North Carolina approves amendment banning gay marriage

[Dr Grump]

What is debating intelligence?

Is that like CIA stuff?

No worse than 'most homosexuals possess homosexual behaviour' like on your thread....

 

[Mr.Nick]

Poor form....

And if you debate intelligence with her, you'd lose every time...

Poor form?

You can believe what you like..

Not a matter of belief at all...

All I can say is:

 

[Dr Grump]

Well, there is a difference between marriage and civil unions.

I suppose I could care less if gays want civil unions, however I am opposed to gay marriage.

I view marriage as a religious based sacrament which has First Amendment implications...

Can you tell me how it affects you.

let's pretend a gay couple (male or female, doesn't matter) get married and move in next door to you.

Habits aside (maybe they like loud music, or rev up their car at 5.30 every morning), how does their maritial status impact on your life one iota.

If anybody could give me one example where a gay couple getting married impacts on their life, then please do...but be prepared for your answer to be eviscerated....

If you could give us one example where a neighbor who doesn't recognize gay marriages impacts the gay couple's lives, then please do so....because thats what this "issue" is really about. Gays can get married in any state at any "church" that performs them. All these so called "gay marriage bans" do is say that the government won't recognize gay marriages.

Why do gay people care so much if everyone else doesn't care about their so-called marriages? None of their rights are being denied or violated, they enjoy the same rights as non-married folks.

It doesn't matter if the neighbour does or does not recognise the marriage, only what the law says.

IMO it is about certain citizens having rights and others not. That has been tried over the eons in many civilisations - never ends well.

Also, why shouldn't they have these rights for the sake of it? What gives anybody the right to take them away - especially when they hae no affect on you?

 

[Mr.Nick]

What's the difference if they get a marriage license from a registry office?

Well one is authorized and endorsed by the church/temple/mosque, the other is endorsed by the state.

I realise this. Therefore if gay couples went to the registry office they would be getting a marriage license, yeah?

I do realise that there are some Christian gays who would want the Church to force them to be married, and yes, that would be an issue. I know that Church of England pastors etc marry gay couples in the UK. Sure there would be a few happy to do the same in the US..

It's not a marriage license - it's a contract....

They should change the name of the certificate (contract) if they're going to be issuing them for civil unions...

When they first started issuing the contracts/certificates no one would have ever thought that gay "marriage" would ever be a realistic social issue......

This isn't exactly Rome....

 

[KevinWestern]

Should Catholic churches be forced to marry gay people??

This question makes no sense, the 14th Amendment applies only to public sector entities. The issue doesn’t involve religious institutions in any way.

Try the First Amendment....

Outside of that -- that is the difference between a civil union and a marriage. A marriage is endorsed by the church and a Civil Union is endorsed by the government.

Nick, I'm married under state law to my wife (we are not "civil unioned"). We don't belong to any church, nor has the church endorsed or given the "ok" to anything to do with our marriage.

The government gives out (a) civil unions (same and opposite sex) and (b) marriages (opposite sex). But the two are not one in the same.

The argument is that the government - given it's public, religion-neutral nature - should allow both same-sex and opposite-sex couples to be eligible to be "married".

This has nothing to do with private institutions like the church.

 

[KevinWestern]

Well, there is a difference between marriage and civil unions.

I suppose I could care less if gays want civil unions, however I am opposed to gay marriage.

I view marriage as a religious based sacrament which has First Amendment implications...

Can you tell me how it affects you.

let's pretend a gay couple (male or female, doesn't matter) get married and move in next door to you.

Habits aside (maybe they like loud music, or rev up their car at 5.30 every morning), how does their maritial status impact on your life one iota.

If anybody could give me one example where a gay couple getting married impacts on their life, then please do...but be prepared for your answer to be eviscerated....

If you could give us one example where a neighbor who doesn't recognize gay marriages impacts the gay couple's lives, then please do so....because thats what this "issue" is really about. Gays can get married in any state at any "church" that performs them. All these so called "gay marriage bans" do is say that the government won't recognize gay marriages.

Why do gay people care so much if everyone else doesn't care about their so-called marriages? None of their rights are being denied or violated, they enjoy the same rights as non-married folks.

This topic isn't with regards to private institutions, as they can do whatever they like.

We're talking about strictly the public sector here, and how they should recognize same-sex marriage in the same way they do opposite-sex.

And why do gay people care so much if the state doesn't recognize them as married under law? Do I even have to answer this question?

