Now Can You Imagine If That School Shooting Took Place In Chicago?

[Auld Phart]

CCL?

Concealed Carry License?

CCLs require a deeper background check than a firearm does.

They wouldn't need a background check for a private sale in Illinois either.

No, the federal laws concerning firearms are the same in all 50 states (duh), and federal law makes it illegal for anyone but a licensed dealer to engage in interstate transfers (that means both sales, and transport) of firearms. If people are doing it, they are breaking the law, thus proving once again that gun laws do nothing to prevent criminals from breaking them. Fucking, duh.

You guys are concentrating on the steak and not the peas. The point is Chicago has and will continue to have a high rate of gun violence, in spite of their ban, because of the availability of most any type of weapon in the surrounding communities. Yes. Gun running is illegal; the penalties laughable, in respect to the carnage it creates. It would also seem that current gun laws are a joke as well. Granted some guns will inevitably slip through into the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. But the ease at which these people can obtain firearms is astonishing. I can fill the trunk of a car with guns and ammunition from a show. Until I cross the border, I have yet to commit a crime nor had any sort of background check performed. By then it's probably too late for law enforcement.

Only by buying them illegally, or did you miss that point?

You cannot, under Federal Law, buy a handgun in a state other than your state of residence, without arranging for shipment TO a licensed dealer, in your state of residence.

None of them would be bought illegally. It would be near impossible to determine intent.

If they are buying them in a state they do not reside in,

they are, under FEDERAL LAW, buying them ILLEGALLY

 

[Flopper]

There's a black market because of crappy gun nut states make it so easy . Other first world countries don't have the same issues we do.

And Arron Burr shot Hamilton back in the day . Gun violence isn't new .

More BS. It's illegal to transfer guns over state lines unless it is being transferred between licensed dealers. Another case where the law obviously doesn't stop criminals, only us law-abiding folk are affected.

Other countries have even worse issues that we do, not the least of which is the fact that they don't enjoy the same freedoms that we have...freedoms that ninnies like you would gladly give away for a little false security.

Uh, Burr and Hamilton had this thing called a duel...which you should probably be glad we don't still do today.

Gun laws are weak and ineffective because they are designed to be. The gun lobby makes sure of that. Our gun laws have no chance of really reducing the killing. They are like taking an aspirin to cure cancer.

More bullshit. Gun laws are weak and ineffective because CRIMINALS DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT LAWS. Such a simple truth, yet allegedly intelligent people can't seem to grasp it.

Even if we had strong laws there would still be criminals getting guns just as there would be speeders on the highway regardless of the traffic laws but that is no reason not to have the laws. The purpose of gun control laws should be to reduce gun violence, not to eliminate it. In this country, it's just not possible to eliminate all gun violence.

What gun control laws can do is reduce the number of guns and make it more difficult to obtain guns so they are less available to the mentally ill, and people in fits of angry which accounts for most of the deaths from firearms. Also, reduction in the number of guns and their killing capacity will help level keep the playing field level for police. The only reason that civilians need to arm themselves for protection is that police are not able to protect them. Stronger gun control laws will help police protect the public.

There is no perfect solution but less guns in the hands of the public will meant less deaths from guns.

 

[Dan Daly]

There's a black market because of crappy gun nut states make it so easy . Other first world countries don't have the same issues we do.

And Arron Burr shot Hamilton back in the day . Gun violence isn't new .

More BS. It's illegal to transfer guns over state lines unless it is being transferred between licensed dealers. Another case where the law obviously doesn't stop criminals, only us law-abiding folk are affected.

Other countries have even worse issues that we do, not the least of which is the fact that they don't enjoy the same freedoms that we have...freedoms that ninnies like you would gladly give away for a little false security.

Uh, Burr and Hamilton had this thing called a duel...which you should probably be glad we don't still do today.

Gun laws are weak and ineffective because they are designed to be. The gun lobby makes sure of that. Our gun laws have no chance of really reducing the killing. They are like taking an aspirin to cure cancer.

