No Mr. President. No.

[Pogo]

H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?

Yeah, no. POTUS can't do that. Governors shut the streets down, not Rump.
We can thank our lucky stars, however few we have left, for that.

Less than 700 people have died of the China virus in the U.S. as of today. Should that justify all that has been done in your opinion?

Actually it's 782 but that's how fast it's happening isn't it.

Deaths don't justify all that's being done. The potential does that. The potential for a pandemic to become so ubiquitous that there is no escape. You slow that down by denying it chances to spread. That's what's going on now. You don't isolate/separate people because you have X number dead. You do it because you don't want 100X, 1000X or 1000000X. Is it an adjustment? Bigly. Man up.

I worked in Healthcare for over 25 years including the last 7 in a big city ER. You don't know wtf you're talking about. It's the fucking flu. We have it every year. The ridiculous hysteria needs to stop.

Pffft. I worked in healthcare longer than that, so enough "now show me yours" crapola. Not interested. This is about logic --- what works and what doesn't. It is NOT the "fucking flu", for which we have vaccines, it's way more contagious (R0=2.5) and it IS expanding exponentially. And the counteraction to that, in the limited experience we have, is to shut down and shut in. I posted this before but here's how a town in Italy did it. They literally tested everybody, symptomatic or not, and found that there's a TON of spreading going on from carriers who show no symptoms at all. That means it could literally be anywhere, and you can't tell by testing only the symptomatic. That town got infected, I believe they reported the first death in that country, and then they got rid of it. We ignore lessons like that at our own peril.

I don't believe you. As for seasonal flu the vaccines often are not effective. They are pure guess work season to season. The contagion rate of Covid-19 is not 2.5 it is 2, identical to the seasonal flu.

The hysteria needs to stop.

Whelp --- I've got 2.5 and here's my link. Believe it.

More microbiology detail here if you're interested.

I posted a link and tagged you that says 2. Regardless 2 or 2.5 in right in line with seasonal flu. Measles has a contagion factor of 18 to put your number in perspective.

H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?

Any clues?

Yep. Looka here.

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
USA	85,268	+17,057	1,293	+266	1,864	82,111	2,122	258	4
China	81,285		3,287		74,051	3,947	1,235	56	2
Italy	80,589	+6,203	8,215	+712	10,361	62,013	3,612	1,333	136
Spain	57,786	+8,271	4,365	+718	7,015	46,406	3,166	1,236	93
Germany	43,938	+6,615	267	+61	5,673	37,998	23	524	3
Iran	29,406	+2,389	2,234	+157	10,457	16,715	2,746	350	27
France	29,155	+3,922	1,696	+365	4,948	22,511	3,375	447	26
Switzerland	11,811	+914	191	+38	131	11,489	141	1,365	22
UK	11,658	+2,129	578	+115	135	10,945	163	172	9

See that penultimate column on infection penetration, "Tot Cases/1M pop"? At 258?

This past Saturday that same number was 60. At the Ides of March it was 6.

You can also see the number under "New Cases" or note that we're leading the world, well ahead of China and Italy, in total cases, but I think the penetration number is the most significant due to how exponentially it's growing.

Add to this that the number of actually infected is an unknown, and that because up to half of those infected show no symptoms, they can and do spread contagion unwittingly, and it would be surprising if that rate were not happening as fast as it is.

And by the way we have a vaccine for Measles. For this we don't. And that's a YUGE difference maker when it comes to talking contagion.

Those numbers are a tiny fraction of the impact of H1N1. You know this or should and yet you cannot bring yourself to admit it. H1N1 had up to 1 billion cases worldwide. Almost 300,000 died worldwide.

2009 swine flu pandemic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My specific question was this: H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?


Care to try and answer again and maybe this time try and be honest. Covid-19 is a tiny fraction of H1N1 at this point. That cannot be argued. So why the mass hysteria this time?

Do I just need to put it in big bold fonts? Is that what you want? Are you hard of seeing? Or was the answer just inconvenient?

Because it's still gonna be the same answer. Watch this.

Here's (the relevant part of) my post from exactly two days ago, 48 hours, right down to the time mark. I put these here exactly so that they WILL show a time mark. These charts are always the then-current stats:

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
China	81,218	+47	3,281	+4	73,650	4,287	1,399	56	2
Italy	69,176		6,820		8,326	54,030	3,393	1,144	113
USA	60,653	+5,797	819	+39	387	59,447	1,307	183	2
Spain	47,610	+5,552	3,434	+443	5,367	38,809	2,636	1,018	73
Germany	35,740	+2,749	186	+27	3,540	32,014	23	427	2
Iran	27,017	+2,206	2,077	+143	9,625	15,315		322	25
France	22,304		1,100		3,281	17,923	2,516	342	17
Switzerland	10,537	+660	149	+27	131	10,257	141	1,217	17
S. Korea	9,137	+100	126	+6	3,730	5,281	59	178	2
UK	8,227	+150	433	+11	135	7,659	20	121	6

Now compare that with the current picture, 48 hours later:

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
USA	93,329	+7,894	1,384	+89	2,424	89,521	2,432	282	4
Italy	86,498	+5,909	9,134	+919	10,950	66,414	3,732	1,431	151
China	81,340	+55	3,292	+5	74,588	3,460	1,034	57	2
Spain	64,059	+6,273	4,934	+569	9,357	49,768	4,165	1,370	106
Germany	49,344	+5,406	304	+37	5,673	43,367	23	589	4
Iran	32,332	+2,926	2,378	+144	11,133	18,821	2,893	385	28

Looks like ~33,000 NEW infections, double the rate of death/population, an increase of ~100 infection penetration. That's not a grand total, that's just forty-eight hours. You do understand what "forty-eight hours" means, right? Should I type is as forty-eight hours? See it now?

Now inasmuch as this topic is about pulling out all the stops on public safety, here are some sobering animated projections in map forms, and graphs, of what happens with stronger versus weaker versions of clicking one's shoes together and hoping it just goes away because money.

If the concept "forty-eight hours" is elusive, let's put it this way.

Thirty-three thousand NEW cases just in that period is more than Iran has recorded IN TOTAL. And Iran is one of the most infected countries. Get it now?

H1N1 had a billion cases worldwide and almost 300,000 deaths. I have mentioned this three times now and you convienently ignore it. Why? I am making a simple comparison. I know you understand this and yet you keep avoiding the comparison which tells me all I need to know.

The hysteria is not justified and is in large part political. You are dismissed.

Because it's got nothing to do with the present, that's why.

You asked "why the hysteria", about the PRESENT. I answered. Then you asked again as if you didn't hear. You got the same answer. Wanna go again?

Here, I'll go ahead and give you the answer first.

Compare the chart posted exactly five and a half hours ago in post 37...

With the current one:

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
USA	101,321	+15,886	1,567	+272	2,465	97,289	2,463	306	5

in five and a half hours, eight thousand more infections, two hundred more dead, and our infection penetration has gone up to 306. In 330 minutes. Notice also that since you posted there were "less [sic] that 700 deaths" that number has more than doubled.

I don't know (or care) what answer it is you WANT. I gave you the answer THERE IS. You asked for my opinion, and you got it.

 

[WelfareQueen]

H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?

Yeah, no. POTUS can't do that. Governors shut the streets down, not Rump.
We can thank our lucky stars, however few we have left, for that.

Less than 700 people have died of the China virus in the U.S. as of today. Should that justify all that has been done in your opinion?

Actually it's 782 but that's how fast it's happening isn't it.

Deaths don't justify all that's being done. The potential does that. The potential for a pandemic to become so ubiquitous that there is no escape. You slow that down by denying it chances to spread. That's what's going on now. You don't isolate/separate people because you have X number dead. You do it because you don't want 100X, 1000X or 1000000X. Is it an adjustment? Bigly. Man up.

I worked in Healthcare for over 25 years including the last 7 in a big city ER. You don't know wtf you're talking about. It's the fucking flu. We have it every year. The ridiculous hysteria needs to stop.

Pffft. I worked in healthcare longer than that, so enough "now show me yours" crapola. Not interested. This is about logic --- what works and what doesn't. It is NOT the "fucking flu", for which we have vaccines, it's way more contagious (R0=2.5) and it IS expanding exponentially. And the counteraction to that, in the limited experience we have, is to shut down and shut in. I posted this before but here's how a town in Italy did it. They literally tested everybody, symptomatic or not, and found that there's a TON of spreading going on from carriers who show no symptoms at all. That means it could literally be anywhere, and you can't tell by testing only the symptomatic. That town got infected, I believe they reported the first death in that country, and then they got rid of it. We ignore lessons like that at our own peril.

I don't believe you. As for seasonal flu the vaccines often are not effective. They are pure guess work season to season. The contagion rate of Covid-19 is not 2.5 it is 2, identical to the seasonal flu.

The hysteria needs to stop.

Whelp --- I've got 2.5 and here's my link. Believe it.

More microbiology detail here if you're interested.

I posted a link and tagged you that says 2. Regardless 2 or 2.5 in right in line with seasonal flu. Measles has a contagion factor of 18 to put your number in perspective.

H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?

Any clues?

Yep. Looka here.

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
USA	85,268	+17,057	1,293	+266	1,864	82,111	2,122	258	4
China	81,285		3,287		74,051	3,947	1,235	56	2
Italy	80,589	+6,203	8,215	+712	10,361	62,013	3,612	1,333	136
Spain	57,786	+8,271	4,365	+718	7,015	46,406	3,166	1,236	93
Germany	43,938	+6,615	267	+61	5,673	37,998	23	524	3
Iran	29,406	+2,389	2,234	+157	10,457	16,715	2,746	350	27
France	29,155	+3,922	1,696	+365	4,948	22,511	3,375	447	26
Switzerland	11,811	+914	191	+38	131	11,489	141	1,365	22
UK	11,658	+2,129	578	+115	135	10,945	163	172	9

See that penultimate column on infection penetration, "Tot Cases/1M pop"? At 258?

This past Saturday that same number was 60. At the Ides of March it was 6.

