NYT: He did it because he was Harrassed about being Muslim.

Excuses excuses. One cannot rationalize irrational behavior One cannot comprehend the incomporensible. Anyone who thinks that through "kumbaya" tolerance and understanding these evil doers will stop is doing nothing more surrendering and condoning jihadism. It will not stop until rational people (esp moderate Muslims) start kicking their asses back to the desert. Americas reputation for multiculturisn and diversity should not be inclusive of mass murderers.

It's not excusing anything. It's trying to make sense out of actions most of us could never comprehend doing. You see this with any tragic event.

Although he was raised Muslim, from all reports his family wasn't particularly devout. I live in the area where he grew up, and I don't doubt that to be the case. Something along the way caused him to take this path. From interviews with people who knew him back then, he seemed to begin to lose it after his parents died.

There are a number of people who knew him speaking out now about their concerns with his behaviour. IMO, the most telling have nothing to do with his Muslim faith. The interview that stood out most to me is how his uncle described him as increasingly distraught over his patients and their experiences; it's obvious from the uncle's comments that Hasan was becoming more and more personally involved with his patients and (if what the uncle states is accurate) blurring the line between his professional duties and personal feelings, allowing their troubles to become his own.

I know from my own experience how easy it is to cross that line. The ability to empathize with one's patients is good to a point. However, once you begin to take on those feelings and relate them to your own situation, you've ceased being an effective caregiver. I hope this is making sense. As an example, back when my mom was ill and dying of cancer, I sat with one of my patients as she cried about her prognosis (she was a young woman with metastatic breast cancer) and how she was going to die all alone (single, parents were dead). I cried with her, not because of her situation, but rather I imagined myself going through what she described.

Not long after this, I quit to take a job on a diabetic unit; I stayed there for a couple of years until I felt I could once again be effective as an oncology nurse. Luckily, I had the support system in place to help me see what was happening and how detrimental it was to my patients and myself as well.

I can't imagine how difficult it would be for someone working in psych to keep themselves insulated against falling into that trap of becoming too involved in their patients' problems. As a psychiatrist, he should have been aware that he was doing so but like I said, it's very easy to cross that line. What I'd like to know is if any of the therapists or psychiatrists he worked with took notice that he was becoming so involved, and if they attempted to intervene.

From interviews with those who knew him, Hasan didn't have this level of support, if any at all. He was alone, and perhaps too caring for his patients, internalizing their problems as his own. That could explain why he became more and more desperate not to be deployed.


To acknowledge these issues is not to defend or excuse his actions. They are just pieces to the puzzle.
 
Emma,

Interesting spew about being an effective caregiver....I'll remember that. Thanks !
It's misplaced in this case, though.
I doubt very seriously that the soldiers under Hasan's care were wailing, lamenting, and knashing their teeth over the 'US war against Islam'. In fact, I highly suspect it was quite the opposite. I don't think for a moment that Hasan was sufferring due to the weight of his duties. I do believe that he was in opposition to wars against folks he identified with, especially given his degree of isolation as a Muslim officer in the US Army.
 
Excuses excuses. One cannot rationalize irrational behavior One cannot comprehend the incomporensible. Anyone who thinks that through "kumbaya" tolerance and understanding these evil doers will stop is doing nothing more surrendering and condoning jihadism. It will not stop until rational people (esp moderate Muslims) start kicking their asses back to the desert. Americas reputation for multiculturisn and diversity should not be inclusive of mass murderers.

It's not excusing anything. It's trying to make sense out of actions most of us could never comprehend doing. You see this with any tragic event.

Although he was raised Muslim, from all reports his family wasn't particularly devout. I live in the area where he grew up, and I don't doubt that to be the case. Something along the way caused him to take this path. From interviews with people who knew him back then, he seemed to begin to lose it after his parents died.

There are a number of people who knew him speaking out now about their concerns with his behaviour. IMO, the most telling have nothing to do with his Muslim faith. The interview that stood out most to me is how his uncle described him as increasingly distraught over his patients and their experiences; it's obvious from the uncle's comments that Hasan was becoming more and more personally involved with his patients and (if what the uncle states is accurate) blurring the line between his professional duties and personal feelings, allowing their troubles to become his own.