More bullshit. Gun laws are weak and ineffective because CRIMINALS DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT LAWS. Such a simple truth, yet allegedly intelligent people can't seem to grasp it.

Even if we had strong laws there would still be criminals getting guns just as there would be speeders on the highway regardless of the traffic laws but that is no reason not to have the laws. The purpose of gun control laws should be to reduce gun violence, not to eliminate it. In this country, it's just not possible to eliminate all gun violence.

What gun control laws can do is reduce the number of guns and make it more difficult to obtain guns so they are less available to the mentally ill, and people in fits of angry which accounts for most of the deaths from firearms. Also, reduction in the number of guns and their killing capacity will help level the playing field for police. The only reason that civilians need to arm themselves for protection is that police are not able to protect them. Stronger gun control laws will help police protect the public.

There is no perfect solution but less guns in the hands of the public will meant less deaths from guns.

Way to backtrack...but you are still ignoring the FACT that your gun laws haven't even managed to reduce anything...but the liberties of law abiding citizens. Less guns in the hands of the public does not mean less deaths from guns. In my county, everybody is armed...yet gun crime is low to nill...in the county to the north, the rate of gun ownership is lower...but gun crime is rampant. I don't claim that more guns mean less death anymore that I;d make the equally silly claim that less guns equals less death. The problem is far more complicated than that, and the gun is not in the top ten of relevant contributors to the problem.

Gun laws that make it harder for law abiding citizens to defend themselves and their families does not help police and they sure as hell don't help the public....the fact of the matter is that it puts both groups at greater risk. Why? BECAUSE CRIMINALS DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT LAWS AND THE ONLY WAY YOU WILL DISARM CRIMINALS WOULD BE TO DISARM THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF THE EARTH, GOVERNMENTS INCLUDED.

When you figure out how to disarm criminals and terrorists, let me know.

 

[CremeBrulee]

CCL?

Concealed Carry License?

CCLs require a deeper background check than a firearm does.

They wouldn't need a background check for a private sale in Illinois either.

No, the federal laws concerning firearms are the same in all 50 states (duh), and federal law makes it illegal for anyone but a licensed dealer to engage in interstate transfers (that means both sales, and transport) of firearms. If people are doing it, they are breaking the law, thus proving once again that gun laws do nothing to prevent criminals from breaking them. Fucking, duh.

You guys are concentrating on the steak and not the peas. The point is Chicago has and will continue to have a high rate of gun violence, in spite of their ban, because of the availability of most any type of weapon in the surrounding communities. Yes. Gun running is illegal; the penalties laughable, in respect to the carnage it creates. It would also seem that current gun laws are a joke as well. Granted some guns will inevitably slip through into the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. But the ease at which these people can obtain firearms is astonishing. I can fill the trunk of a car with guns and ammunition from a show. Until I cross the border, I have yet to commit a crime nor had any sort of background check performed. By then it's probably too late for law enforcement.

Only by buying them illegally, or did you miss that point?

You cannot, under Federal Law, buy a handgun in a state other than your state of residence, without arranging for shipment TO a licensed dealer, in your state of residence.

None of them were bought illegally. It would be near impossible to determine intent.

Please read carefully. It is illegal under federal law for anyone but a licensed dealer to do interstate transfers of firearms.

Illinois resident buys gun in Indiana - illegal
Indiana resident sells gun to Illinois resident - illegal
Indiana resident buys gun in Indiana and transports it to Illinois - illegal

Yet you insist this is happening...and I don't doubt it. The point is that it is ALREADY ILLEGAL, proving that laws don't stop criminals and more laws...doing the same thing...doesn't achieve a different result.

You apparently are misunderstanding me. You can buy a truck load of guns without a background check. Unless the seller has a magic wand revealing my intent there is nothing stopping me from selling said guns across the street in a gun free zone. It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border, which in this case is hardly identifiable because of the proximity. It says you live in Ohio. Don't you think it would be a joke if Harrison was a gun free town given the ease at which a firearm could be purchased in West Harrison? Or Texarcana for all those Texans.