You can also see the number under "New Cases" or note that we're leading the world, well ahead of China and Italy, in total cases, but I think the penetration number is the most significant due to how exponentially it's growing.

Add to this that the number of actually infected is an unknown, and that because up to half of those infected show no symptoms, they can and do spread contagion unwittingly, and it would be surprising if that rate were not happening as fast as it is.

And by the way we have a vaccine for Measles. For this we don't. And that's a YUGE difference maker when it comes to talking contagion.

Those numbers are a tiny fraction of the impact of H1N1. You know this or should and yet you cannot bring yourself to admit it. H1N1 had up to 1 billion cases worldwide. Almost 300,000 died worldwide.

2009 swine flu pandemic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My specific question was this: H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?


Care to try and answer again and maybe this time try and be honest. Covid-19 is a tiny fraction of H1N1 at this point. That cannot be argued. So why the mass hysteria this time?

Do I just need to put it in big bold fonts? Is that what you want? Are you hard of seeing? Or was the answer just inconvenient?

Because it's still gonna be the same answer. Watch this.

Here's (the relevant part of) my post from exactly two days ago, 48 hours, right down to the time mark. I put these here exactly so that they WILL show a time mark. These charts are always the then-current stats:

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
China	81,218	+47	3,281	+4	73,650	4,287	1,399	56	2
Italy	69,176		6,820		8,326	54,030	3,393	1,144	113
USA	60,653	+5,797	819	+39	387	59,447	1,307	183	2
Spain	47,610	+5,552	3,434	+443	5,367	38,809	2,636	1,018	73
Germany	35,740	+2,749	186	+27	3,540	32,014	23	427	2
Iran	27,017	+2,206	2,077	+143	9,625	15,315		322	25
France	22,304		1,100		3,281	17,923	2,516	342	17
Switzerland	10,537	+660	149	+27	131	10,257	141	1,217	17
S. Korea	9,137	+100	126	+6	3,730	5,281	59	178	2
UK	8,227	+150	433	+11	135	7,659	20	121	6

Now compare that with the current picture, 48 hours later:

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
USA	93,329	+7,894	1,384	+89	2,424	89,521	2,432	282	4
Italy	86,498	+5,909	9,134	+919	10,950	66,414	3,732	1,431	151
China	81,340	+55	3,292	+5	74,588	3,460	1,034	57	2
Spain	64,059	+6,273	4,934	+569	9,357	49,768	4,165	1,370	106
Germany	49,344	+5,406	304	+37	5,673	43,367	23	589	4
Iran	32,332	+2,926	2,378	+144	11,133	18,821	2,893	385	28

Looks like ~33,000 NEW infections, double the rate of death/population, an increase of ~100 infection penetration. That's not a grand total, that's just forty-eight hours. You do understand what "forty-eight hours" means, right? Should I type is as forty-eight hours? See it now?

Now inasmuch as this topic is about pulling out all the stops on public safety, here are some sobering animated projections in map forms, and graphs, of what happens with stronger versus weaker versions of clicking one's shoes together and hoping it just goes away because money.

If the concept "forty-eight hours" is elusive, let's put it this way.

Thirty-three thousand NEW cases just in that period is more than Iran has recorded IN TOTAL. And Iran is one of the most infected countries. Get it now?

H1N1 had a billion cases worldwide and almost 300,000 deaths. I have mentioned this three times now and you convienently ignore it. Why? I am making a simple comparison. I know you understand this and yet you keep avoiding the comparison which tells me all I need to know.

The hysteria is not justified and is in large part political. You are dismissed.

Because it's got nothing to do with the present, that's why.

You asked "why the hysteria", about the PRESENT. I answered. Then you asked again as if you didn't hear. You got the same answer. Wanna go again?

Why was there not the same level oh hysteria with H1N1. It inflected and killed far more people. It is a very valid question. If you are afraid of the question than just say so.

 

[Pogo]

H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?

Yeah, no. POTUS can't do that. Governors shut the streets down, not Rump.
We can thank our lucky stars, however few we have left, for that.

Less than 700 people have died of the China virus in the U.S. as of today. Should that justify all that has been done in your opinion?

Actually it's 782 but that's how fast it's happening isn't it.

Deaths don't justify all that's being done. The potential does that. The potential for a pandemic to become so ubiquitous that there is no escape. You slow that down by denying it chances to spread. That's what's going on now. You don't isolate/separate people because you have X number dead. You do it because you don't want 100X, 1000X or 1000000X. Is it an adjustment? Bigly. Man up.

I worked in Healthcare for over 25 years including the last 7 in a big city ER. You don't know wtf you're talking about. It's the fucking flu. We have it every year. The ridiculous hysteria needs to stop.

Pffft. I worked in healthcare longer than that, so enough "now show me yours" crapola. Not interested. This is about logic --- what works and what doesn't. It is NOT the "fucking flu", for which we have vaccines, it's way more contagious (R0=2.5) and it IS expanding exponentially. And the counteraction to that, in the limited experience we have, is to shut down and shut in. I posted this before but here's how a town in Italy did it. They literally tested everybody, symptomatic or not, and found that there's a TON of spreading going on from carriers who show no symptoms at all. That means it could literally be anywhere, and you can't tell by testing only the symptomatic. That town got infected, I believe they reported the first death in that country, and then they got rid of it. We ignore lessons like that at our own peril.

I don't believe you. As for seasonal flu the vaccines often are not effective. They are pure guess work season to season. The contagion rate of Covid-19 is not 2.5 it is 2, identical to the seasonal flu.

The hysteria needs to stop.

Whelp --- I've got 2.5 and here's my link. Believe it.

More microbiology detail here if you're interested.

I posted a link and tagged you that says 2. Regardless 2 or 2.5 in right in line with seasonal flu. Measles has a contagion factor of 18 to put your number in perspective.

H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?

Any clues?

Yep. Looka here.

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
USA	85,268	+17,057	1,293	+266	1,864	82,111	2,122	258	4
China	81,285		3,287		74,051	3,947	1,235	56	2
Italy	80,589	+6,203	8,215	+712	10,361	62,013	3,612	1,333	136
Spain	57,786	+8,271	4,365	+718	7,015	46,406	3,166	1,236	93
Germany	43,938	+6,615	267	+61	5,673	37,998	23	524	3
Iran	29,406	+2,389	2,234	+157	10,457	16,715	2,746	350	27
France	29,155	+3,922	1,696	+365	4,948	22,511	3,375	447	26
Switzerland	11,811	+914	191	+38	131	11,489	141	1,365	22
UK	11,658	+2,129	578	+115	135	10,945	163	172	9

See that penultimate column on infection penetration, "Tot Cases/1M pop"? At 258?

This past Saturday that same number was 60. At the Ides of March it was 6.

You can also see the number under "New Cases" or note that we're leading the world, well ahead of China and Italy, in total cases, but I think the penetration number is the most significant due to how exponentially it's growing.

Add to this that the number of actually infected is an unknown, and that because up to half of those infected show no symptoms, they can and do spread contagion unwittingly, and it would be surprising if that rate were not happening as fast as it is.

And by the way we have a vaccine for Measles. For this we don't. And that's a YUGE difference maker when it comes to talking contagion.

Those numbers are a tiny fraction of the impact of H1N1. You know this or should and yet you cannot bring yourself to admit it. H1N1 had up to 1 billion cases worldwide. Almost 300,000 died worldwide.

2009 swine flu pandemic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My specific question was this: H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?


Care to try and answer again and maybe this time try and be honest. Covid-19 is a tiny fraction of H1N1 at this point. That cannot be argued. So why the mass hysteria this time?

Do I just need to put it in big bold fonts? Is that what you want? Are you hard of seeing? Or was the answer just inconvenient?

Because it's still gonna be the same answer. Watch this.

Here's (the relevant part of) my post from exactly two days ago, 48 hours, right down to the time mark. I put these here exactly so that they WILL show a time mark. These charts are always the then-current stats:

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
China	81,218	+47	3,281	+4	73,650	4,287	1,399	56	2
Italy	69,176		6,820		8,326	54,030	3,393	1,144	113
USA	60,653	+5,797	819	+39	387	59,447	1,307	183	2
Spain	47,610	+5,552	3,434	+443	5,367	38,809	2,636	1,018	73
Germany	35,740	+2,749	186	+27	3,540	32,014	23	427	2
Iran	27,017	+2,206	2,077	+143	9,625	15,315		322	25
France	22,304		1,100		3,281	17,923	2,516	342	17
Switzerland	10,537	+660	149	+27	131	10,257	141	1,217	17
S. Korea	9,137	+100	126	+6	3,730	5,281	59	178	2
UK	8,227	+150	433	+11	135	7,659	20	121	6

Now compare that with the current picture, 48 hours later:

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
USA	93,329	+7,894	1,384	+89	2,424	89,521	2,432	282	4
Italy	86,498	+5,909	9,134	+919	10,950	66,414	3,732	1,431	151
China	81,340	+55	3,292	+5	74,588	3,460	1,034	57	2
Spain	64,059	+6,273	4,934	+569	9,357	49,768	4,165	1,370	106
Germany	49,344	+5,406	304	+37	5,673	43,367	23	589	4
Iran	32,332	+2,926	2,378	+144	11,133	18,821	2,893	385	28

Looks like ~33,000 NEW infections, double the rate of death/population, an increase of ~100 infection penetration. That's not a grand total, that's just forty-eight hours. You do understand what "forty-eight hours" means, right? Should I type is as forty-eight hours? See it now?

Now inasmuch as this topic is about pulling out all the stops on public safety, here are some sobering animated projections in map forms, and graphs, of what happens with stronger versus weaker versions of clicking one's shoes together and hoping it just goes away because money.

If the concept "forty-eight hours" is elusive, let's put it this way.

Thirty-three thousand NEW cases just in that period is more than Iran has recorded IN TOTAL. And Iran is one of the most infected countries. Get it now?

H1N1 had a billion cases worldwide and almost 300,000 deaths. I have mentioned this three times now and you convienently ignore it. Why? I am making a simple comparison. I know you understand this and yet you keep avoiding the comparison which tells me all I need to know.