I know from my own experience how easy it is to cross that line. The ability to empathize with one's patients is good to a point. However, once you begin to take on those feelings and relate them to your own situation, you've ceased being an effective caregiver. I hope this is making sense. As an example, back when my mom was ill and dying of cancer, I sat with one of my patients as she cried about her prognosis (she was a young woman with metastatic breast cancer) and how she was going to die all alone (single, parents were dead). I cried with her, not because of her situation, but rather I imagined myself going through what she described.

Not long after this, I quit to take a job on a diabetic unit; I stayed there for a couple of years until I felt I could once again be effective as an oncology nurse. Luckily, I had the support system in place to help me see what was happening and how detrimental it was to my patients and myself as well.

I can't imagine how difficult it would be for someone working in psych to keep themselves insulated against falling into that trap of becoming too involved in their patients' problems. As a psychiatrist, he should have been aware that he was doing so but like I said, it's very easy to cross that line. What I'd like to know is if any of the therapists or psychiatrists he worked with took notice that he was becoming so involved, and if they attempted to intervene.

From interviews with those who knew him, Hasan didn't have this level of support, if any at all. He was alone, and perhaps too caring for his patients, internalizing their problems as his own. That could explain why he became more and more desperate not to be deployed.


To acknowledge these issues is not to defend or excuse his actions. They are just pieces to the puzzle.

And this Thread is MORE about the Timing of the NYT and the Flimsy Nature of their Evidence when they went to Ink with the Hearsay on the Front Page.

That can't be Dismissed now that Days have Passed.

The NYT was Looking for Excuses EARLY... Warm Dead Body Early.

That's Shameless.

:)

peace...
 
Emma,

Interesting spew about being an effective caregiver....I'll remember that. Thanks !
It's misplaced in this case, though.
I doubt very seriously that the soldiers under Hasan's care were wailing, lamenting, and knashing their teeth over the 'US war against Islam'. In fact, I highly suspect it was quite the opposite. I don't think for a moment that Hasan was sufferring due to the weight of his duties. I do believe that he was in opposition to wars against folks he identified with, especially given his degree of isolation as a Muslim officer in the US Army.
Don't believe I said anything about them 'wailing / gnashing teeth / lamenting.


I don't think for a moment that Hasan was sufferring due to the weight of his duties.

I disagree. The uncle mentioned the stress regarding his caseload. That has been reported before this event (not regarding Hasan in particular, but the overwhelming number of returning soldiers with psychiatric issues). He was also treating those with brain injuries as well as those with *just* psych problems.

It isn't clear that he was sympathetic to terrorists so much as he believed the US was at war with Islam in general. He no doubt empathized with both his patients and the people of Afghanistan/Iraq. That alone would be conflicting.
 
bullshit.....he did it because he is a nut job....he should be taken out in a field tied to a post and shot as a traitor.....fuck em....
 
No sale, Emma.
When you made the realization that you were crying because you 'were' going through having breast cancer, you didn't pick up a FN 5.7 and blow her away.
Hasan has gone online and lamented the role of the US in the GWOT while praising homicide bombers. He's been in fights WITH his patients over the relative worth of the losses THEY were feeling.
That sorta shoots the whole 'identification' thing down.....
 
bullshit.....he did it because he is a nut job....he should be taken out in a field tied to a post and shot as a traitor.....fuck em....

I'm Sure EVERY Person who does this has a "Reason" or an "Excuse"...

It's the Selective Nature of Some People to Focus on that that is Concerning.

I Certainly didn't Look to Understand Tim McVeigh, but the Left SURE Seems Interested when it's a Leftist Wackjob or an Islamist, and that Concerns me.

:)

peace...
 
I think it's safe to say that YOU are NOT the left, Malcontent.
Part of preventing something like this from happening again is attempting to understand the motive.
It wasn't terribly long before we knew that McVeigh and friends were pissed over Randy Weaver and Ruby Ridge. There was PLENTY of coverage of their motives as well.
It sells, remember ?
 