 

[Auld Phart]

CCL?

Concealed Carry License?

CCLs require a deeper background check than a firearm does.

They wouldn't need a background check for a private sale in Illinois either.

No, the federal laws concerning firearms are the same in all 50 states (duh), and federal law makes it illegal for anyone but a licensed dealer to engage in interstate transfers (that means both sales, and transport) of firearms. If people are doing it, they are breaking the law, thus proving once again that gun laws do nothing to prevent criminals from breaking them. Fucking, duh.

You guys are concentrating on the steak and not the peas. The point is Chicago has and will continue to have a high rate of gun violence, in spite of their ban, because of the availability of most any type of weapon in the surrounding communities. Yes. Gun running is illegal; the penalties laughable, in respect to the carnage it creates. It would also seem that current gun laws are a joke as well. Granted some guns will inevitably slip through into the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. But the ease at which these people can obtain firearms is astonishing. I can fill the trunk of a car with guns and ammunition from a show. Until I cross the border, I have yet to commit a crime nor had any sort of background check performed. By then it's probably too late for law enforcement.

Only by buying them illegally, or did you miss that point?

You cannot, under Federal Law, buy a handgun in a state other than your state of residence, without arranging for shipment TO a licensed dealer, in your state of residence.

None of them were bought illegally. It would be near impossible to determine intent.

Please read carefully. It is illegal under federal law for anyone but a licensed dealer to do interstate transfers of firearms.

Illinois resident buys gun in Indiana - illegal
Indiana resident sells gun to Illinois resident - illegal
Indiana resident buys gun in Indiana and transports it to Illinois - illegal

Yet you insist this is happening...and I don't doubt it. The point is that it is ALREADY ILLEGAL, proving that laws don't stop criminals and more laws...doing the same thing...doesn't achieve a different result.

You apparently are misunderstanding me. You can buy a truck load of guns without a background check. Unless the seller has a magic wand revealing my intent there is nothing stopping me from selling said guns across the street in a gun free zone. It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border, which in this case is hardly identifiable because of the proximity. It says you live in Ohio. Don't you think it would be a joke if Harrison was a gun free town given the ease at which a firearm could be purchased in West Harrison? Or Texarcana for all those Texans.

It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border

It's illegal as soon as he buys the gun if he is not a resident of the state

Both the buyer and the seller are committing a crime.

a FEDERAL crime.

what about that do you NOT UNDERSTAND?

 

[Dan Daly]

CCL?

Concealed Carry License?

CCLs require a deeper background check than a firearm does.

They wouldn't need a background check for a private sale in Illinois either.

No, the federal laws concerning firearms are the same in all 50 states (duh), and federal law makes it illegal for anyone but a licensed dealer to engage in interstate transfers (that means both sales, and transport) of firearms. If people are doing it, they are breaking the law, thus proving once again that gun laws do nothing to prevent criminals from breaking them. Fucking, duh.

You guys are concentrating on the steak and not the peas. The point is Chicago has and will continue to have a high rate of gun violence, in spite of their ban, because of the availability of most any type of weapon in the surrounding communities. Yes. Gun running is illegal; the penalties laughable, in respect to the carnage it creates. It would also seem that current gun laws are a joke as well. Granted some guns will inevitably slip through into the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. But the ease at which these people can obtain firearms is astonishing. I can fill the trunk of a car with guns and ammunition from a show. Until I cross the border, I have yet to commit a crime nor had any sort of background check performed. By then it's probably too late for law enforcement.

Only by buying them illegally, or did you miss that point?

You cannot, under Federal Law, buy a handgun in a state other than your state of residence, without arranging for shipment TO a licensed dealer, in your state of residence.

None of them were bought illegally. It would be near impossible to determine intent.

