No Wonder Libs Are Upset - The Surge Is Working

[actsnoblemartin]

Frankly, Ive had just about enough of the insults, the name-calling and the personal attacks from both of you Red State and maineman. I would love to be both your friends, But if you both do not immediately KNOCK IT OFF. I am going to block both of you. You are both acting like 5 year olds.

Im sorry I have to be so harsh but this is ridiculous

Your both wrong.

Maineman is a patriot for serving, Red state is NOT a coward for not serving, its a personal choices.

All democrats are not evil, all republicans are not evil

Would you too Please grow up!

 

[maineman]

he has made some rather outlandish allegations. He has suggested that American casualties are down by 60% because of the surge....yet he posts a website showing DoD casualty figures which clearly show that the rate of Americans dying in Iraq has remained unchanged throughout the "surge" and is, in fact, over the past 6 months, 37% higher than the previous 6 months.

He continues to avoid that simple fact which disproves the very essence of this thread. He NEVER writes anything himself of ANY substance beyond a sentence or two...He NEVER answers questions posed to him.

He continues to post the same tired old press release from a british media centre in baghdad which shows that casualties in the baghdad area are down by 60% and IGNORES the fact that American casualties throughout the country remain at the same rate they have been for several months. He completely refuses to accept the logical conclusion of those two pieces of information: that while the deaths in baghdad proper are down, they are UP in other areas showing that the insurgents have just moved their carnage to where we do not have heavy troop concentrations.

AND he insults my service continually. I have only started pointing out that his membership in the fabled 101st Fighting Keyboardist's Brigade is really not SERVICE per se...and that his pompom waving for this war while braver Americans die in it repulses me

 

[actsnoblemartin]

Red State. I ask you to do the following. Please re-frain from long-winded newspaper articles, and please answer questions that are posted to you. Please stop attacking maineman, You do not have the right to attack any service man or woman, They put their lives on the line, so that we all have the right to post on message boards like this. While I do not agree with some of the colorful language used maineman, I understand his anger, because you have frankly been very mean to him as well. Before you are a conservative, and him a liberal, you are both americans, and should both be civil to each other.

Please make a conserted effort, to speak more from your heart, and less from a newspaper article.

 

[Dr Grump]

h
He continues to avoid that simple fact which disproves the very essence of this thread. He NEVER writes anything himself of ANY substance beyond a sentence or two...He NEVER answers questions posed to him.

Which is why I refuse to engage him. Why don't you guys try it too. He might go away.

Actsnoble, although hats off for your last post to Reds, we've all made similar posts. He doesn't listen. He is a bona fide whackjob...

 

[actsnoblemartin]

Maineman, if red state answers your questions, or admits he was wrong about his figure, will you cut him some slack, forgive him, move on and be nice to him?

I ask nothing of you that i wont ask him

And red state, if you provide the sources, speak more from your heart, answer the questions, and maineman is still mean to you, then do NOT tit for tat, and continue to engage in personal attacks.

I am not taking sides here.

I am doing my best to be fair and call it as i see it.

And red state, no matter what, stop questioning mainemans patriatism, he served for god sakes. And maineman, please do not cuss or be-little him

Thank you gentleman

 

[maineman]

Maineman, if red state answers your questions, or admits he was wrong about his figure, will you cut him some slack, forgive him, move on and be nice to him?

if pigs had wings, away they'd fly.

RSR will NEVER admit he is wrong about ANYTHING. EVER.

mark my words.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

Hello Mr Grump.

I understand, that I have not been here long, and maybe it is not my place to speak up, since i do not have the history that you and others have with each other. But I know i am flawed, biased, and sometimes a jerk. I wish to be friends with all of you, and I hope through dialogue, and time, not just i, but all of us, can learn to understand each other, and realize, we dont have to hate each other.