I think it's safe to say that YOU are NOT the left, Malcontent.
Part of preventing something like this from happening again is attempting to understand the motive.
It wasn't terribly long before we knew that McVeigh and friends were pissed over Randy Weaver and Ruby Ridge. There was PLENTY of coverage of their motives as well.
It sells, remember ?

There wasn't a Sympathetic Tone, and there wasn't Need to Understand them right then, while Ignoring other Evidence...

I got Substance from the NYT and WashPost doing just that while the Bodies are still Warm in Regards to this Islamist.

:)

peace...
 
And this Thread is MORE about the Timing of the NYT and the Flimsy Nature of their Evidence when they went to Ink with the Hearsay on the Front Page.

That can't be Dismissed now that Days have Passed.

The NYT was Looking for Excuses EARLY... Warm Dead Body Early.

That's Shameless.

:)

peace...
Well, I was responding the post about 'excuses'. As far as no evidence, there's at least one incident where his car was vandalized.
 
Emma,

Interesting spew about being an effective caregiver....I'll remember that. Thanks !

You may think it's "spew", but it's fact. Knowing where to draw that line and recognizing you may cross it (or already have) is vital.

No sale, Emma.
When you made the realization that you were crying because you 'were' going through having breast cancer, you didn't pick up a FN 5.7 and blow her away.
You missed the point entirely.

I never said that was the reason why he shot those soldiers. All I'm saying is that it no doubt contributed to his desperation (as evidenced in what others have said of his comments and behaviour, and that he had hired an attorney to try to get discharged from the Army).
 
Last edited:
And this Thread is MORE about the Timing of the NYT and the Flimsy Nature of their Evidence when they went to Ink with the Hearsay on the Front Page.

That can't be Dismissed now that Days have Passed.

The NYT was Looking for Excuses EARLY... Warm Dead Body Early.

That's Shameless.

:)

peace...
Well, I was responding the post about 'excuses'. As far as no evidence, there's at least one incident where his car was vandalized.

Link to the Evidence of that?...

And also, I am Speaking to the Timing of the NYT, not just their Obvious Sympathy for this Shooter as they Attempt to Spread the Blame to the Victims of his Shooting Spree.

But hey, they don't want a Jihad Called on them for Reporting things that might Displease Islamists...

:)

peace...
 
Emma, I meant no offense.
This is ALL spew...and I meant it when I expressed my thanks for that tidbit. I'm certain it'll come in handy for me professionally.

I still disagree with the whole 'overworked' thing. I think it's the nature of the work that did him in. He was charged with the care of those that he increasingly was seeing as 'the enemy'.

Yeah, I can see where a certain degree of stress would be added to his resultant duties, but it's not the same as the type you and your collegues experience. I'm willing to say that without even knowing exactly what it is you do. It's not what you are referring to.
 
The manager, John Thompson, says a fellow soldier allegedly keyed Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's car and ripped up the bumper sticker. Thompson says the soldier had been to Iraq and was upset to learn Hasan was Muslim.

Thompson, who manages the Killeen, Texas complex where Hasan lives, says the bumper sticker read: "Allah is Love." In Arabic, Allah means God.

A report filed on Aug. 16 with Killeen police says Hasan's car had been scratched causing $1,000 worth of damage. The report says an Army employee had been arrested.

The Associated Press: Manager: Muslim sticker removed from suspect's car

First thing that came up on google. It's been mentioned in a number of other articles too.
 
Link to the Evidence of that?...

A soldier who'd recently returned from Iraq keyed his car and tore off a bumper sticker related to his religion. He was arrested and charged. I'll see if I can find an article with the details.

Ah... Was he a Patient?

Not Mention, can we give the Accused in that "Vandalism" the Same Benefit of the Doubt we are this Shooter, for Keeeeeeeeeeeeeey-rists Sake!

You didn't say he was Convicted.

:)

peace...
 
Emma, I meant no offense.
This is ALL spew...and I meant it when I expressed my thanks for that tidbit. I'm certain it'll come in handy for me professionally.

