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Due process is some trivial obstacle when progressives think they are doing the "right thing."
Show me that in the proposed bill and I'll join you. I won't jump off the cliff because "somebody" said it was in there.
- Clarifies that submissions of mental health records into the NICS system are not prohibited by federal privacy laws (HIPAA)
The Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act | Pat Toomey | Senator for Pennsylvania
A little different than you original presentation. But I support the proposal. It pronounces no one "guilty without due process" as you suggest. Having a mental illness doesn't make you guilty - it just could mean you don't need to own a gun.
This common NRA tactic - to kneecap the enforcement arm of common sense regulation (see Tiahrt amendment Tiahrt Amendment Facts | ProtectPolice.org) - and then cry "we don't need NEW regulation, just enforce the regulations we already have in place" is so short-sighted and a big part of the problem. It prompts so many people to THINK we need new regulations - because the effectiveness of current regulations is destroyed by removing the ability to enforce.
Just about everyone can agree that those suffering from many types of severe mental illness should not be allowed to purchase guns. So to get around that, the NRA just attacks the ability to enforce that common-sense rule. And they attack it with the flawed "slippery-slope" argument of what "could" happen.
Any law can be made onerous by corrupt enforcement. It is no reason to pass no laws. It is a reason to monitor enforcement.
With all due respect, I would encourage folks to support the proposal. And I applaud the NRA chief coming out in support of mental health reporting.
Due process is some trivial obstacle when progressives think they are doing the "right thing."
Show me that in the proposed bill and I'll join you. I won't jump off the cliff because "somebody" said it was in there.
- Clarifies that submissions of mental health records into the NICS system are not prohibited by federal privacy laws (HIPAA)
The Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act | Pat Toomey | Senator for Pennsylvania
A little different than you original presentation. But I support the proposal. It pronounces no one "guilty without due process" as you suggest. Having a mental illness doesn't make you guilty - it just could mean you don't need to own a gun.
This common NRA tactic - to kneecap the enforcement arm of common sense regulation (see Tiahrt amendment Tiahrt Amendment Facts | ProtectPolice.org) - and then cry "we don't need NEW regulation, just enforce the regulations we already have in place" is so short-sighted and a big part of the problem. It prompts so many people to THINK we need new regulations - because the effectiveness of current regulations is destroyed by removing the ability to enforce.
Just about everyone can agree that those suffering from many types of severe mental illness should not be allowed to purchase guns. So to get around that, the NRA just attacks the ability to enforce that common-sense rule. And they attack it with the flawed "slippery-slope" argument of what "could" happen.
Any law can be made onerous by corrupt enforcement. It is no reason to pass no laws. It is a reason to monitor enforcement.
With all due respect, I would encourage folks to support the proposal. And I applaud the NRA chief coming out in support of mental health reporting.
- Clarifies that submissions of mental health records into the NICS system are not prohibited by federal privacy laws (HIPAA)
The Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act | Pat Toomey | Senator for Pennsylvania
A little different than you original presentation. But I support the proposal. It pronounces no one "guilty without due process" as you suggest. Having a mental illness doesn't make you guilty - it just could mean you don't need to own a gun.
This common NRA tactic - to kneecap the enforcement arm of common sense regulation (see Tiahrt amendment Tiahrt Amendment Facts | ProtectPolice.org) - and then cry "we don't need NEW regulation, just enforce the regulations we already have in place" is so short-sighted and a big part of the problem. It prompts so many people to THINK we need new regulations - because the effectiveness of current regulations is destroyed by removing the ability to enforce.
Just about everyone can agree that those suffering from many types of severe mental illness should not be allowed to purchase guns. So to get around that, the NRA just attacks the ability to enforce that common-sense rule. And they attack it with the flawed "slippery-slope" argument of what "could" happen.
Any law can be made onerous by corrupt enforcement. It is no reason to pass no laws. It is a reason to monitor enforcement.
With all due respect, I would encourage folks to support the proposal. And I applaud the NRA chief coming out in support of mental health reporting.
the NRA only supports it if the person is deemed mentally deficient by a court, not some bean counter burecrat inside some labyrinthine government agency.
Having your doctor place you on some database is not due process. Rights can only be removed via court action, not a phone call.
Due process is some trivial obstacle when progressives think they are doing the "right thing."
I know you right wingers blame liberals and progressives for everything, including your constipation.
BUT...
The NRA wants an active mental illness database.
December 21, 2012
In his Friday morning news conference, National Rifle Association chief executive Wayne LaPierre floated the idea of a national registry of the mentally ill as one way to stem gun violence.
How can we possibly even guess how many, given our nations refusal to create an active national database of the mentally ill? he asked.
Washington Post
Yes, but only for those adjudicated as mentally ill, thus preserving due process. Having your doctor be able to inform some government executive agency that could then by fiat remove your 2nd amendment rights is not due process.
tell your senators to vote no to Toomey-Manchin Proposal
The proposal will allow a doctor to add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.
There would be no due process requirement. Not all doctors will be able to do it with the same ease, but many will. Knowing a doctor could add him to a federal database as mentally ill without his knowledge could potentially dissuade a patient from going to the doctor in the first place to get help.
