No Wonder Libs Are Upset - The Surge Is Working

[maineman]

The Iraq government says they can handle things - we leave

That has always been the standard

that isn't what I asked. answer my question.

 

[red states rule]

that isn't what I asked. answer my question.

I should have know common sense, and a straight answer, would not register with you

 

[maineman]

I should have know common sense, and a straight answer, would not register with you

"red states rule" and "straight answer" do not belong in the same sentence unless separated by a negative modifier.

Can you please please pretty please just try to answer a simple question for me?

I am not asking you about what the Iraqi government says they are or are not capable of handling....I ask you, regardless of what the Iraq government claims:

if we leave in ten years, do you think that the sunnis and the shiites in Iraq will then love each other and forget about 1200 years of hatred and enmity and NOT want to slaughter each other the minute we finally DO leave?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

"red states rule" and "straight answer" do not belong in the same sentence unless separated by a negative modifier.

Can you please please pretty please just try to answer a simple question for me?

I am not asking you about what the Iraqi government says they are or are not capable of handling....I ask you, regardless of what the Iraq government claims:

if we leave in ten years, do you think that the sunnis and the shiites in Iraq will then love each other and forget about 1200 years of hatred and enmity and NOT want to slaughter each other the minute we finally DO leave?

Your question is irrelevent as if we succeed in making the Government strong enough to defend the country inside and out it doesn't matter.

It is another of your red herrings.

I bet you ask people questions like " So have you quit beating your wife? Yes or no please."

 

[maineman]

Your question is irrelevent as if we succeed in making the Government strong enough to defend the country inside and out it doesn't matter.

It is another of your red herrings.

I bet you ask people questions like " So have you quit beating your wife? Yes or no please."

so you think that a democratic government can keep two sects of Islam from fighting?

so you think that the more we train the Iraqi Army the more loyal they will be to the Iraqi government and not to their particular sect?

Robert E. Lee, USMA '29

 

[RetiredGySgt]

so you think that a democratic government can keep two sects of Islam from fighting?

so you think that the more we train the Iraqi Army the more loyal they will be to the Iraqi government and not to their particular sect?

Robert E. Lee, USMA '29

As I have pointed out, I don't give a rats ass if Iraq is Democratic or not. But why is MY assuming the Government can work wrong and your assuming it can not right?

Last I checked Iraq has not had each side killing each other in great numbers in the past either, even when a dictator wasn't running the country. Your OPINION is just that, an opinion.Please provide examples of civil war from 1960 to 2002 in Iraq. Of large scale Sunni versus Shiite violance.

 

[maineman]

As I have pointed out, I don't give a rats ass if Iraq is Democratic or not. But why is MY assuming the Government can work wrong and your assuming it can not right?

Last I checked Iraq has not had each side killing each other in great numbers in the past either, even when a dictator wasn't running the country. Your OPINION is just that, an opinion.Please provide examples of civil war from 1960 to 2002 in Iraq. Of large scale Sunni versus Shiite violance.

there has never been democracy in Iraq and certainly none between the years you mention. I have no doubt that a strong man with a loyal army can keep sunnis and shiites from killing one another...and wouldn't that be a great solution to our problem now? Odd thing: that is exactly what we had before we fucked up and tipped over the apple cart by invading in the first place!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

there has never been democracy in Iraq and certainly none between the years you mention. I have no doubt that a strong man with a loyal army can keep sunnis and shiites from killing one another...and wouldn't that be a great solution to our problem now? Odd thing: that is exactly what we had before we fucked up and tipped over the apple cart by invading in the first place!

Ya, I see your point, because there was no limited democracy before, it can not possibly work now. Got ya.

 

[Shogun]

Commanders Say Push in Baghdad Is Short of Goal

BAGHDAD, June 3 — Three months after the start of the Baghdad security plan that has added thousands of American and Iraqi troops to the capital, they control fewer than one-third of the city’s neighborhoods, far short of the initial goal for the operation, according to some commanders and an internal military assessment.

The American assessment, completed in late May, found that American and Iraqi forces were able to “protect the population” and “maintain physical influence over” only 146 of the 457 Baghdad neighborhoods.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/04/w...en=ee19d05a11461240&ei=5099&partner=TOPIXNEWS


"No Wonder Libs Are Upset - The Surge Is Working"

 

[maineman]

Ya, I see your point, because there was no limited democracy before, it can not possibly work now. Got ya.

you keep spinning like a fucking top.