Just a few reasons:

joint parenting;
joint adoption;
joint foster care, custody, and visitation (including non-biological parents);
status as next-of-kin for hospital visits and medical decisions where one partner is too ill to be competent;
joint insurance policies for home, auto and health;
dissolution and divorce protections such as community property and child support;
immigration and residency for partners from other countries;
inheritance automatically in the absence of a will;
joint leases with automatic renewal rights in the event one partner dies or leaves the house or apartment;
inheritance of jointly-owned real and personal property through the right of survivorship (which avoids the time and expense and taxes in probate);
benefits such as annuities, pension plans, Social Security, and Medicare;
spousal exemptions to property tax increases upon the death of one partner who is a co-owner of the home;


.
.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Can you tell me how it affects you.

let's pretend a gay couple (male or female, doesn't matter) get married and move in next door to you.

Habits aside (maybe they like loud music, or rev up their car at 5.30 every morning), how does their maritial status impact on your life one iota.

If anybody could give me one example where a gay couple getting married impacts on their life, then please do...but be prepared for your answer to be eviscerated....

If you could give us one example where a neighbor who doesn't recognize gay marriages impacts the gay couple's lives, then please do so....because thats what this "issue" is really about. Gays can get married in any state at any "church" that performs them. All these so called "gay marriage bans" do is say that the government won't recognize gay marriages.

Why do gay people care so much if everyone else doesn't care about their so-called marriages? None of their rights are being denied or violated, they enjoy the same rights as non-married folks.

It doesn't matter if the neighbour does or does not recognise the marriage, only what the law says.

IMO it is about certain citizens having rights and others not. That has been tried over the eons in many civilisations - never ends well.

Also, why shouldn't they have these rights for the sake of it? What gives anybody the right to take them away - especially when they hae no affect on you?

Why do you care? considering the way you spell words there is a good chance you're not even a US citizen - that or just illiterate.

"Neighbour"

You mean neighbor?

 

[KevinWestern]

Are you saying that no one who is getting married has children? I think that is a bit close minded of you.

The simple fact is that some people who are involved in same sex relationships have children, and that any talk of same sex marriage has to admit that, and admit that those children also have rights. I am pretty sure the entire rational for allowing the state to jump into regulating marriage in the first place can be boiled down to "It's for the children." That means that this debate has to include the rights of children to be realistic.

Apologies - I misunderstood you earlier.

So - obviously everyone has rights. But what are the rights, exactly, that you are talking about with regards to children and their parents, as it relates to this conversation about same-sex couples?

The same rights that they have in any marriage. I don't really know what they are, not being a family law specialist.

What point are you trying to make Windbag? That's what I'm trying to get at....


.

 

[Mr.Nick]

This question makes no sense, the 14th Amendment applies only to public sector entities. The issue doesn’t involve religious institutions in any way.

Try the First Amendment....

Outside of that -- that is the difference between a civil union and a marriage. A marriage is endorsed by the church and a Civil Union is endorsed by the government.

Nick, I'm married under state law to my wife (we are not "civil unioned"). We don't belong to any church, nor has the church endorsed or given the "ok" to anything to do with our marriage.

The government gives out (a) civil unions (same and opposite sex) and (b) marriages (opposite sex). But the two are not one in the same.

The argument is that the government - given it's public, religion-neutral nature - should allow both same-sex and opposite-sex couples to be eligible to be "married".

This has nothing to do with private institutions like the church.

I believe the person in question was making reference to the "Equal Protection Clause."

Which BTW could justify Socialism.....

 

[KevinWestern]

Hence Civil Unions......

What's the difference if they get a marriage license from a registry office?

Well one is authorized and endorsed by the church/temple/mosque, the other is endorsed by the state.

Nick, do you understand that the State endorses both marriages AND civil unions?

Again, I am married (under State law), and have no connection whatsoever to any church, mosque, or synagogue. 100% state endorsement.

.

 

[Mr.Nick]

What's the difference if they get a marriage license from a registry office?

Well one is authorized and endorsed by the church/temple/mosque, the other is endorsed by the state.

Nick, do you understand that the State endorses both marriages AND civil unions?

.

Depends on which state and if the union in question is between a man and a woman or gay...

 

[Dr Grump]

If you could give us one example where a neighbor who doesn't recognize gay marriages impacts the gay couple's lives, then please do so....because thats what this "issue" is really about. Gays can get married in any state at any "church" that performs them. All these so called "gay marriage bans" do is say that the government won't recognize gay marriages.

Why do gay people care so much if everyone else doesn't care about their so-called marriages? None of their rights are being denied or violated, they enjoy the same rights as non-married folks.

It doesn't matter if the neighbour does or does not recognise the marriage, only what the law says.

IMO it is about certain citizens having rights and others not. That has been tried over the eons in many civilisations - never ends well.

Also, why shouldn't they have these rights for the sake of it? What gives anybody the right to take them away - especially when they hae no affect on you?

Why do you care? considering the way you spell words there is a good chance you're not even a US citizen - that or just illiterate.

"Neighbour"

You mean neighbor?

More importantly, why do you care if they get married or not.