I still disagree with the whole 'overworked' thing. I think it's the nature of the work that did him in. He was charged with the care of those that he increasingly was seeing as 'the enemy'.

Yeah, I can see where a certain degree of stress would be added to his resultant duties, but it's not the same as the type you and your collegues experience. I'm willing to say that without even knowing exactly what it is you do. It's not what you are referring to.

No worries. Sorry i misunderstood you.

I'm an RN in oncology. That certainly has its stress, especially considering the psychological impact it has on my patients, but working with the patient population he dealt with would be even more stressful, IMO.

I have support from my coworkers, friends and family. I'm able to blow off steam and relieve that stress (or at least some of it). It doesn't appear that Hasan had that net, or what he had was lacking. No matter where his sympathies lie as far as Muslims (either with the terrorists or simply with the people of those countries where we're at war), it's obvious that would conflict with what he had to deal with on a professional level. I think it contributed to his isolation, which in turn only served to cement his (apparent) radical thoughts and behaviour.

I don't care how good someone is at providing psychiatric / psychological care, unless they're a totally cold hearted bastard, there has to be an outlet of some form to keep things in perspective and for them to remain an effective caregiver. You simply cannot listen to what these people have gone through (and what many will fight the rest of their lives) and expect it to not have an impact on your personally. I wonder too if the military has a system in place to monitor and support the caregivers (on all levels). I suspect if there wasn't before, this incident would lead them to provide this (at least I hope it would).

Don't misunderstand what I'm about to say. He was wrong and should be punished to whatever extent the military can do so, even if that means the death penalty. I would support that in this case without question. That said, I think it's a shame that someone with such obvious potential to help others and do good in this world would go down this path.
 
Link to the Evidence of that?...

A soldier who'd recently returned from Iraq keyed his car and tore off a bumper sticker related to his religion. He was arrested and charged. I'll see if I can find an article with the details.

Ah... Was he a Patient?

Not Mention, can we give the Accused in that "Vandalism" the Same Benefit of the Doubt we are this Shooter, for Keeeeeeeeeeeeeey-rists Sake!

You didn't say he was Convicted.

:)

peace...

I'm not giving Hasan the benefit of the doubt. It's obvious he's guilty.

The person who keyed his car lived in his apartment complex, not a patient. An interview with one of his neighbors stated she witnessed him being harassed and derided for his religious beliefs by others at the complex.

I don't doubt he had turned to a radical interpretation of Islam. From all accounts, that seems to be something that evolved in recent years.
 
Emma,
If there's one thing we are good at in the military it's closing the door once the dog's out. That said, i don't know if the monitoring system for caregivers was around before this......I'm not a medical guy.
Didn't think much of the lack of outlet for the 'non-radical' marbles created simply by the 'normal' stress of his job. Yup, I can see where that would have plugged directly into his isolation as well.
Duly noted ;)
 
A soldier who'd recently returned from Iraq keyed his car and tore off a bumper sticker related to his religion. He was arrested and charged. I'll see if I can find an article with the details.

Ah... Was he a Patient?

Not Mention, can we give the Accused in that "Vandalism" the Same Benefit of the Doubt we are this Shooter, for Keeeeeeeeeeeeeey-rists Sake!

You didn't say he was Convicted.

:)

peace...

I'm not giving Hasan the benefit of the doubt. It's obvious he's guilty.

The person who keyed his car lived in his apartment complex, not a patient. An interview with one of his neighbors stated she witnessed him being harassed and derided for his religious beliefs by others at the complex.

I don't doubt he had turned to a radical interpretation of Islam. From all accounts, that seems to be something that evolved in recent years.

By Radical Interpretation of Islam, you would be Referring to the one that Runs MANY of the Governments in the ME and is Responsible for the Majority of Terrorism around the Globe?...

Wouldn't "Radical" lead one to Believe it's not the Standard in the ME?...

Radical to some Western Muslims, maybe... But Objectively the Standard in the ME where Homosexuals are Executed for their Sexual Choices and Women are Divorced by being Stoned to Death after being Buried up to their Necks in the Public Square?...

I'm not Talking about the 15th Century here...

:)

peace...
 

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