Please read carefully. It is illegal under federal law for anyone but a licensed dealer to do interstate transfers of firearms.

Illinois resident buys gun in Indiana - illegal
Indiana resident sells gun to Illinois resident - illegal
Indiana resident buys gun in Indiana and transports it to Illinois - illegal

Yet you insist this is happening...and I don't doubt it. The point is that it is ALREADY ILLEGAL, proving that laws don't stop criminals and more laws...doing the same thing...doesn't achieve a different result.

You apparently are misunderstanding me. You can buy a truck load of guns without a background check. Unless the seller has a magic wand revealing my intent there is nothing stopping me from selling said guns across the street in a gun free zone. It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border, which in this case is hardly identifiable because of the proximity. It says you live in Ohio. Don't you think it would be a joke if Harrison was a gun free town given the ease at which a firearm could be purchased in West Harrison? Or Texarcana for all those Texans.

AGAIN. If you are not a resident of Indiana, you cannot legally take possession of firearms in Indiana. You cannot transport firearms over state lines no matter what state you reside in,. The only thing stopping you is the law...which you are proving doesn't stop you and is thus ineffective.

I think "gun free towns" are a joke...they simply don't exist. And if one actually does, I am sure the thugs in the area love the free reign they have to do what they please.

 

[CremeBrulee]

You guys are concentrating on the steak and not the peas. The point is Chicago has and will continue to have a high rate of gun violence, in spite of their ban, because of the availability of most any type of weapon in the surrounding communities. Yes. Gun running is illegal; the penalties laughable, in respect to the carnage it creates. It would also seem that current gun laws are a joke as well. Granted some guns will inevitably slip through into the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. But the ease at which these people can obtain firearms is astonishing. I can fill the trunk of a car with guns and ammunition from a show. Until I cross the border, I have yet to commit a crime nor had any sort of background check performed. By then it's probably too late for law enforcement.

Only by buying them illegally, or did you miss that point?

You cannot, under Federal Law, buy a handgun in a state other than your state of residence, without arranging for shipment TO a licensed dealer, in your state of residence.

None of them were bought illegally. It would be near impossible to determine intent.

Please read carefully. It is illegal under federal law for anyone but a licensed dealer to do interstate transfers of firearms.

Illinois resident buys gun in Indiana - illegal
Indiana resident sells gun to Illinois resident - illegal
Indiana resident buys gun in Indiana and transports it to Illinois - illegal

Yet you insist this is happening...and I don't doubt it. The point is that it is ALREADY ILLEGAL, proving that laws don't stop criminals and more laws...doing the same thing...doesn't achieve a different result.

You apparently are misunderstanding me. You can buy a truck load of guns without a background check. Unless the seller has a magic wand revealing my intent there is nothing stopping me from selling said guns across the street in a gun free zone. It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border, which in this case is hardly identifiable because of the proximity. It says you live in Ohio. Don't you think it would be a joke if Harrison was a gun free town given the ease at which a firearm could be purchased in West Harrison? Or Texarcana for all those Texans.

It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border

It's illegal as soon as he buys the gun if he is not a resident of the state

Both the buyer and the seller are committing a crime.

a FEDERAL crime.

what about that do you NOT UNDERSTAND?

Only until an Indiana resident crosses the border with Illinois. Until then no crime or background check has occurred. By that time it's too late.

 

[Dan Daly]

Only by buying them illegally, or did you miss that point?

You cannot, under Federal Law, buy a handgun in a state other than your state of residence, without arranging for shipment TO a licensed dealer, in your state of residence.

None of them were bought illegally. It would be near impossible to determine intent.

Please read carefully. It is illegal under federal law for anyone but a licensed dealer to do interstate transfers of firearms.

Illinois resident buys gun in Indiana - illegal
Indiana resident sells gun to Illinois resident - illegal
Indiana resident buys gun in Indiana and transports it to Illinois - illegal

Yet you insist this is happening...and I don't doubt it. The point is that it is ALREADY ILLEGAL, proving that laws don't stop criminals and more laws...doing the same thing...doesn't achieve a different result.