My POINT is that Iraq, as a country, is an artificial construct of Europeans dividing up the Ottoman Empire as spoils of war. They had no clue who sunnis and shiites or kurd were...they were all just rag headed brown skinned monkeys to the brits. there has NEVER been an democratic government in Iraq..there is no reason to believe that these two groups of people - who fucking hate each other - have any desire to ever form a vibrant multicultural jeffersonian democracy with one another. it has always been a fantasy held forth by neocons with as much understanding of the ethnic divides in Iraq as the Europeans who created it in the first place. When you take away the american presence, the Iraqi army will devolve into sunni and shiite camps quicker than it took Robert E. Lee to resign HIS commission in the US Army once OUR civil war started.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

you keep spinning like a fucking top.

My POINT is that Iraq, as a country, is an artificial construct of Europeans dividing up the Ottoman Empire as spoils of war. They had no clue who sunnis and shiites or kurd were...they were all just rag headed brown skinned monkeys to the brits. there has NEVER been an democratic government in Iraq..there is no reason to believe that these two groups of people - who fucking hate each other - have any desire to ever form a vibrant multicultural jeffersonian democracy with one another. it has always been a fantasy held forth by neocons with as much understanding of the ethnic divides in Iraq as the Europeans who created it in the first place. When you take away the american presence, the Iraqi army will devolve into sunni and shiite camps quicker than it took Robert E. Lee to resign HIS commission in the US Army once OUR civil war started.

Your opinion.

 

[maineman]

Your opinion.

wow. no kidding? imagine that... a guy posting his opinions on a political bulletin board where the motto is "where your voices count".

And normally.... when people post an opinion that I disagree with, my approach is to dissect their opinion and offer points in rebuttal.

your approach seems to be to post really inane responses like THIS one.

good job sarge. fucking brilliant! really.

 

[Shogun]

The operation “is at a difficult point right now, to be sure,” said Brig. Gen. Vincent K. Brooks, the deputy commander of the First Cavalry Division, which has responsibility for Baghdad.


another opinion... but, thankfully, this brig. gen.'s opinon is just a left wing hype from mediamatters and george soros...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

wow. no kidding? imagine that... a guy posting his opinions on a political bulletin board where the motto is "where your voices count".

And normally.... when people post an opinion that I disagree with, my approach is to dissect their opinion and offer points in rebuttal.

your approach seems to be to post really inane responses like THIS one.

good job sarge. fucking brilliant! really.

No, my experience with you is you play word games, you throw up Red herrings and you resort to name calling if we disagree with you and don't follow your instructions on how we are allowed to respond.

 

[Shogun]

No, my experience with you is you play word games, you throw up Red herrings and you resort to name calling if we disagree with you and don't follow your instructions on how we are allowed to respond.

HAHAHA!

now THAT is rich!

 

[maineman]

No, my experience with you is you play word games, you throw up Red herrings and you resort to name calling if we disagree with you and don't follow your instructions on how we are allowed to respond.

your "experience" is not the issue here. I stated my opinion about why I felt that attempting to squeeze Iraq into some cookie cutter mold of democracy was an exercise in futility...and I provided some well thought out rationale to support my opinion.

and your brilliant retort was "your opinion"

no shit.... what gave you your first clue, Sherlock?

 

[midcan5]

Assuming the surge is working, does that then mean this administration has failed until now to develop a plan to end this and bring the troops home? This is a long time coming for Bush apologists to claim success, especially given the state of Iraq after all this time.

 

[Care4all]

Assuming the surge is working, does that then mean this administration has failed until now to develop a plan to end this and bring the troops home? This is a long time coming for Bush apologists to claim success, especially given the state of Iraq after all this time.

Welcome Midcan!

Care

 

[TheStripey1]

I read your link with interest....

I don't think anyone finds anything surprising about the fact that crime goes down in a town when you dump 20K more cops on the street.

Iraq, in total, remains a bloody place where sunnis continue to hate shi'ites. Do we really think that putting 150K "policemen" in the midst of the Hatfields and the McCoys will mean that whenever we take the "policemen" away, that the Hatfields will miraculously love the McCoys and vice versa?

they will in the bush bot reality... problem is tho, that that reality isn't in touch with the REAL reality...

 

[TheStripey1]

I'm not going to argue that with you, seems you have a point. But I did wonder where he came up with that particular number. This might be a hint. See, while I might agree that he just spins, he does have something usually to back him up. In this case, I think he 'heard' something, but couldn't find the link.

Thinking about that, it puts RSR ahead of many on both the right and left at the boards, his links can nearly always be checked. His ad libs, well...

His links? I've asked him and asked him and asked him to provide links for the garbage he spews... but alas, rsr doesn't DO links... unless of course, they are MONTHS old... do you, Kathianne, think it is wise for rsr to use out dated information to try to prove his case?