NYT Bombshell: 'SIGNIFICANTLY MORE 9/11 NEGLIGENCE THAN HAS BEEN DISCLOSED'

[asterism]

None of Tenet's memoirs show that Clinton's people investigated the 9/11 terrorists taking flight lessons and that Bush treated it as "Clinton phobia."

Fail.

How could they, they were out of office. It was Bush's job to protect the country and he did nothing.

I bolded the text about the "Clinton phobia". You didn't catch that?

The 9/11 hijackers took flight classes during Clinton's administration, doofus.

You said Clinton's folks investigated them and I asked for proof of that. You didn't provide any.

FAIL

 

[Synthaholic]

 

[asterism]

The article speaks for itself. Bush was on vacation the entire month of August 2001, while "Tenet, Richard Clarke, and several other officials were running around with their 'hair on fire,' warning that al-Qaida was about to unleash a monumental attack." (from the above link)

What did Bush do? It appears that he did nothing. What could he have done? At the very least, he could have place all government agencies on full alert and warned airports.



From the above link.

the article is an opinion piece.

you are an idiot.

It is NOT an opinion piece. It is in the Op-Ed section because he's a Vanity Fair reporter, not a New York Times reporter. That's what the Op-Ed section is for, which is different from the Opinion section.

I should have been a teacher.

Op-Ed isn't Opinion?

op-ed (ˈɒpˌɛd)

— n
a. a page of a newspaper where varying opinions are expressed by columnists, commentators, etc
b. ( as modifier ): an op-ed column in the New York Times

Op-ed | Define Op-ed at Dictionary.com


Stick to music, dude.

 

[Lakhota]

None of Tenet's memoirs show that Clinton's people investigated the 9/11 terrorists taking flight lessons and that Bush treated it as "Clinton phobia."

Fail.

How could they, they were out of office. It was Bush's job to protect the country and he did nothing.

I bolded the text about the "Clinton phobia". You didn't catch that?

The 9/11 hijackers took flight classes during Clinton's administration, doofus.

You said Clinton's folks investigated them and I asked for proof of that. You didn't provide any.

FAIL

When was that known to the intelligence community and the Clinton Administration?

 

[Synthaholic]

Not knowing more than there was a threat, just what were they supposed to do short of profiling, Jillian?

If Bushies thought that engaging in unconstitutional acts and torture were warranted to protect the nation, why would something like profiling be a big deal to them?

Profiling does not rise to the level of 4th amendment violations or torture.

You would be first in line screaming your head off crying foul, Synth. Get real
After you there would have been the ACLU...but only after you.

So?

If Bush didn't care what people thought about him torturing, illegally wiretapping, running up huge deficits, lying about WMDs, and sending Americans to die based on lies, why would he give a shit about what someone thought of profiling?

This line of debate is beneath you. You know damn well that Bush wouldn't give a shit.

 

[asterism]

op-ed [ˈɒpˌɛd]
n
(Communication Arts / Journalism & Publishing)
a. a page of a newspaper where varying opinions are expressed by columnists, commentators, etc.
b. (as modifier) an op-ed column in the New York Times
[from op(posite) ed(itorial page)]

op-ed - definition of op-ed by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

op-ed
adjective /ˌɒpˈed//ˌɑːp-/ [before noun] US

Definition
describes a piece of writing which expresses a personal opinion and is usually printed in a newspaper opposite the page on which the editorial is printed

op-ed adjective - definition in British English Dictionary & Thesaurus - Cambridge Dictionary Online



No, you should not have been a teacher.

 

[asterism]

How could they, they were out of office. It was Bush's job to protect the country and he did nothing.

I bolded the text about the "Clinton phobia". You didn't catch that?

The 9/11 hijackers took flight classes during Clinton's administration, doofus.

You said Clinton's folks investigated them and I asked for proof of that. You didn't provide any.

FAIL

When was that known to the intelligence community and the Clinton Administration?

It wasn't that I know of. I brought up the timeline to refute Jillian and Loinboy:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...ce-than-has-been-disclosed-7.html#post5970531

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...s-been-disclosed-post5967527.html#post5967527

 

[Synthaholic]

Not knowing more than there was a threat, just what were they supposed to do short of profiling, Jillian?

If Bushies thought that engaging in unconstitutional acts and torture were warranted to protect the nation, why would something like profiling be a big deal to them?