The hysteria is not justified and is in large part political. You are dismissed.

Because it's got nothing to do with the present, that's why.

You asked "why the hysteria", about the PRESENT. I answered. Then you asked again as if you didn't hear. You got the same answer. Wanna go again?

Why was there not the same level oh hysteria with H1N1. It inflected and killed far more people. It is a very valid question. If you are afraid of the question than just say so.

That's a strawman. I never agreed there was more, less, or the same hysteria with H1N1. And good luck quantifying that anyway. Again, you didn't ask why there was "more" or "less" hysteria. You asked why it exists. Now you want to change your question because you didn't like the answer.

HOWEVER, tell ya what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna take that new question too, no extra charge. If by "H1N1" you mean the 1918-1920 pandemic commonly and erroneously called "Spanish Flu", the painfully obvious reason is that news of it to the public was heavily suppressed. Britain, France, Germany and the US were at war and allowing the public to know there was a pandemic going on would have been bad for the business of war, so they let people die and didn't bother to prepare them. Because when ANY war is going on, all that matters is "muh team" and "our flag" and the little people sent to fight it are the expendables.

 

[Hellbilly]

Yeah, no. POTUS can't do that. Governors shut the streets down, not Rump.
We can thank our lucky stars, however few we have left, for that.

Less than 700 people have died of the China virus in the U.S. as of today. Should that justify all that has been done in your opinion?

Actually it's 782 but that's how fast it's happening isn't it.

Deaths don't justify all that's being done. The potential does that. The potential for a pandemic to become so ubiquitous that there is no escape. You slow that down by denying it chances to spread. That's what's going on now. You don't isolate/separate people because you have X number dead. You do it because you don't want 100X, 1000X or 1000000X. Is it an adjustment? Bigly. Man up.

I worked in Healthcare for over 25 years including the last 7 in a big city ER. You don't know wtf you're talking about. It's the fucking flu. We have it every year. The ridiculous hysteria needs to stop.

Fake news.

 

[skye]

Red states will have higher rates of death. Silver lining.

Siver lining?

Really.....

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Red states will have higher rates of death. Silver lining.

That's odd. All of the major infected areas are blue cities. How do you come up with that bizarre theory?

 

[WelfareQueen]

H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?

Yeah, no. POTUS can't do that. Governors shut the streets down, not Rump.
We can thank our lucky stars, however few we have left, for that.

Less than 700 people have died of the China virus in the U.S. as of today. Should that justify all that has been done in your opinion?

Actually it's 782 but that's how fast it's happening isn't it.

Deaths don't justify all that's being done. The potential does that. The potential for a pandemic to become so ubiquitous that there is no escape. You slow that down by denying it chances to spread. That's what's going on now. You don't isolate/separate people because you have X number dead. You do it because you don't want 100X, 1000X or 1000000X. Is it an adjustment? Bigly. Man up.

I worked in Healthcare for over 25 years including the last 7 in a big city ER. You don't know wtf you're talking about. It's the fucking flu. We have it every year. The ridiculous hysteria needs to stop.

Pffft. I worked in healthcare longer than that, so enough "now show me yours" crapola. Not interested. This is about logic --- what works and what doesn't. It is NOT the "fucking flu", for which we have vaccines, it's way more contagious (R0=2.5) and it IS expanding exponentially. And the counteraction to that, in the limited experience we have, is to shut down and shut in. I posted this before but here's how a town in Italy did it. They literally tested everybody, symptomatic or not, and found that there's a TON of spreading going on from carriers who show no symptoms at all. That means it could literally be anywhere, and you can't tell by testing only the symptomatic. That town got infected, I believe they reported the first death in that country, and then they got rid of it. We ignore lessons like that at our own peril.

I don't believe you. As for seasonal flu the vaccines often are not effective. They are pure guess work season to season. The contagion rate of Covid-19 is not 2.5 it is 2, identical to the seasonal flu.

The hysteria needs to stop.

Whelp --- I've got 2.5 and here's my link. Believe it.

More microbiology detail here if you're interested.

I posted a link and tagged you that says 2. Regardless 2 or 2.5 in right in line with seasonal flu. Measles has a contagion factor of 18 to put your number in perspective.

H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?

Any clues?

Yep. Looka here.

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
USA	85,268	+17,057	1,293	+266	1,864	82,111	2,122	258	4
China	81,285		3,287		74,051	3,947	1,235	56	2
Italy	80,589	+6,203	8,215	+712	10,361	62,013	3,612	1,333	136
Spain	57,786	+8,271	4,365	+718	7,015	46,406	3,166	1,236	93
Germany	43,938	+6,615	267	+61	5,673	37,998	23	524	3
Iran	29,406	+2,389	2,234	+157	10,457	16,715	2,746	350	27
France	29,155	+3,922	1,696	+365	4,948	22,511	3,375	447	26
Switzerland	11,811	+914	191	+38	131	11,489	141	1,365	22
UK	11,658	+2,129	578	+115	135	10,945	163	172	9

See that penultimate column on infection penetration, "Tot Cases/1M pop"? At 258?

This past Saturday that same number was 60. At the Ides of March it was 6.

You can also see the number under "New Cases" or note that we're leading the world, well ahead of China and Italy, in total cases, but I think the penetration number is the most significant due to how exponentially it's growing.

Add to this that the number of actually infected is an unknown, and that because up to half of those infected show no symptoms, they can and do spread contagion unwittingly, and it would be surprising if that rate were not happening as fast as it is.

And by the way we have a vaccine for Measles. For this we don't. And that's a YUGE difference maker when it comes to talking contagion.

Those numbers are a tiny fraction of the impact of H1N1. You know this or should and yet you cannot bring yourself to admit it. H1N1 had up to 1 billion cases worldwide. Almost 300,000 died worldwide.

2009 swine flu pandemic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My specific question was this: H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?


Care to try and answer again and maybe this time try and be honest. Covid-19 is a tiny fraction of H1N1 at this point. That cannot be argued. So why the mass hysteria this time?

Do I just need to put it in big bold fonts? Is that what you want? Are you hard of seeing? Or was the answer just inconvenient?

Because it's still gonna be the same answer. Watch this.

Here's (the relevant part of) my post from exactly two days ago, 48 hours, right down to the time mark. I put these here exactly so that they WILL show a time mark. These charts are always the then-current stats:

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
China	81,218	+47	3,281	+4	73,650	4,287	1,399	56	2
Italy	69,176		6,820		8,326	54,030	3,393	1,144	113
USA	60,653	+5,797	819	+39	387	59,447	1,307	183	2
Spain	47,610	+5,552	3,434	+443	5,367	38,809	2,636	1,018	73
Germany	35,740	+2,749	186	+27	3,540	32,014	23	427	2
Iran	27,017	+2,206	2,077	+143	9,625	15,315		322	25
France	22,304		1,100		3,281	17,923	2,516	342	17
Switzerland	10,537	+660	149	+27	131	10,257	141	1,217	17
S. Korea	9,137	+100	126	+6	3,730	5,281	59	178	2
UK	8,227	+150	433	+11	135	7,659	20	121	6

Now compare that with the current picture, 48 hours later:

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
USA	93,329	+7,894	1,384	+89	2,424	89,521	2,432	282	4
Italy	86,498	+5,909	9,134	+919	10,950	66,414	3,732	1,431	151
China	81,340	+55	3,292	+5	74,588	3,460	1,034	57	2
Spain	64,059	+6,273	4,934	+569	9,357	49,768	4,165	1,370	106
Germany	49,344	+5,406	304	+37	5,673	43,367	23	589	4
Iran	32,332	+2,926	2,378	+144	11,133	18,821	2,893	385	28

Looks like ~33,000 NEW infections, double the rate of death/population, an increase of ~100 infection penetration. That's not a grand total, that's just forty-eight hours. You do understand what "forty-eight hours" means, right? Should I type is as forty-eight hours? See it now?

Now inasmuch as this topic is about pulling out all the stops on public safety, here are some sobering animated projections in map forms, and graphs, of what happens with stronger versus weaker versions of clicking one's shoes together and hoping it just goes away because money.

If the concept "forty-eight hours" is elusive, let's put it this way.

Thirty-three thousand NEW cases just in that period is more than Iran has recorded IN TOTAL. And Iran is one of the most infected countries. Get it now?

H1N1 had a billion cases worldwide and almost 300,000 deaths. I have mentioned this three times now and you convienently ignore it. Why? I am making a simple comparison. I know you understand this and yet you keep avoiding the comparison which tells me all I need to know.

The hysteria is not justified and is in large part political. You are dismissed.

Because it's got nothing to do with the present, that's why.

You asked "why the hysteria", about the PRESENT. I answered. Then you asked again as if you didn't hear. You got the same answer. Wanna go again?

Why was there not the same level oh hysteria with H1N1. It inflected and killed far more people. It is a very valid question. If you are afraid of the question than just say so.

That's a strawman. I never agreed there was more, less, or the same hysteria with H1N1. And good luck quantifying that anyway. Again, you didn't ask why there was "more" or "less" hysteria. You asked why it exists. Now you want to change your question because you didn't like the answer.

HOWEVER, tell ya what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna take that new question too, no extra charge. If by "H1N1" you mean the 1918-1920 pandemic commonly and erroneously called "Spanish Flu", the painfully obvious reason is that news of it to the public was heavily suppressed. Britain, France, Germany and the US were at war and allowing the public to know there was a pandemic going on would have been bad for the business of war, so they let people die and didn't bother to prepare them. Because when ANY war is going on, all that matters is "muh team" and "our flag" and the little people sent to fight it are the expendables.

Oh my fucking God. You don't even know what H1N1 is and when it happened? But I thought you were a health care professional? I even gave you a link and you still don't fucking know.

And any one is supposed to believe anything you say about Covid-19? Retarded....truly retarded.

 

[Pogo]

H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?

Yeah, no. POTUS can't do that. Governors shut the streets down, not Rump.
We can thank our lucky stars, however few we have left, for that.

Less than 700 people have died of the China virus in the U.S. as of today. Should that justify all that has been done in your opinion?

