obama caves again

[Ravi]

The church runs "charities". It is a business like endevor, they use budgets (unlike the dems), planning and management to keep it running smoothly. Are you really, really suggesting that all the Christian charities just stop? And the left is always telling conservatives how they really care about the poor. The reaction to the church on this is very telling to exactly how the left FEELS about the poor.

They run non-profit organizations. They are free to do so but they are not free to have special rules, IMO.

They could meet their charitable "mandates" by having the priests hand out clothing and food to the poor.

They run charities which the government requires them to register as non profit business organizations. That does not give the government the power to take away their right for them to exercise their religion.

As posted earlier in the thread, the first amendment covers the rights of individuals, not businesses.

And aside from that, no one is taking away their right to exercise their religion.

 

[logical4u]

No, really, I don't. In fact, most people already know not to discuss religion with me.

It will only end in tears...

tissue?

Only ones crying are the ones who find out there's no Sky Pixie..

Do you really think you are going to be there when people discover what comes after death? Why are you so preoccupied with seeing others in pain?

 

[Conservative]

Did he say free? I thought he said with no copay. Do you have the same objections to the other things that insurances must offer without copay?

And if so, why? If you must have insurance to receive decent medical care why is it wrong to make insurance companies cover preventative care without copay?

Obama said free, which proves he is an idiot, and proves you shouldn't be discussing this since you don't know what is going on.

Then you should be able to provide a link.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/207554-obama-never-ordered-anyone-to-give-contraception-for-free.html#post4796416

Just one clarification here folks. Obama never ordered insurance companies to give contraception to people for free. He ordered that, like an annual physical, it be included in the benefits that they pay for. If they don't pay their premiums, they don't get any benefits - including bc.

Was it a mistake? Of course. But let's at least get the mistake he made right, folks.

funny... that's not what he said in this video. Check out from 1:35...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62-0U6G6HB4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

The insurance company... not the hospital, not the charity... will be required to reach out and offer the woman contraceptive care free of charge... without co-pays, and without hassles.

Care to explain to us again how Obama did NOT say the insurance companies would offer contraceptives to anyone for free?

Information is your friend.

 

[del]

tissue?

Only ones crying are the ones who find out there's no Sky Pixie..

Do you really think you are going to be there when people discover what comes after death? Why are you so preoccupied with seeing others in pain?

i suspect it's because roving gangs of mormons and catholics used to mock him because of his tiny penis.

 

[logical4u]

Yeah apparently if religious institutions don't get special treatment it's an infringement of their First Amendment right. They're not entitled to government money and if they want it they (should) have to play by the same rules as everyone else.

What government money? You mean medicare and medicaid that pay below regular rates? The government would go broke even faster without these hospitals. Further, the healthcare network depends on these hospitals to provide quality care for the communities they serve. There is definitely a first amendment right being violated by Obama. All religions are offended, not just Catholics.

Please educate yourself.

Catholic church takes Federal money for soup kitchens, homeless shelters, and parochial schools. In 2009, they took $100 million in Federal money for disaster relief.

What were those services "worth"?

 

[logical4u]

According to the new plan, religious affiliated hospitals and universities will not be required to list contraception in their health plans or pay for it for their employees. Instead, the burden will fall on insurance companies, which will be mandated to provide contraception coverage to employees of abstaining institutions at no additional premium.

Does not sound like he caved to me. You right wingers are hateful idiots. If he had caved, the bishops would have been happy. They are not.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/02/contraception-compromise-doesnt-please-bishops/

He did not cave. He is a dictator. When he issued a mandate to the church and it came up during an election year, he issued a new "mandate" (no congressional approval there) to insurance companies. He does not have the authority to do this. If you let it slide the next President will feel free to act as a dictator also. Will you object when inner city school children are rounded up for sterilization, "mandated" by the health secretary? If it is okay in one instance, it will be okay in other instances. There goes your liberty.

 

[Synthaholic]

The church runs "charities". It is a business like endevor, they use budgets (unlike the dems), planning and management to keep it running smoothly. Are you really, really suggesting that all the Christian charities just stop? And the left is always telling conservatives how they really care about the poor. The reaction to the church on this is very telling to exactly how the left FEELS about the poor.

They run non-profit organizations. They are free to do so but they are not free to have special rules, IMO.

They could meet their charitable "mandates" by having the priests hand out clothing and food to the poor.

