Obama Admits Administration Failure: Says Overestimated Iraq Army, Underestimated I S I S

[Oldstyle]

in other words, he pulled out to fulfill a campaign promise. PUre and simple. The rest is just excuses.

He pulled out because it was the right thing to do, but now he's undoing that by getting sucked back in.

Obviously, Carbineer it WASN'T the right thing to do! It may have been the political thing to do but it was a serious mistake from a strategic point of view. He's the President of the United States...not the President of Democrats of the United States.

He's getting "sucked back in" because he has reluctantly come to understand that he can't simply declare war "over" in Iraq, Al Queda decimated and have that be the way it really is!

 

[NYcarbineer]

in other words, he pulled out to fulfill a campaign promise. PUre and simple. The rest is just excuses.

He pulled out because it was the right thing to do, but now he's undoing that by getting sucked back in.

Remember that post I wrote early on that said we've backed you libs into a corner? Ummmmm, here's another example.

What the fuck are you talking about? I supported staying out of Iraq, then I supported getting out of Iraq, now I support staying out of Iraq.

What's the problem?

 

[teapartysamurai]

Obama's trying to hang ISIS missteps on the intelligence community, but the IC warned Obama about ISIS a year ago.

Now he's on 60 Minutes admitting his Administration's failure.....after all, Director Clapper is part of HIS Administration..... about a number of missteps including underestimating ISIS and overestimating the Iraqi Army.

But the IC isn't going to put up with allowing Obama to hang that lie around their necks. It was his stupidity, not theirs.



Eye Opener President Obama admits he underestimated ISIS - Videos - CBS News


Eye Opener: President Obama admits he underestimated ISIS

I already did this thread:

Obama Blames Intel How Come That Wasn t Okay For Bush US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

 

[Plasmaball]

Obama's trying to hang ISIS missteps on the intelligence community, but the IC warned Obama about ISIS a year ago.

Now he's on 60 Minutes admitting his Administration's failure.....after all, Director Clapper is part of HIS Administration..... about a number of missteps including underestimating ISIS and overestimating the Iraqi Army.

But the IC isn't going to put up with allowing Obama to hang that lie around their necks. It was his stupidity, not theirs.



Eye Opener President Obama admits he underestimated ISIS - Videos - CBS News


Eye Opener: President Obama admits he underestimated ISIS

Do we have a full video of the interview? I'd like to see context.
Since we didn't know maliki would pull this shit with the Iraqi army, obama doesn't get full blame.

Well, Plasma, since you're trying to have a serious discussion, it's true Obama doesn't get full blame. I agree no president ever does.

When a President takes blame for something in his Administration, there are usually a number of people that were involved. So I'll agree with you on that point.

But to say we didn't know Maliki would do "shit" ....I couldn't disagree more. There were many of us warning what would happen if we didn't leave a residual force. Those of us heavily involved knew we were the GLUE and by removing the glue it would collapse.

guess bush shouldn't have agreed to pull everyone out then.

i'm also not sure that a residual training force would have made the difference in how the iraqi forces behaved.

Obama put the kybosh to the negotiations to keep a sizable troop level in Iraq. He did not want to renegotiate the SOFA. Obama had the opportunity to.

He refused. In his own words. Not spin. Here's Obama boasting about his full troop withdrawal.

Obama's 2012 Debate Boast: I Didn't Want to Leave Any Troops in Iraq

From the article:

"But during the 2012 foreign policy presidential debate, Obama told the American people that he didn't support leaving any troops in Iraq.

"Every time you've offered an opinion, you've been wrong," Obama told GOP presidential candidate Mitt Romney.

"You said that we should still have troops in Iraq to this day."

Obama then denied that he ever supported a status of forces agreement that would have left troops in Iraq:

MR. ROMNEY: [W]ith regards to Iraq, you and I agreed, I believe, that there should have been a status of forces agreement. Did you —

PRESIDENT OBAMA: That's not true.

MR. ROMNEY: Oh, you didn't — you didn't want a status of forces agreement?

PRESIDENT OBAMA: No, but what I — what I would not have done is left 10,000 troops in Iraq that would tie us down. That certainly would not help us in the Middle East.