Actually it's 782 but that's how fast it's happening isn't it.

Deaths don't justify all that's being done. The potential does that. The potential for a pandemic to become so ubiquitous that there is no escape. You slow that down by denying it chances to spread. That's what's going on now. You don't isolate/separate people because you have X number dead. You do it because you don't want 100X, 1000X or 1000000X. Is it an adjustment? Bigly. Man up.

I worked in Healthcare for over 25 years including the last 7 in a big city ER. You don't know wtf you're talking about. It's the fucking flu. We have it every year. The ridiculous hysteria needs to stop.

Pffft. I worked in healthcare longer than that, so enough "now show me yours" crapola. Not interested. This is about logic --- what works and what doesn't. It is NOT the "fucking flu", for which we have vaccines, it's way more contagious (R0=2.5) and it IS expanding exponentially. And the counteraction to that, in the limited experience we have, is to shut down and shut in. I posted this before but here's how a town in Italy did it. They literally tested everybody, symptomatic or not, and found that there's a TON of spreading going on from carriers who show no symptoms at all. That means it could literally be anywhere, and you can't tell by testing only the symptomatic. That town got infected, I believe they reported the first death in that country, and then they got rid of it. We ignore lessons like that at our own peril.

I don't believe you. As for seasonal flu the vaccines often are not effective. They are pure guess work season to season. The contagion rate of Covid-19 is not 2.5 it is 2, identical to the seasonal flu.

The hysteria needs to stop.

Whelp --- I've got 2.5 and here's my link. Believe it.

More microbiology detail here if you're interested.

I posted a link and tagged you that says 2. Regardless 2 or 2.5 in right in line with seasonal flu. Measles has a contagion factor of 18 to put your number in perspective.

H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?

Any clues?

Yep. Looka here.

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
USA	85,268	+17,057	1,293	+266	1,864	82,111	2,122	258	4
China	81,285		3,287		74,051	3,947	1,235	56	2
Italy	80,589	+6,203	8,215	+712	10,361	62,013	3,612	1,333	136
Spain	57,786	+8,271	4,365	+718	7,015	46,406	3,166	1,236	93
Germany	43,938	+6,615	267	+61	5,673	37,998	23	524	3
Iran	29,406	+2,389	2,234	+157	10,457	16,715	2,746	350	27
France	29,155	+3,922	1,696	+365	4,948	22,511	3,375	447	26
Switzerland	11,811	+914	191	+38	131	11,489	141	1,365	22
UK	11,658	+2,129	578	+115	135	10,945	163	172	9

See that penultimate column on infection penetration, "Tot Cases/1M pop"? At 258?

This past Saturday that same number was 60. At the Ides of March it was 6.

You can also see the number under "New Cases" or note that we're leading the world, well ahead of China and Italy, in total cases, but I think the penetration number is the most significant due to how exponentially it's growing.

Add to this that the number of actually infected is an unknown, and that because up to half of those infected show no symptoms, they can and do spread contagion unwittingly, and it would be surprising if that rate were not happening as fast as it is.

And by the way we have a vaccine for Measles. For this we don't. And that's a YUGE difference maker when it comes to talking contagion.

Those numbers are a tiny fraction of the impact of H1N1. You know this or should and yet you cannot bring yourself to admit it. H1N1 had up to 1 billion cases worldwide. Almost 300,000 died worldwide.

2009 swine flu pandemic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My specific question was this: H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?


Care to try and answer again and maybe this time try and be honest. Covid-19 is a tiny fraction of H1N1 at this point. That cannot be argued. So why the mass hysteria this time?

Do I just need to put it in big bold fonts? Is that what you want? Are you hard of seeing? Or was the answer just inconvenient?

Because it's still gonna be the same answer. Watch this.

Here's (the relevant part of) my post from exactly two days ago, 48 hours, right down to the time mark. I put these here exactly so that they WILL show a time mark. These charts are always the then-current stats:

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
China	81,218	+47	3,281	+4	73,650	4,287	1,399	56	2
Italy	69,176		6,820		8,326	54,030	3,393	1,144	113
USA	60,653	+5,797	819	+39	387	59,447	1,307	183	2
Spain	47,610	+5,552	3,434	+443	5,367	38,809	2,636	1,018	73
Germany	35,740	+2,749	186	+27	3,540	32,014	23	427	2
Iran	27,017	+2,206	2,077	+143	9,625	15,315		322	25
France	22,304		1,100		3,281	17,923	2,516	342	17
Switzerland	10,537	+660	149	+27	131	10,257	141	1,217	17
S. Korea	9,137	+100	126	+6	3,730	5,281	59	178	2
UK	8,227	+150	433	+11	135	7,659	20	121	6

Now compare that with the current picture, 48 hours later:

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
USA	93,329	+7,894	1,384	+89	2,424	89,521	2,432	282	4
Italy	86,498	+5,909	9,134	+919	10,950	66,414	3,732	1,431	151
China	81,340	+55	3,292	+5	74,588	3,460	1,034	57	2
Spain	64,059	+6,273	4,934	+569	9,357	49,768	4,165	1,370	106
Germany	49,344	+5,406	304	+37	5,673	43,367	23	589	4
Iran	32,332	+2,926	2,378	+144	11,133	18,821	2,893	385	28

Looks like ~33,000 NEW infections, double the rate of death/population, an increase of ~100 infection penetration. That's not a grand total, that's just forty-eight hours. You do understand what "forty-eight hours" means, right? Should I type is as forty-eight hours? See it now?

Now inasmuch as this topic is about pulling out all the stops on public safety, here are some sobering animated projections in map forms, and graphs, of what happens with stronger versus weaker versions of clicking one's shoes together and hoping it just goes away because money.

If the concept "forty-eight hours" is elusive, let's put it this way.

Thirty-three thousand NEW cases just in that period is more than Iran has recorded IN TOTAL. And Iran is one of the most infected countries. Get it now?

H1N1 had a billion cases worldwide and almost 300,000 deaths. I have mentioned this three times now and you convienently ignore it. Why? I am making a simple comparison. I know you understand this and yet you keep avoiding the comparison which tells me all I need to know.

The hysteria is not justified and is in large part political. You are dismissed.

Because it's got nothing to do with the present, that's why.

You asked "why the hysteria", about the PRESENT. I answered. Then you asked again as if you didn't hear. You got the same answer. Wanna go again?

Why was there not the same level oh hysteria with H1N1. It inflected and killed far more people. It is a very valid question. If you are afraid of the question than just say so.

That's a strawman. I never agreed there was more, less, or the same hysteria with H1N1. And good luck quantifying that anyway. Again, you didn't ask why there was "more" or "less" hysteria. You asked why it exists. Now you want to change your question because you didn't like the answer.

HOWEVER, tell ya what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna take that new question too, no extra charge. If by "H1N1" you mean the 1918-1920 pandemic commonly and erroneously called "Spanish Flu", the painfully obvious reason is that news of it to the public was heavily suppressed. Britain, France, Germany and the US were at war and allowing the public to know there was a pandemic going on would have been bad for the business of war, so they let people die and didn't bother to prepare them. Because when ANY war is going on, all that matters is "muh team" and "our flag" and the little people sent to fight it are the expendables.

Oh my fucking God. You don't even know what H1N1 is and when it happened? But I thought you were a health care professional? I even gave you a link and you still don't fucking know.

And any one is supposed to believe anything you say about Covid-19? Retarded....truly retarded.

Is there some part of my comment you take issue with yet can't articulate?

Why is that?

Just to recap, the fact is you asked my opinion on why the hysteria (in the present). I gave it to you. You asked again, I gave it to you again. Then you wanted to change the question to a comparison of some subjective hysteria factor you don't have and can't quantify. You wanted to draw a comparison with the pandemic of a century ago, which is an easy target, so I obliterated it.

Next time don't change the question and maybe it won't be obliterated.

 

[WelfareQueen]

H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?

Yeah, no. POTUS can't do that. Governors shut the streets down, not Rump.
We can thank our lucky stars, however few we have left, for that.

Less than 700 people have died of the China virus in the U.S. as of today. Should that justify all that has been done in your opinion?

Actually it's 782 but that's how fast it's happening isn't it.

Deaths don't justify all that's being done. The potential does that. The potential for a pandemic to become so ubiquitous that there is no escape. You slow that down by denying it chances to spread. That's what's going on now. You don't isolate/separate people because you have X number dead. You do it because you don't want 100X, 1000X or 1000000X. Is it an adjustment? Bigly. Man up.

I worked in Healthcare for over 25 years including the last 7 in a big city ER. You don't know wtf you're talking about. It's the fucking flu. We have it every year. The ridiculous hysteria needs to stop.

Pffft. I worked in healthcare longer than that, so enough "now show me yours" crapola. Not interested. This is about logic --- what works and what doesn't. It is NOT the "fucking flu", for which we have vaccines, it's way more contagious (R0=2.5) and it IS expanding exponentially. And the counteraction to that, in the limited experience we have, is to shut down and shut in. I posted this before but here's how a town in Italy did it. They literally tested everybody, symptomatic or not, and found that there's a TON of spreading going on from carriers who show no symptoms at all. That means it could literally be anywhere, and you can't tell by testing only the symptomatic. That town got infected, I believe they reported the first death in that country, and then they got rid of it. We ignore lessons like that at our own peril.

I don't believe you. As for seasonal flu the vaccines often are not effective. They are pure guess work season to season. The contagion rate of Covid-19 is not 2.5 it is 2, identical to the seasonal flu.

The hysteria needs to stop.

Whelp --- I've got 2.5 and here's my link. Believe it.

More microbiology detail here if you're interested.

I posted a link and tagged you that says 2. Regardless 2 or 2.5 in right in line with seasonal flu. Measles has a contagion factor of 18 to put your number in perspective.

H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?

Any clues?

Yep. Looka here.

