Now Can You Imagine If That School Shooting Took Place In Chicago?

[Ernie S.]

CCL?

Concealed Carry License?

CCLs require a deeper background check than a firearm does.

They wouldn't need a background check for a private sale in Illinois either.

No, the federal laws concerning firearms are the same in all 50 states (duh), and federal law makes it illegal for anyone but a licensed dealer to engage in interstate transfers (that means both sales, and transport) of firearms. If people are doing it, they are breaking the law, thus proving once again that gun laws do nothing to prevent criminals from breaking them. Fucking, duh.

You guys are concentrating on the steak and not the peas. The point is Chicago has and will continue to have a high rate of gun violence, in spite of their ban, because of the availability of most any type of weapon in the surrounding communities. Yes. Gun running is illegal; the penalties laughable, in respect to the carnage it creates. It would also seem that current gun laws are a joke as well. Granted some guns will inevitably slip through into the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. But the ease at which these people can obtain firearms is astonishing. I can fill the trunk of a car with guns and ammunition from a show. Until I cross the border, I have yet to commit a crime nor had any sort of background check performed. By then it's probably too late for law enforcement.

Details count. First the excuse is Indiana, now it's surrounding communities. Sorry, but neither excuse holds water. I can buy a gun off the street in Chicago much easier than I can buy a gun in the surrounding communities. It's illegal for me to do so in either case...once again proving the basic truth you continue to wish away - laws have no impact on the actions of criminals. That's the meat and the peas, son.

FYI if you purchase a firearm in a state other than yours, you have broken federal law, period. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, Why? Because only licensed dealers can do interstate transfers. If the Indiana dealer sells you a firearm, you have both broken the law. If you lie on the 4473 and claim you live in Indiana, you have broken the law.

Actually, you cannot have a gun shipped directly to you from another state, but some states such as Oregon, do allow you to purchase a gun in a bordering state and legally transport it to your home.

Laws on Purchase, Possession and Carrying of Firearms

NRA-ILA | Oregon State Profile
Purchase
A resident of this state may purchase or otherwise obtain a rifle or shotgun in a contiguous state (California, Idaho, Nevada or Washington) and receive in this state or transport into this state such rifle or shotgun, unless the purchase or transfer violates the law of this state, the state in which the purchase or transfer is made or the United States.

 

[Dan Daly]

The drug war is a good example. What is more effective, stopping drugs at the border or at their source?

lol srry about that

Yes, the drug war is a great example...they have failed at the border, at the source, within the borders, in a bush, in a bike, or with some ham, they have failed miserably Dolts they am.

 

[Ernie S.]

I love it when the people screaming for more laws prove how ineffective laws are in preventing crime in their own words.

Where did I say that?

CCLs have to go through a background check more stringent than gun purchasers. Like I said before, if you want to debate gun laws, you should really KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Fingerprints are really "stringent." Apparently you Dan have the same problem with reading comprehension.

Connecticut, where I got my first CCP, requires finger prints, a training course, references and the signature of the chief LEO of your town or city. You then eventually get a town permit if the chief feels like it. In 6 months you can apply for a state wide permit. Your state permit takes about 7 months.
In Alabama, the process takes 5 minutes. You fill out an application and the clerk (County Sheriff civilian worker) runs your info through State and Federal data bases, tells you to stand in front of a camera and smile. 60 seconds and $30 later she hands you a permit. BUT, in reality, you do not need a permit to carry here. Open carry is a right recognized state wide.

 

[Dan Daly]

Open carry is a right recognized state wide.

It was the same in New Mexico, in Arizona and even here in Ohio. But of course, Ohio being the commie state that it is, effectively gutted open carry by considering a handgun in a motor vehicle a concealed weapon, unlike New Mexico, Alabama, Arizona and others. It's a real pain, but oh well, not insurrmountable.

 

[CremeBrulee]

I love it when the people screaming for more laws prove how ineffective laws are in preventing crime in their own words.

