obama caves again

[saveliberty]

I was kind of fond of the obeisty chart Joe supplied. The US is way out front. That seemed to go right over our village idiot's head.

 

[logical4u]

If someone lied to you in the orientation, and you kept working for the company, you don't understand anything.

By the way, life isn't fair, whinging about it is stupid.

So by your logic, hypothetical situation. Your boss calls you into the office tomorrow and says, "I just found out you post on the internet as a rightwinger. I hate Republicans. you're fired."

Then every time a new perspective employer calls her for a reference, she says you were lazy and kind of useless and that's why she had to fire you. Totally untrue, but hey, she's vindictive.

So that would be totally okay by you? Just asking?

The problem here is that becaue we dont have universal healthcare like any civilized country, and a private healthcare system for everyone would never work, we have this retarded system where employers are providing health care instead of salary.

If they merely paid you a bag of money and told you to find your own insurance, the system would collapse. The Older folks could never find an affordable policy and younger folks would buy the most cut-rate thing they could.

That's really the crux of the matter here. An employer using an ability they probalby shouldn't have to enforce conduct that have nothing to with work on people.

The "gov't" is the one that started the insurance thing. A history lesson: when the gov't started using income tax to punish achievers by taxing them at a higher rate for the same services, the employer found ways around "taxable income". It was a way to beat the system, since the medical insurance could not be "calculated" based off the price versus what the employee actually used. There were also some other "perks": company car, bonuses, vacations, etc were all used to reward employees without uncle Sam biting them every time they were rewarded.
The "gov't" is again moving into a system that operated in spite of gov't interferance, and will in all likelyhood bankrupt the system and run it as inefficiently as it runs the DMV.
But the people that refuse to buy their own insurance or take a job that tracks their income and pays medical insurance want everyone else punished again.

Leftists/libs/progressives/socialists/communists/homosexual activists/islamic extremists/environmentalists (choose one, they all act the same) are all about punishing and destruction of what others have (ENVY) over building and using resources wisely.

 

[JoeB131]

No, I am saying insurance shouldn't cover stuff that can be paid for out of pocket.

Fact is, the current system delivers the highest standard of care in the world. Your problem with it is you want it to be fair, a goal which is impossible.

No, our system is horrible and broken.

Lowest life expectency in the industrialized world.
Highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world.
63% of bankruptcies linked to medical expenses. 75% of those people had insurance.
46 million uninsured and 26 million underinsured.

But some douchebags are getting rich, so the Romney Wing of the GOP thinks the problems don't exist.

Dying is for the little people, I guess.

Funny how you complain about the health care system and then throw out statistics that have nothing to do with health care. Is there a reason for that?

Umm, all those stats have to do with health care, and it shows how horrible our system is.

But, hey, rich douchebags are making money, the Catholic Church gets to push women around, and all is right in your world...

 

[saveliberty]

Umm, all those stats have to do with health care, and it shows how horrible our system is.

But, hey, rich douchebags are making money, the Catholic Church gets to push women around, and all is right in your world...

So how did we end up with your sorry ass?

 

[JoeB131]

I was kind of fond of the obeisty chart Joe supplied. The US is way out front. That seemed to go right over our village idiot's head.

Well, true, those other countries are actually treating Obesity as a medical issue. Which is part of the reason why their stats are lower.

But, yeah, pretend it has nothing to do with the fact that 1 out of four don't have insurance, or don't have adequate insurance.

 

[JoeB131]

The "gov't" is the one that started the insurance thing. A history lesson: when the gov't started using income tax to punish achievers by taxing them at a higher rate for the same services, the employer found ways around "taxable income". It was a way to beat the system, since the medical insurance could not be "calculated" based off the price versus what the employee actually used. There were also some other "perks": company car, bonuses, vacations, etc were all used to reward employees without uncle Sam biting them every time they were rewarded.
The "gov't" is again moving into a system that operated in spite of gov't interferance, and will in all likelyhood bankrupt the system and run it as inefficiently as it runs the DMV.
But the people that refuse to buy their own insurance or take a job that tracks their income and pays medical insurance want everyone else punished again.

Leftists/libs/progressives/socialists/communists/homosexual activists/islamic extremists/environmentalists (choose one, they all act the same) are all about punishing and destruction of what others have (ENVY) over building and using resources wisely.

The government isn't bankrupting the system. What's bankrupting the system is that medical inflation is three times regular inflation. that has little to do with the government. Add to that an aging population and working class wages that have been flat for the last 30 years, and that's your underlying problem.