You apparently are misunderstanding me. You can buy a truck load of guns without a background check. Unless the seller has a magic wand revealing my intent there is nothing stopping me from selling said guns across the street in a gun free zone. It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border, which in this case is hardly identifiable because of the proximity. It says you live in Ohio. Don't you think it would be a joke if Harrison was a gun free town given the ease at which a firearm could be purchased in West Harrison? Or Texarcana for all those Texans.

It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border

It's illegal as soon as he buys the gun if he is not a resident of the state

Both the buyer and the seller are committing a crime.

a FEDERAL crime.

what about that do you NOT UNDERSTAND?

Only until an Indiana resident crosses the border with Illinois. Until then no crime or background check has occurred.

Ok...so they are not breaking the law till they break the law...is there a point you are trying to make there somewhere?

Bottom line, once the border is crossed the law is broken. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

 

[Auld Phart]

Only by buying them illegally, or did you miss that point?

You cannot, under Federal Law, buy a handgun in a state other than your state of residence, without arranging for shipment TO a licensed dealer, in your state of residence.

None of them were bought illegally. It would be near impossible to determine intent.

Please read carefully. It is illegal under federal law for anyone but a licensed dealer to do interstate transfers of firearms.

Illinois resident buys gun in Indiana - illegal
Indiana resident sells gun to Illinois resident - illegal
Indiana resident buys gun in Indiana and transports it to Illinois - illegal

Yet you insist this is happening...and I don't doubt it. The point is that it is ALREADY ILLEGAL, proving that laws don't stop criminals and more laws...doing the same thing...doesn't achieve a different result.

You apparently are misunderstanding me. You can buy a truck load of guns without a background check. Unless the seller has a magic wand revealing my intent there is nothing stopping me from selling said guns across the street in a gun free zone. It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border, which in this case is hardly identifiable because of the proximity. It says you live in Ohio. Don't you think it would be a joke if Harrison was a gun free town given the ease at which a firearm could be purchased in West Harrison? Or Texarcana for all those Texans.

It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border

It's illegal as soon as he buys the gun if he is not a resident of the state

Both the buyer and the seller are committing a crime.

a FEDERAL crime.

what about that do you NOT UNDERSTAND?

Only until an Indiana resident crosses the border with Illinois. Until then no crime or background check has occurred. By that time it's too late.

Only until an Indiana resident crosses the border with Illinois.

When did you change direction?

The conversation has been about someone from Illinois going to Indiana and buying guns.

Now it's someone from Indiana going to Illinois and selling guns?

 

[Dan Daly]

None of them were bought illegally. It would be near impossible to determine intent.

Please read carefully. It is illegal under federal law for anyone but a licensed dealer to do interstate transfers of firearms.

Illinois resident buys gun in Indiana - illegal
Indiana resident sells gun to Illinois resident - illegal
Indiana resident buys gun in Indiana and transports it to Illinois - illegal

Yet you insist this is happening...and I don't doubt it. The point is that it is ALREADY ILLEGAL, proving that laws don't stop criminals and more laws...doing the same thing...doesn't achieve a different result.

You apparently are misunderstanding me. You can buy a truck load of guns without a background check. Unless the seller has a magic wand revealing my intent there is nothing stopping me from selling said guns across the street in a gun free zone. It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border, which in this case is hardly identifiable because of the proximity. It says you live in Ohio. Don't you think it would be a joke if Harrison was a gun free town given the ease at which a firearm could be purchased in West Harrison? Or Texarcana for all those Texans.

It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border

It's illegal as soon as he buys the gun if he is not a resident of the state

Both the buyer and the seller are committing a crime.

a FEDERAL crime.

what about that do you NOT UNDERSTAND?

Only until an Indiana resident crosses the border with Illinois. Until then no crime or background check has occurred. By that time it's too late.

Only until an Indiana resident crosses the border with Illinois.

