Zone1 Norwegian Jews seek changes to national calendar that ignores Judaism

[Disir]

Norway’s Jewish community said it will petition the country’s Supreme Court unless observant Jews get more of their holidays recognized in the national calendar system.


The current law on national holidays, which was updated last year, guarantees all employees 12 days off, many of them in connection with Christian holidays. In addition to those, non-Christians are entitled to paid leave on two additional days of their choosing.


Under this system, Jews, Muslims and members of other recognized faiths working in the public sector, from government employees to school teachers, are forced to work on some of their holidays. The issue is less acute in the private sector, as private companiNes tend to accommodate the religious needs of their employees.

Norwegian Jews seek changes to national calendar that ignores Judaism

Under the current system in Oslo, Jews can be forced to work on some of their holidays.

www.jpost.com

This will be interesting to watch unfold because Norway's state religion is the Lutheran Church of Norway.

 

[Lisa558]

A solution, which I wish they would use in this country, would be to take away one of the Christian holidays - say, Easter - and replace it with a floating holiday. Christians can use the floating holiday to take off Easter, so they’ve lost nothing, and Jews can use it for one of the Jewish holidays, Muslims for one of their holidays, and so forth.

 

[zaangalewa]

A solution, which I wish they would use in this country, would be to take away one of the Christian holidays ...

May I ask what's your nationality and why you think you know what's the best for the vikings of Norway?

A simple information in this context: A normal year has 12 month (354 days) and it exists an intercalary year with 13 months (384 days). That's why it is nearly impossible to find common dates in the Gregorian calender. In general are Christian and Jewish holidays not very different: Easter is at pessach for example - and pessach is in most Christian countries still the name of Easter.

 

[zaangalewa]

A solution, which I wish they would use in this country, would be to take away one of the Christian holidays - say, Easter - and replace it with a floating holiday. ...

You like to replace the most important Christian holiday with what? By the way: "Holiday" comes from "holy day". In the middle ages about 1/3rd of all days of a year had been holidays.

And: When the holiday Easter is then this means not that everyone has to celebrate Easter. Why for heavens sake should a Jew or Muslim or Buddhist or Atheist or Shamanist do so? But this means not that everyone has to dance in the streets at Good Friday - as some atheists like to do - to show in this way their militant joy that Jesus is dead - while they call this fake-joy and senseless provocation and lack of self-control the same time "freedom".

 

[Lisa558]

May I ask what's your nationality and why you think you know what's the best for the vikings of Norway?

A simple information in this context: A normal year has 12 month (354 days) and it exists an intercalary year with 13 months (384 days). That's why it is nearly impossible to find common dates in the Gregorian calender. In general are Christian and Jewish holidays not very different: Easter is at pessach for example - and pessach is in most Christian countries still the name of Easter.

Pessach is Easter? And while they do come at around the same time, they are not always on the same day. Why not let Christians take off Easter, and Jews work that day; and let Jews take off the first day of Passover, and let Christians work that day?

And true, it would be impossible to find common days between Christian and Jewish holidays. That is why I suggested a floating holiday. There could even be two floating holidays. Christians could use them for two of their holidays, Jews for two of theirs, Muslims for two of theirs, and so forth. Doesn’t that seem the most egalitarian, rather than let Christians have their holidays off and require other religions to take annual leave for theirs?

 

[Lisa558]

You like to replace the most important Christian holiday with what? By the way: "Holiday" comes from "holy day". In the middle ages about 1/3rd of all days of a year had been holidays.

And: When the holiday Easter is then this means not that everyone has to celebrate Easter. Why for heavens sake should a Jew or Muslim or Buddhist or Atheist or Shamanist do so? But this means not that everyone has to dance in the streets at Good Friday - as some atheists like to do - to show in this way their militant joy that Jesus is dead - while they call this fake-joy and senseless provocation and lack of self-control the same time "freedom".

I’m not replacing it. Christians can still use their floating holiday to celebrate Christmas. It’s just that the floating holiday would allow Jews and Muslims to ALSO get a chance to celebrate their holidays without have to use a vacation day.

 

[SweetSue92]

A solution, which I wish they would use in this country, would be to take away one of the Christian holidays - say, Easter - and replace it with a floating holiday. Christians can use the floating holiday to take off Easter, so they’ve lost nothing, and Jews can use it for one of the Jewish holidays, Muslims for one of their holidays, and so forth.

Easter is on a Sunday, obviously--I don't think national offices get "Easter Monday" off, do they? So the purpose of this day as a national holiday--for the post office and federal bureaucracy to have the day off--(heh)--seems pointless.

 

[Lisa558]

Easter is on a Sunday, obviously--I don't think national offices get "Easter Monday" off, do they? So the purpose of this day as a national holiday--for the post office and federal bureaucracy to have the day off--(heh)--seems pointless.

I think they do get off on the Monday after Easter, but I don’t remember exactly because it didn’t impact me.

But let’s say they don’t. Let’s stick with Christmas as an example. Wouldn’t it be more fair to other religions to make that a floating holiday, so that Christians could use it to take off Christmas, and Jews for examples could use it to take off Yom Kippur?

Here’s what would happen: Most Christians would take off Christmas, and it would be a very quiet day at the office for those of us who chose to save the floating day for something else. This way, we are not showing favoritism for one religion over others.

 

[SweetSue92]

I think they do get off on the Monday after Easter, but I don’t remember exactly because it didn’t impact me.