"Here's one thing I've learned as commander in chief," Obama said at the end of the exchange. "You've got to be clear, both to our allies and our enemies, about where you stand and what you mean. Now, you just gave a speech a few weeks ago in which you said we should still have troops in Iraq. That is not a recipe for making sure that we are taking advantage of the opportunities and meeting the challenges of the Middle East."




Obama s 2012 Debate Boast I Didn t Want to Leave Any Troops in Iraq The Weekly Standard

Woulda coulda nothing..

 

[paperview]

Obama put the kybosh to the negotiations to keep a sizable troop level in Iraq. He did not want to renegotiate the SOFA. Obama had the opportunity to.

He refused. In his own words. Not spin. Here's Obama boasting about his full troop withdrawal.

...

Ahem: CNN Fact Check Romney Obama and Iraq - CNN.com

 

[NYcarbineer]

in other words, he pulled out to fulfill a campaign promise. PUre and simple. The rest is just excuses.

He pulled out because it was the right thing to do, but now he's undoing that by getting sucked back in.

Obviously, Carbineer it WASN'T the right thing to do! It may have been the political thing to do but it was a serious mistake from a strategic point of view. He's the President of the United States...not the President of Democrats of the United States.

He's getting "sucked back in" because he has reluctantly come to understand that he can't simply declare war "over" in Iraq, Al Queda decimated and have that be the way it really is!

Occupying a sovereign nation against its wishes is not the right thing to do.

 

[Oldstyle]

I recall that you people wouldn't allow us to blame Bush for the disaster of Iraq, no WMD's etc., because you claimed it was an intelligence failure that Bush cannot be held accountable for.

Can we apply this argument to Obama?

Only if you can show me posts where you argued that on behalf of Bush. In that case you can.

I haven't been here long.....what do others think about Carb's voracity on this question?????????? Did he spend time defending Bush or slamming him?

I didn't argue. It's been argued by the Bush apologists for years. Bush got bad intel about WMD's, so he can't be blamed for making the disastrous mistake of invading Iraq.

You really want to claim you've never heard that argument made before to defend Bush? Are you in denial?

Equating bad intel about what WMD's a secretive nation such as Saddam Hussein's Iraq might have had with intel about the danger posed by ISIS as they were in the process of taking over major cities in both Syria and Iraq is rather laughable, Carbineer! One scenario is taking place where your adversary is doing everything it can to hide it's secrets from you and in the other your adversary is conducting a media campaign to TRUMPET what it is that they are doing!

 

[Oldstyle]

Bottom line I don't care if the intelligence you got was bad...you run the country...you make the calls...you take the blame or the credit. I hold George W. Bush responsible for putting too much faith in the intel that he did just as I hold Barack Obama responsible for ignoring the intel that he got about ISIS.

 

[bodecea]

Obama's trying to hang ISIS missteps on the intelligence community, but the IC warned Obama about ISIS a year ago.

Now he's on 60 Minutes admitting his Administration's failure.....after all, Director Clapper is part of HIS Administration..... about a number of missteps including underestimating ISIS and overestimating the Iraqi Army.

But the IC isn't going to put up with allowing Obama to hang that lie around their necks. It was his stupidity, not theirs.



Eye Opener President Obama admits he underestimated ISIS - Videos - CBS News


Eye Opener: President Obama admits he underestimated ISIS

Yep...and let us hope that we are now learning from our mistakes.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jup, this admin screwed itself as did the Bush administrations because of confirmation bias and false intelligence assessments. At least heavy combat units are not going to be American. Doesn't matter what says Dempsey et al. Either the Iraqis, the Kurds, and the Turks step out, or we will step out.

 

[ogibillm]

Obama's trying to hang ISIS missteps on the intelligence community, but the IC warned Obama about ISIS a year ago.

Now he's on 60 Minutes admitting his Administration's failure.....after all, Director Clapper is part of HIS Administration..... about a number of missteps including underestimating ISIS and overestimating the Iraqi Army.

But the IC isn't going to put up with allowing Obama to hang that lie around their necks. It was his stupidity, not theirs.



Eye Opener President Obama admits he underestimated ISIS - Videos - CBS News


Eye Opener: President Obama admits he underestimated ISIS

Do we have a full video of the interview? I'd like to see context.
Since we didn't know maliki would pull this shit with the Iraqi army, obama doesn't get full blame.