When did you change direction?

The conversation has been about someone from Illinois going to Indiana and buying guns.

Now it's someone from Indiana going to Illinois and selling guns?

when you have no leg to stand on, you move goalposts.

 

[CremeBrulee]

None of them were bought illegally. It would be near impossible to determine intent.

Please read carefully. It is illegal under federal law for anyone but a licensed dealer to do interstate transfers of firearms.

Illinois resident buys gun in Indiana - illegal
Indiana resident sells gun to Illinois resident - illegal
Indiana resident buys gun in Indiana and transports it to Illinois - illegal

Yet you insist this is happening...and I don't doubt it. The point is that it is ALREADY ILLEGAL, proving that laws don't stop criminals and more laws...doing the same thing...doesn't achieve a different result.

You apparently are misunderstanding me. You can buy a truck load of guns without a background check. Unless the seller has a magic wand revealing my intent there is nothing stopping me from selling said guns across the street in a gun free zone. It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border, which in this case is hardly identifiable because of the proximity. It says you live in Ohio. Don't you think it would be a joke if Harrison was a gun free town given the ease at which a firearm could be purchased in West Harrison? Or Texarcana for all those Texans.

It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border

It's illegal as soon as he buys the gun if he is not a resident of the state

Both the buyer and the seller are committing a crime.

a FEDERAL crime.

what about that do you NOT UNDERSTAND?

Only until an Indiana resident crosses the border with Illinois. Until then no crime or background check has occurred.

Ok...so they are not breaking the law till they break the law...is there a point you are trying to make there somewhere?

Bottom line, once the border is crossed the law is broken. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

I made it way back in the beginning. It got lost in the assumptions. It's more effective to stop it at the source then it is at the border. But this isn't monopoly, gun runners and strawmen don't get transported to jail with a simple hand movement the moment they break the law.

 

[Wildman]

God forbid we have gun registration !

just exactly what crime committed with a gun is that going to solve?

that libertard in Oregon should have been locked up months ago, when are you fucking liberfools going get it thru your thick skulls full of shit, it is NOT tjhe gun it is the foul piece of dog shit pulling the trigger. ...you stupid ...

 

[Auld Phart]

No longer worth discussing.

You get your 'facts' from blogs, and opinions of others instead of researching actual facts.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about, so there is no sense continuing this discussion.

 

[Dan Daly]

Please read carefully. It is illegal under federal law for anyone but a licensed dealer to do interstate transfers of firearms.

Illinois resident buys gun in Indiana - illegal
Indiana resident sells gun to Illinois resident - illegal
Indiana resident buys gun in Indiana and transports it to Illinois - illegal

Yet you insist this is happening...and I don't doubt it. The point is that it is ALREADY ILLEGAL, proving that laws don't stop criminals and more laws...doing the same thing...doesn't achieve a different result.

You apparently are misunderstanding me. You can buy a truck load of guns without a background check. Unless the seller has a magic wand revealing my intent there is nothing stopping me from selling said guns across the street in a gun free zone. It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border, which in this case is hardly identifiable because of the proximity. It says you live in Ohio. Don't you think it would be a joke if Harrison was a gun free town given the ease at which a firearm could be purchased in West Harrison? Or Texarcana for all those Texans.

It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border

It's illegal as soon as he buys the gun if he is not a resident of the state

Both the buyer and the seller are committing a crime.

a FEDERAL crime.

what about that do you NOT UNDERSTAND?

Only until an Indiana resident crosses the border with Illinois. Until then no crime or background check has occurred.

Ok...so they are not breaking the law till they break the law...is there a point you are trying to make there somewhere?

Bottom line, once the border is crossed the law is broken. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

I made it way back in the beginning. It got lost in the assumptions. It's more effective to stop it at the source then it is at the border. But this isn't monopoly, gun runners and strawmen don't get transported to jail with a simple hand movement the moment they break the law.