Profiling does not rise to the level of 4th amendment violations or torture.

because he's talking about pre 9/11.

duh

Profiling arguments happened during the Clinton administration, with Republicans arguing for it. So what would have been the problem with Bush toeing the Party line?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

But some in the administration considered the warning to be just bluster. An intelligence official and a member of the Bush administration both told me in interviews that the neoconservative leaders who had recently assumed power at the Pentagon were warning the White House that the C.I.A. had been fooled; according to this theory, Bin Laden was merely pretending to be planning an attack to distract the administration from Saddam Hussein, whom the neoconservatives saw as a greater threat. Intelligence officials, these sources said, protested that the idea of Bin Laden, an Islamic fundamentalist, conspiring with Mr. Hussein, an Iraqi secularist, was ridiculous, but the neoconservatives’ suspicions were nevertheless carrying the day.

Lesson:

It will be these same neo-cons returned to foreign policy decision-making, including defending the country from terrorist attack, should Romney become president.

A Romney administration would not only return us to failed Bush Era economic policy, but failed Bush Era foreign policy as well.

 

[Lakhota]

But some in the administration considered the warning to be just bluster. An intelligence official and a member of the Bush administration both told me in interviews that the neoconservative leaders who had recently assumed power at the Pentagon were warning the White House that the C.I.A. had been fooled; according to this theory, Bin Laden was merely pretending to be planning an attack to distract the administration from Saddam Hussein, whom the neoconservatives saw as a greater threat. Intelligence officials, these sources said, protested that the idea of Bin Laden, an Islamic fundamentalist, conspiring with Mr. Hussein, an Iraqi secularist, was ridiculous, but the neoconservatives’ suspicions were nevertheless carrying the day.

Lesson:

It will be these same neo-cons returned to foreign policy decision-making, including defending the country from terrorist attack, should Romney become president.

A Romney administration would not only return us to failed Bush Era economic policy, but failed Bush Era foreign policy as well.

Amen!

 

[Synthaholic]

If Condi hadn't been an incompetent token, she would have warned airports to be on the look out for suspicious characters.

And then, perhaps this gate agent would have felt empowered to take his suspicions further:

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The 9/11 Commission would describe the dawning of September 11 as temperate and nearly cloudless. By 4 a.m., Michael Tuohey was already at work at the U.S. Air ticket counter at the airport in Portland, Maine.

TUOHEY: Crystal clear, blue sky. Just a fabulous day to go to work.

GRIFFIN: One hour and 43 minutes into Tuohey's day, two men approached his ticket counter rushing to catch the 6 a.m. flight to Boston.

TUOHEY: They had a tie and jacket on. And as I'm looking at them, you know, they're holding their I.D.s up, and I'm looking at them. It's not nice but I said, "Geez, if this doesn't look like two Arab terrorists, I've never seen two Arab terrorists."

GRIFFIN: That was your first reaction?

TUOHEY: That was my thought as I'm looking at them. I'm looking at their licenses, and I'm looking at -- and that thought ran through my mind.

GRIFFIN: Where did that thought go?

TUOHEY: I don't know. At the -- immediately I felt guilty about thinking something like that. I -- I just said this is awful. How -- you know, I've checked in thousands of Arabic people over the years, you know, in doing the same job, businessman. I said these are just a couple of Arab business guys.

GRIFFIN: But something about these two men was different. Tuohey says the younger man, Abdul Aziz al-Amari could barely speak English. The other was Mohammed Atta. Tuohey says he had the eyes of a killer.

TUOHEY: He did. He had the deadest eyes I've ever seen.

GRIFFIN: Setting aside his gut reaction, Tuohey issued the boarding passes. The flight was leaving in 17 minutes, and Atta and Amari still had to clear security.

But Atta told Tuohey he wanted not only the boarding passes for the US Air flight to Boston but also the passes for their conducting American Airlines flight to Los Angeles.

Atta, the mastermind behind the 9/11 plan, was facing the plan's first obstacle, a gate agent with an attitude. ​

 

[Synthaholic]

Bush White House Deaf to 9/11 Warnings

Damn...

Why don't we talk about Bill Clinton as President being offered Bin Laden on a platter 3 different times--and Clinton refused to take him?

No one talks about that--and if you remember we were attacked on 4 different occasions on Bill's watch.

Because it's been debunked already in this thread, and for years now.

 

[Eaglewings]

Yep they knew, Bush took off in Air Force One for hours and no one knew where he was when America needed him.
All flights were shut down except for getting the Bin Laden family out.

 

[Synthaholic]

From the op-ed linked in the OP:



That's because there was this policy called the "Gorelick Wall" which prevented the CIA and the FBI from collaborating. Therefore, no action could have been taken because the dots had not been connected.

Both the FBI and the CIA report to the administration. FAIL.

National Security is the job of the National Security Adviser - Condi Rice. She marginalized Clarke and they all listened to Wolfowitz over the CIA and military experts.

Yes, both the FBI and the CIA report to the administration. And there was NO coordination between them due to a DOJ policy called the "Gorelick Wall."