Well, Plasma, since you're trying to have a serious discussion, it's true Obama doesn't get full blame. I agree no president ever does.

When a President takes blame for something in his Administration, there are usually a number of people that were involved. So I'll agree with you on that point.

But to say we didn't know Maliki would do "shit" ....I couldn't disagree more. There were many of us warning what would happen if we didn't leave a residual force. Those of us heavily involved knew we were the GLUE and by removing the glue it would collapse.

We didn't know how maliki would react when we pulled out. That he would try to consolidate power with lackeys.

Bush picked an unknown and thus when maliki got his chance he took it. Would maliki had done this if Obama hadn't pulled out the advisors? Maybe but most likely not.

What you're saying is absolutely not true, Plasma.

We also knew how Maliki was going to act if we pulled completely out.

Anyone telling you different doesn't know what they're talking about.

Those of us that had to spend a lot of time negotiating with Iraqis knew how fragile arrangements were with even people of great integrity. We knew by leaving that we couldn't help sure that wobbly-ness up.

again, if you knew how maliki was going to react to a complete pull out of troops why did president bush agree to a complete removal of all troops?

 

[EconChick]

I recall that you people wouldn't allow us to blame Bush for the disaster of Iraq, no WMD's etc., because you claimed it was an intelligence failure that Bush cannot be held accountable for.

Can we apply this argument to Obama?

Only if you can show me posts where you argued that on behalf of Bush. In that case you can.

I haven't been here long.....what do others think about Carb's voracity on this question?????????? Did he spend time defending Bush or slamming him?

I didn't argue. It's been argued by the Bush apologists for years. Bush got bad intel about WMD's, so he can't be blamed for making the disastrous mistake of invading Iraq.

You really want to claim you've never heard that argument made before to defend Bush? Are you in denial?

Come on don't make me move you into the category of liberal with no credibility at all like ogi.

Did YOU blame Bush, or did YOU explain to ppl it wasn't him, it was intel?

Most libs blamed Bush and didn't offer "it was intel" so NO, most can't use it. I"m saying if you were dif than you can be treated differently.

 

[EconChick]

Jup, this admin screwed itself as did the Bush administrations because of confirmation bias and false intelligence assessments. At least heavy combat units are not going to be American. Doesn't matter what says Dempsey et al. Either the Iraqis, the Kurds, and the Turks step out, or we will step out.

No dummy, the intel assessments were right. Don't you ever get ANYTHING right????????????

 

[Plasmaball]

Obama's trying to hang ISIS missteps on the intelligence community, but the IC warned Obama about ISIS a year ago.

Now he's on 60 Minutes admitting his Administration's failure.....after all, Director Clapper is part of HIS Administration..... about a number of missteps including underestimating ISIS and overestimating the Iraqi Army.

But the IC isn't going to put up with allowing Obama to hang that lie around their necks. It was his stupidity, not theirs.



Eye Opener President Obama admits he underestimated ISIS - Videos - CBS News


Eye Opener: President Obama admits he underestimated ISIS

Do we have a full video of the interview? I'd like to see context.
Since we didn't know maliki would pull this shit with the Iraqi army, obama doesn't get full blame.

Well, Plasma, since you're trying to have a serious discussion, it's true Obama doesn't get full blame. I agree no president ever does.

When a President takes blame for something in his Administration, there are usually a number of people that were involved. So I'll agree with you on that point.

But to say we didn't know Maliki would do "shit" ....I couldn't disagree more. There were many of us warning what would happen if we didn't leave a residual force. Those of us heavily involved knew we were the GLUE and by removing the glue it would collapse.

We didn't know how maliki would react when we pulled out. That he would try to consolidate power with lackeys.

Bush picked an unknown and thus when maliki got his chance he took it. Would maliki had done this if Obama hadn't pulled out the advisors? Maybe but most likely not.

What you're saying is absolutely not true, Plasma.

We also knew how Maliki was going to act if we pulled completely out.

Anyone telling you different doesn't know what they're talking about.

Those of us that had to spend a lot of time negotiating with Iraqis knew how fragile arrangements were with even people of great integrity. We knew by leaving that we couldn't help sure that wobbly-ness up.

I'm going off your PBS Frontline link you gave that I watched the full episode.
We didn't know who Maliki was when Bushed picked him, this we didn't know what he would do when we pulled out.