You're going off the reservation, son. You are not going to stop it as long as there is money in it. Have you learned nothing from the drug war, or prohibition?

 

[Flopper]

There's a black market because of crappy gun nut states make it so easy . Other first world countries don't have the same issues we do.

And Arron Burr shot Hamilton back in the day . Gun violence isn't new .

More BS. It's illegal to transfer guns over state lines unless it is being transferred between licensed dealers. Another case where the law obviously doesn't stop criminals, only us law-abiding folk are affected.

Other countries have even worse issues that we do, not the least of which is the fact that they don't enjoy the same freedoms that we have...freedoms that ninnies like you would gladly give away for a little false security.

Uh, Burr and Hamilton had this thing called a duel...which you should probably be glad we don't still do today.

Gun laws are weak and ineffective because they are designed to be. The gun lobby makes sure of that. Our gun laws have no chance of really reducing the killing. They are like taking an aspirin to cure cancer.

More bullshit. Gun laws are weak and ineffective because CRIMINALS DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT LAWS. Such a simple truth, yet allegedly intelligent people can't seem to grasp it.

Some criminals will always be able to acquire firearms. The question is how easy do we want to make that acquisition . Drug smugglers, Gun runners, terrorists, other professional criminals will always have access to guns but these are not the criminals that the general public is likely to encounter. Drug addicts robbing businesses, gang violence, housebreakers, burglars, perpetrators of domestic violence, suicide victims, and the mentally ill are major cause of gun violence. These people are very dependent on easy access to guns. Gun laws can reduce their access to guns and to gun violence.

 

[CremeBrulee]

None of them were bought illegally. It would be near impossible to determine intent.

Please read carefully. It is illegal under federal law for anyone but a licensed dealer to do interstate transfers of firearms.

Illinois resident buys gun in Indiana - illegal
Indiana resident sells gun to Illinois resident - illegal
Indiana resident buys gun in Indiana and transports it to Illinois - illegal

Yet you insist this is happening...and I don't doubt it. The point is that it is ALREADY ILLEGAL, proving that laws don't stop criminals and more laws...doing the same thing...doesn't achieve a different result.

You apparently are misunderstanding me. You can buy a truck load of guns without a background check. Unless the seller has a magic wand revealing my intent there is nothing stopping me from selling said guns across the street in a gun free zone. It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border, which in this case is hardly identifiable because of the proximity. It says you live in Ohio. Don't you think it would be a joke if Harrison was a gun free town given the ease at which a firearm could be purchased in West Harrison? Or Texarcana for all those Texans.

It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border

It's illegal as soon as he buys the gun if he is not a resident of the state

Both the buyer and the seller are committing a crime.

a FEDERAL crime.

what about that do you NOT UNDERSTAND?

Only until an Indiana resident crosses the border with Illinois. Until then no crime or background check has occurred. By that time it's too late.

Only until an Indiana resident crosses the border with Illinois.

When did you change direction?

The conversation has been about someone from Illinois going to Indiana and buying guns.

Now it's someone from Indiana going to Illinois and selling guns?

Maybe I shouldn't have said "cross over" but the premise still holds. Hard to tell where Chicago stops and Indiana starts.

I guess you didn't see the edit my bad. I have been talking about the availability of firearms in the surrounding communities making Chicago's gun ban ineffectual. I guess I wrongly assumed you wouldn't be so literal about the example. I didn't think I would actually have to write out every scenario in which residents can obtain firearms from neighboring communities.

 

[Ernie S.]

CCL?

Concealed Carry License?

CCLs require a deeper background check than a firearm does.

They wouldn't need a background check for a private sale in Illinois either.

No, the federal laws concerning firearms are the same in all 50 states (duh), and federal law makes it illegal for anyone but a licensed dealer to engage in interstate transfers (that means both sales, and transport) of firearms. If people are doing it, they are breaking the law, thus proving once again that gun laws do nothing to prevent criminals from breaking them. Fucking, duh.

