse on his watch - then maybe we can get around to talking about real solutions to the problem.

In the meantime, I'm happy for Trump and his supporters to expose their ugliness.