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
USA	85,268	+17,057	1,293	+266	1,864	82,111	2,122	258	4
China	81,285		3,287		74,051	3,947	1,235	56	2
Italy	80,589	+6,203	8,215	+712	10,361	62,013	3,612	1,333	136
Spain	57,786	+8,271	4,365	+718	7,015	46,406	3,166	1,236	93
Germany	43,938	+6,615	267	+61	5,673	37,998	23	524	3
Iran	29,406	+2,389	2,234	+157	10,457	16,715	2,746	350	27
France	29,155	+3,922	1,696	+365	4,948	22,511	3,375	447	26
Switzerland	11,811	+914	191	+38	131	11,489	141	1,365	22
UK	11,658	+2,129	578	+115	135	10,945	163	172	9

See that penultimate column on infection penetration, "Tot Cases/1M pop"? At 258?

This past Saturday that same number was 60. At the Ides of March it was 6.

You can also see the number under "New Cases" or note that we're leading the world, well ahead of China and Italy, in total cases, but I think the penetration number is the most significant due to how exponentially it's growing.

Add to this that the number of actually infected is an unknown, and that because up to half of those infected show no symptoms, they can and do spread contagion unwittingly, and it would be surprising if that rate were not happening as fast as it is.

And by the way we have a vaccine for Measles. For this we don't. And that's a YUGE difference maker when it comes to talking contagion.

Those numbers are a tiny fraction of the impact of H1N1. You know this or should and yet you cannot bring yourself to admit it. H1N1 had up to 1 billion cases worldwide. Almost 300,000 died worldwide.

2009 swine flu pandemic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My specific question was this: H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?


Care to try and answer again and maybe this time try and be honest. Covid-19 is a tiny fraction of H1N1 at this point. That cannot be argued. So why the mass hysteria this time?

Do I just need to put it in big bold fonts? Is that what you want? Are you hard of seeing? Or was the answer just inconvenient?

Because it's still gonna be the same answer. Watch this.

Here's (the relevant part of) my post from exactly two days ago, 48 hours, right down to the time mark. I put these here exactly so that they WILL show a time mark. These charts are always the then-current stats:

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
China	81,218	+47	3,281	+4	73,650	4,287	1,399	56	2
Italy	69,176		6,820		8,326	54,030	3,393	1,144	113
USA	60,653	+5,797	819	+39	387	59,447	1,307	183	2
Spain	47,610	+5,552	3,434	+443	5,367	38,809	2,636	1,018	73
Germany	35,740	+2,749	186	+27	3,540	32,014	23	427	2
Iran	27,017	+2,206	2,077	+143	9,625	15,315		322	25
France	22,304		1,100		3,281	17,923	2,516	342	17
Switzerland	10,537	+660	149	+27	131	10,257	141	1,217	17
S. Korea	9,137	+100	126	+6	3,730	5,281	59	178	2
UK	8,227	+150	433	+11	135	7,659	20	121	6

Now compare that with the current picture, 48 hours later:

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
USA	93,329	+7,894	1,384	+89	2,424	89,521	2,432	282	4
Italy	86,498	+5,909	9,134	+919	10,950	66,414	3,732	1,431	151
China	81,340	+55	3,292	+5	74,588	3,460	1,034	57	2
Spain	64,059	+6,273	4,934	+569	9,357	49,768	4,165	1,370	106
Germany	49,344	+5,406	304	+37	5,673	43,367	23	589	4
Iran	32,332	+2,926	2,378	+144	11,133	18,821	2,893	385	28

Looks like ~33,000 NEW infections, double the rate of death/population, an increase of ~100 infection penetration. That's not a grand total, that's just forty-eight hours. You do understand what "forty-eight hours" means, right? Should I type is as forty-eight hours? See it now?

Now inasmuch as this topic is about pulling out all the stops on public safety, here are some sobering animated projections in map forms, and graphs, of what happens with stronger versus weaker versions of clicking one's shoes together and hoping it just goes away because money.

If the concept "forty-eight hours" is elusive, let's put it this way.

Thirty-three thousand NEW cases just in that period is more than Iran has recorded IN TOTAL. And Iran is one of the most infected countries. Get it now?

H1N1 had a billion cases worldwide and almost 300,000 deaths. I have mentioned this three times now and you convienently ignore it. Why? I am making a simple comparison. I know you understand this and yet you keep avoiding the comparison which tells me all I need to know.

The hysteria is not justified and is in large part political. You are dismissed.

Because it's got nothing to do with the present, that's why.

You asked "why the hysteria", about the PRESENT. I answered. Then you asked again as if you didn't hear. You got the same answer. Wanna go again?

Why was there not the same level oh hysteria with H1N1. It inflected and killed far more people. It is a very valid question. If you are afraid of the question than just say so.

That's a strawman. I never agreed there was more, less, or the same hysteria with H1N1. And good luck quantifying that anyway. Again, you didn't ask why there was "more" or "less" hysteria. You asked why it exists. Now you want to change your question because you didn't like the answer.

HOWEVER, tell ya what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna take that new question too, no extra charge. If by "H1N1" you mean the 1918-1920 pandemic commonly and erroneously called "Spanish Flu", the painfully obvious reason is that news of it to the public was heavily suppressed. Britain, France, Germany and the US were at war and allowing the public to know there was a pandemic going on would have been bad for the business of war, so they let people die and didn't bother to prepare them. Because when ANY war is going on, all that matters is "muh team" and "our flag" and the little people sent to fight it are the expendables.

Oh my fucking God. You don't even know what H1N1 is and when it happened? But I thought you were a health care professional? I even gave you a link and you still don't fucking know.

And any one is supposed to believe anything you say about Covid-19? Retarded....truly retarded.

Is there some part of my comment you take issue with yet can't articulate?

Why is that?

Just to recap, the fact is you asked my opinion on why the hysteria (in the present). I gave it to you. You asked again, I gave it to you again. Then you wanted to change the question to a comparison of some subjective hysteria factor you don't have and can't quantify. You wanted to draw a comparison with the pandemic of a century ago, which is an easy target, so I obliterated it.

Next time don't change the question and maybe it won't be obliterated.

Please stop talking, you're just looking more and more retarded. Google H1N1 Pandemic. And no genius, it did not happen a century ago. As a healthcare professional you should be completely familiar, and it is totally relevant to Covid-19. Hence the comparison. So for God's sakes please educate yourself. This is getting painful.

 

[Pogo]

H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?

Yeah, no. POTUS can't do that. Governors shut the streets down, not Rump.
We can thank our lucky stars, however few we have left, for that.

Less than 700 people have died of the China virus in the U.S. as of today. Should that justify all that has been done in your opinion?

Actually it's 782 but that's how fast it's happening isn't it.

Deaths don't justify all that's being done. The potential does that. The potential for a pandemic to become so ubiquitous that there is no escape. You slow that down by denying it chances to spread. That's what's going on now. You don't isolate/separate people because you have X number dead. You do it because you don't want 100X, 1000X or 1000000X. Is it an adjustment? Bigly. Man up.

I worked in Healthcare for over 25 years including the last 7 in a big city ER. You don't know wtf you're talking about. It's the fucking flu. We have it every year. The ridiculous hysteria needs to stop.

Pffft. I worked in healthcare longer than that, so enough "now show me yours" crapola. Not interested. This is about logic --- what works and what doesn't. It is NOT the "fucking flu", for which we have vaccines, it's way more contagious (R0=2.5) and it IS expanding exponentially. And the counteraction to that, in the limited experience we have, is to shut down and shut in. I posted this before but here's how a town in Italy did it. They literally tested everybody, symptomatic or not, and found that there's a TON of spreading going on from carriers who show no symptoms at all. That means it could literally be anywhere, and you can't tell by testing only the symptomatic. That town got infected, I believe they reported the first death in that country, and then they got rid of it. We ignore lessons like that at our own peril.

I don't believe you. As for seasonal flu the vaccines often are not effective. They are pure guess work season to season. The contagion rate of Covid-19 is not 2.5 it is 2, identical to the seasonal flu.

The hysteria needs to stop.

Whelp --- I've got 2.5 and here's my link. Believe it.

More microbiology detail here if you're interested.

I posted a link and tagged you that says 2. Regardless 2 or 2.5 in right in line with seasonal flu. Measles has a contagion factor of 18 to put your number in perspective.

H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?

Any clues?

Yep. Looka here.

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
USA	85,268	+17,057	1,293	+266	1,864	82,111	2,122	258	4
China	81,285		3,287		74,051	3,947	1,235	56	2
Italy	80,589	+6,203	8,215	+712	10,361	62,013	3,612	1,333	136
Spain	57,786	+8,271	4,365	+718	7,015	46,406	3,166	1,236	93
Germany	43,938	+6,615	267	+61	5,673	37,998	23	524	3
Iran	29,406	+2,389	2,234	+157	10,457	16,715	2,746	350	27
France	29,155	+3,922	1,696	+365	4,948	22,511	3,375	447	26
Switzerland	11,811	+914	191	+38	131	11,489	141	1,365	22
UK	11,658	+2,129	578	+115	135	10,945	163	172	9

See that penultimate column on infection penetration, "Tot Cases/1M pop"? At 258?

This past Saturday that same number was 60. At the Ides of March it was 6.

You can also see the number under "New Cases" or note that we're leading the world, well ahead of China and Italy, in total cases, but I think the penetration number is the most significant due to how exponentially it's growing.

Add to this that the number of actually infected is an unknown, and that because up to half of those infected show no symptoms, they can and do spread contagion unwittingly, and it would be surprising if that rate were not happening as fast as it is.

And by the way we have a vaccine for Measles. For this we don't. And that's a YUGE difference maker when it comes to talking contagion.

Those numbers are a tiny fraction of the impact of H1N1. You know this or should and yet you cannot bring yourself to admit it. H1N1 had up to 1 billion cases worldwide. Almost 300,000 died worldwide.

2009 swine flu pandemic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My specific question was this: H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?


Care to try and answer again and maybe this time try and be honest. Covid-19 is a tiny fraction of H1N1 at this point. That cannot be argued. So why the mass hysteria this time?

Do I just need to put it in big bold fonts? Is that what you want? Are you hard of seeing? Or was the answer just inconvenient?

Because it's still gonna be the same answer. Watch this.