Where did I say that?

CCLs have to go through a background check more stringent than gun purchasers. Like I said before, if you want to debate gun laws, you should really KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Fingerprints are really "stringent." Apparently you Dan have the same problem with reading comprehension.

Connecticut, where I got my first CCP, requires finger prints, a training course, references and the signature of the chief LEO of your town or city. You then eventually get a town permit if the chief feels like it. In 6 months you can apply for a state wide permit. Your state permit takes about 7 months.
In Alabama, the process takes 5 minutes. You fill out an application and the clerk (County Sheriff civilian worker) runs your info through State and Federal data bases, tells you to stand in front of a camera and smile. 60 seconds and $30 later she hands you a permit. BUT, in reality, you do not need a permit to carry here. Open carry is a right recognized state wide.

That's a lot more stringent than it is here in Indiana. It's basically application/fingerprints/background check. As long as you have no criminal record you can CC. Open carry is the same.

 

[The Professor]

God forbid we have gun registration ! Oh the horror !!

Would gun registration have prevented the tragedy in Oregon?
Their new law mandating background checks for all (even private) sale or transfer of weapons has done the trick, hasn't it?

I don't know the details on Oregon guy.

A major issue wh shootings is guns falling into the wrong hands because of straw purchases . If we treated them like cars we could follow the line . People wouldn't hand guns to criminals cause they would be on the hook . And good people can still have their guns wh no problem .

What part of "Shall not be infringed" are you having trouble grasping?

What part of "well regulated militia " are u having trouble with?

According to the United States Supreme Court (SCOTUS) the right to keep and bear arms is a personal right and has nothing to do with the militia!! The following are the relevant portions of the SCOTUS decision in DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA et al. v. HELLER (Decided June 26, 2008):

Held:

1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.

(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22.

(b) The prefatory clause comports with the Court’s interpretation of the operative clause. The “militia” comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved. Pp. 22–28.

(c) The Court’s interpretation is confirmed by analogous arms-bearing rights in state constitutions that preceded and immediately followed the Second Amendment. Pp. 28–30.

(d) The Second Amendment’s drafting history, while of dubious interpretive worth, reveals three state Second Amendment proposals that unequivocally referred to an individual right to bear arms. Pp. 30–32.

(e) Interpretation of the Second Amendment by scholars, courts and legislators, from immediately after its ratification through the late 19th century also supports the Court’s conclusion. Pp. 32–47.

(f) None of the Court’s precedents forecloses the Court’s interpretation. Neither United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. 542, 553, nor Presser v. Illinois, 116 U. S. 252, 264–265, refutes the individual-rights interpretation. United States v. Miller, 307 U. S. 174, does not limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes, but rather limits the type of weapon to which the right applies to those used by the militia, i.e., those in common use for lawful purposes. Pp. 47–54.

2. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. Pp.54–56.

District of Columbia v. Heller 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

Conclusion: The right to keep and bear arms is a personal right completely unrelated to membership in a militia. However the right is not absolute and may be subject to reasonable restrictions. What constitutes a reasonable restriction is a matter for the courts to decide.

 

[Ernie S.]

Open carry is a right recognized state wide.

It was the same in New Mexico, in Arizona and even here in Ohio. But of course, Ohio being the commie state that it is, effectively gutted open carry by considering a handgun in a motor vehicle a concealed weapon, unlike New Mexico, Alabama, Arizona and others. It's a real pain, but oh well, not insurrmountable.

In Alabama, you must have a permit to carry a loaded weapon in a car,

 

[hazlnut]

Lets say some 25 year old black kid had reached the end of the tunnel, no hope for any future, been in trouble with the law, can't even find a job at McDonalds. And then the day comes when he finally loses it and takes out a classroom of about 20/25 students. A Total Bloody Chicago Massacre. Do you think Obama would come out that same night to offer his sorrow and condolences? And would he also bring up the overwhelming gun/murder crisis in Chicago? Or would he just not bring it to the nations attention like he did with that young white girl in San Fransisco.