And your diatribe about homosexuals is just silly.

I don't think ObamaCare/RomneyCare is necessarily the best answer, but it isn't like the GOP is coming up with anything better at this point.

 

[saveliberty]

I was kind of fond of the obeisty chart Joe supplied. The US is way out front. That seemed to go right over our village idiot's head.

Well, true, those other countries are actually treating Obesity as a medical issue. Which is part of the reason why their stats are lower.

But, yeah, pretend it has nothing to do with the fact that 1 out of four don't have insurance, or don't have adequate insurance.

Hope your sitting down. HEALTHY people rarely need health services. We pour more money into end of life situations. Might want to think about that.

 

[JoeB131]

]Thought i'd highlight where you fail right off the bat asswipe.

Limbaugh is a class A hypocrite.

He was all for throwing the drug addict in prison for long periods of time. Until he became one.

Now, at least he doesn't talk about the subject anymore...

 

[saveliberty]

]Thought i'd highlight where you fail right off the bat asswipe.

Limbaugh is a class A hypocrite.

He was all for throwing the drug addict in prison for long periods of time. Until he became one.

Now, at least he doesn't talk about the subject anymore...

Why do you listen? I don't. Seems like you spend a lot of time telling others what to think and do. Sort of like Rush huh?

 

[JoeB131]

I was kind of fond of the obeisty chart Joe supplied. The US is way out front. That seemed to go right over our village idiot's head.

Well, true, those other countries are actually treating Obesity as a medical issue. Which is part of the reason why their stats are lower.

But, yeah, pretend it has nothing to do with the fact that 1 out of four don't have insurance, or don't have adequate insurance.

Hope your sitting down. HEALTHY people rarely need health services. We pour more money into end of life situations. Might want to think about that.

Quite right. Which is why the current system fails.

young people don't need insurance, older people do.

So a system based on managing risk would never insure old people. It would, in fact, actively encourage employers NOT to hire older workers.

Meanwhile, the cost of taking care of the "end of life" folks falls to- you guessed it- the government.

But how does LACK of insurance run up costs.

Person A has insurance. He gets brochitis, he sees his doctor, and gets anti-biotics- Total cost $200.00. If he has good insurance, he maybe pays $20.00.

Person B doesn't have insurance. He gets bronchitis, hopes it goes away. It turns into full blown pneumonia and he has to go to an emergency room. (Damn those poor people, refusing to die and reduce the surplus population!) He gets treated at a cost of about $2000.00. He blows off that bill and the hospital ends up checking it up to "uncompensated expenses". This is part of the reason why medical inflation is running out of control.

This isn't a right/left issue. It's an issue of efficiencies. But a lot of people get rich off the current system. Go to a hospital with all the fancy landscaping around it... and know someone paid for that.

 

[JoeB131]

]Thought i'd highlight where you fail right off the bat asswipe.

Limbaugh is a class A hypocrite.

He was all for throwing the drug addict in prison for long periods of time. Until he became one.

Now, at least he doesn't talk about the subject anymore...

Why do you listen? I don't. Seems like you spend a lot of time telling others what to think and do. Sort of like Rush huh?

Oh, I don't tell anyone what to think, I just tell them why they are wrong...

Thinking is something you have to kind of do on your own... and the first step is to weigh what is being told to you.

 

[Liability]

]Thought i'd highlight where you fail right off the bat asswipe.

Limbaugh is a class A hypocrite.

He was all for throwing the drug addict in prison for long periods of time. Until he became one.

Now, at least he doesn't talk about the subject anymore...

Wrong. There's nothing hypocritical about getting addicted to pain medication that has been prescribed for actual (significant) pain -- even while you preach the virtues of avoiding drug abuse.

In the case of folks who take up "recreational" chemicals for fun, they bring the shit down upon their own heads.

But it's silly to equate that kind of behavior with actual medical treatment for pain due to injury or other malady and having that treatment become (accidentally) a drug addiction.

It is petty to take a swipe at him over that problem when your real agenda is that you simply dislike his politics.

 

[JoeB131]

Wrong. There's nothing hypocritical about getting addicted to pain medication that has been prescribed for actual (significant) pain -- even while you preach the virtues of avoiding drug abuse.

In the case of folks who take up "recreational" chemicals for fun, they bring the shit down upon their own heads.

But it's silly to equate that kind of behavior with actual medical treatment for pain due to injury or other malady and having that treatment become (accidentally) a drug addiction.

It is petty to take a swipe at him over that problem when your real agenda is that you simply dislike his politics.