But let’s say they don’t. Let’s stick with Christmas as an example. Wouldn’t it be more fair to other religions to make that a floating holiday, so that Christians could use it to take off Christmas, and Jews for examples could use it to take off Yom Kippur?

Here’s what would happen: Most Christians would take off Christmas, and it would be a very quiet day at the office for those of us who chose to save the floating day for something else. This way, we are not showing favoritism for one religion over others.

The only issue I foresee is school calendars. If you don't make the major holidays a "national holiday"--I don't know if you can justify then taking a week off around Christmas. In public schools. So then, you have all the staff taking "vacation days" for their religious holiday, so you have no one staffing the school at any rate. So the school has to close anyway.

It's like if you upset the system too much it...upsets the system and then it's worse than before.

We do have heavily Jewish communities in our area and the public schools have Rosh Hashanah and other holidays off on the calendar. To my knowledge they've never had a problem with that from anyone.

 

[Lisa558]

The only issue I foresee is school calendars. If you don't make the major holidays a "national holiday"--I don't know if you can justify then taking a week off around Christmas. In public schools. So then, you have all the staff taking "vacation days" for their religious holiday, so you have no one staffing the school at any rate. So the school has to close anyway.

It's like if you upset the system too much it...upsets the system and then it's worse than before.

We do have heavily Jewish communities in our area and the public schools have Rosh Hashanah and other holidays off on the calendar. To my knowledge they've never had a problem with that from anyone.

But it wouldn’t be a problem closing schools for the week of Christmas. It would just be called “Winter Break” the same way we have “Spring Break.” (And as far as your schools closing on Jewish holidays, I doubt most schools do that.)

I’m thinking more of the work world. It’s not really fair to have a national holiday that favors just one religion. The idea of a floating holiday or two - they could be called “Religious Observance Days” - would allow people of all religions to choose which religious holidays to take. Isn’t that more fair?

 

[SweetSue92]

But it wouldn’t be a problem closing schools for the week of Christmas. It would just be called “Winter Break” the same way we have “Spring Break.” (And as far as your schools closing on Jewish holidays, I doubt most schools do that.)

I’m thinking more of the work world. It’s not really fair to have a national holiday that favors just one religion. The idea of a floating holiday or two - they could be called “Religious Observance Days” - would allow people of all religions to choose which religious holidays to take. Isn’t that more fair?

Yes I have no problem with that. Might even be more necessary since it seems Juneteenth and who knows what will be added (and what's Labor Day? Does anyone really "celebrate" Labor Day?)

I'm just thinking ahead to the inevitable bleed into the public schools. If we can maintain status without people losing their minds, I'm okay with it. And if you are in a mostly Jewish or Muslim district and your district plans holidays around that--fine.

 

[Lisa558]

Yes I have no problem with that. Might even be more necessary since it seems Juneteenth and who knows what will be added (and what's Labor Day? Does anyone really "celebrate" Labor Day?)

I'm just thinking ahead to the inevitable bleed into the public schools. If we can maintain status without people losing their minds, I'm okay with it. And if you are in a mostly Jewish or Muslim district and your district plans holidays around that--fine.

The schools could be a problem, I agree, but then we could keep the status quo for schools and just add the floating day for the workworld.

 

[zaangalewa]

Pessach is Easter?

Jesus was Jew who celebrated Pessach before he died. So Easter and Pessach have a common root.

And while they do come at around the same time, they are not always on the same day.

That's why I wrote you something about different calendars.

Why not let Christians take off Easter, and Jews work that day;

And to a public school have to go this day the children of the Jewish teacher for mathematics but not the children of the Christian teacher for Scandinavian history?

and let Jews take off the first day of Passover, and let Christians work that day?

So the children have always to go to school and only the teachers have holidays?

The problem existst also in all other jobs - except a Christian and a Jew have the same job in a company so always one of them is available.

And true, it would be impossible to find common days between Christian and Jewish holidays. That is why I suggested a floating holiday.

What makes not any sense because all holidays are "floating". No one is forced to celebrate Christmas at Christmas. The Jewish equivalent in this days is Chanukka.

There could even be two floating holidays. Christians could use them for two of their holidays, Jews for two of theirs, Muslims for two of theirs, and so forth.

Again: The phrase "floating holidays" is an empty phrase.

Doesn’t that seem the most egalitarian, rather than let Christians have their holidays off and require other religions to take annual leave for theirs?

Good grief. Do you know what "Friday" means? Friday is one of the days of a special Jewish psychological time unit which we call normally "week". A week has seven days. Friday is the day of Frigg.

 

[zaangalewa]

Easter is on a Sunday, obviously--I don't think national offices get "Easter Monday" off, do they?

In Germany also Easter Monday is a holiday. And only militant atheists protest against Christian holidays in Germany. Never heard that anyone else protested here.

So the purpose of this day as a national holiday--for the post office and federal bureaucracy to have the day off--(heh)--seems pointless.

Not so in Norway. At Easter they have 3 traditional holidays: Maundy Thursday, Good Friday and Easter Monday. Easter Sunday is a Sunday - and I guess the Holy Saturday is not a full normal workday. I don't know the Norwegian traditions - but in general I'm always for traditions because traditions give rhythm. And who likes not to celebrate the holidays of Thailand when he lives in Thailand for example? But I guess the US-Americans there will also celebrate the 4th of July.