" A house divided cannot stand"

I really believe with all my heart, that every republican, must be able to criticize republicans as much as they do democrats, and give praise to democrats when they do good, as much as they would, if a democrat does wrong, and vice versa for a democratic person.

I just want to be a fair person, and i know its a nearly impossible goal, but maybe you can help me be a better person, and we can all help each other grow as human beings.

Thank for your time

 

[actsnoblemartin]

but if he was nicer to you, would you be nicer to him, if when he was wrong, he admitted it, would u admit when you were wrong.

i may be asking for miracles, in this forum, from all of us, including me, but we must start somewhere.

I want to make it clear, I do NOT give good reputations only to those i agree with, I give them to people i think are smart, regardless of your politics.

 

[maineman]

but if he was nicer to you, would you be nicer to him, if when he was wrong, he admitted it, would u admit when you were wrong.

i may be asking for miracles, in this forum, from all of us, including me, but we must start somewhere.

I want to make it clear, I do NOT give good reputations only to those i agree with, I give them to people i think are smart, regardless of your politics.

I would not care if RSR were NICER to me, if he merely engaged in a dialog with me using his own words...if he asked questions and I would answer...and then ask questions and he would answer.. it would be grand.

But listen....I am telling you right now....mark my words...that will NEVER happen.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

I may be completely wrong here, but it seems with maineman and red state, that each of them, considers the other, hopeless of change.

So i will ask these questions

Red state, is it possible for you to be nicer, to answer questions posed to you honestly and directly, without personal attacks

Maineman, is it possible for you to be nicer, and not to curse and give up on red state?.

I think your both intelligent men, and I think, this can be resolved.

Red state, ego goeth before the fall. Its time to be nicer

Maineman, Its time to not let red state get under your skin

Anyone else have any comments?

 

[maineman]

when RSR starts using his words to ask questions and answer questions that are asked of him..when he uses his own words to make his own arguments...I will be there to engage him in that debate...and we can both have our first back and forth discussion as to the possible reasons that Hell just froze over.

 

[maineman]

and RSR slinks away because he KNOWS he is dead wrong about how great this surge is...and he KNOWS that the carnage ain't gonna stop no matter what we do.... but he will NEVER admit that his butt buddy Bush is not the greatest president ever. his love of party over country is really pathetic.

 

[red states rule]

... And optimism in Iraq


Anyone remotely familiar with the analysis provided by retired Gen. Barry McCaffrey since the Iraq war began four years ago knows that he has been sharply critical of the Bush administration's diplomatic/military management of the Iraq war. Gen. McCaffrey (whose long, distinguished resume in the military and public service includes a stint as Bill Clinton's drug czar), visited Iraq last month, where he conducted "a strategic and operational assessment" of the security situation that provides ammunition for both sides of the U.S. debate. The first section of the report detailing the general's stark descriptions of the problems in Iraq have received extensive coverage in the press -- a report in The Washington Post, for example, was titled "McCaffrey Paints Gloomy Picture of Iraq." But the fact that Gen. McCaffrey also provides readers with reasons for optimism in Iraq (and said in a separate interview that it would be a military mistake for the Democrats to impose a binding deadline for withdrawal) tends to get overlooked.
Although only a fraction of the scheduled U.S. reinforcements had arrived in Baghdad when Gen. McCaffrey visited last month, he found that in the Iraqi capital "the murder rate has plummeted. IED attacks on U.S. forces during their formerly vulnerable daily transits from huge U.S. bases on the periphery of Baghdad are down -- since these forces are now permanently based in their operational area."
Some of the best news comes from Anbar Province in western Iraq, home to Sunni insurgents aligned with al Qaeda. "There is a real and growing ground swell of Sunni tribal opposition to the Al Qaeda-in-Iraq [AQI] terror formations," Gen. McCaffrey wrote. "This counter-Al Qaeda movement in Anbar Province was fostered by brilliant U.S. Marine leadership. There is now unmistakable evidence that the western Sunni tribes are increasingly convinced that they blundered badly by sitting out the political process. They are also keenly aware of the fragility of the continued U.S. military presence that stands between them and a vengeful and overwhelming Shia-Kurdish majority class -- which was brutally treated by Saddam and his cruel regime."
The Anbar Sunnis, Gen. McCaffrey said, are taking up arms to defeat al Qaeda and are cooperating with Iraqi security forces: "There is now active combat between Sunni tribal leadership and AQI terrorists. Of even greater importance, the Sunni tribes are now supplying their young men as drafts for the Iraqi police." Al Qaeda has responded with stepped-up violence aimed at intimidating the Sunni tribesmen -- further alienating them. While this has been occurring, critical improvements are being made in the Iraqi security forces. "The equipment and resources for the Iraqi security forces [ISF] has increased dramatically," he wrote. "The ISF training system is beginning to work effectively with their own trainers."
As Gen. McCaffrey made clear, a major reason why this has been going so well has been the performance of U.S. armed forces. American combat forces "are simply superb. The Army and Marine brigade, battalion and company commanders are the most experienced and talented leaders in our history. Re-enlistment rates are simply astonishing," he wrote. "The command and control technology, training, contractor support and flexibility of Marine and Army combat formations are magnificent."
This is not to say that success in Iraq is by any means assured. But Gen. McCaffrey's analysis shows that there is another side to the story in Iraq -- beyond all of the grim television footage and dire predictions about Iraq's future.