Come on, Limbaugh was having his housekeeper score Vicodin for him. This wasn't an issue of medical use anymore. He went into court and copped a plea.

Actually, I agree with Limbaugh about 70% of the time. Doesn't make him any less of a hypocrite.

I don't have a problem with the fact he got addicted and was out of control. It happens to people.

I have a problem is that he doesn't now say, "You know, we need to stop treating drugs as a criminal problem and treat it like a medical problem."

But too many people are getting rich putting people in prison.

 

[saveliberty]

People taking illegal drugs are criminals. Name one good point to meth.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No, our system is horrible and broken.

Lowest life expectency in the industrialized world.
Highest infant mortality rate in the industrialized world.
63% of bankruptcies linked to medical expenses. 75% of those people had insurance.
46 million uninsured and 26 million underinsured.

But some douchebags are getting rich, so the Romney Wing of the GOP thinks the problems don't exist.

Dying is for the little people, I guess.

Funny how you complain about the health care system and then throw out statistics that have nothing to do with health care. Is there a reason for that?

Umm, all those stats have to do with health care, and it shows how horrible our system is.

But, hey, rich douchebags are making money, the Catholic Church gets to push women around, and all is right in your world...

Life expectancy in the US is more a function of the lifestyle, murder rate, and the fact that Americans are more likely to die from an accident than other countries. Blaming that on health care is stupid, especially when studies have proven that, after a person gets sick, they live longer in the US than in any other industrialized country.

Infant mortality is more a function of reporting than health care. The US counts any birth where a baby takes a single breath as a live birth, some countries do not count live births until the baby has lived for an entire week. Doesn't sound like a health care problem to me.

Bankruptcies list debts, not causes, and a lot of people who have severe medical problems loose their jobs and choose bankruptcy to help them deal with the financial problems. My guess is their insurance covers the medical debts, but doesn't help with the bills. Ever hear of Aflac?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QBpzQ5ilNM]new Aflac pigeon comercial - YouTube[/ame]

The statistics about insurance have less than nothing to do with health care. A lot of those people choose not to buy insurance, and the poor people are covered by existing state programs. As for under insured, I don't have contraception coverage, that apparently makes me one of the under insured. Not sure why, if I ever get pregnant the last thing I will need to worry about is insurance, I will be famous, like Arnold.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6rjmxoakRE]Junior Theatrical Trailer - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Limbaugh is a class A hypocrite.

He was all for throwing the drug addict in prison for long periods of time. Until he became one.

Now, at least he doesn't talk about the subject anymore...

Why do you listen? I don't. Seems like you spend a lot of time telling others what to think and do. Sort of like Rush huh?

Oh, I don't tell anyone what to think, I just tell them why they are wrong...

Thinking is something you have to kind of do on your own... and the first step is to weigh what is being told to you.

I haven't seen you tell anyone why they are wrong, you spend too much time making a fool of yourself.

 

[JoeB131]

People taking illegal drugs are criminals. Name one good point to meth.

No, they have an illness and should be treated medically.

Come on, the rest of the world doesn't do this.

We lock up 2 million people. Germany only locks up 78,000. guess which country has higher crime rates?

The lock 'em up shit doesn't work.

 

[JoeB131]

Life expectancy in the US is more a function of the lifestyle, murder rate, and the fact that Americans are more likely to die from an accident than other countries. Blaming that on health care is stupid, especially when studies have proven that, after a person gets sick, they live longer in the US than in any other industrialized country.

Ahh, I was wondering how long it would take to get this golden oldie out.

Our accident rate isn't higher than any other industrialized country.


Death: Leading Causes of Death in Various Countries

Italy has just a high a car accident death rate and Japan has a higher suicide rate than we do...

 

[saveliberty]

Life expectancy in the US is more a function of the lifestyle, murder rate, and the fact that Americans are more likely to die from an accident than other countries. Blaming that on health care is stupid, especially when studies have proven that, after a person gets sick, they live longer in the US than in any other industrialized country.

Ahh, I was wondering how long it would take to get this golden oldie out.

Our accident rate isn't higher than any other industrialized country.


Death: Leading Causes of Death in Various Countries

Italy has just a high a car accident death rate and Japan has a higher suicide rate than we do...

Note the commas in between THREE concepts. It is a cummulative effect, not individual.

 

[sealybobo]

For a socialist, Obama sure has caved into the capitalists an awful lot.

This is proof no matter how good Obama is, the GOP will never admit it. If he fights them, he's a socialist. If he works with them, he caved.