emilynghiem
Constitutionalist / Universalist
Miracles have not been demonstrated to occur. The existence of a miracle would pose logical problems for belief in a god which can supposedly see the future and began the universe with a set of predefined laws. Even if a ‘miracle’ could be demonstrated it would not immediately imply the existence of a god, much less any particular one, as unknown natural processes or agents could still be at work.
Most alleged miracles can be explained as statistically unlikely occurrences. For example, one child surviving a plane crash that kills two hundred others is not a miracle, just as one person winning the lottery is not. In the absence of any empirical evidence, all other claims can be dismissed as the result of magical thinking, misattribution, credulity, hearsay and anecdote. Eye-witness testimony and anecdotal accounts are, by themselves, not reliable or definitive forms of proof for such extraordinary claims.
Divine intervention claims most often concern systems and events for which we have poor predictive capabilities, for example, weather, sports, health and social/economic interactions. Such claims are rarely made in relation to those things we can accurately predict and test e.g. the motion of celestial bodies, boiling point of water and pull of gravity. If a god is constantly intervening in the universe it supposedly created, then it is with such ambiguity as to appear completely indistinguishable from normal background chance.
Note: Theists often fail to adequately apportion blame when claims of their particular god’s ‘infinite mercy’ or ‘omnibenevolence’ involve sparing a few lives in a disaster, or recovery from a debilitating disease – all of which their god would ultimately be responsible for inflicting if it existed. See also: Euthyphro dilemma, Confirmation bias,Cherry Picking.
See also: Argument from Miracles, Why won’t god heal amputees? Spontaneous Remission of Disease, The problem with anecdotes (a must watch).
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” – Carl Sagan
“Elite athletes make first place, strange shapes appear on toast and some people narrowly escape death, but amputated limbs never regrow, mountains never move and food never spontaneously appears in front of the hundreds of children that starve to death each hour.” – Anonymous
Disagree sealybobo
1. First of all miracles do not need to contradict science.
Life can be considered a miracle we cannot fully explain. What drives life toward preserving more life?
We don't know. Thus it is a miracle that life begets life if we cannot explain this, yet it is consistent with science.
2. Secondly, if you want to call even "miraculous" changes that occurred NATURALLY
as demonstrations of how divine/life energy works,
there is PLENTY of proof that this has happened in many instances and forms.
Again, I have long pointed out the benefits of studying and proving how Spiritual Healing works.
There are plenty of cases of people who were "miraculously' cured of Rheumatoid Arthritis,
going from crippled and bedridden in pain, to walking normally with no more symptoms and without using any
medication. And cases of people cured of "incureable" Schizophrenia who restored their minds and free will,
and are no longer hijacked by demonic personalities and voices that took over their lives and held them hostage in their own bodies. Not to mention testimonies of people cured of deadly addictions almost instantly with no withdrawal symptoms,
or healed of terminal diseases where the doctors can't explain why they are in perfect health, or even people who were either dying or declared dead but recovered with no brain or organ damage.
The power of LIFE to heal NATURALLY is the same process and power as God represents.
So this has been demonstrated, and is still faith based at the same time.
It is miraculous in some cases, where it cannot be explained, yet consistent with science at the same time.
You keep framing things as either/or, but the truth can be "all of the above."
Both faith and reason are satisfied, and not sacrificed or compromised one for the other.
Both science and religion can describe the same process and be consistent with each other.
What is natural can be described as spiritual, what is spiritual can be explained in natural terms.
There does not have to be contradiction or conflicts we cannot solve.
The process in life is what it is, and we can use both science and religious terms to explain it.
And it is STILL the same process that all humans go through, it is universal for all humanity to grow to maturity,
but at the same time each person has their own version of this according to their circumstances, so it is unique too!
As soon as we can forgive our differences over these things,
we can better see how they fit together as complements and not be in conflict as we feared.
Thanks for sharing here and I look forward to finishing this journey together,
with each person contributing valuable insights that are all important to reach a mutual understanding of the whole.
Take care and Thank you!