Yeah, well, if you knew anything you'd know I am not American. I spell neighbour the way it is supposed to be spelt - you know, how the English spell it, the people who invented the language...

Are you the guy that referred to himself as Sicilian recently? So are you an Italian, Italian-American, or just an American??

 

[KevinWestern]

Well one is authorized and endorsed by the church/temple/mosque, the other is endorsed by the state.

Nick, do you understand that the State endorses both marriages AND civil unions?

.

Depends on which state and if the union in question is between a man and a woman or gay...

Not following you....

The State issues both marriage licenses and civil unions, and this action has nothing to do with any church or religious organization.

One can get married at a church, and then also obtain a state marriage license, or one can just simply obtain a state marriage license and skip the whole church thing all together.

How do you think straight atheists get married? They don't go to a Catholic Church - I'll tell you that....

 

[Mr.Nick]

Besides didn't Clinton sponsor DOMA??

 

[KevinWestern]

Besides didn't Clinton sponsor DOMA??

Besides what?

I'm not a Democrat.......

.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

We're talking about strictly the public sector here, and how they should recognize same-sex marriage in the same way they do opposite-sex.

Consider also the simple fact that excluding a class of persons from accessing a state’s marriage law is offensive to our Constitution and the fundamental principles of the American Nation:

It is not within our constitutional tradition to enact laws of this sort. Central both to the idea of the rule of law and to our own Constitution's guarantee of equal protection is the principle that government and each of its parts remain open on impartial terms to all who seek its assistance.

Respect for this principle explains why laws singling out a certain class of citizens for disfavored legal status or general hardships are rare. A law declaring that in general it shall be more difficult for one group of citizens than for all others to seek aid from the government is itself a denial of equal protection of the laws in the most literal sense.

Romer, Governor of Colorado, et al. v. Evans et al., 517 U.S. 620 (1996).

 

[Mr.Nick]

It doesn't matter if the neighbour does or does not recognise the marriage, only what the law says.

IMO it is about certain citizens having rights and others not. That has been tried over the eons in many civilisations - never ends well.

Also, why shouldn't they have these rights for the sake of it? What gives anybody the right to take them away - especially when they hae no affect on you?

Why do you care? considering the way you spell words there is a good chance you're not even a US citizen - that or just illiterate.

"Neighbour"

You mean neighbor?

More importantly, why do you care if they get married or not.

Yeah, well, if you knew anything you'd know I am not American. I spell neighbour the way it is supposed to be spelt - you know, how the English spell it, the people who invented the language...

Are you the guy that referred to himself as Sicilian recently? So are you an Italian, Italian-American, or just an American??

I don't care - all I want to see is a distinguishment between marriage and civil unions...

As a libertarian I could really care less who fucks who and who marries who.

As a Catholic I find "gay marriage" to be wrong - however, what others do is their own business...

Unlike many I'm able to separate my politics from my religion (or personal belief structure).

 

[Mr.Nick]

Besides didn't Clinton sponsor DOMA??

Besides what?

I'm not a Democrat.......

.

I never claimed you were...

As a matter of fact, I believe DOMA was passed by a republican House and Senate and signed into law by Bill Clinton...

If it matters I'm not a republican - not a RINO at least..

 

[KevinWestern]

Why do you care? considering the way you spell words there is a good chance you're not even a US citizen - that or just illiterate.

"Neighbour"

You mean neighbor?

More importantly, why do you care if they get married or not.

Yeah, well, if you knew anything you'd know I am not American. I spell neighbour the way it is supposed to be spelt - you know, how the English spell it, the people who invented the language...

Are you the guy that referred to himself as Sicilian recently? So are you an Italian, Italian-American, or just an American??

I don't care - all I want to see is a distinguishment between marriage and civil unions...

As a libertarian I could really care less who fucks who and who marries who.

As a Catholic I find "gay marriage" to be wrong - however, what others do is their own business...

Unlike many I'm able to separate my politics from my religion (or personal belief structure).

If you are a libertarian and care less who marries who, then why do propose that same-sex couples seek a "civil union", and opposite-sex couples seek a "marriage" under state law?

Why not just call them both the same thing - "marriage" (under state law)?

.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Nick, do you understand that the State endorses both marriages AND civil unions?

.

Depends on which state and if the union in question is between a man and a woman or gay...

Not following you....

The State issues both marriage licenses and civil unions, and this action has nothing to do with any church or religious organization.

One can get married at a church, and then also obtain a state marriage license, or one can just simply obtain a state marriage license and skip the whole church thing all together.

How do you think straight atheists get married? They don't go to a Catholic Church - I'll tell you that....

For the last time...

Church endorsed unions (man and woman) = Marriage

State endorsed unions (straight or gay) = Civil Union

That is all I'm saying...