http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20070405-085905-8723r.htm

 

[maineman]

the opposition to AQ in Iraq from the sunnis in Anbar province is great news.... but the overriding issues of long standing that continue to spawn sunni-shiite sectarian violence are not addressed by such opposition.

Again...RSR neglects to engage in any sort of dialog, but continues to obfuscate and spin and avoid the tough questions by his standard method: cutting and pasting articles that do not address the questions he has been asked but seems afraid to answer.

 

[maineman]

Red state, is it possible for you to be nicer, to answer questions posed to you honestly and directly, without personal attacks?

actsnoblemartin.... wouldn't you agree that red states rule has, in fact, "answered" your question by not answering it?

 

[red states rule]

the opposition to AQ in Iraq from the sunnis in Anbar province is great news.... but the overriding issues of long standing that continue to spawn sunni-shiite sectarian violence are not addressed by such opposition.

Again...RSR neglects to engage in any sort of dialog, but continues to obfuscate and spin and avoid the tough questions by his standard method: cutting and pasting articles that do not address the questions he has been asked but seems afraid to answer.

The Future in Iraq
Eventually, Iraq will have a good future. Iranian-born journalist Amir Taheri sums up the situation really well in his piece here: "With a combination of intelligence, patience and determination, General Petraeus can win in Baghdad. The battleground where his chances do not appear as good is Washington. The United States today has become home to a veritable industry of defeat - producing books, TV documentaries, research papers, intelligence analyses and feature movies destined for a growing market. Almost every day, some article assuming that the United States has already been defeated in Iraq, and recommend measures to deal with the consequences of defeat. And when the United States does something, it does it Big: The defeat industry is assuming a bewildering scale." Eventually, the pessimistic paper publishing will end. And peace and happiness for Iraq will emerge.
http://www.kmax.ws/b/goodnewsiniraq.htm

 

[maineman]

actsnoblemartin.... wouldn't you agree that red states rule has, in fact, "answered" your question by not answering it?

actsnoblemartin: do you need any MORE "proof"?

 

[maineman]

RSR...rather than cut and paste some article from somewhere...why not take each of these paragraphs and address their content in your own words?

he has made some rather outlandish allegations. He has suggested that American casualties are down by 60% because of the surge....yet he posts a website showing DoD casualty figures which clearly show that the rate of Americans dying in Iraq has remained unchanged throughout the "surge" and is, in fact, over the past 6 months, 37% higher than the previous 6 months.