National Security is the job of the National Security Advisor, but that position did not have any authority over the CIA, the FBI, nor any other intelligence entity. Rice didn't marginalize Clarke and there was no justification for pre-emptive strikes as he recommended. Look at how batshit you folks went over Iraq?

Rice did marginalize Clarke. It is self-evident.

And you keep rehashing debunked talking points, because the facts are not on your side:

As we detailed in 2005, when this falsehood first surfaced, the so-called "wall" between law enforcement and intelligence agencies was first constructed long before Gorelick appeared on the scene. A joint House and Senate intelligence committees' report of pre-September 11 intelligence failures found that the "wall" was "constructed over 60 years as a result of legal, policy, institutional and personal factors," and a ruling by the top-secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review -- when it met for the first time in 2002 -- traces the origin of the "wall" to "some point during the 1980s."

The Gorelick memo that conservatives have cited as the creation of the "wall" applied only to divisions within the Justice Department; it did not apply to military intelligence agencies. So, for instance, if military intelligence had identified 9-11 hijacker Mohammed Atta as a potential terrorist prior to the attack, there was nothing preventing the military from sharing that information with intelligence agencies or law enforcement officials, despite what some have claimed and what Coulter seems to be suggesting.


Further, as we've also noted, the "wall" was reauthorized in August 2001 by Larry D. Thompson, deputy attorney general under then-Attorney General John Ashcroft -- appointed by President George W. Bush, a Republican -- and Thompson even proposed expanding it.


Funny, we don't recall Coulter taking to task any official working under a Republican president for their role in building the "wall."
​

Who was president in the 1980s?

Massive FAIL.

 

[Synthaholic]

Factcheck.org is wrong. Bin Laden send militants to Somalia to fight with Mohammed Farah Aideed.

Who Is Bin Laden? - Interview With Osama Bin Laden (in May 1998) | Hunting Bin Laden | FRONTLINE | PBS

That has nothing to do with the debunked notion that Clinton passed on killing bin Laden.

Now you're just flailing blindly.

Flailing blindly? I showed where Factcheck's analysis of that situation is wrong. I factchecked Factcheck.

No, you haven't. Claiming they're wrong is not the same as proving they are wrong.

Maybe that works in the RW bubble, but not in the reality-based world.

 

[Synthaholic]

Clinton was warned over and over also, and his response was the Gorelick Wall. But somehow I don't think you'll place any blame in his direction.

What did Bush do about the Cole attack?

Probably criticized Clinton for it, since Bush was a candidate at the time.

For sake of argument, let's say that you are correct about Clinton's non-action.

The attack happened in October, 2000. Bush took office only 3 months later.

Why didn't Bush do anything about it?

Is there an expiration date on reprisals?

Was Bush limited to a specific window in which to respond?


Try to muster some honesty.

 

[Pasco08]

I was about to make a thread about this then i saw it was already made there is no question in my mind bush let the attacks happen so he could go after Iraq he was after Iraq well before he was elected president. He really should be arrested for negligence and war crimes.

 

[Synthaholic]

The ACLU and the GOP aligned? That's a farce. Also, Presidents don't write bills and bills don't fight international terrorism.

Clinton had all the tools he needed but did not want to go to war. He had quite a history of doing that. I actually think it was his appointees who were incompetent, but that is also a major blind spot of his.

They fought together against the tough anti-terrorist bill of 1996.

Republicans Watered Down 1996 Clinton Anti-Terrorism Bill

No version of that bill would have done squat to stop Al Qaida. The parts the rebublicans bocked were the chemical tags and the increased law enforcement powers of the FBI. But since the Gorelick Wall was implemented, the FBI and the CIA couldn't collaborate.

Nice try, but no cigar.

Which I have now debunked.

Are you going to continue to cite lies?

 

[Synthaholic]

Flailing blindly? I showed where Factcheck's analysis of that situation is wrong. I factchecked Factcheck.

When you convince Factcheck.org that you're right, I'll take another look.

Here's their contact information:

FactCheck.org : Contact Us

See that's where you and I are going to have to disagree. I don't think FactCheck.org is an authority on what actually happened during that time.

You can choose to ignore documented facts at your pleasure.

The 9/11 Commission is. I posted the link where they said that it never happened.

Are you going to continue to cite that lie, too?

 

[Synthaholic]

and Obama's president now, but you guys love bringing bush up as the cause of all woes.

Next time think before you post, your logical faux pas are comical, and make you look rather stupid.

No, you think. Obama has kept America safe - so far - and Bush actions and policies are still driving the debt numbers. It ain't rocket science...

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...a-direct-indirect-result-of-bush-actions.html

Obama has all the authority he needs to reverse any Bush policy.

He can reverse Bush's massive debt with a stroke of a pen?

How?

You are a dishonest person.