Thank you for the bigots view of the world.

Sick and twist, angry and impotent. Just as we thought.

 

[Rexx Taylor]

and why does it seem that the worst school shootings occur in "Democrat Run States"? has anything like this ever happened in Texas?

 

[Ernie S.]

Lets say some 25 year old black kid had reached the end of the tunnel, no hope for any future, been in trouble with the law, can't even find a job at McDonalds. And then the day comes when he finally loses it and takes out a classroom of about 20/25 students. A Total Bloody Chicago Massacre. Do you think Obama would come out that same night to offer his sorrow and condolences? And would he also bring up the overwhelming gun/murder crisis in Chicago? Or would he just not bring it to the nations attention like he did with that young white girl in San Fransisco.

Thank you for the bigots view of the world.

Sick and twist, angry and impotent. Just as we thought.

It's a dispassionate, realistic view.

Do you want to know how to reduce gun violence in Chicago by 75% by the first of the year? I can tell you, if you really want to know.

 

[bodecea]

Lets say some 25 year old black kid had reached the end of the tunnel, no hope for any future, been in trouble with the law, can't even find a job at McDonalds. And then the day comes when he finally loses it and takes out a classroom of about 20/25 students. A Total Bloody Chicago Massacre. Do you think Obama would come out that same night to offer his sorrow and condolences? And would he also bring up the overwhelming gun/murder crisis in Chicago? Or would he just not bring it to the nations attention like he did with that young white girl in San Fransisco.

I do.

 

[TooTall]

Lets say some 25 year old black kid had reached the end of the tunnel, no hope for any future, been in trouble with the law, can't even find a job at McDonalds. And then the day comes when he finally loses it and takes out a classroom of about 20/25 students. A Total Bloody Chicago Massacre. Do you think Obama would come out that same night to offer his sorrow and condolences? And would he also bring up the overwhelming gun/murder crisis in Chicago? Or would he just not bring it to the nations attention like he did with that young white girl in San Fransisco.

Obama would get around to blaming on the cuts the Republican Congress made in the budget.

 

[TooTall]

God forbid we have gun registration ! Oh the horror !!

Would gun registration have prevented the tragedy in Oregon?
Their new law mandating background checks for all (even private) sale or transfer of weapons has done the trick, hasn't it?

Considering the number of firearms in the US and amount gun violence, I doubt it would make much difference. Registration is a drop in bucket. I think what would make a difference is gun laws similar to the ones passed in Australia.

In 1996, Australia banned semiautomatic and automatic rifles and shotguns. It also instituted a mandatory buy-back program for newly banned weapons. Firearm homicide rates fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent, in the decade after the law was introduced, without a parallel increase in non-firearm homicides and suicides.

Did gun control work in Australia?

When was a mass murder committed in the US using an automatic weapon or a so-called assault weapon?

 

[Ernie S.]

God forbid we have gun registration ! Oh the horror !!

Would gun registration have prevented the tragedy in Oregon?
Their new law mandating background checks for all (even private) sale or transfer of weapons has done the trick, hasn't it?

Considering the number of firearms in the US and amount gun violence, I doubt it would make much difference. Registration is a drop in bucket. I think what would make a difference is gun laws similar to the ones passed in Australia.

In 1996, Australia banned semiautomatic and automatic rifles and shotguns. It also instituted a mandatory buy-back program for newly banned weapons. Firearm homicide rates fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent, in the decade after the law was introduced, without a parallel increase in non-firearm homicides and suicides.

Did gun control work in Australia?

Well then guy.... Call your Congressman and your Senators and ask them to propose repealing the 2nd Amendment. Until that happens, there will be no further gun bans.

 

[Timmy]

God forbid we have gun registration ! Oh the horror !!

Would gun registration have prevented the tragedy in Oregon?
Their new law mandating background checks for all (even private) sale or transfer of weapons has done the trick, hasn't it?