Here's (the relevant part of) my post from exactly two days ago, 48 hours, right down to the time mark. I put these here exactly so that they WILL show a time mark. These charts are always the then-current stats:

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
China	81,218	+47	3,281	+4	73,650	4,287	1,399	56	2
Italy	69,176		6,820		8,326	54,030	3,393	1,144	113
USA	60,653	+5,797	819	+39	387	59,447	1,307	183	2
Spain	47,610	+5,552	3,434	+443	5,367	38,809	2,636	1,018	73
Germany	35,740	+2,749	186	+27	3,540	32,014	23	427	2
Iran	27,017	+2,206	2,077	+143	9,625	15,315		322	25
France	22,304		1,100		3,281	17,923	2,516	342	17
Switzerland	10,537	+660	149	+27	131	10,257	141	1,217	17
S. Korea	9,137	+100	126	+6	3,730	5,281	59	178	2
UK	8,227	+150	433	+11	135	7,659	20	121	6

Now compare that with the current picture, 48 hours later:

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
USA	93,329	+7,894	1,384	+89	2,424	89,521	2,432	282	4
Italy	86,498	+5,909	9,134	+919	10,950	66,414	3,732	1,431	151
China	81,340	+55	3,292	+5	74,588	3,460	1,034	57	2
Spain	64,059	+6,273	4,934	+569	9,357	49,768	4,165	1,370	106
Germany	49,344	+5,406	304	+37	5,673	43,367	23	589	4
Iran	32,332	+2,926	2,378	+144	11,133	18,821	2,893	385	28

Looks like ~33,000 NEW infections, double the rate of death/population, an increase of ~100 infection penetration. That's not a grand total, that's just forty-eight hours. You do understand what "forty-eight hours" means, right? Should I type is as forty-eight hours? See it now?

Now inasmuch as this topic is about pulling out all the stops on public safety, here are some sobering animated projections in map forms, and graphs, of what happens with stronger versus weaker versions of clicking one's shoes together and hoping it just goes away because money.

If the concept "forty-eight hours" is elusive, let's put it this way.

Thirty-three thousand NEW cases just in that period is more than Iran has recorded IN TOTAL. And Iran is one of the most infected countries. Get it now?

H1N1 had a billion cases worldwide and almost 300,000 deaths. I have mentioned this three times now and you convienently ignore it. Why? I am making a simple comparison. I know you understand this and yet you keep avoiding the comparison which tells me all I need to know.

The hysteria is not justified and is in large part political. You are dismissed.

Because it's got nothing to do with the present, that's why.

You asked "why the hysteria", about the PRESENT. I answered. Then you asked again as if you didn't hear. You got the same answer. Wanna go again?

Why was there not the same level oh hysteria with H1N1. It inflected and killed far more people. It is a very valid question. If you are afraid of the question than just say so.

That's a strawman. I never agreed there was more, less, or the same hysteria with H1N1. And good luck quantifying that anyway. Again, you didn't ask why there was "more" or "less" hysteria. You asked why it exists. Now you want to change your question because you didn't like the answer.

HOWEVER, tell ya what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna take that new question too, no extra charge. If by "H1N1" you mean the 1918-1920 pandemic commonly and erroneously called "Spanish Flu", the painfully obvious reason is that news of it to the public was heavily suppressed. Britain, France, Germany and the US were at war and allowing the public to know there was a pandemic going on would have been bad for the business of war, so they let people die and didn't bother to prepare them. Because when ANY war is going on, all that matters is "muh team" and "our flag" and the little people sent to fight it are the expendables.

Oh my fucking God. You don't even know what H1N1 is and when it happened? But I thought you were a health care professional? I even gave you a link and you still don't fucking know.

And any one is supposed to believe anything you say about Covid-19? Retarded....truly retarded.

Is there some part of my comment you take issue with yet can't articulate?

Why is that?

Just to recap, the fact is you asked my opinion on why the hysteria (in the present). I gave it to you. You asked again, I gave it to you again. Then you wanted to change the question to a comparison of some subjective hysteria factor you don't have and can't quantify. You wanted to draw a comparison with the pandemic of a century ago, which is an easy target, so I obliterated it.

Next time don't change the question and maybe it won't be obliterated.

Please stop talking, you're just looking more and more retarded. Google H1N1 Pandemic. And no genius, it did not happen a century ago. As a healthcare professional you should be completely familiar, and it is totally relevant to Covid-19.

Why do you keep calling me a "health care professional"? I did Google H1N1 and you got your answer to why hysteria was suppressed. In the present day we don't have that informational suppression. Simple. ALL of which bypasses the simple fact that you erected a strawman you can't substantiate, because you have no VALUE for "hysteria". What is it? Twelve? 142.6? 88209?

It appears you don't like the answer to the original question and are now desperate to deflect to anything else. You asked my opinion, you got it. Three times.

 

[OldLady]

Pogo, the H1N1 pandemic was commonly known as the Swine Flu. In 2009.

 

[WelfareQueen]

H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?

Yeah, no. POTUS can't do that. Governors shut the streets down, not Rump.
We can thank our lucky stars, however few we have left, for that.

Less than 700 people have died of the China virus in the U.S. as of today. Should that justify all that has been done in your opinion?

Actually it's 782 but that's how fast it's happening isn't it.

Deaths don't justify all that's being done. The potential does that. The potential for a pandemic to become so ubiquitous that there is no escape. You slow that down by denying it chances to spread. That's what's going on now. You don't isolate/separate people because you have X number dead. You do it because you don't want 100X, 1000X or 1000000X. Is it an adjustment? Bigly. Man up.

I worked in Healthcare for over 25 years including the last 7 in a big city ER. You don't know wtf you're talking about. It's the fucking flu. We have it every year. The ridiculous hysteria needs to stop.

Pffft. I worked in healthcare longer than that, so enough "now show me yours" crapola. Not interested. This is about logic --- what works and what doesn't. It is NOT the "fucking flu", for which we have vaccines, it's way more contagious (R0=2.5) and it IS expanding exponentially. And the counteraction to that, in the limited experience we have, is to shut down and shut in. I posted this before but here's how a town in Italy did it. They literally tested everybody, symptomatic or not, and found that there's a TON of spreading going on from carriers who show no symptoms at all. That means it could literally be anywhere, and you can't tell by testing only the symptomatic. That town got infected, I believe they reported the first death in that country, and then they got rid of it. We ignore lessons like that at our own peril.

I don't believe you. As for seasonal flu the vaccines often are not effective. They are pure guess work season to season. The contagion rate of Covid-19 is not 2.5 it is 2, identical to the seasonal flu.

The hysteria needs to stop.

Whelp --- I've got 2.5 and here's my link. Believe it.

More microbiology detail here if you're interested.

I posted a link and tagged you that says 2. Regardless 2 or 2.5 in right in line with seasonal flu. Measles has a contagion factor of 18 to put your number in perspective.

H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?

Any clues?

Yep. Looka here.

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
USA	85,268	+17,057	1,293	+266	1,864	82,111	2,122	258	4
China	81,285		3,287		74,051	3,947	1,235	56	2
Italy	80,589	+6,203	8,215	+712	10,361	62,013	3,612	1,333	136
Spain	57,786	+8,271	4,365	+718	7,015	46,406	3,166	1,236	93
Germany	43,938	+6,615	267	+61	5,673	37,998	23	524	3
Iran	29,406	+2,389	2,234	+157	10,457	16,715	2,746	350	27
France	29,155	+3,922	1,696	+365	4,948	22,511	3,375	447	26
Switzerland	11,811	+914	191	+38	131	11,489	141	1,365	22
UK	11,658	+2,129	578	+115	135	10,945	163	172	9

See that penultimate column on infection penetration, "Tot Cases/1M pop"? At 258?

This past Saturday that same number was 60. At the Ides of March it was 6.

You can also see the number under "New Cases" or note that we're leading the world, well ahead of China and Italy, in total cases, but I think the penetration number is the most significant due to how exponentially it's growing.

Add to this that the number of actually infected is an unknown, and that because up to half of those infected show no symptoms, they can and do spread contagion unwittingly, and it would be surprising if that rate were not happening as fast as it is.

And by the way we have a vaccine for Measles. For this we don't. And that's a YUGE difference maker when it comes to talking contagion.

Those numbers are a tiny fraction of the impact of H1N1. You know this or should and yet you cannot bring yourself to admit it. H1N1 had up to 1 billion cases worldwide. Almost 300,000 died worldwide.

2009 swine flu pandemic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My specific question was this: H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?


Care to try and answer again and maybe this time try and be honest. Covid-19 is a tiny fraction of H1N1 at this point. That cannot be argued. So why the mass hysteria this time?

Do I just need to put it in big bold fonts? Is that what you want? Are you hard of seeing? Or was the answer just inconvenient?

Because it's still gonna be the same answer. Watch this.

Here's (the relevant part of) my post from exactly two days ago, 48 hours, right down to the time mark. I put these here exactly so that they WILL show a time mark. These charts are always the then-current stats:

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
China	81,218	+47	3,281	+4	73,650	4,287	1,399	56	2
Italy	69,176		6,820		8,326	54,030	3,393	1,144	113
USA	60,653	+5,797	819	+39	387	59,447	1,307	183	2
Spain	47,610	+5,552	3,434	+443	5,367	38,809	2,636	1,018	73
Germany	35,740	+2,749	186	+27	3,540	32,014	23	427	2
Iran	27,017	+2,206	2,077	+143	9,625	15,315		322	25
France	22,304		1,100		3,281	17,923	2,516	342	17
Switzerland	10,537	+660	149	+27	131	10,257	141	1,217	17
S. Korea	9,137	+100	126	+6	3,730	5,281	59	178	2
UK	8,227	+150	433	+11	135	7,659	20	121	6

Now compare that with the current picture, 48 hours later:

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
USA	93,329	+7,894	1,384	+89	2,424	89,521	2,432	282	4
Italy	86,498	+5,909	9,134	+919	10,950	66,414	3,732	1,431	151
China	81,340	+55	3,292	+5	74,588	3,460	1,034	57	2
Spain	64,059	+6,273	4,934	+569	9,357	49,768	4,165	1,370	106
Germany	49,344	+5,406	304	+37	5,673	43,367	23	589	4
Iran	32,332	+2,926	2,378	+144	11,133	18,821	2,893	385	28

Looks like ~33,000 NEW infections, double the rate of death/population, an increase of ~100 infection penetration. That's not a grand total, that's just forty-eight hours. You do understand what "forty-eight hours" means, right? Should I type is as forty-eight hours? See it now?