They run charities which the government requires them to register as non profit business organizations. That does not give the government the power to take away their right for them to exercise their religion.

Which isn't happening.

 

[Synthaholic]

Did he say free? I thought he said with no copay. Do you have the same objections to the other things that insurances must offer without copay?

And if so, why? If you must have insurance to receive decent medical care why is it wrong to make insurance companies cover preventative care without copay?

Obama said free, which proves he is an idiot, and proves you shouldn't be discussing this since you don't know what is going on.

Whoops...Ravioli needs to learn to pay attention...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxZwAoZ7IbY]President Obama Speaks on Contraception and Religious Institutions - YouTube[/ame]

I pay insurance premiums every month. So whether there is a co-pay or not only determines if I pay twice.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Have you ever worked a job where the full parameters of everything that was going to happen to you was set down in the orientation? I haven't. Usually, it's how many things they lied to me about.

If those people go to Congress and say,"Hey, we think that insurance plans SHOULD include coverage for X", then Congress has the power to regulate that.

I never had a job where they lied to me in the orientation. If I ever found a company that did that I would leave that instant, but I understand the concept of choice.

I understand the concept of fairness.

Too bad you don't....

If someone lied to you in the orientation, and you kept working for the company, you don't understand anything.

By the way, life isn't fair, whinging about it is stupid.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The first thing you need to know is that bishops don’t get a veto. Given the hyperbolic rhetoric now spewing from the likes of Boehner, Gingrich and Santorum, you could be forgiven for believing that churches have constitutional protections. They don’t. If anything they are disfavored in constitutional law.

Cornell University Law School, in its well-regarded annotation of the US Constitution tells us that the Supreme Court unanimously found in Everson v. Board of Education, “that the Establishment Clause forbids not only practices that ‘aid one religion’ or ‘prefer one religion over another,’ but as well those that ‘aid all religions.’”

What about the First Amendment you say? The Bill of Rights (and its ten amendments) applies only to individuals, not denominations. Again, this is not an opinion, it is settled constitutional law. According to The Freedom Forum (which underwrites Vanderbilt’s First Amendment Center), “The First Amendment affirms the freedom of the individual.” Further, the Supreme Court itself recently reaffirmed in the Heller decision that the Second Amendment was an “individual right.” The Bill of Rights protects only to the rights of individuals (as was the expressed intent of its writers back in 1791.) They have not, so far, conveyed Citizens United style rights to churches.

So how does this translate regarding today’s issue du jour? When John Boehner says Congress will pass a law to confer veto power to religion, he is showing how little he cares about our founding documents. “Congress shall make no law” is pretty darn clear.

US Constitution: The Bishops Don

Of course! I remember being convinced of this point about the bill of rights during a gun control discussion. The Bill of Rights IS about individual rights.

Bravo, Valerie, bravo!

Then you agree that a Catholic employer, even if he runs a regular business, has a right not to provide birth control of it offends his religion.

Bravo!

 

[Synthaholic]

According to the new plan, religious affiliated hospitals and universities will not be required to list contraception in their health plans or pay for it for their employees. Instead, the burden will fall on insurance companies, which will be mandated to provide contraception coverage to employees of abstaining institutions at no additional premium.

Does not sound like he caved to me. You right wingers are hateful idiots. If he had caved, the bishops would have been happy. They are not.

Contraception Compromise Doesn’t Please Bishops - ABC News

They are not happy because they don't want ANYONE to have contraceptive coverage.

Who's Zoomin' Who? Moving on From "Religious Freedom" Diversion, USCCB Wants to Exempt All Employers From Birth Control Mandate | RH Reality Check

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It is my understanding that the mandates only cover for profit insurers and not companies that self insure but if you have a link to evidence to the contrary I'll take a look at it.

It is my understanding that the mandate for birth control is not the same thing as the Obamacare mandate that requires everyone to buy insurance that meets certain minimum standards which actually includes the mandate for birth control. If you have a link that proves otherwise feel free to post it, otherwise I will assume that the law is the law.

The mandate for birth control, like the mandates for coverage of other preventative health care, are part of Obamacare.

So you have no link stating that the self-insurers are part of the mandate? I actually looked for one but I could find nothing stating that rule had changed.

The only way self insurance will work is if it imposes lifetime caps on coverage, refuses to treat preexisting conditions, and does all the other things you hate. Like I said, that is true now, but it will soon change.