You guys are concentrating on the steak and not the peas. The point is Chicago has and will continue to have a high rate of gun violence, in spite of their ban, because of the availability of most any type of weapon in the surrounding communities. Yes. Gun running is illegal; the penalties laughable, in respect to the carnage it creates. It would also seem that current gun laws are a joke as well. Granted some guns will inevitably slip through into the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. But the ease at which these people can obtain firearms is astonishing. I can fill the trunk of a car with guns and ammunition from a show. Until I cross the border, I have yet to commit a crime nor had any sort of background check performed. By then it's probably too late for law enforcement.

You guys are concentrating on the steak and not the peas. The point is Chicago has and will continue to have a high rate of gun violence, in spite of their ban, because of the availability of most any type of weapon in the surrounding communities.

NO, idiot
Chicago will continue to have more gun violence because of the people who LIVE there.
Integrity and morality have nothing to do with the availability of guns.

Blaming murder on guns is like blaming houses on hammers.

 

[CremeBrulee]

You apparently are misunderstanding me. You can buy a truck load of guns without a background check. Unless the seller has a magic wand revealing my intent there is nothing stopping me from selling said guns across the street in a gun free zone. It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border, which in this case is hardly identifiable because of the proximity. It says you live in Ohio. Don't you think it would be a joke if Harrison was a gun free town given the ease at which a firearm could be purchased in West Harrison? Or Texarcana for all those Texans.

It doesn't become illegal until a person crosses the border

It's illegal as soon as he buys the gun if he is not a resident of the state

Both the buyer and the seller are committing a crime.

a FEDERAL crime.

what about that do you NOT UNDERSTAND?

Only until an Indiana resident crosses the border with Illinois. Until then no crime or background check has occurred.

Ok...so they are not breaking the law till they break the law...is there a point you are trying to make there somewhere?

Bottom line, once the border is crossed the law is broken. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

I made it way back in the beginning. It got lost in the assumptions. It's more effective to stop it at the source then it is at the border. But this isn't monopoly, gun runners and strawmen don't get transported to jail with a simple hand movement the moment they break the law.

The drug war is a good example. What is more effective, stopping drugs at the border or at their source?

 

[CremeBrulee]

The drug war is a good example. What is more effective, stopping drugs at the border or at their source?

lol srry about that

 

[Dan Daly]

There's a black market because of crappy gun nut states make it so easy . Other first world countries don't have the same issues we do.

And Arron Burr shot Hamilton back in the day . Gun violence isn't new .

More BS. It's illegal to transfer guns over state lines unless it is being transferred between licensed dealers. Another case where the law obviously doesn't stop criminals, only us law-abiding folk are affected.

Other countries have even worse issues that we do, not the least of which is the fact that they don't enjoy the same freedoms that we have...freedoms that ninnies like you would gladly give away for a little false security.

Uh, Burr and Hamilton had this thing called a duel...which you should probably be glad we don't still do today.

Gun laws are weak and ineffective because they are designed to be. The gun lobby makes sure of that. Our gun laws have no chance of really reducing the killing. They are like taking an aspirin to cure cancer.

More bullshit. Gun laws are weak and ineffective because CRIMINALS DON'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT LAWS. Such a simple truth, yet allegedly intelligent people can't seem to grasp it.

Some criminals will always be able to acquire firearms. The question is how easy do we want to make that acquisition . Drug smugglers, Gun runners, terrorists, other professional criminals will always have access to guns but these are not the criminals that the general public is likely to encounter. Drug addicts robbing businesses, gang violence, housebreakers, burglars, perpetrators of domestic violence, suicide victims, and the mentally ill are major cause of gun violence. These people are very dependent on easy access to guns. Gun laws can reduce their access to guns and to gun violence.

The more laws you pass, the the more you arm government, the easier it is for criminals to obtain firearms. The other simple truth you don't seem to grasp is that laws and regulation breed black markets that governments cannot control. Have you not learned anything from the drug war or prohibition either?