You fed me the info econ...you

 

[EconChick]

Obama's trying to hang ISIS missteps on the intelligence community, but the IC warned Obama about ISIS a year ago.

Now he's on 60 Minutes admitting his Administration's failure.....after all, Director Clapper is part of HIS Administration..... about a number of missteps including underestimating ISIS and overestimating the Iraqi Army.

But the IC isn't going to put up with allowing Obama to hang that lie around their necks. It was his stupidity, not theirs.



Eye Opener President Obama admits he underestimated ISIS - Videos - CBS News


Eye Opener: President Obama admits he underestimated ISIS

Do we have a full video of the interview? I'd like to see context.
Since we didn't know maliki would pull this shit with the Iraqi army, obama doesn't get full blame.

Well, Plasma, since you're trying to have a serious discussion, it's true Obama doesn't get full blame. I agree no president ever does.

When a President takes blame for something in his Administration, there are usually a number of people that were involved. So I'll agree with you on that point.

But to say we didn't know Maliki would do "shit" ....I couldn't disagree more. There were many of us warning what would happen if we didn't leave a residual force. Those of us heavily involved knew we were the GLUE and by removing the glue it would collapse.

We didn't know how maliki would react when we pulled out. That he would try to consolidate power with lackeys.

Bush picked an unknown and thus when maliki got his chance he took it. Would maliki had done this if Obama hadn't pulled out the advisors? Maybe but most likely not.

What you're saying is absolutely not true, Plasma.

We also knew how Maliki was going to act if we pulled completely out.

Anyone telling you different doesn't know what they're talking about.

Those of us that had to spend a lot of time negotiating with Iraqis knew how fragile arrangements were with even people of great integrity. We knew by leaving that we couldn't help sure that wobbly-ness up.

again, if you knew how maliki was going to react to a complete pull out of troops why did president bush agree to a complete removal of all troops?

He didn't.

Look stupid, I've spent over 2000 posts explaining that to NotFooled. I'm not wasting my breath on people like you who are not debating in good faith.

 

[EconChick]

Obama's trying to hang ISIS missteps on the intelligence community, but the IC warned Obama about ISIS a year ago.

Now he's on 60 Minutes admitting his Administration's failure.....after all, Director Clapper is part of HIS Administration..... about a number of missteps including underestimating ISIS and overestimating the Iraqi Army.

But the IC isn't going to put up with allowing Obama to hang that lie around their necks. It was his stupidity, not theirs.



Eye Opener President Obama admits he underestimated ISIS - Videos - CBS News


Eye Opener: President Obama admits he underestimated ISIS

Do we have a full video of the interview? I'd like to see context.
Since we didn't know maliki would pull this shit with the Iraqi army, obama doesn't get full blame.

Well, Plasma, since you're trying to have a serious discussion, it's true Obama doesn't get full blame. I agree no president ever does.

When a President takes blame for something in his Administration, there are usually a number of people that were involved. So I'll agree with you on that point.

But to say we didn't know Maliki would do "shit" ....I couldn't disagree more. There were many of us warning what would happen if we didn't leave a residual force. Those of us heavily involved knew we were the GLUE and by removing the glue it would collapse.

guess bush shouldn't have agreed to pull everyone out then.

i'm also not sure that a residual training force would have made the difference in how the iraqi forces behaved.

You're hopeless when it comes to listening. that's why.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jup, this admin screwed itself as did the Bush administrations because of confirmation bias and false intelligence assessments. At least heavy combat units are not going to be American. Doesn't matter what says Dempsey et al. Either the Iraqis, the Kurds, and the Turks step out, or we will step out.

No dummy, the intel assessments were right. Don't you ever get ANYTHING right????????????

Nope, you are so backward. The chiefs must have fired you within the first 15 seconds you briefed. If you briefed.

 

[ogibillm]

Do we have a full video of the interview? I'd like to see context.
Since we didn't know maliki would pull this shit with the Iraqi army, obama doesn't get full blame.

Well, Plasma, since you're trying to have a serious discussion, it's true Obama doesn't get full blame. I agree no president ever does.

When a President takes blame for something in his Administration, there are usually a number of people that were involved. So I'll agree with you on that point.