Regardless, the issue is not those who self insure here, it is Obama forcing religious institutions to violate their moral positions.

 

[Synthaholic]

Only ones crying are the ones who find out there's no Sky Pixie..

Do you really think you are going to be there when people discover what comes after death? Why are you so preoccupied with seeing others in pain?

i suspect it's because roving gangs of mormons and catholics used to mock him because of his tiny penis.

The Catholic Priests, I can understand, but how would Mormons see his pee-pee?

 

[Rinata]

According to the new plan, religious affiliated hospitals and universities will not be required to list contraception in their health plans or pay for it for their employees. Instead, the burden will fall on insurance companies, which will be mandated to provide contraception coverage to employees of abstaining institutions at no additional premium.

Does not sound like he caved to me. You right wingers are hateful idiots. If he had caved, the bishops would have been happy. They are not.

Contraception Compromise Doesn’t Please Bishops - ABC News

keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night.

Get help.

 

[Synthaholic]

What government money? You mean medicare and medicaid that pay below regular rates? The government would go broke even faster without these hospitals. Further, the healthcare network depends on these hospitals to provide quality care for the communities they serve. There is definitely a first amendment right being violated by Obama. All religions are offended, not just Catholics.

Please educate yourself.

Catholic church takes Federal money for soup kitchens, homeless shelters, and parochial schools. In 2009, they took $100 million in Federal money for disaster relief.

What were those services "worth"?

I don't understand your point, and 'worth' is irrelevant.

Why does Catholic University accept Federal money?

 

[Rinata]

According to the new plan, religious affiliated hospitals and universities will not be required to list contraception in their health plans or pay for it for their employees. Instead, the burden will fall on insurance companies, which will be mandated to provide contraception coverage to employees of abstaining institutions at no additional premium.

Does not sound like he caved to me. You right wingers are hateful idiots. If he had caved, the bishops would have been happy. They are not.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/02/contraception-compromise-doesnt-please-bishops/

He did not cave. He is a dictator. When he issued a mandate to the church and it came up during an election year, he issued a new "mandate" (no congressional approval there) to insurance companies. He does not have the authority to do this. If you let it slide the next President will feel free to act as a dictator also. Will you object when inner city school children are rounded up for sterilization, "mandated" by the health secretary? If it is okay in one instance, it will be okay in other instances. There goes your liberty.

Just plain crap, sorry. Are you people all nuts???

 

[Quantum Windbag]

They run non-profit organizations. They are free to do so but they are not free to have special rules, IMO.

They could meet their charitable "mandates" by having the priests hand out clothing and food to the poor.

They run charities which the government requires them to register as non profit business organizations. That does not give the government the power to take away their right for them to exercise their religion.

Which isn't happening.

It is happening, you just like the result. Can't wait until somebody does something you don't like with the power you are giving the government, I will be here to laugh and remind you of when you thought it was a good idea.

 

[Rinata]

Only ones crying are the ones who find out there's no Sky Pixie..

Do you really think you are going to be there when people discover what comes after death? Why are you so preoccupied with seeing others in pain?

i suspect it's because roving gangs of mormons and catholics used to mock him because of his tiny penis.

What the hell?? Are you an obnoxious teenager??? Grow up.

 

[Synthaholic]

It is my understanding that the mandate for birth control is not the same thing as the Obamacare mandate that requires everyone to buy insurance that meets certain minimum standards which actually includes the mandate for birth control. If you have a link that proves otherwise feel free to post it, otherwise I will assume that the law is the law.

The mandate for birth control, like the mandates for coverage of other preventative health care, are part of Obamacare.

So you have no link stating that the self-insurers are part of the mandate? I actually looked for one but I could find nothing stating that rule had changed.

The only way self insurance will work is if it imposes lifetime caps on coverage, refuses to treat preexisting conditions, and does all the other things you hate. Like I said, that is true now, but it will soon change.

Regardless, the issue is not those who self insure here, it is Obama forcing religious institutions to violate their moral positions.

Which isn't happening.

 

[Synthaholic]

They run charities which the government requires them to register as non profit business organizations. That does not give the government the power to take away their right for them to exercise their religion.

Which isn't happening.

It is happening, you just like the result. Can't wait until somebody does something you don't like with the power you are giving the government, I will be here to laugh and remind you of when you thought it was a good idea.

It isn't happening. If it was, you would show how.