Considering the number of firearms in the US and amount gun violence, I doubt it would make much difference. Registration is a drop in bucket. I think what would make a difference is gun laws similar to the ones passed in Australia.

In 1996, Australia banned semiautomatic and automatic rifles and shotguns. It also instituted a mandatory buy-back program for newly banned weapons. Firearm homicide rates fell by 59 percent, and the firearm suicide rate fell by 65 percent, in the decade after the law was introduced, without a parallel increase in non-firearm homicides and suicides.

Did gun control work in Australia?

Well then guy.... Call your Congressman and your Senators and ask them to propose repealing the 2nd Amendment. Until that happens, there will be no further gun bans.

Who said anything about banning guns ?! I said registration.

You righties ain't good at reading comprehension .

 

[Ernie S.]

Registration could be preparation for banning guns. Once you know where the guns are, it's pretty easy to go round them up.

 

[gallantwarrior]

He is proposing new gun legislation in the aftermath.

I suggest he attempt to make Chicago's gun laws universal. I mean, they are so incredibly effective.

and then what? we all arm ourselves with pop tarts and tuna cans?

Only if you don't chew your poptart into a gun-like shape.

i propose a national "Make A 44Mag Out Of Your Pop-Tarts" day.

Shit, when we were kids, we made guns, and bows and arrows, out of pretty much anything we could lay our hands on. Pop tarts hadn't even been invented back then. Funny thing, my generation hasn't been going out and killing people wholesale, have we? Maybe it has little to do with gun control and LOTS more to do with...well, there's definitely something happening that wasn't so common "back in the day".

 

[gallantwarrior]

There's a black market because of crappy gun nut states make it so easy . Other first world countries don't have the same issues we do.

And Arron Burr shot Hamilton back in the day . Gun violence isn't new .

Neither is stick violence, rock violence, knife/sword violence...and so on. Fact is, people will commit violence against others, regardless of the tools available to them. So, let's ban rocks, sticks, hammers, automobiles, swords, and all things that might harm others?

 

[Ernie S.]

He is proposing new gun legislation in the aftermath.

I suggest he attempt to make Chicago's gun laws universal. I mean, they are so incredibly effective.

and then what? we all arm ourselves with pop tarts and tuna cans?

Only if you don't chew your poptart into a gun-like shape.

i propose a national "Make A 44Mag Out Of Your Pop-Tarts" day.

Shit, when we were kids, we made guns, and bows and arrows, out of pretty much anything we could lay our hands on. Pop tarts hadn't even been invented back then. Funny thing, my generation hasn't been going out and killing people wholesale, have we? Maybe it has little to do with gun control and LOTS more to do with...well, there's definitely something happening that wasn't so common "back in the day".

Dr Spock fucked up an entire nation in 2 generations.

 

[gallantwarrior]

He is proposing new gun legislation in the aftermath.

I suggest he attempt to make Chicago's gun laws universal. I mean, they are so incredibly effective.

and then what? we all arm ourselves with pop tarts and tuna cans?

Only if you don't chew your poptart into a gun-like shape.

i propose a national "Make A 44Mag Out Of Your Pop-Tarts" day.

Shit, when we were kids, we made guns, and bows and arrows, out of pretty much anything we could lay our hands on. Pop tarts hadn't even been invented back then. Funny thing, my generation hasn't been going out and killing people wholesale, have we? Maybe it has little to do with gun control and LOTS more to do with...well, there's definitely something happening that wasn't so common "back in the day".

Dr Spock fucked up an entire nation in 2 generations.

Yeah, and my parents never read Dr. Spock...thank goodness! I got my ass kicked for doing wrong, was sent outside to play, and family night included poker, Monopoly, and building wood projects to sell. We did chores and did not receive an allowance, beat the hell out of each other and the neighbor kids when deemed warranted, and many other things that would be considered...well, non-PC nowadays.