Now inasmuch as this topic is about pulling out all the stops on public safety, here are some sobering animated projections in map forms, and graphs, of what happens with stronger versus weaker versions of clicking one's shoes together and hoping it just goes away because money.

If the concept "forty-eight hours" is elusive, let's put it this way.

Thirty-three thousand NEW cases just in that period is more than Iran has recorded IN TOTAL. And Iran is one of the most infected countries. Get it now?

H1N1 had a billion cases worldwide and almost 300,000 deaths. I have mentioned this three times now and you convienently ignore it. Why? I am making a simple comparison. I know you understand this and yet you keep avoiding the comparison which tells me all I need to know.

The hysteria is not justified and is in large part political. You are dismissed.

Because it's got nothing to do with the present, that's why.

You asked "why the hysteria", about the PRESENT. I answered. Then you asked again as if you didn't hear. You got the same answer. Wanna go again?

Why was there not the same level oh hysteria with H1N1. It inflected and killed far more people. It is a very valid question. If you are afraid of the question than just say so.

That's a strawman. I never agreed there was more, less, or the same hysteria with H1N1. And good luck quantifying that anyway. Again, you didn't ask why there was "more" or "less" hysteria. You asked why it exists. Now you want to change your question because you didn't like the answer.

HOWEVER, tell ya what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna take that new question too, no extra charge. If by "H1N1" you mean the 1918-1920 pandemic commonly and erroneously called "Spanish Flu", the painfully obvious reason is that news of it to the public was heavily suppressed. Britain, France, Germany and the US were at war and allowing the public to know there was a pandemic going on would have been bad for the business of war, so they let people die and didn't bother to prepare them. Because when ANY war is going on, all that matters is "muh team" and "our flag" and the little people sent to fight it are the expendables.

Oh my fucking God. You don't even know what H1N1 is and when it happened? But I thought you were a health care professional? I even gave you a link and you still don't fucking know.

And any one is supposed to believe anything you say about Covid-19? Retarded....truly retarded.

Is there some part of my comment you take issue with yet can't articulate?

Why is that?

Just to recap, the fact is you asked my opinion on why the hysteria (in the present). I gave it to you. You asked again, I gave it to you again. Then you wanted to change the question to a comparison of some subjective hysteria factor you don't have and can't quantify. You wanted to draw a comparison with the pandemic of a century ago, which is an easy target, so I obliterated it.

Next time don't change the question and maybe it won't be obliterated.

Please stop talking, you're just looking more and more retarded. Google H1N1 Pandemic. And no genius, it did not happen a century ago. As a healthcare professional you should be completely familiar, and it is totally relevant to Covid-19.

Why do you keep calling me a "health care professional"? I did Google H1N1 and you got your answer to why hysteria was suppressed. In the present day we don't have that informational suppression. Simple. ALL of which bypasses the simple fact that you erected a strawman you can't substantiate, because you have no VALUE for "hysteria". What is it? Twelve? 142.6? 88209?

It appears you don't like the answer to the original question and are now desperate to deflect to anything else. You asked my opinion, you got it. Three times.

Because you claimed to be a healthcare professional. I said I did not believe you and you have confirmed my assumption in spades.

I worked in an inner city ER during the 2009 Pandemic. It was much worse that Covid-19. There were over 1 billion cases worldwide and 284,000 deaths. I asked you over and over why the hysteria now when there was not anywhere near the degree of hysteria a decade ago. Unfortunately you have been too stupid and obtuse to grasp such a simple question. At this point, for both our sakes, forget it.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Pogo, the H1N1 pandemic was commonly known as the Swine Flu. In 2009.

Thank you kind lady. I even provided him a link so he could educate himself, but it has been three days of idiocy. Sadly, I have given up. It is hopeless.

Covid-19 is very serious, my point being it is not all that unusual. We have have Pandemics like this many times. I was working in an ER during the equally serious H1N1 Pandemic in 2009, and there was not anywhere near the level of hysteria. I don't understand why this one is made out to be the end of the world. Just my observation and opinion...nothing more.

 

[Crepitus]

The idea is to combat the virus.

We don't need 6 trillion dollars to provide masks and medical services to the infected by the Corona virus.

People must go back to work, students to school and the government must spend one or two billions in medical means to avoid more deaths.

The closing of business and other extreme measures weren't never necessary.

It is time for corporations to recover by their own. If they fail, so be it. It won't be your fault but "the virus fault". I can bet they will recover anyways if the bill never passes.

Executive order for return back to normaility is seriously expected ASAP, and there is a hope of seeing Mrs. Pelosi breaking in pieces the papers with the proposed 6 trillion dollars "economic incentive".

Wow were you ever wrong.

 

[g5000]

Yeah, no. POTUS can't do that. Governors shut the streets down, not Rump.
We can thank our lucky stars, however few we have left, for that.

Less than 700 people have died of the China virus in the U.S. as of today. Should that justify all that has been done in your opinion?

Actually it's 782 but that's how fast it's happening isn't it.

Deaths don't justify all that's being done. The potential does that. The potential for a pandemic to become so ubiquitous that there is no escape. You slow that down by denying it chances to spread. That's what's going on now. You don't isolate/separate people because you have X number dead. You do it because you don't want 100X, 1000X or 1000000X. Is it an adjustment? Bigly. Man up.

I worked in Healthcare for over 25 years including the last 7 in a big city ER. You don't know wtf you're talking about. It's the fucking flu. We have it every year. The ridiculous hysteria needs to stop.

Pffft. I worked in healthcare longer than that, so enough "now show me yours" crapola. Not interested. This is about logic --- what works and what doesn't. It is NOT the "fucking flu", for which we have vaccines, it's way more contagious (R0=2.5) and it IS expanding exponentially. And the counteraction to that, in the limited experience we have, is to shut down and shut in. I posted this before but here's how a town in Italy did it. They literally tested everybody, symptomatic or not, and found that there's a TON of spreading going on from carriers who show no symptoms at all. That means it could literally be anywhere, and you can't tell by testing only the symptomatic. That town got infected, I believe they reported the first death in that country, and then they got rid of it. We ignore lessons like that at our own peril.

At this point so far into the pandemic, it is pretty much a total waste of time to argue with Covid denier retards any longer.

Trump blew off the virus and this is the result.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Yeah, no. POTUS can't do that. Governors shut the streets down, not Rump.
We can thank our lucky stars, however few we have left, for that.

Less than 700 people have died of the China virus in the U.S. as of today. Should that justify all that has been done in your opinion?

Actually it's 782 but that's how fast it's happening isn't it.

Deaths don't justify all that's being done. The potential does that. The potential for a pandemic to become so ubiquitous that there is no escape. You slow that down by denying it chances to spread. That's what's going on now. You don't isolate/separate people because you have X number dead. You do it because you don't want 100X, 1000X or 1000000X. Is it an adjustment? Bigly. Man up.

I worked in Healthcare for over 25 years including the last 7 in a big city ER. You don't know wtf you're talking about. It's the fucking flu. We have it every year. The ridiculous hysteria needs to stop.

Pffft. I worked in healthcare longer than that, so enough "now show me yours" crapola. Not interested. This is about logic --- what works and what doesn't. It is NOT the "fucking flu", for which we have vaccines, it's way more contagious (R0=2.5) and it IS expanding exponentially. And the counteraction to that, in the limited experience we have, is to shut down and shut in. I posted this before but here's how a town in Italy did it. They literally tested everybody, symptomatic or not, and found that there's a TON of spreading going on from carriers who show no symptoms at all. That means it could literally be anywhere, and you can't tell by testing only the symptomatic. That town got infected, I believe they reported the first death in that country, and then they got rid of it. We ignore lessons like that at our own peril.

At this point so far into the pandemic, it is pretty much a total waste of time to argue with Covid denier retards any longer.

Trump blew off the virus and this is the result.

Yeah. It's all Trump's fault. I'd go with that.

 

[Pogo]

H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?

Yeah, no. POTUS can't do that. Governors shut the streets down, not Rump.
We can thank our lucky stars, however few we have left, for that.

Less than 700 people have died of the China virus in the U.S. as of today. Should that justify all that has been done in your opinion?

Actually it's 782 but that's how fast it's happening isn't it.

Deaths don't justify all that's being done. The potential does that. The potential for a pandemic to become so ubiquitous that there is no escape. You slow that down by denying it chances to spread. That's what's going on now. You don't isolate/separate people because you have X number dead. You do it because you don't want 100X, 1000X or 1000000X. Is it an adjustment? Bigly. Man up.

I worked in Healthcare for over 25 years including the last 7 in a big city ER. You don't know wtf you're talking about. It's the fucking flu. We have it every year. The ridiculous hysteria needs to stop.

Pffft. I worked in healthcare longer than that, so enough "now show me yours" crapola. Not interested. This is about logic --- what works and what doesn't. It is NOT the "fucking flu", for which we have vaccines, it's way more contagious (R0=2.5) and it IS expanding exponentially. And the counteraction to that, in the limited experience we have, is to shut down and shut in. I posted this before but here's how a town in Italy did it. They literally tested everybody, symptomatic or not, and found that there's a TON of spreading going on from carriers who show no symptoms at all. That means it could literally be anywhere, and you can't tell by testing only the symptomatic. That town got infected, I believe they reported the first death in that country, and then they got rid of it. We ignore lessons like that at our own peril.

I don't believe you. As for seasonal flu the vaccines often are not effective. They are pure guess work season to season. The contagion rate of Covid-19 is not 2.5 it is 2, identical to the seasonal flu.

The hysteria needs to stop.

Whelp --- I've got 2.5 and here's my link. Believe it.