But to say we didn't know Maliki would do "shit" ....I couldn't disagree more. There were many of us warning what would happen if we didn't leave a residual force. Those of us heavily involved knew we were the GLUE and by removing the glue it would collapse.

We didn't know how maliki would react when we pulled out. That he would try to consolidate power with lackeys.

Bush picked an unknown and thus when maliki got his chance he took it. Would maliki had done this if Obama hadn't pulled out the advisors? Maybe but most likely not.

What you're saying is absolutely not true, Plasma.

We also knew how Maliki was going to act if we pulled completely out.

Anyone telling you different doesn't know what they're talking about.

Those of us that had to spend a lot of time negotiating with Iraqis knew how fragile arrangements were with even people of great integrity. We knew by leaving that we couldn't help sure that wobbly-ness up.

again, if you knew how maliki was going to react to a complete pull out of troops why did president bush agree to a complete removal of all troops?

He didn't.

Look stupid, I've spent over 2000 posts explaining that to NotFooled. I'm not wasting my breath on people like you who are not debating in good faith.

this isn't a matter of opinion. george w bush agreed to a complete withdrawal of troops by 2012. that is a fact.
if it was so obvious that things would fall apart upon our leaving, why did we paint ourselves into a corner by agreeing to withdraw all troops?

 

[EconChick]

Obama's trying to hang ISIS missteps on the intelligence community, but the IC warned Obama about ISIS a year ago.

Now he's on 60 Minutes admitting his Administration's failure.....after all, Director Clapper is part of HIS Administration..... about a number of missteps including underestimating ISIS and overestimating the Iraqi Army.

But the IC isn't going to put up with allowing Obama to hang that lie around their necks. It was his stupidity, not theirs.



Eye Opener President Obama admits he underestimated ISIS - Videos - CBS News


Eye Opener: President Obama admits he underestimated ISIS

Do we have a full video of the interview? I'd like to see context.
Since we didn't know maliki would pull this shit with the Iraqi army, obama doesn't get full blame.

Well, Plasma, since you're trying to have a serious discussion, it's true Obama doesn't get full blame. I agree no president ever does.

When a President takes blame for something in his Administration, there are usually a number of people that were involved. So I'll agree with you on that point.

But to say we didn't know Maliki would do "shit" ....I couldn't disagree more. There were many of us warning what would happen if we didn't leave a residual force. Those of us heavily involved knew we were the GLUE and by removing the glue it would collapse.

We didn't know how maliki would react when we pulled out. That he would try to consolidate power with lackeys.

Bush picked an unknown and thus when maliki got his chance he took it. Would maliki had done this if Obama hadn't pulled out the advisors? Maybe but most likely not.

What you're saying is absolutely not true, Plasma.

We also knew how Maliki was going to act if we pulled completely out.

Anyone telling you different doesn't know what they're talking about.

Those of us that had to spend a lot of time negotiating with Iraqis knew how fragile arrangements were with even people of great integrity. We knew by leaving that we couldn't help sure that wobbly-ness up.

I'm going off your PBS Frontline link you gave that I watched the full episode.
We didn't know who Maliki was when Bushed picked him, this we didn't know what he would do when we pulled out.

You fed me the info econ...you

First of all, I was pretty sure I caveated the first time I posted it that I didn't agree with all of it. I agreed with it at the broad brush level.


When people say we dint' know ANYTHING about Maliki....come on you know that doesn't pass smell test because once someone rises, you at least start ascertaining their reputation. What's meant by that is that he was little known at a national level.

See I think you guys are locking on to words used in those documentaries, or things you read, that are sometimes literal and sometimes figurative.

And no, it's not true that Bush went and found him. He rose within the Shia Political community to where THEY wanted him to be one of maybe a few to be THEIR rep.

 

[EconChick]

Jup, this admin screwed itself as did the Bush administrations because of confirmation bias and false intelligence assessments. At least heavy combat units are not going to be American. Doesn't matter what says Dempsey et al. Either the Iraqis, the Kurds, and the Turks step out, or we will step out.

No dummy, the intel assessments were right. Don't you ever get ANYTHING right????????????

Nope, you are so backward. The chiefs must have fired you within the first 15 seconds you briefed. If you briefed.

STFU. There's no one more stupid on the subject of war or military than you.