Worse, if the doctor does so and makes a mistake, the patient would have to actively work through the system to get himself removed guilty before being proven innocent. In some states, should a doctor flag you as having mental illness without your knowledge, you may very well see the state come collect your previously purchased guns.
Activist mental health providers will probably be overly aggressive in adding people to the list. Give it five years in liberal areas and people who believe in the physical resurrection of Christ will probably get automatic entry onto the list.
The Toomey-Manchin Proposal Will Allow Doctors to Block Your Right to Guns | RedState
Due process is some trivial obstacle when progressives think they are doing the "right thing."
I know you right wingers blame liberals and progressives for everything, including your constipation.
BUT...
The NRA wants an active mental illness database.
December 21, 2012
In his Friday morning news conference, National Rifle Association chief executive Wayne LaPierre floated the idea of a national registry of the mentally ill as one way to stem gun violence.
How can we possibly even guess how many, given our nations refusal to create an active national database of the mentally ill? he asked.
Washington Post
Didn't John Lennon end a song with words close to that...........and some gun-loving BASTARD shot him for it?I would say that someone who is violently ill is a teabagger who thinks that government should balance budgets. Also, anyone who believes in an invisible God would probably also fit the bill.
Now where did I put that straight jacket.......
one has to wonder
why does this need to be in the bill
if due process is followed
>>Provides a legal process for a veteran to contest his/her placement in NICS when there is no basis for barring the right to own a firearm.<<
I envision a progressive utopia where just saying something politically incorrect will land you on a "list" where people will refuse to hire you.
Imagine. Maybe someday you will join them, and the world will be one.......
Amazing. The bill hasn't even been filed yet, let alone been posted on the Senate homepage (I just looked) and y'all already know all about it. All you have to go on is somebody's OPINION of what MIGHT be in it and you're off to the races!
This is how you get manipulated and you're all a willing participant in it.
Amazing. The bill hasn't even been filed yet, let alone been posted on the Senate homepage (I just looked) and y'all already know all about it. All you have to go on is somebody's OPINION of what MIGHT be in it and you're off to the races!
This is how you get manipulated and you're all a willing participant in it.
Now is the time to raise hell about it you ignorant parrot. It's too late to do anything once it's law, or haven't you noticed that about Obamacare?
Already told my senators Cruz and Cornyn to stop this horrid bill. 80 percent of calls coming in are against every aspect of the bill.
Already told my senators Cruz and Cornyn to stop this horrid bill. 80 percent of calls coming in are against every aspect of the bill.
How can they be against every aspect of this bill when nobody has yet seen the bill?
I guarantee you all those phone calls, letters and e-mails are being ignored and will remain ignored until Cornyn and Cruz know what's in it too.
People are jumping the gun and proving once again how easily public opinion can be manipulated by charlatan's. Ring the bell and the dogs respond. It's incredible.
- Clarifies that submissions of mental health records into the NICS system are not prohibited by federal privacy laws (HIPAA)
The Public Safety and Second Amendment Rights Protection Act | Pat Toomey | Senator for Pennsylvania
From your link:
"...and the violently mentally ill..."
Much depends upon the bill's definition of "violently mentally ill," but on the face of it, I'd say your original source is getting all exercised over what MIGHT be, not what's actually in the bill.
I still think I'll wait until I can read the bill myself.
I would say that someone who is violently ill is a teabagger who thinks that government should balance budgets. Also, anyone who believes in an invisible God would probably also fit the bill.
Now where did I put that straight jacket.......
Already told my senators Cruz and Cornyn to stop this horrid bill. 80 percent of calls coming in are against every aspect of the bill.
How can they be against every aspect of this bill when nobody has yet seen the bill?
I guarantee you all those phone calls, letters and e-mails are being ignored and will remain ignored until Cornyn and Cruz know what's in it too.
People are jumping the gun and proving once again how easily public opinion can be manipulated by charlatan's. Ring the bell and the dogs respond. It's incredible.
There are several versions however no amendments yet. Anyway, we don't more gun laws. Glad the overwhelming majority can see through this facade.
Called my two senators, Chambliss and Isakson. They promised to push it through. Said 95% of callers favor it.
Amazing. The bill hasn't even been filed yet, let alone been posted on the Senate homepage (I just looked) and y'all already know all about it. All you have to go on is somebody's OPINION of what MIGHT be in it and you're off to the races!
This is how you get manipulated and you're all a willing participant in it.
Nothing amazing about it. IF you wait till the actual bill itself is released then its too late, its likely that it already passed.
tell your senators to vote no to Toomey-Manchin Proposal
The proposal will allow a doctor to add a patient to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) without ever telling the patient he or she has been added.
There would be no due process requirement. Not all doctors will be able to do it with the same ease, but many will. Knowing a doctor could add him to a federal database as mentally ill without his knowledge could potentially dissuade a patient from going to the doctor in the first place to get help.
Worse, if the doctor does so and makes a mistake, the patient would have to actively work through the system to get himself removed guilty before being proven innocent. In some states, should a doctor flag you as having mental illness without your knowledge, you may very well see the state come collect your previously purchased guns.
Activist mental health providers will probably be overly aggressive in adding people to the list. Give it five years in liberal areas and people who believe in the physical resurrection of Christ will probably get automatic entry onto the list.
The Toomey-Manchin Proposal Will Allow Doctors to Block Your Right to Guns | RedState