More microbiology detail here if you're interested.

I posted a link and tagged you that says 2. Regardless 2 or 2.5 in right in line with seasonal flu. Measles has a contagion factor of 18 to put your number in perspective.

H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?

Any clues?

Yep. Looka here.

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
USA	85,268	+17,057	1,293	+266	1,864	82,111	2,122	258	4
China	81,285		3,287		74,051	3,947	1,235	56	2
Italy	80,589	+6,203	8,215	+712	10,361	62,013	3,612	1,333	136
Spain	57,786	+8,271	4,365	+718	7,015	46,406	3,166	1,236	93
Germany	43,938	+6,615	267	+61	5,673	37,998	23	524	3
Iran	29,406	+2,389	2,234	+157	10,457	16,715	2,746	350	27
France	29,155	+3,922	1,696	+365	4,948	22,511	3,375	447	26
Switzerland	11,811	+914	191	+38	131	11,489	141	1,365	22
UK	11,658	+2,129	578	+115	135	10,945	163	172	9

See that penultimate column on infection penetration, "Tot Cases/1M pop"? At 258?

This past Saturday that same number was 60. At the Ides of March it was 6.

You can also see the number under "New Cases" or note that we're leading the world, well ahead of China and Italy, in total cases, but I think the penetration number is the most significant due to how exponentially it's growing.

Add to this that the number of actually infected is an unknown, and that because up to half of those infected show no symptoms, they can and do spread contagion unwittingly, and it would be surprising if that rate were not happening as fast as it is.

And by the way we have a vaccine for Measles. For this we don't. And that's a YUGE difference maker when it comes to talking contagion.

Those numbers are a tiny fraction of the impact of H1N1. You know this or should and yet you cannot bring yourself to admit it. H1N1 had up to 1 billion cases worldwide. Almost 300,000 died worldwide.

2009 swine flu pandemic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My specific question was this: H1N1 killed 12,469 in the U.S. and 284,000 worldwide. There was no vaccine. Covid-19 is at 1200 in the U.S. and 23,000 worldwide currently. Why so much more hysteria in the current situation?


Care to try and answer again and maybe this time try and be honest. Covid-19 is a tiny fraction of H1N1 at this point. That cannot be argued. So why the mass hysteria this time?

Do I just need to put it in big bold fonts? Is that what you want? Are you hard of seeing? Or was the answer just inconvenient?

Because it's still gonna be the same answer. Watch this.

Here's (the relevant part of) my post from exactly two days ago, 48 hours, right down to the time mark. I put these here exactly so that they WILL show a time mark. These charts are always the then-current stats:

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
China	81,218	+47	3,281	+4	73,650	4,287	1,399	56	2
Italy	69,176		6,820		8,326	54,030	3,393	1,144	113
USA	60,653	+5,797	819	+39	387	59,447	1,307	183	2
Spain	47,610	+5,552	3,434	+443	5,367	38,809	2,636	1,018	73
Germany	35,740	+2,749	186	+27	3,540	32,014	23	427	2
Iran	27,017	+2,206	2,077	+143	9,625	15,315		322	25
France	22,304		1,100		3,281	17,923	2,516	342	17
Switzerland	10,537	+660	149	+27	131	10,257	141	1,217	17
S. Korea	9,137	+100	126	+6	3,730	5,281	59	178	2
UK	8,227	+150	433	+11	135	7,659	20	121	6

Now compare that with the current picture, 48 hours later:

Country, Other	Total Cases	New Cases	Total Deaths	New Deaths	Total Recovered	Active Cases	Serious, Critical	Tot Cases/ 1M pop	Tot Deaths/ 1M pop
USA	93,329	+7,894	1,384	+89	2,424	89,521	2,432	282	4
Italy	86,498	+5,909	9,134	+919	10,950	66,414	3,732	1,431	151
China	81,340	+55	3,292	+5	74,588	3,460	1,034	57	2
Spain	64,059	+6,273	4,934	+569	9,357	49,768	4,165	1,370	106
Germany	49,344	+5,406	304	+37	5,673	43,367	23	589	4
Iran	32,332	+2,926	2,378	+144	11,133	18,821	2,893	385	28

Looks like ~33,000 NEW infections, double the rate of death/population, an increase of ~100 infection penetration. That's not a grand total, that's just forty-eight hours. You do understand what "forty-eight hours" means, right? Should I type is as forty-eight hours? See it now?

Now inasmuch as this topic is about pulling out all the stops on public safety, here are some sobering animated projections in map forms, and graphs, of what happens with stronger versus weaker versions of clicking one's shoes together and hoping it just goes away because money.

If the concept "forty-eight hours" is elusive, let's put it this way.

Thirty-three thousand NEW cases just in that period is more than Iran has recorded IN TOTAL. And Iran is one of the most infected countries. Get it now?

H1N1 had a billion cases worldwide and almost 300,000 deaths. I have mentioned this three times now and you convienently ignore it. Why? I am making a simple comparison. I know you understand this and yet you keep avoiding the comparison which tells me all I need to know.

The hysteria is not justified and is in large part political. You are dismissed.

Because it's got nothing to do with the present, that's why.

You asked "why the hysteria", about the PRESENT. I answered. Then you asked again as if you didn't hear. You got the same answer. Wanna go again?

Why was there not the same level oh hysteria with H1N1. It inflected and killed far more people. It is a very valid question. If you are afraid of the question than just say so.

That's a strawman. I never agreed there was more, less, or the same hysteria with H1N1. And good luck quantifying that anyway. Again, you didn't ask why there was "more" or "less" hysteria. You asked why it exists. Now you want to change your question because you didn't like the answer.

HOWEVER, tell ya what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna take that new question too, no extra charge. If by "H1N1" you mean the 1918-1920 pandemic commonly and erroneously called "Spanish Flu", the painfully obvious reason is that news of it to the public was heavily suppressed. Britain, France, Germany and the US were at war and allowing the public to know there was a pandemic going on would have been bad for the business of war, so they let people die and didn't bother to prepare them. Because when ANY war is going on, all that matters is "muh team" and "our flag" and the little people sent to fight it are the expendables.

Oh my fucking God. You don't even know what H1N1 is and when it happened? But I thought you were a health care professional? I even gave you a link and you still don't fucking know.

And any one is supposed to believe anything you say about Covid-19? Retarded....truly retarded.

Is there some part of my comment you take issue with yet can't articulate?

Why is that?

Just to recap, the fact is you asked my opinion on why the hysteria (in the present). I gave it to you. You asked again, I gave it to you again. Then you wanted to change the question to a comparison of some subjective hysteria factor you don't have and can't quantify. You wanted to draw a comparison with the pandemic of a century ago, which is an easy target, so I obliterated it.

Next time don't change the question and maybe it won't be obliterated.

Please stop talking, you're just looking more and more retarded. Google H1N1 Pandemic. And no genius, it did not happen a century ago. As a healthcare professional you should be completely familiar, and it is totally relevant to Covid-19.

Why do you keep calling me a "health care professional"? I did Google H1N1 and you got your answer to why hysteria was suppressed. In the present day we don't have that informational suppression. Simple. ALL of which bypasses the simple fact that you erected a strawman you can't substantiate, because you have no VALUE for "hysteria". What is it? Twelve? 142.6? 88209?

It appears you don't like the answer to the original question and are now desperate to deflect to anything else. You asked my opinion, you got it. Three times.

Because you claimed to be a healthcare professional. I said I did not believe you and you have confirmed my assumption in spades.

I worked in an inner city ER during the 2009 Pandemic. It was much worse that Covid-19. There were over 1 billion cases worldwide and 284,000 deaths. I asked you over and over why the hysteria now when there was not anywhere near the degree of hysteria a decade ago. Unfortunately you have been too stupid and obtuse to grasp such a simple question. At this point, for both our sakes, forget it.

Might as well, since you're ignoring everything I say anyway. Don't waste my time.

 

[Pogo]

Pogo, the H1N1 pandemic was commonly known as the Swine Flu. In 2009.

Yeah I know. But he/she didn't say "Swine". In the interest of accuracy I looked up H1N1 and it went to 1918. It actually applies to multiple pandemics.

Doesn't matter, he's changing his question because he asked my opinion and then wants to whine about the answer. People who bury their heads in the sand aren't going to see anything down there, fuck 'em.

 

[Pogo]

Yeah, no. POTUS can't do that. Governors shut the streets down, not Rump.
We can thank our lucky stars, however few we have left, for that.

Less than 700 people have died of the China virus in the U.S. as of today. Should that justify all that has been done in your opinion?

Actually it's 782 but that's how fast it's happening isn't it.

Deaths don't justify all that's being done. The potential does that. The potential for a pandemic to become so ubiquitous that there is no escape. You slow that down by denying it chances to spread. That's what's going on now. You don't isolate/separate people because you have X number dead. You do it because you don't want 100X, 1000X or 1000000X. Is it an adjustment? Bigly. Man up.

I worked in Healthcare for over 25 years including the last 7 in a big city ER. You don't know wtf you're talking about. It's the fucking flu. We have it every year. The ridiculous hysteria needs to stop.

Pffft. I worked in healthcare longer than that, so enough "now show me yours" crapola. Not interested. This is about logic --- what works and what doesn't. It is NOT the "fucking flu", for which we have vaccines, it's way more contagious (R0=2.5) and it IS expanding exponentially. And the counteraction to that, in the limited experience we have, is to shut down and shut in. I posted this before but here's how a town in Italy did it. They literally tested everybody, symptomatic or not, and found that there's a TON of spreading going on from carriers who show no symptoms at all. That means it could literally be anywhere, and you can't tell by testing only the symptomatic. That town got infected, I believe they reported the first death in that country, and then they got rid of it. We ignore lessons like that at our own peril.

At this point so far into the pandemic, it is pretty much a total waste of time to argue with Covid denier retards any longer.

Trump blew off the virus and this is the result.

I suppose they're doing their part to keep people indoors and not out and about.

Not that indoors is the place to be anyway -- "at home" but not "indoors". There's plentiful sunshine out there folks, soak up some UV. Viruses hate that.