He continues to avoid that simple fact which disproves the very essence of this thread. He NEVER writes anything himself of ANY substance beyond a sentence or two...He NEVER answers questions posed to him.

He continues to post the same tired old press release from a british media centre in baghdad which shows that casualties in the baghdad area are down by 60% and IGNORES the fact that American casualties throughout the country remain at the same rate they have been for several months. He completely refuses to accept the logical conclusion of those two pieces of information: that while the deaths in baghdad proper are down, they are UP in other areas showing that the insurgents have just moved their carnage to where we do not have heavy troop concentrations.

AND he insults my service continually. I have only started pointing out that his membership in the fabled 101st Fighting Keyboardist's Brigade is really not SERVICE per se...and that his pompom waving for this war while braver Americans die in it repulses me

 

[red states rule]

CBS's Pizzey Calls McCain's Bright Take on Iraq 'Disgraceful,' Dismisses Bias Charges
Posted by Justin McCarthy on April 5, 2007 - 14:20.
CBS’s website’s feature "The Public Eye Chat" interviewed correspondent Allen Pizzey, who completely ignored some positive signs in Iraq in his grim report last month. Interviewer Brian Montopoli asked if John McCain’s optimistic statements on Iraqi progress "really sort of bothered reporters." Pizzey scuffed: "It’s disgraceful for a man seeking highest office, I think to talk utter rubbish." Pizzey claimed, that "no one in his right mind who has been to Baghdad believes that story," but he must not have checked the recent ABC story citing some improvement.

Montopoli followed up with a question of liberal bias, and quickly added that, that charge "has died down a little bit of late." Pizzey, of course denied that charge and accused the Bush administration of thinking "that anything that doesn’t wholly support everything they say is against them." The transcript of the relevant portion is below.

BRIAN MONTOPOLI: It seems that some reporters, including yourself and CNN's Michael Ware, have really taken umbrage at John McCain's recent comments, essentially saying that there are a lot of neighborhoods where you can walk around relatively safely. Is it fair to say that that really sort of bothered reporters?

ALLEN PIZZEY: Yes. It's disgraceful for a man seeking highest office, I think, to talk utter rubbish. And that is utter rubbish. It's electoral propaganda. It is simply not true. No one in his right mind who has been to Baghdad believes that story. Now, McCain and some other senators were there on Sunday, and they claimed, "Oh, we walked around for a whole hour…and we drove in from the airport. Gosh, aren't we great, we drove in from the airport." Excuse me, Mr. McCain, you drove in in a large convoy of heavily armed vehicles. The last one had a sign on it saying "Keep back 100 yards. Deadly force authorized." Every single car that they approached or passed pulled over and stopped, because that's the way it is. When one of those security details goes by, every ordinary person gets the hell out of the way, in case they get shot. If he did walk around that market, and I didn't see him do it, and he didn't announce he was going to do it, you can bet your life there were an awful lot of soldiers deployed to make sure that nobody came near that place. He's talking rubbish. And he should not get away with it.

MONTOPOLI: There used to be a pretty vigorous debate about whether the media is reporting the war through an anti-administration liberal bias lens, though that has died down a little bit of late. How do you feel about that argument?

PIZZEY: I dismiss that. Because I think the Bush administration in particular thinks that anything that doesn't wholly support everything they say is against them. And you don't have to support one side or the other. If the administration makes idiotic claims, or claims that are patently, to us on the ground, wrong, why should we not report that they're wrong? All we're doing is reporting what we can see and understand. Now, no reporter is as objective as we'd like to be. Objectivity is a principle to which we strive to adhere, but we all have our own little biases – our upbringing, our personal political beliefs, whatever touches us in a human way. All of that affects our reporting. But I don't think that we have a particular administration bias. I don't care one way or another. I'm not even American. I just happen to work for Americans. I just do my job.

http://newsbusters.org/node/11848

 

[maineman]

you really can't do it, can you?

wow.

what a moron.